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Pimp my GAP10

netranger6

netranger6

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 15, 2009
2,649
225
Vicoria, Texas
Aight, I have a GAP 10 in .308, 18 inch, switch, and tuned to my 30P-1, with PRS, SSA-E, all the goodies, and FTE brake. I have 150 rounds down hole, and she was troublesome with FTF's, double stacks, and failure to lock on last round inside first 100 rounds. Last 60 she ran flawlessly suppressed, with switch on suppressed. Unsupressed and of course, appropriate setting, she ran better but is not locking on last round, and not feeding most of the time. I have to rack it to eject and load. 10 of those rounds were with gas off, shooting SW 175 subs, worked great. I keep my shoulder in it hard, and all rounds are off bipod and a table, no prone yet. Ammo has been FGGM 175's and SW 175/168, but all last 50 were FGGM 175, except the subs of course.

Now, I see guys on here that have replaced their BCG and buffers with JP's low mass stuff. So, I would like your input, to see exacty which part numbers you, if have done this, ordered. Accuracy isn't an issue, at all. She runs as good as any GAP/Surgeon/ or DTA I have had. Just wondering if I should continue to scrub it in, or drop dime on JP parts. Also, I keep it lubricated well with SLIP 2000 on cleanings, and EWL when I store it. I mean liberal coats. Chamber is always immaculate. I noticed on last outing as well, she shot less dirty suppressed. Which I am happy with. Mags are all 20 and 10 rounder PMAGS.

I am not complaining. Simply asking for ya'lls input, as I had this build put together for me, but more for my son and want to have it running like a sewing machine. Thanks in advance!




 
Tried different magazines? Bolt lock and ftf could both be magazine issue.

It's worth trying some other factory ammo for Shits I would think.
 
What type of buffer does it currently have? I have had to trim a few buffers, the nylon that contacts the back of the buffer tube. If the tolerance is too tight, the momentum of the bolt will be too fast to allow the bolt catch to engage. You can feel it by hand with a empty mag, rack the charging handle slowly and see when the bolt catch engages, then see if the bolt can continue rearward slightly, 1/8 or more.
 
I liked the Phase 5 Tactical EBRv2 on mine a lot. It really helped in matches. If you get one though remember to get the 223 version. Also maybe consider a QD mount for the PRS from Brownells or Parker Mountain Machine, and then if you can ever find one the Raptor for the 7.62 is nice for weak side.
 
Did you clean the gun before using it? Did you put 100 or so rounds of ball ammo through it before shooting any match ammo?

I did all the above with my P308 and have never had a single issue. Not sure if any applies to your GAP but just some sugfestions.
 
Oh yeah. I'm quite anal when comes to new stuff. Was tuned for my can so had little residue. Cleaned and lived well. No. Never shot garbage ammo. Always match.
 
If you have put 150 rounds of Fed GM through it and it doesn't run like a sewing machine I would send it back and tell them to keep it until it does.
 
I work a lot. But next off schedule gonna run another 50 and see how goes. But a guy on here said he slapped in a JP low mass with success.
 
You shouldn't have to swap out new parts to get your GAP10 running properly. I would let GAP look at it.

Just wondering, did GAP install the PRS stock or you? Wondering if its a buffer/spring issue?
 
netranger6 said:
Also, I keep it lubricated well with SLIP 2000 on cleanings, and EWL when I store it. I mean liberal coats.
Click to expand...

Typical GAP purchaser. Pays top dollar for a range toy from one of the few manufacturers who actually knows what they're doing then jumps on the interwebz to complain about operator head space and timing. That being said...

Contrary to your ascertain above, there doesn't appear to be a drop of lubricant on that rifle. As in bone dry. Get it wet and keep it wet. Problem solved...
 
I'm with Ballista One on this, not the insult part, but the lube part.

GA and I had don't really see eye to eye on the amount of lubrication needed. I run a shit ton, why? I feel that the gun will expel all the oil it doesn't need and keep what it does. I understand that this is a precision built weapon but I think the old Army saying applies, "A wet bolt is a happy bolt".
 
I agree get it wet with some good lube. I never had a single problem with my gap 10. I run federal fgmm, copper creek and Asym in mine.

I think George said one time its not a good rifle to suppress, having said that if everything was tuned by Gap you should be having no issues. If the lube doesn't work send it back and they will get her running right.
 
Mine did what yours did... Especially with the SW ammo (Best groups though). I just started putting more lube on the bolt carrier and it worked itself out. I have some more SW 175 that I need to try, now that it appears to be settled in... I didn't replace anything
 
I don't think the BCG from JP will help with any of your issues. The only thing the JP will offer is reduced felt recoil. At worse it may introduce other problems.

To get it running right, call Ken at GAP and get some suggestions from him first. The suggestions given from others here so far could also be tried. I run my GAP-10 somewhat wet, but not dripping, like some have suggested, and it works just fine. I had one problem similar to what you discribe, but it was traced back to a magazine.

