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OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

I have no idea what county it was. I'm pretty sure it was in Anniston. A buddy of mine tried to borrow 100 bucks from me to take a girl in the back room. I was not nice enough to lend him the cash.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

You can get it refied with a huge reduction if you show the bank your loss of income, then rent it. You have to contact your bank and let them know whats going on. A buddy of mine just cut his payment damn near in half without any harm to his credit. After hearing his success with Bank of America I would give that a shot.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

I tried that, they told me to Short Sale....

Fucked up, I aasked if there was anything I could do to lower my payment a little to help me keep it, and they said Short Sale... Kinda weird.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

Now I believe in being responsible as much as anyone, but the "moral" stigma has got to go. Many hard working people are currently screwed by the same folks that they owe mortages to.

I'm in construction, and jobsites all ove my AO are still growing weeds on them because the banks won't lend to developers. After they gave loans to anyone with a pulse using predatory lending practices they found their assets toxic, and their holdings worthless, and turned around and tightened credit on the people that could keep jobs going. Now I have no income, because money isn't moving, so I'm screwed.

I'd rather file BK on credit debt and keep the home (my attitude towards banks changed a little when <span style="font-weight: bold">one</span> payment that was paid on time online got posted late and the bank changed my interest from 8.5% to 28+%).

As far as SS goes, things may be changing, but around here banks are refusing to take market-appropriate offers and forclosing on people trying to work with them left and right (BofA included).

Fuck 'em.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

Sorry to rant in your thread J, my post really doesn't apply to your situation....
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

My situation is unique in that sure the job loss affected me, but didn't bury me. I can still pay my bills, but in a couple months when I relocate (part of which is to get back to an area where there is more money to be made), I'll be stuck with a house I can't sell b/c everyone in the market is only wanting to buy distressed property.

It's just a fucked up situation, my house is worth more than what we're asking, but I can't hardly get anyone to offer over $100k... Everyone's after the Foreclosure / SS...
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

If I could hit the rewind button on my life I would have stopped making my payments a year ago. I took a big pay cut at the beginning of the year. I had to dip into my savings every month to continue to make my monthly bills. Now 13 months later my savings is tapped and I still can't make my monthly bills. This entire time I have been looking for new work and trying to negotiate a mortgage reduction. I would have been better of having that money in savings along with all the house payments I've made over the last 13 months.

Newer houses are not appreciating. They are doing the opposite and will continue to do so for quite some time. I honestly believe we are going to see another bust in housing in the next year or two. It will be sometime shortly after the commercial bust that is on the horizon. My house was purchased for close to $600,000 5 years ago. My neighbors house is on the market for $400,000 and not selling. How long is it going to take for me to recoup the money I've already paid in plus make up the lost equity? How about never.

There was a pretty common trend for as long back as records were kept between median income and median housing. It wasn't until the late 90's that the gap really exploded apart. Median housing still has a long way to drop to reach that common trend.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you need to think about this first...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aIf_vUQZFt.s

Good luck to you. </div></div>

I read this. Thanks for the link as it confirms a lot of what I have been hearing and reading elswhere.

In many cases, the same cynical mindset is in play among short sellers that occured when they were "flipping" or "moving up" during the boom. I don't really care if their motivation to abrogate their mortgage commitment is because their home's current market value is below what they financed. Could we get away with this in a car loan?

I sympathise only with those who lost their income through no fault of their own. Gamblers can blow me.

I hate the gutless fucks in Banking, Insurance, Finance, etc., that go along with legislative agendae based on flimsly political engineering so long as their downside is covered by taxpayers. But I also hate the "Playa" mindset of people who bet far more than their mad money on schemes they can ill afford to repay if the wheels fall off.

I know this doesn't apply to JRoses's situation, but make no mistake that this rush to short sell or renegotiate mortgages has contributed to the decline in residential real estate value as much as the greed that fueled the glut of mcmansions that preceeded it.

It is hardly surprising to find the banks and other lenders would come after the people who thought they could just bug out of their mrotgage and be free: The taxpayers just provided the big institutions with 3/4 trillion dollars to make them whole. Anyone really think they were going to just shrug their shoulders and walk away from all that vig?
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

The SS / Foreclosure trend is killing me right now... How am I to compete when realtors bring people to my $250k house and I hear "they're only looking to spend $100k"?... Why did you come view a $200K+ house if all your looking to spend is $100k?
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

People next door to me bugged out of their place 5 months ago. There it sits still. They refied it at least twice over the last 7 years and then just walked away. The last mortgage was for $275.000.

