Phoenix Custom Rifles pics, reviews, lead times

[Keith Johns]

1-2 week turn around on brake installs, Cerakote, bedding, etc.

2-4 weeks on full builds if all parts are in-hand.


Thanks guys. We appreciate everything.

 

[Keith Johns]

Short wait times right now guys. Got past the hunting rifle rush and doing mostly PRS rifle rebarreling for guys getting ready for the next season.

With all parts in hand, full builds can be as short as 1-2 weeks.
Single service jobs like brake installs, Cerakote, bedding, etc. are about 1 week.

Thanks everyone. We got started here on the hide in 2009 and without Snipershide, meaning you guys, we wouldn’t have been able to do what we do. So a big and sincere THANK YOU.

Keith, 4804678090
Phoenix Custom Rifles

 

[Abbey]

I’m loving the 6.5 CM you built for me last year. I have all the parts for my .338 LM project except still waiting on the Defiance action (going on 7 months now) and AXSR chassis. (If anyone has an Elite Sand right-hand they want to unload…). As soon as the action is in, I’ll give you a call. Planning to cerakote this one.

I’ll try to do my part to keep you busy if supply chains can hook me up. Given how long it’s taken for parts to arrive, I’m already planning my “next next” project. Thinking of a light “short mag” in 6.5 PRC or .300 WSM.

 

[Keith Johns]

Very glad to hear it and eager to build you another rifle. It’s a bummer it’s so hard to get actions right now.

I’m very interested to see what changes, if anything, hearing that Defiance was sold to the same new owner of Mcmillan. I use a lot of McMillan stocks and they have always been my preferred stock maker, and I can’t say I disagree with any of the changes I’ve noticed there since it was sold.

 

[Abbey]

I'm told my .338 action (Deviant Tactical) should be "any day now". We'll see. The chassis is another story. They were in stock this spring and I should have just bought one. Now I'm hearing it could be another 6+ months for the next shipment from AI. So I might change plans & go the stock route with something like a McMillan U10-7. We'll see. Need to figure that out before I Cerakote the barreled action though.

For the lightweight short mag, I was thinking of a Defiance AntiX but with current availability (not sure if they're taking new orders), I'm starting to look at other options. The Impact NBK looks interesting but I'm not sure I want to go 3-lug 60 deg throw.

 

[Keith Johns]

Mentioning the McMillan thing, I want to make a couple comments… which are just my opinion so, please, no one get their feelings hurt.

McMillan doesn’t do Savage or Browning inlets anymore. They’ll still mold the stock, but won’t do the inlet work. I assume they’ll soon stop offering stocks for those brands, and some others, all together.
I agree with this decision. The more products a company offers, the more difficult quality control must be. Just look at PTG as an example for that.

Now the part that may hurt some feelings…. Savages are designed like toys and some aftermarket parts for them are incompatible with other aftermarket parts made for them. I don’t like working on them, because I like to be proud of my work, and I can’t blame McMillan for no longer making stocks for them.

To hurt some more feelings with my opinions…
Factory actions all together, with the exception of Tikkas, aren’t really worth using anymore. The cost difference between two nearly identical rifles with the only difference being the action, let’s say one uses a Rem700 and the other a Defiance Tenacity, is a few hundred dollars. Remember the Rem700 gets trued, gets a new lug, needs a quality scope rail, maybe a bolt knob, a side bolt stop or 8-40 scope base holes if you really want to splurge… add all that up and when all is said n done, the 700 build didn’t save much money, if any, over the aftermarket action build.
The quality difference between a reworked 700 action and a Tenacity is huge. Not even comparable.

Back when aftermarket actions were fewer, rifle standards were lower, and ammo didn’t cost a fortune, hell ya it made sense to build off factory actions. But times have changed. Ammo costs a fortune. Gas costs more now and most of us have to drive an hour or more to go shoot. Is saving a couple hundred bucks on your rifle, when it vastly changes the end product, really worth it?

In conclusion, depending on your budget, either build a full blown custom rifle(with a good aftermarket action) or just go buy a Tikka and add to it over time. A Tikka in a Mcmillan stock is hard to beat.

 

[Keith Johns]

Well except for this, mcmillan isn’t offering 50cal stocks anymore. What a kick in the balls.

 

[Keith Johns]

McMillan Game Warden bedded, with a cabron cross-bolt, and painted/sealed inside.

The cross-bolt is in front of the trigger/behind the mag area. And the “paint” used to seal and beautify the inside of the stock is C series Cerakote.

 

[Keith Johns]

I’m sorry to see the price of Tenacity actions go up so much. Those things were too good to be true at the old price.

 

[kcsmith]

Not sure if I ever posted this, probably did, but here it is as a reminder we build them.... 375 CheyTac. ...with a custom made extractor that actually works(the Stiller extractor was too thin or was incredibly soft for some reason. You could bend it by looking at it).

I dont have a Cheytac, but what is the extractor made from ?

