Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

Sgreadan

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Hi Fellas,
I've got my hands on 500 Winchester Olin .30 cal bullets. They look pretty old and don't appear in their current catalog. I've also emailed Olin about them, but no reply. So, I was hoping one of you out there may know something about them. They are marked on the box as "30CAL .308 DIA. 180 GR. FULL METAL CASE MATCH" and there is an item number "3018MC". I'd really like to know their B.C., and if someone has used them, were they any good?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Jon
 

bohem

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

They're junk... mail 'em to me for proper disposal.



Can you take a picture of them? There's some guys on here that can spot a bullet spec just from a photo, you might surprised what you find out.
 

Grump

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

From reports and old boxes I've personally received/seen from the old timers, sounds like you have some late '50s/through the end of the '60s vintage bullets once popular for 600 yards and beyond in the .30-06 over the course and LR competitions.

I would not be surprised if the profile closely matches the Sierra 180-grain Matchking. It was originally made FMJ, but they switched to HPBT after the 168-gr Matchking (originally "International" or something similar was in the name) proved to be so superior to everything else then in production.

Waiting to see a pic...
 

Hummer

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

Back in the 50s and into the 60s Winchester loaded 30.06 Match ammo. Actually that is wrong, they were HANDLLOADED. They were available at Perry for guys to shoot long range with rather than the issue match. I remember Sam Bond selling it on Commercial Row and I remember a conversation I heard him tell a guy he planned on shooting it in the Wimbledon. I have several boxes of it somewhere. Says handloaded on the box. It had a following because FA did not manufacture MATCH ammo until 59 if my memory is correct.
 

Sgreadan

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

Thanks guys I knew there'd be some out there who'd come across these before. As requested heres a picture. I don't usually load full metal, so don't get to see the bases of the bullets very often. I have seen the bases of a few FMJ over the years mind, and the neatness of these impressed me. May be I'm just easily pleased
smile.gif
.

Love to know the B.C.

STP60984.jpg


STP60983.jpg
 

ChrisGarrett

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

They do look well finished.

Like the guy above said, just use the B.C. from the 180gr SMK and go from there. You're going to fine tune B.C. number, yourself, on the range anyhow.

New 180gr SMK:

.475 @ 2800 fps and above
.496 between 2800 and 2200 fps
.494 between 2200 and 1600 fps
.494 @ 1600 fps and below

Chris
 

Hummer

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

I forgot to add the Winchester Hand Loaded ammo was also made in 300 H&H Mag. The match bullet guru at Winchester for years was Herman Bockstruck but unfortunately he died early from cancer.
He also designed the 168 Flat Base Match bullet and the 190 Winchester Match bullet which won the Palma Trophy Match two consecutive years after they ceased production of it. I have about eight boxes of 190s left and saving them for special occasions as they were excellent.

Also these were loaded with mercuric primers which does bad things to brass reportedly. I reloaded some of these cases and never had any problem but the warning is still out there.
 

Grump

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

Wow, Hummer, you're bringing back memories of stuff I read from my Dad's back issues of the Rifleman years ago.

I had forgotten about the reluctance to fully switch to lead styphanate primers among the big-bore shooters. But I believe you are remembering the 1920s-30s-era on the mercuric issue. It was the regular non-mercuric but corrosive (chlorate-based) primers that were lingering on the firing lines of Camp Perry and elsewhere in the 1950s and early 1960s. Of interest to Magnum primer fans, the chlorate primers were significantly hotter in ignition characteristics...

Between what my Dad and several others have reported, much WWII AP .30-06 ammo was remarkably accurate and various rifle teams were eager to snatch up any lots that were any good. I've often wondered if THAT bullet provided part of the inspiration for the 168-gr "International" that started the ball rolling with HPBT designs. Thus, I wonder if the 168-gr flatbase you mention was the first bullet developed based on the good results of the 168-gr .30-06 AP bullet.

Phil Sharpe made a convincing case for AP ruining good barrels, but I wonder if his test was flawed or a fluke or used bad AP bullets...
 

Sgreadan

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

Thanks for your input fellas. Much appreciated. The range of experience of the collective on here never ceases to amaze me.

I'll run the figures as Sierra to start and see where to go from there.

Thanks again.

Cheers
Jon
 

Hummer

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Re: Old .30cal Winchester Bullets. Info wanted.

Grump, If I don't forget I will dig out a box of each and scan them. It is the yellow/blue boxes from the 50s. Larry Moore told me to pull them down and ease out the primers and reseat new ones.
I am 99% sure the box says Mercuric Priming but won't know for sure till I pull it.
Sierra made some 180 FMJBT with open base prior to the reverse draws seen now. I still have about five boxes of them. They are not particularly accurate but as Larry Moore once remarked the targets they shot in the 50s and 60s were not very discriminating and didn't require sub MOA accuracy to get perfect scores.
If I remember correctly the 168s were designed for 300 Meter Olympic style shooting.