The asking price for it now is $74,900.

I'm not looking to sell my house, and there are some very nice homes in my neighborhood, including the other home next door and those across the street, though mine is a work in progress. Nevertheless, the value of mine has fallen due to the irresponsibility or greed of my former neighbor; He still has his jet skis, boat and other toy's...

My propert taxes remain unchanged from the boom era however.

Guess the county still feels entitled to an undiminished pound of flesh.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in construction, and jobsites all ove my AO are still growing weeds on them because the banks won't lend to developers. After they gave loans to anyone with a pulse using predatory lending practices they found their assets toxic, and their holdings worthless, and turned around and tightened credit on the people that could keep jobs going. Now I have no income, because money isn't moving, so I'm screwed.</div></div>

This is exactly how it is all over. Even the people who want to step out and do something can't get financed.

Jason, I would rent your place out and wait to see if this market rights itself. Why give away your equity if you can stay right side up by renting it out? On the other end, rent a place and see what happens. Time can be your enemy, but in this case, you might be able to make it a friend.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MHill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There was a pretty common trend for as long back as records were kept between median income and median housing. It wasn't until the late 90's that the gap really exploded apart. Median housing still has a long way to drop to reach that common trend. </div></div>

EXACTLY, and lest anyone think this disaster was some sort of surprise, or that a "rebound" makes any logical sense, http://www.demographia.com/dhi2006.pdf
http://www.demographia.com/dhi2007.pdf

you can get the most recent stats too, but those illustrate this issue was being talked about.

Or let's read Jan '08 Business Week here http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_06/b4070040767516.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5

<span style="font-weight: bold">or take this personal e-mail sent to me in Feb '08 by a friend somewhere in financeland</span>
----------------------------------------------------------------
The DC/NoVa/MD conforming balance was just increased to 600K
San Fran/Los Ang/San Diego/San Jose/Anaheim – 729K
NY/NJ New York/New Jersey – 595K
Miami – 433K

This happens to be in areas where defaults are higher. This immediately catches my eye as being fishy. Part of the reason people can’t refinance into affordable loans is that their LTVs are too high and their loan amounts are too high for the current conforming limits. Part of this idea was to effectively produce more liquidity to help “less fortunate” people get into “affordable” loans. Now they can avoid the paydowns and premiums paid on jumbo loans, and get into more liquid agency loans.

Let’s use basic economics here. If we increase the conforming limit, then more loans will be slotted into Agency MBS, which increases the supply in the market. An increase in supply will put downward pressure on the price of these securities. A simple relationship exists in fixed income, price and yield are inversely related, so rates are going to increase and mortgage rates will increase. The increase in mortgage rates will suppress real estate and actually cause home prices to deteriorate even more, which is a current prediction of many economists (people on the street are saying another 15-24 percent depreciation over the next 18 months). The common person is unaware as to how much secondary markets affect mortgage rates, home prices, and loan liquidity (credit standards).

I think raising the conforming limits is a bad idea given the way they tend to do this. Prices are very inflated after years of hyper-appreciation. I’d like to reevaluate the price situation after the speculators and people that are set to default fall out of the situation, and then make a decision on altering the conforming balance limit. It is too premature at this point and can actually elevate the problem that we are currently facing. This legislation is an overreaction that is somewhat parallel to that of the behavior that got us here in the first place.
-------------------------------------------------------------

<span style="font-weight: bold">or let's look at another one, this one summer '08</span>
--------------------------------------------------------------
High vacancy rates are alarming! The number of vacant homes for sale in the US reached 2.3 million in 08Q1, which is an increase of 44 percent over the past two years. What’s more alarming is that this is a 20-year high with no cap in the near future. With an unprecedented volume of mortgages poised to reset in the latter part of this year and into 2009, it’s only natural to deduce the probable outcome… MORE INVENTORY!

