opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wyomauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the M-14 is just cool and has much more class.</div></div>

Well said, Well said.

I might add...It doesn't jam up when you work around saltwater, mud, and sand either.

ARs IME just are too finicky and you better make sure they are real clean if you are betting your life on one. For match shooting, I cannot deny, they have taken the lead.
 
Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sheepfever, have I got a story for you.
I purchased a springfield M1A loaded in 2008.
Great rifle as is it.
I wanted to make it a long range tactical gas gun.
I bought a Troy battle rail for scope mounting,= $300.00
USO 1.8-10 atop, = $2000.00
Archangel fitted stock = $150.00
hundreds of rounds and several frustrated range sessions later with various handloads, factory, everything I could find that people said was the best load.
I have never been able to get more than 1.5" group.
Also, the rifle now weighs 16+ pounds, it is not handy or quick and shoots half as well as my bolt .308.
I am now in process of returning rifle to original factory specs and keeping it as a classic rifle for nostalgia.
No matter what you do it, you wont get OBR or LMT AR-10 type handling or accuracy imo.
I am now saving up for an LMT .308.
Hope this helps.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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You can pretty much disregard this post. I challenge the ability of the shooter when you drop 2k on a scope, and $300 to mount said scope, then purchase a $150 crapolymer stock. Then wonder why it won't shoot. What did you think it would do? And any handloader worth his salt knows that what the rest of the world says is "magic" may just run like dookie through your 5k+ rig. The M1A can be a finicky little thing on ammunition. It does take time and very consistent loading to tailor a load on certain rifles.
 
Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Amen Scouter19D.

A $300 mount that puts the scope extra high and is known to shoot loose, and a crappy copy of a stock that doesn't fit right, bad news all around.

$500 would have got a Bassett mount, oversize wood stock, bedding job and cheek riser... and a better shooting rifle

My setup in a Sage with a USO 1.8-10x will do 1.5" with surplus ammo and me not being the best shot.
 
Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: opshin556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sheepfever, have I got a story for you.
I purchased a springfield M1A loaded in 2008.
Great rifle as is it.
I wanted to make it a long range tactical gas gun.
I bought a Troy battle rail for scope mounting,= $300.00
USO 1.8-10 atop, = $2000.00
Archangel fitted stock = $150.00
hundreds of rounds and several frustrated range sessions later with various handloads, factory, everything I could find that people said was the best load.
I have never been able to get more than 1.5" group.
Also, the rifle now weighs 16+ pounds, it is not handy or quick and shoots half as well as my bolt .308.
I am now in process of returning rifle to original factory specs and keeping it as a classic rifle for nostalgia.
No matter what you do it, you wont get OBR or LMT AR-10 type handling or accuracy imo.
I am now saving up for an LMT .308.
Hope this helps.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
</div></div>

I had a similar experience. I bought an SA NM years ago, that shot alright. I wanted to sass it up a bit and make it more accurate. A new Mc Millan stock, Smith Enterprises rings and mount and topped it with a Leupold 3.5-10x. It shot worse. I spent many hours trying to develop a load and used the "tried and true" loads to no avail. It seems some guys have really accurate M1A's and some don't. I'm always a bit jealous when guys post nice M1A groups. If you want to shoot for ease and accuracy the AR platform would be the way to go. I wouldn't try to force the M1A into a niche it may not want to go. Good luck.
 
Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

To the OP, I hear your dilemma. In 1979, the M1A came standard, national match (standard with NM sights, bedded and tuned), and super match (NM stuff with heavy barrel and max dimension stock). I bought a NM, to get a more accurate standard weight M1A, in case I had to carry it cross country.

In 1989, I started shooting high power with it and won the marksman class at the Texas State Rifle Association service rifle championship, shooting in my sixth match with Hornady 168 grain match handloads.

Unfortunately, work and family kept me from shooting more than zero, once, or twice a year thereafter. Then, we got kicked off of Camp Bullis after 9/11/2001. My eyes got older, and I couldn't focus on the front sight and the target across the course.

So, same dilemma, try to scope it, with a non walnut stock, or go with an AR platform with a scope. I have an M1 parts rifle with a commercial 308 barrel, a pretty commercial stock, several NM parts, and a receiver that was produced within a day of my birthday in the spring of 1945. The M1 front sight is farther out there than the M1A or AR iron front sight, and I can still see to shoot it at 200 and 300 yards.

I decided to keep the M1 (til I die) and sell the M1A to someone who wanted it for what it was. I am building up an AR Mark 12'ish flattop scoped rifle. If I had someone else close to me (brother, son, grandson) where we might both want to be shooting at the same time, I would get a second AR platform in 308. I have an SS 5R 308 bolt rifle for shooting farther than my Mark 12 will be useful. It doesn't pitch the brass into the underbrush.

If my M1A were my only walnut stocked battle rifle, and my resources would allow, I'd hang onto it for what it is and represents and get an AR. If my budget wouldn't allow it and an AR rifle in the same cabinet, I'd sell the M1A and get an AR. What the others have said. Easier to care for and shoot. If you get one with a decent thickness barrel, perhaps fluted, heat issues should be minimized.