 

[Keith Johns]

I dont have a Cheytac, but what is the extractor made from ?

If you mean the extractor I made, it’s been a while since I made it but I used tool steel and can’t remember which kind. I didn’t heat treat it after machining, I’ll admit, but I tested the shit out of it and I’m pretty sure it would’ve towed my truck. It was overkill strong but after bending 3 or 4 extractors form stiller I decided to make it as strong as possible.

If you’re asking what the stiller extractor was made of I have no idea. I’m not a metallurgist but they were soft.

 

[Keith Johns]

Here’s a 788 we built up pretty nice. Had to fully inlet a flat top Mcmillan game warden for it. Then did our camp pattern on it.
I should’ve gotten better pictures of it. It’s gotta be one of the nicest 788s in the world lol. BRUX barrel chambered in 6.5creedmoor. Feeds like the magazines were made for 6.5creed. Came out great. There are some concerns I have about those 788 actions but I think this one will be sweet rifle.

 

[Keith Johns]

I’m trying to make a list of great actions around the $1000 mark to suggest to customers. I used to just tell everyone to get a Tenacity. Prices are going up but the Zermatt Origin can still be had for $1000 last I saw and hopefully a couple others stay around that price mark.

Anyone have any action suggestions that still cost around $1000 and are top notch?

 

[6.5SH]

I’m trying to make a list of great actions around the $1000 mark to suggest to customers. I used to just tell everyone to get a Tenacity. Prices are going up but the Zermatt Origin can still be had for $1000 last I saw and hopefully a couple others stay around that price mark.

Anyone have any action suggestions that still cost around $1000 and are top notch?

Not in the wild but looked at the ARC CDG yet?

 

[kcsmith]

If you mean the extractor I made, it’s been a while since I made it but I used tool steel and can’t remember which kind. I didn’t heat treat it after machining, I’ll admit, but I tested the shit out of it and I’m pretty sure it would’ve towed my truck. It was overkill strong but after bending 3 or 4 extractors form stiller I decided to make it as strong as possible.

If you’re asking what the stiller extractor was made of I have no idea. I’m not a metallurgist but they were soft.

I had asked because I had considered making an extractor for the 700 I had and my shop has a good amount of A2 lying around.

 

[Keith Johns]

I believe it was A2 coincidentally. I can look when I get into the shop tomorrow.

 

[Keith Johns]

Been a while since I’ve posted anything. Building some great rifles and have some new products.

Nice 6.5PRC

New Garmin Chrono tripod/rifle mounts

And some thumb rests / side rails that have been working great

Thanks for checkin it out.

 

[Satterlee]

Question:
When you time the barrel runout does this mean that prior to threading and chambering you first determine the high and low in the center of the barrel radially then index the high or low to 6 or 12 O'clock with the receiver.
As an exaggerated example, the large majority of rifle barrels are like a jump rope with more runout in the center of the barrel vs the breech and muzzle end.
With barrel on centers determine the high and low in the center of the blank. Transfer that information to the breech end via marking method, set up once again thru the headstock dialed on both ends, thread and chamber indexing the high, low mark to 6 and 12 to the receiver.
I find this interesting and just want to ensure I'm understanding what you mean by "timing runout".

 

[Keith Johns]

Ya pretty much. Runout doesn’t always make a jump rope or rainbow shape though, sometimes it makes a ski ramp, and sometimes it seems to corkscrew through the barrel. But yes the goal result is for the end of the bore being worked on to be indicated in so it is as straight as that bore will allow(without bending/flexing the barrel obviously). Sometimes bores are very straight and simply indicating the last few inches of the working end is enough… sometimes there’s enough runout that I have to focus only on the throat area, then pre-bore the first 1-1.5” with a boring bar.

I use a 2.625” long stem indicator to measure the bore, but have dual piloted range rods if needed. I trust the indicator more.

Using an indicator also shows me the exact shape of the grooves, and allows me to read off the lands or grooves as needed(or both).

Then of course the muzzle end of the barrel gets timed so it’ll be at 12:00 when on the receiver.


I also use JGS and PTG floating reamer holders(mostly the JGS holder now). I don’t believe in RIGID reamer set-ups… to be honest I think it’s absolutely insane.


All reamers are from JGS, carbide preferably but if it’s a reamer I don’t think I’ll use a lot I’ll buy HSS… I get talked into buying some dumb reamers sometimes lol.

 

[Keith Johns]

Oh it’s probably worth mentioning what I find in terms of runout.

Bartlein barrels I must say have been the straightest. BRUX is a very close second and I’m really splitting hairs here. Proof goes through periods of being impressively straight, and periods of being not so straight but still acceptable. These seem to be the best three brands from my experience.

For numbers… I’d say a good barrel has less than .010 deviation from Z axis when measured at muzzle. Average is .010 to .020.
“Bad” barrels to me have .030” or more of runout and in some situations I’ll pull the barrel and send it back when it’s more than .030”.