Not to say I am joining the panic party, but several analysts are calling for a FURTHER drop of up to 30 percent, most notably in metropolitan areas.
-----------------------------------------------------------------


You all don't need to know the current banter, but you can get a good idea just by looking at the median income:home price, mate that with employment trends, search on commercial r/e forecasts for the next 18 mo, and also note that we only got hit by the subprime and early buyers. The people that bought interest only, negative amortizations, and ARMs in the peak aren't in trouble yet simply because their check hasn't come to the table yet. Given all that, what do you think prices will be in a year? The FED is still F-ing the market up by keeping rates artificially low, simply to delay the inevitable. When they do raise them, foreclosures will necessarily increase yet again, prices will slide as they always do, nobody wishing to sell will be able due to insufficient equity, and banks(rather the secondary marketeers) will be S-C-R-E-W-E-D. '08 was just a drill, a rumbling in the tummy. Even if the entire stimulus had been directed toward reducing mortgages as an actual payment to the balances, it would have been like pissing in a volcano.

Until prices are in the 2.5:1-3.5:1 range, you must know that we have not even hit reality, let alone an actual slump. Where I live, it's still a solid 5:1.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

What shits me is that they got the fuckn bailout money, not us the homeowner is loosing the value of the fuckn home in the first place and now they are coming after people who default and short sale too?

JRose, you have to miss a payment first to qualify yeah thats fd up and you can't have any liquid assets to qualify;)
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
animatch.gif
</div></div>+1
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

now thats funny. Even if your an honest person the thought still runs through your head.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff,

Bank of America has the loan.

</div></div>

If youi have equity in the house you are truly screwed.

If you do not, they may work wiht you to keep the house maintained until they find a buyer - have heard some obama program inspired that - saves the bank $$$ having to fix houses up.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

I still say stop paying on it, and just save that money. Its gonna be months of mortgage in your favor, and the delta to make up the loss from when u bought to the short sale is huge. Take your money, sit on that house, when you finally get your papers to move, take everything in it, including the kitchen sink and copper.

Just imagine how many new builds that is for you
wink.gif


People have to start thinking about their finances like businesses when they do business with big corporations.

Its tight here, we asked to see if the bank would work with us. They said no, you have to be 6 months behind. Amazing their logic behind that !

 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aren Wilson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
animatch.gif
</div></div>+1 </div></div>

man%20in%20prison%20behind%20bars%20jail.jpg
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

If you short sale your house - epect them to come after you for the rest of the funds - this just out:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Mortgage-lenders-pursue-cnnm-3107909798.html?x=0

<span style="font-weight: bold">
Mortgage lenders pursue homeowners even after foreclosure
Buzz up! 1120 Print
By Les Christie, staff writer , On Wednesday February 3, 2010, 8:18 am EST
As terrible as it is to lose your house to foreclosure, at least it's a relief to put your biggest financial headache behind you, right?

Wrong.

Former homeowners may still be on the hook if there's a difference between what they owed on their mortgage and what the bank could sell it for at auction. And these "deficiency judgments" are ticking time bombs that can explode years after borrowers lose their homes.

<span style="font-size: 23pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">It can even happen to people who got their bank to approve them selling their home for less than it is worth.</span> </span>

Vanessa Corey, for example, short sold her Fredericksburg, Va., home in April 2008. She and her husband built the house in 2004, but setbacks, both personal (divorce) and professional (housing bust), made it impossible for the real estate agent to keep her home. So she negotiated the short sale and thought that was the end of it.

"My understanding was that the deficiency was negotiated away," she said. "Then, last November, I got a letter from a lawyer telling me I owed my lender $65,000. I had to declare bankruptcy. There was no way I could pay it."

Many homeowners are now in the same boat. And not just those who took out bigger loans than they could afford or who did so called "liar loans" where they didn't have to verify their income.

Because of falling home prices, borrowers who always paid their mortgage but who have run into unforeseen circumstances -- like unemployment or a job transfer -- can no longer sell their homes for what they owe. As a result, they are being forced to short sell or foreclose and are getting caught up in deficiency judgments.

"After the banks foreclose, it's very common now to have large deficiencies with houses not worth the balances owed," said Don Lampe, a North Carolina real estate attorney.

Lenders mostly declined comment. Although Corey's lender, BB&T did indicate it was pursuing more deficiency judgments.

"They follow the rise and fall of foreclosures," said the spokeswoman, who would not discuss Corey's account.

Can they come after you?

Whether banks can and will pursue deficiency judgments depends on many factors, including what state the borrower lives in and whether there's a second mortgage or other liens. But if borrowers ignore the possibility of deficiencies, it could haunt them.

"Once they have a judgment, they can pursue you anywhere," said Richard Zaretsky, a board-certified real estate attorney in West Palm Beach, Fla. "They can ask for financial records, have your wages garnished and, if you fail to respond, a judge can put you in jail."