But, like the others have said, a personal decision based on personal situation and desires.

I wish you satisfaction with your choice.
 
Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Very well said SouthTexasHill.. that was very eloqoently said. Not like that idiot Cartmann, who seems to know how to Piss people off with his words. I swear that guys always makes new enemies everyday.. when he should be making friends. Friends like those cool guys in Vegas that shoot off hand through tiny ports in make believe barricades where the Target is directly in front of the port.
 
Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform



The M1A/M14, to perform accurately, must be expertly tuned by a trained gunsmith, while the AR, to perform accurately, may simply be assembled by the novice shooter or smith if he gets it all lined up properly. By luck or skill, the AR may then shoot well. Not too much unlike the modern bolt action rifle, the M1A/M14's action seats into a one-piece stock not alowing for free-floating of the barrel, uses an operating rod to transmit gas power to the action, and the one-piece bolt finds its way among its mating surfaces.

Commission a competent M1A/M14 gunsmith specializing in accurizing this rifle design. Then, and only then, will you be reasonably assured of a good shooting M1A/M14. This rifle was designed to be, and remains, a reliable battle field weapon of destruction. This rifle proved to be a reliable battle field weapon, therefore, this rifle is neither experimental nor theoretical. Historically, it worked, and with special accurizing techniques, this rifle may shoot well though the primary purpose for this rifle is a "battle-reliable rifle", not a precision-
reliable rifle, unless fine tuned to be one. Still, the trick to an accurized one to shoot well is THE AMMO. The ammo must be M1A/M14 intended. (see;e.g.; <span style="text-decoration: underline">Zediker</span>, Loading for the M14.)

Earlier in its evolution to develop into our current configurations, AR designs were unreliable. This was due to closer tolerances of parts fitment, and a more complex design, generally, at that time. When parts and spaces become smaller in guns cleanliness is next to Godliness. Comparing parts of these two platforms readily clear is that the older design's parts are larger, looser, fewer, allowing space for gunk and battlefield dirt a place to go, the alternative being little tolerance of space and junk, and consequently, failure to fire ultimately. Recall the fluted chambers of some HK semi-automatic and other rifles. The fluting isn't just to make groovey brass.

The AR designs do not rely on an action seating into a stock. Instead, the several-piece bolt/carrier assembly is contained within four bearing surfaces of its upper reciever allowing for a possibly more consistent breach lock-up than the older rifle design, the forearm allows for an accuracy inducing free-floated barrel, and no operating rod is used. Bore gas is directed directly into the bolt/carrier group via a gas tube which must be aligned with the carrier key unless mis-alignment of the gas tube strikes a carrier key edge and causes bolt mis-alignment with the bore.

These two firearm designs are distinctly different, concieved and constructed in different times and with different expectations. Ar's were designed to be more accurate than their predecessors. That's why they are more accurate. Fewer M1A/M14's among shooters mean fewer gunsmiths expert at accurizing them and hence the fees of the few who work on them is higher. Not just anyone can assemble an AR and make it shoot right, but a lot fewer can assemble, and then accurize, an M1/M14, and make it shoot right.

These two designs were never meant to compete with the other. The older gun is a professional shooter's firearm for the most part, but even a good shooting AR can be challenging for the novice shooter to fire accurately. I believe an AR will fail to fire more frequently, and break sooner, than the older designed weapon. But off the rack rifles of either design? These two pieces of fruit are not of the same species. One is a banana. The other is a pineapple. They're both good, but with different expectations, purposes and results.

Consider keeping the M1/A for a reliable defense weapon and acquiring an AR for precision shooting once the marksman's abilities exceed the performance of the former firearm. Not much of this sport is about economy of resources. Its all expensive. Also, I've been enjoying thinning the neighborhood pest population with an air rifle. Air rifle shooting is good practice requiring neither an afternoon at the distant firing range nor expensive ammunition and optics. And if you think they're cheap, check out a Daystate or similar Eastern manufactured air rifle. Air pistols are valuable training tools as well. My point is heavy recoiling, noisy, dangerous if not handled carefully big bore firearms are not necessary to the health and happiness of our male egos.

Consider too selling your rifle to an M1A/M14 smith or collector who has the need or desire for your particular rifle and proceed post-haste with acquiring a quality, tuned AR that will provide much shooting enjoyment for as distant as any non-professional marksman wants to shoot.

Enjoy this old video.

http://youtu.be/0acTn0Cvs4s
 
Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Casey, this is an excellent explination. As a M14 lover, I thought you represented both rifles well. Personally, I despise the AR platform, but am going to it due to obvious reasons. Of course I also love 1911s and hate Glocks, but guess what I carry everyday--Glock.

I suppose, as you said, it really is an apples and oranges discussion (or whatever fruit you used). I am not selling my M1A to buy the AR10, but just adding the AR....it is nice to have both, serving different purposes.

There is no question in my mind that the best "do it all rifle" on the planet in an AR10