But, I have to add trying to describe bore curvature with one number like that is a little dumb. As I said I see different shaped, drill movement/curvature/runout, whatever we want to call it. I’ll admit I’ve had curvature that I couldn’t make sense of. I was still obviously able to get the throat area straight, and the muzzle at 12:00 center, but what the rest of the bore was doing was quite puzzling to me. I’ve been through that a few times. I guess what matters, is what matters, and not what you can’t control.

Buy only the best barrels. It is the last component to ever save money on or refuse to wait for the right one.

Button pulled barrels(usually cheaper than cut rifled) seem pretty atrocious in terms of both runout and bore size consistency at the bore ends. I’ve work with some great button pulled barrels but overwhelmingly the cut rifled barrels are better in every way.

 

[Keith Johns]

I just recorded some video of today’s barreling job. I’ll put it up on our YouTube channel under the name “barrel indicating steps”.


Today was an m24 proof .308(not carbon wrapped)
Very straight barrel.

And indicating must be done with the spider bolts finger tight, then snugged up tighter and tighter slowly, while watching what it’s doing. Even these narrow, brass tipped, spider bolts can’t manipulate(bend to put it crudely) thin barrels. You’d have a hard time bending an m24 or larger but you can definitely induce some unnatural curvature to it if you aren’t careful.

I plan to add the true-bore-alignment chuck to my arsenal but I have my complaints about the way they work. Not necessarily due to the chuck design itself but things you must do to use it in any practical manner with all the various barrel contours out there.

 

[Terry Cross]

I plan to add the true-bore-alignment chuck to my arsenal but I have my complaints about the way they work. Not necessarily due to the chuck design itself but things you must do to use it in any practical manner with all the various barrel contours out there.

It's not a problem.
Call the shop Monday and I will be happy to explain what I worked out for holding tapers in the TBAS chuck. I have been using my method for the last 8 or 9 years and am totally happy with the results.

 

[Keith Johns]

It's not a problem.
Call the shop Monday and I will be happy to explain what I worked out for holding tapers in the TBAS chuck. I have been using my method for the last 8 or 9 years and am totally happy with the results.

I’ll definitely be buying one eventually.
Two things worry me about it.. It seems obvious I’ll still need an outboard spider or some type of support on the non-working end which brings up some minor cocnerns for me. And on smaller contour barrels I imagine most guys use bushings that fit around the swoop of the barrel, or even in front of that, and the chuck grabs onto the bushings…. I can see how that works but I don’t love it.

I’d love some advice on how you’re using it. I have no doubt it’s working for you. Once I get around to buying one I’ll reach out.
Thanks very much

 

[Keith Johns]

Might sound crazy but I’m going to try 3D printing barrel bushings for my barrel vise, rather than using aluminum. I can CAD the 3D printed bushings and make a ton of small variations way easier than machining them all from aluminum.
There are some pretty impressive filaments to choose from but I have PET-CF so I’ll try that first.
Being able to make bushings like that may make the true bore chuck more appealing to me.

Plus this material might be nicer to use for this than aluminum. It might grip better while scratching less, and I’m pretty confident it’s plenty rigid.. especially under containment pressure. It’s like magic black aluminum lol.

 

[Terry Cross]

It seems obvious I’ll still need an outboard spider or some type of support on the non-working end which brings up some minor cocnerns for me.

You absolutely don't need an outboard spider unless your lathe is super lightweight. That's one of the efficiencies of the setup.

I’d love some advice on how you’re using it. I have no doubt it’s working for you. Once I get around to buying one I’ll reach out.
Thanks very much

You're welcome. Any time.

 

[ChiefSillyHorse]

You absolutely don't need an outboard spider unless your lathe is super lightweight. That's one of the efficiencies of the setup.

You're welcome. Any time.

I’m very happy to say I have rifles built by both of you, and both are two of the nicest rifles I own. Oh, and you’re both great people too!

 

[Keith Johns]

Quick turn around times right now, and I keep a good amount of BRUX barrels in stock.

 

[fatmat27]

last few parts coming in, should be able to bring it all down this weekend!

 

[mj1995]

Just talked to you on the phone the other day about a 300 norma. I'll be bringing it over soon as well.

 

[Keith Johns]

Thanks guys. We’re trying to stay caught up and be doing work as it comes in the door, meaning no real wait time. We’ve been hovering around a 3 week build time lately, if not waiting on parts, but I’m nearly starting builds as they come through the door now.

Once my large order of BRUX barrels comes in this year I’ll have twice the barrel supply and should have anything a guy needs(except in .25 and .27)

I’ve been considering offering prefits for certain actions but if I can get chamber jobs done in a week I’d rather do that. I’m not a big fan of prefits. Having the action in-hand when doing the chambering lets me set headspace to the half thou of where I want it, and ensures barrel timing like I spoke about a few posts ago. The prefits people bring in, from the best of companies, that I install on actions for them are not headpaced or timed as precisely as the barrel install I do.