In the case of foreclosure, lenders can pursue deficiencies in more than 30 states, including Florida, New York and Texas, according to the U.S. Foreclosure Network, an organization of mortgage law firms.

Some states, such as California, are "non-recourse" and don't allow deficiency judgments. But, even there, if the if the original loan was refinanced, some or all of it may be subject to claims.

Deficiency judgments on short sales and deeds-in-lieu can happen in many more places. In these cases, extinguishing the debt is often a matter of negotiating with the bank.

But even when lenders are willing, many borrowers may not be aware that they have to ask for release. So, if you are pursuing a short sale, be sure your attorney asks the bank to release you from any further obligation.

"People shouldn't have a false sense of security that a deficiency judgment may not be later sought," Zaretsky said.

He expects many will be filed over the next few years, based on the fact that banks have sold many of these accounts to collection agencies and other third parties, at discount.

"The parties who bought those notes wouldn't have paid money for them unless they had the intention of acting," Zaretsky said.

Ticking time bomb

What can be scary is that the judgments don't have to be obtained immediately. Lenders or collection agencies may wait until debtors have recovered financially before they swoop in. In Florida, the bank can wait up to five years to file. Once the court grants a judgment, the lender has 20 years there to collect, with interest.

It doesn't have to be a large amount of debt for a lender or collection agency to come after borrowers. Richard Varno and his wife short sold their Nashville home back in 2004 after he lost his job.

It wasn't until 2008, when the second lien holder asked him for $25,000, that he realized he still was liable.

"I told them, 'Hey, you guys released the title,'" he said. "As far as I know, I'm off the hook."

He wasn't. Releasing title does not necessarily end the debt. It's complicated because of variations in state law, but, generally, a mortgage has two parts: a pledge of collateral, represented by the home, and a promise to pay off the loan.

Lenders may release property liens in order to facilitate short sales without releasing borrowers from their obligations to pay under the promissory notes. The secured debt can convert to an unsecured one after the sale.

Zaretsky had one client who was so relieved to have arranged a short sale that he signed every paper his real estate agent shoved at him, even a confession that clearly stated he still owed the debt.

"He had no idea what he was doing," said Zaretsky. "All the lender had to do was go to court to convert the confession into a deficiency judgment."

Lenders are also very inconsistent. One of Zaretsky's short-sale clients was ready, willing and able to pay, but the bank did not even ask; another lender always reserves the right to pursue the deficiency.

Strategic defaults

Sometimes lenders go after borrowers walking away from their homes if they have other assets, according to Florida real estate attorney Larry Tolchinsky.

"Banks are pulling credit reports to see if it's a strategic default," he said. "If you're behind on all your other payments, you're okay. But if you're not, they'll come after you."

If borrowers have any doubts about their risks, they should seek legal advice. Or, at least, call non-profit organizations such as NeighborWorks for advice. According to Doug Robinson, a NeighborWorks spokesman, its counselors always try to negotiate away deficiencies when they facilitate short sales or deeds-in-lieu.

"We don't favor any short-sale contracts that leave any deficiency that can be pursued," he said.

Robinson himself knows what can happen. He paid off a deficiency after his own New Jersey house went through foreclosure 11 years ago.


</span>
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...


In 2006, Benjamin Koellmann bought a condominium in Miami Beach. By his calculation, it will be about the year 2025 before he can sell his modest home for what he paid. Or maybe 2040.

"People like me are beginning to feel like suckers," Mr. Koellmann said. "Why not let it go in default and rent a better place for less?"

After three years of plunging real estate values, after the bailouts of the bankers and the revival of their million-dollar bonuses, after the Obama administration's loan modification plan raised the expectations of many but satisfied only a few, a large group of distressed homeowners is wondering the same thing.


More from NYTimes.com:

• When Legal Bills Become a Cause for Dispute

• Curveball Alters Talks on Wall Street Reform

• Huge Deficits May Alter U.S. Politics and Global Power


New research suggests that when a home's value falls below 75 percent of the amount owed on the mortgage, the owner starts to think hard about walking away, even if he or she has the money to keep paying.

In a situation without precedent in the modern era, millions of Americans are in this bleak position. Whether, or how, to help them is one of the biggest questions the Obama administration confronts as it seeks a housing policy that would contribute to the economic recovery.

"We haven't yet found a way of dealing with this that would, we think, be practical on a large scale," the assistant Treasury secretary for financial stability, Herbert M. Allison Jr., said in a recent briefing.

The number of Americans who owed more than their homes were worth was virtually nil when the real estate collapse began in mid-2006, but by the third quarter of 2009, an estimated 4.5 million homeowners had reached the critical threshold, with their home's value dropping below 75 percent of the mortgage balance.

They are stretched, aggrieved and restless. With figures released last week showing that the real estate market was stalling again, their numbers are now projected to climb to a peak of 5.1 million by June -- about 10 percent of all Americans with mortgages.

"We're now at the point of maximum vulnerability," said Sam Khater, a senior economist with First American CoreLogic, the firm that conducted the recent research. "People's emotional attachment to their property is melting into the air."

Suggestions that people would be wise to renege on their home loans are at least a couple of years old, but they are turning into a full-throated barrage. Bloggers were quick to note recently that landlords of an 11,000-unit residential complex in Manhattan showed no hesitation, or shame, in walking away from their deeply underwater investment.

"Since the beginning of December, I've advised 60 people to walk away," said Steve Walsh, a mortgage broker in Scottsdale, Ariz. "Everyone has lost hope. They don't qualify for modifications, and being on the hamster wheel of paying for a property that is not worth it gets so old."

Mr. Walsh is taking his own advice, recently defaulting on a rental property he owns. "The sun will come up tomorrow," he said.

The difference between letting your house go to foreclosure because you are out of money and purposefully defaulting on a mortgage to save money can be murky. But a growing body of research indicates that significant numbers of borrowers are declining to live under what some waggishly call "house arrest."

Using credit bureau data, consultants at Oliver Wyman calculated how many borrowers went straight from being current on their mortgage to default, rather than making spotty payments. They also weeded out owners having trouble paying other bills. Their estimate was that about 17 percent of owners defaulting in 2008, or 588,000 people, chose that option as a strategic calculation.

Some experts argue that walking away from mortgages is more discussed than done. People hate moving; their children attend the neighborhood school; they do not want to think of themselves as skipping out on a debt. Doubters cite a Federal Reserve study using historical data from Massachusetts that concludes there were relatively few walk-aways during the 1991 bust.

The United States Treasury falls into the skeptical camp.

"The overwhelming bulk of people who have negative equity stay in their homes and keep paying," said Michael S. Barr, assistant Treasury secretary for financial institutions.

It would cost about $745 billion, slightly more than the size of the original 2008 bank bailout, to restore all underwater borrowers to the point where they were breaking even, according to First American.

Using government money to do that would be seen as unfair by many taxpayers, Mr. Barr said. On the other hand, doing nothing about underwater mortgages could encourage more walk-aways, dealing another blow to a fragile economy.

"It's not an easy area," he said.

Walking away -- also called "jingle mail," because of the notion that homeowners just mail their keys to the bank, setting off foreclosure proceedings -- began in the Southwest during the 1980s oil collapse, though it has never been clear how widespread it was.

In the current bust, lenders first noticed something strange after real estate prices had fallen about 10 percent.

An executive with Wachovia, one of the country's biggest and most aggressive lenders, said during a conference call in January 2008 that the bank was bewildered by customers who had "the capacity to pay, but have basically just decided not to." (Wachovia failed nine months later and was bought by Wells Fargo.)

With prices now down by about 30 percent, underwater borrowers fall into two groups. Some have owned their homes for many years and got in trouble because they used the house as a cash machine. Others, like Mr. Koellmann in Miami Beach, made only one mistake: they bought as the boom was cresting.

It was April 2006, a moment when the perpetual rise of real estate was considered practically a law of physics. Mr. Koellmann was 23, a management consultant new to Miami.

Financially cautious by nature, he bought a small, plain one-bedroom apartment for $215,000, much less than his agent told him he could afford. He put down 20 percent and received a fixed-rate loan from Countrywide Financial.

Not quite four years later, apartments in the building are selling in foreclosure for $90,000.

"There is no financial sense in staying," Mr. Koellmann said. With the $1,500 he is paying each month for his mortgage, taxes and insurance, he could rent a nicer place on the beach, one with a gym, security and valet parking.

Walking away, he knows, is not without peril. At minimum, it would ruin his credit score. Mr. Koellmann would like to attend graduate school. If an admission dean sees a dismal credit record, would that count against him? How about a new employer?

Most of all, though, he struggles with the ethical question.

"I took a loan on an asset that I didn't see was overvalued," he said. "As much as I would like my bank to pay for that mistake, why should it?"

That is an attitude Wall Street would like to encourage. David Rosenberg, the chief economist of the investment firm Gluskin Sheff, wrote recently that borrowers were not victims. They "signed contracts, and as adults should also be held accountable," he wrote.

Of course, this is not necessarily how Wall Street itself behaves, as demonstrated by the case of Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village. An investment group led by the real estate giant Tishman Speyer recently defaulted on $4.4 billion in debt that it had used to buy the two apartment developments in Manhattan, handing the properties back to the lenders.

Moreover, during the boom, it was the banks that helped drive prices to unrealistic levels by lowering credit standards and unleashing a wave of speculative housing demand.

Mr. Koellmann applied last fall to Bank of America for a modification, noting that his income had slipped. But the lender came back a few weeks ago with a plan that added more restrictive terms while keeping the payments about the same.

"That may have been the last straw," Mr. Koellmann said.

Guy D. Cecala, publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance magazine, says he does not hear much sympathy from lenders for their underwater customers.

"The banks tell me that a lot of people who are complaining were the ones who refinanced and took all the equity out any time there was any appreciation," he said. "The banks are damned if they will help."

Joe Figliola has heard that message. He bought his house in Elgin, Ill., in 2004, then refinanced twice to get better terms. He pulled out a little money both times to cover the closing costs and other expenses. Now his place is underwater while his salary as circulation manager for the local newspaper has been cut.

"It doesn't seem right that I can rent a place somewhere for half of what I'm paying," he said. "I told my bank, 'Just take a little bite out of what I owe. That would ease me up. Isn't that why the president gave you all this money?'"

Bank of America did not agree, so Mr. Figliola, who is 48, sees no recourse other than walking away. "I don't believe this is the right thing to do," he said, "but I've got to survive."
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

There have been lots of speculative bubbles in the history of man.

See Tulip Mania, for example.

They haven't required the assistance of banks, merely a belief that there was easy money to be made and that prices would go up and never down.

A speculative purchase is when people buy things they don't want to hold on to, but just want to re-sell to another at a higher price.

There's nothing inherently wrong in that - except ignoring the risk of the price falling.

The saying that if a deal looks too good to be true, it probably is, is a good one to keep in mind for the next bubble.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

Bad thing is, I love my house... I'm relocating for a better job, that's the only reason I have to sell. Have seen this coming for some time, last year at this time my dept laid off 40 city employees. We lost 3 from the FD, as well as have not filled 5 other positions from people who have left. Then we were told at the middle of the year, that they weren't done laying off...

I put the feelers out last year after the first round of lay offs, and the house has been on the market since then. Almost a year on the market, and only one lowball offer..
frown.gif


F it though, is what it is, I'm going to try an rent it out when I mover here soon, and hopefully that, plus working another job, will help me weather the storm. We'll see.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

If it makes you feel any better, when I listed my house it sat on the market for 5 months with a grand total of 2 people even looking at it. Then, on the day we moved out with the whole house in disarray, someone stopped by and bought it. A sale could come any time.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

It's not ideal, but what about getting a cheap used small RV and commute back and forth on weekends?
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrp3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not ideal, but what about getting a cheap used small RV and commute back and forth on weekends? </div></div>

I don't work a normal schedule, and I'm relocating 4.5 hours away...
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bad thing is, I love my house... I'm relocating for a better job, that's the only reason I have to sell. Have seen this coming for some time, last year at this time my dept laid off 40 city employees. We lost 3 from the FD, as well as have not filled 5 other positions from people who have left. Then we were told at the middle of the year, that they weren't done laying off...

I put the feelers out last year after the first round of lay offs, and the house has been on the market since then. Almost a year on the market, and only one lowball offer..
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F it though, is what it is, I'm going to try an rent it out when I mover here soon, and hopefully that, plus working another job, will help me weather the storm. We'll see. </div></div>

If you really like the place, and it does sound nice, with river access and 10 minutes from the beach, just buckle down, keep it and rent it, and think of it as tour retirement place. Mabey you could even rent it weekly to tourists who want a reasonalbel priced place and dont have to be ON the beach. "Winter Tide" By the time if you retire or want to sell it, it will probrably have gained its value back and more.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bad thing is, I love my house... I'm relocating for a better job, that's the only reason I have to sell. Have seen this coming for some time, last year at this time my dept laid off 40 city employees. We lost 3 from the FD, as well as have not filled 5 other positions from people who have left. Then we were told at the middle of the year, that they weren't done laying off...

I put the feelers out last year after the first round of lay offs, and the house has been on the market since then. Almost a year on the market, and only one lowball offer..
frown.gif


F it though, is what it is, I'm going to try an rent it out when I mover here soon, and hopefully that, plus working another job, will help me weather the storm. We'll see. </div></div>

If you really like the place, and it does sound nice, with river access and 10 minutes from the beach, just buckle down, keep it and rent it, and think of it as tour retirement place. Mabey you could even rent it weekly to tourists who want a reasonalbel priced place and dont have to be ON the beach. "Winter Tide" By the time if you retire or want to sell it, it will probrably have gained its value back and more. </div></div>

I wish, but a FF salary is not conducive to having two mortgages.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

Not suggesting you do this but were it me in your shoes, I would find a cheap place to rent near the new job, and have my wife stay in the house, keeping it clean and in good repair and ON THE MARKET. You can come "home" on your off days or weekends and when time allows, she could come and stay every so often with you.

This would cost you what, maybe an extra $400-$500/month, or less if you find a really good rental option.

You are not bailing on your responsibilities, you are not allowing a new opportunity to slip away and if you and the missus look at this as a hurdle to get through TOGETHER, it can very well strengthen your relationship.

You and your wife can list it for rent and she can show prospective tenants the house. If it is as nice as you say, I would ask for more than the going rate but offer something in return (allow the deposit to be paid over 2-3 months or include some utilities etc.) You can also put out feelers that you would be willing to rent the house to a responsible family. Let local real estate agents, bankers etc. know. But be choosy. Asking above the going rate keeps a lot of the problem tenants away from the get-go.

What town in Baldwin County are you in? My father had to let his place go this past year in Gulf Shores. He had a short-sale buyer, but the bank would not let it go through so he lost the place and the bank lost the capital. Don't think for a moment a short-sale is straight-forward, simple, or easy. A lot of pitfalls and traps and potential wrecks even with a SS.

Best of luck.

MTCW
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tarkio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not suggesting you do this but were it me in your shoes, I would find a cheap place to rent near the new job, and have my wife stay in the house, keeping it clean and in good repair and ON THE MARKET. You can come "home" on your off days or weekends and when time allows, she could come and stay every so often with you.

This would cost you what, maybe an extra $400-$500/month, or less if you find a really good rental option.

You are not bailing on your responsibilities, you are not allowing a new opportunity to slip away and if you and the missus look at this as a hurdle to get through TOGETHER, it can very well strengthen your relationship.

You and your wife can list it for rent and she can show prospective tenants the house. If it is as nice as you say, I would ask for more than the going rate but offer something in return (allow the deposit to be paid over 2-3 months or include some utilities etc.) You can also put out feelers that you would be willing to rent the house to a responsible family. Let local real estate agents, bankers etc. know. But be choosy. Asking above the going rate keeps a lot of the problem tenants away from the get-go.

What town in Baldwin County are you in? My father had to let his place go this past year in Gulf Shores. He had a short-sale buyer, but the bank would not let it go through so he lost the place and the bank lost the capital. Don't think for a moment a short-sale is straight-forward, simple, or easy. A lot of pitfalls and traps and potential wrecks even with a SS.

Best of luck.

MTCW</div></div>

My biggest question on that is if he's got kids. Leaving the wife alone 5 days out of 7 is one thing, but kids need their daddy around for more than just the companionship.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

You are right but tough times require tough measures.

I personally am gone for 5 to 15 days at a time this time of year (from January through April) traveling and working. Oftentimes when I do get home it is late at night and departing early, early the next day. I work pretty much every day, 7 days a week for these 4 months with very few days scheduled free. Often when I do schedule a day free, I end up working that day to make up for a weather-related delay elsewhere in the schedule. I am in fairly good shape financially, this is just what the business I am in requires. For much of the rest of the year I am home continually.

I didn't say what I would do in the OP's shoes was easy or for everyone. I know that for my family and their financial security, now and into the future, there isn't much I wouldn't do.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

he is a firefighter, so its not normal days and hours.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

I couldn't possibly do that, relocating 4.5 hours away, and working 24 on 48 off, would just be unreasonable. It would end up costing me more money b/c it would nail the coffin on working a second job.

Not to mention, I have a toddler, and a 4 month old. It's hard enough on my wife as it is with me gone 24 hours every third day...
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

I was in a close situation before heading to the box. I was paying home plus whatever it cost to stay in a hotel which was about $100 a night since there was only 2 hotels in town and they knew they could get it. Anyway I came up with getting an RV, Was 2008 28' camper that was comfortable. Then the RV lots were between $125-$250 a month depending on town's I went to. When I first started working that job I slept in my truck a few nights. Also camped on public lake campground with another cat who was also trying to save some cash. I know an RV is not an Ideal option but it is an option cheaper than an apartment with rent and bills ($350 range for RV total per month, $700+ range for Apartment). You might also look for someone seeking a roomate in the AO. If you find an older RV or a cheaper one you can pay cash for the price goes down a bit.

 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

When I was training as a paramedic lo, these many years ago, I did my ride along with LA City FD. Many of the guys lived pretty far from the station, some commuted from as far as 4-6 hours away. They lived in the desert country, outside the mountain range that surrounds LA, or lived as far away as San Diego. Several (not many, but a sinificant number) worked outside their schedule (Kelly schedule) at nearly full time jobs, or owned businesses (dry cleaners, real estate {yeah, right}, pizza parlor, gun shop, liquor store, Amway, Plumber, Septic Tank truck, fire extinguisher sales, home security alarms, just to name a few I met).
I also met guys who stayed in their RV, at a local RV Park, then went home on their 3 day.
A good job prospect, shouldn't put you into deeper problems or it isn't worth moving. Keeping the wife home, getting an RV (the market is soft on these too, lots of repos in great shape), and doing some creative planning will make a huge difference in the entire picture.
Good luck.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

No, I own my home outright...............have for years.
I would suggest with what's coming, you be ready to roll........
And contrary to popular belief,no ONE ever owns a home if it's in any city, or county, in the USA.
You pay taxes,and if you do not..........see how fast your the previous occupant.
Liquidity, hard assets, barterable goods, are the way to go now.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MHill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I could hit the rewind button on my life I would have stopped making my payments a year ago. I took a big pay cut at the beginning of the year. I had to dip into my savings every month to continue to make my monthly bills. Now 13 months later my savings is tapped and I still can't make my monthly bills. This entire time I have been looking for new work and trying to negotiate a mortgage reduction. I would have been better of having that money in savings along with all the house payments I've made over the last 13 months.

Newer houses are not appreciating. They are doing the opposite and will continue to do so for quite some time. I honestly believe we are going to see another bust in housing in the next year or two. It will be sometime shortly after the commercial bust that is on the horizon. My house was purchased for close to $600,000 5 years ago. My neighbors house is on the market for $400,000 and not selling. How long is it going to take for me to recoup the money I've already paid in plus make up the lost equity? How about never.

There was a pretty common trend for as long back as records were kept between median income and median housing. It wasn't until the late 90's that the gap really exploded apart. Median housing still has a long way to drop to reach that common trend. </div></div>

1) Buy a $600,000 dollar home (that you couldn't afford) at the height of the housing bubble.
2) Only 4 years into your 30 year mortgage you significantly reduce your income to the point where you can't sustain your current lifestyle.
3) Decide the best option is to weather the storm and tap into savings instead of diminishing your quality of life and liquidating assets.
4) Proceed to skim off your savings account for 13 months.
5) At the end of year 5 you're broke.
6) You have an epiphany: You could have avoided this disaster by simply not paying your bills.
7) Decide your new calling is to pass on terrible financial advice to all of your internet buddies.

My advice is to not listen to this guy. Speak to an <span style="font-weight: bold">independent</span> financial adviser (not with of BoA); it is possible they will be able to help your consolidate your debt/ find a better lender for you, and increase the loan duration. It will lower your monthly payment but ultimately increase the amount you owe (refinance again when you're back on your feet). I can't imagine having to drive 4 hours just to find work. Can you not find a job, or you can't find a job that you think you're entitled too? If being a firefighter isn't paying your bills, have you thought about a career change? No point in selling and taking a significant loss unless you've exhausted all of your options...
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

UPDATE: we decided to not SS the house. We found a renter at the last minute so that should sustain us until the market here comes back.
 
Re: OT: Thinking about Short Selling my house...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> until the market here comes back. </div></div>

Thats what I have always like about hose draggers, they only see the bright side. Where can I buy some of the same glasses?
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