Try some different ammo too. Get some Federal or Black Hills match or if you reload, try some of your own loads.
 
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Thanks for suggestions. George suggested same things. Just don't know why running suppressed is perfect. However normal gas has gotten better as rounds count increases.
I don't reload so I'm at mercy of factory match.
 
get a 5 gallon bucket of 10W-30 Mobil 1 and dip the whole upper in and let drip dry. Those $3000+ rifles are so finicky
 
netranger6 said:
Thanks for suggestions. George suggested same things. Just don't know why running suppressed is perfect. However normal gas has gotten better as rounds count increases.
I don't reload so I'm at mercy of factory match.
Click to expand...

More back pressure from the suppressor may cause the rubber/plastic on the end of the buffer to compress a bit more (or the buffer spring to compress more), thus the BCG will go back into the buffer tube a bit more and clear the bolt stop, so that it can pop up. This would also help with feeding issues, as the BCG going back a bit further will allow the bolt to clear the end of the cartridge in the magazine and thus allow the cartridge to "stick up" a bit more in the magazine so that it can be pushed by the bolt/BCG as it comes back.

But then, I'm not a gunsmith.......
 
netranger6 said:
Makes sense. So could I be under gassed in normal mode with switch block?
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking too. Another gentleman had this problem a week or two ago (not a GAP rifle, it was an SR-25). I believe he was suffering a similar issue, though the post has not yet been updated. http://www.snipershide.com/shooting.../262526-kac-sr25-er-problem-under-gassed.html

My post on that topic is also pertinent to your issue, potentially, of course. It is just too convenient that these rifles are running fine suppressed.

Although I agree with Steelhead on most of his points, I am curious to explore whether the JP LMOS could do more for your rifle than just reduce recoil impulse. Theoretically, with the LMOS being a lighter unit, it is assumed that it would move more distance in the buffer tube if given the same amount of gas when using the spec'ed BCG. Perhaps, this is potentially the reason why it "fixed" your friend's rifle.

I am not saying Steelhead is wrong by any means, but it does seem probable that IF your issue is the lack of travel by your BCG, then it serves to believe that switching to a lighter unit may help it travel further.

Any experts in here that can speak to this issue? I am interested myself.

Again, these are just my thoughts...I've been wrong before. It was that one time, you guys probably don't even remember that one time. ;)
 
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netranger6 said:
I work a lot. But next off schedule gonna run another 50 and see how goes. But a guy on here said he slapped in a JP low mass with success.
Click to expand...

That was me. However I didnt have a switchblock. Sounds like yours just needs a bit of tweaking. I use an SLR Gas Blocks

It has detents so I dont worry about locktite either.

I wanted the JP silent capture recoil buffer and their bolt because I liked how my JP LRP-07 felt like it was on ball bearings, it was so smooth. I got the styling of the GAP-10 with a bartlein barrel and the internals from the JP. Its what I wanted in mine and its shoots better then my bolt action .308 currently does. Mind you nothing was wrong how it came from GAP, I just wanted to be different.



 
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beenjammin said:
That was me. However I didnt have a switchblock. Sounds like yours just needs a bit of tweaking. I use an SLR Gas Blocks

It has detents so I dont worry about locktite either.

I wanted the JP silent capture recoil buffer and their bolt because I liked how my JP LRP-07 felt like it was on ball bearings, it was so smooth. I got the styling of the GAP-10 with a bartlein barrel and the internals from the JP. Its what I wanted in mine and its shoots better then my bolt action .308 currently does. Mind you nothing was wrong how it came from GAP, I just wanted to be different.



Click to expand...

I have a friend who did that with his OBR's. He preferred the OBR's aesthetics, but found the JP "guts" to run smoother, so he 86'ed the LaRue internals and made it an OBRLRP-07.

Bad ass rifle man.
 
Ballista One said:
A guy who refers to other members as a plural you (ya'll) and infers that his rifle has female qualities by labeling it "her" calls me a fag. Classic...
Click to expand...

Are you inferring that a rifle should have male qualities? A little awkward that you want to get up on a masculine object...
 
-Nick- said:
Are you inferring that a rifle should have male qualities? A little awkward that you want to get up on a masculine object...
Click to expand...

You have no dog in the race, but OK... I'm inferring nothing and I don't want to "get up" on anything. I'm more than certain the OP can stand up for himself. You're welcome to quietly move along now.
 
Aight. Went out today with the gap10. Slammed another 50 of FGGM 175 in her. 25 suppressed 25 non. Ran flawlessly on both. Groups were much better this time out as well. Was hitting 2inch air rifle clays at 200 all day. Ran most in 5 round waves out of 10 round pmag. Guess really do gotta wait and let it run in a bit. Nothing changed on my end. Same lube practice. Same shoulder. Etc... Bolt locked. Zero ftf. Zero double ups. Very nice. Ten dot drill in a minute or so at 100 all ten on target. Most dead nuts center. Nice. Didn't add anything but will likely slap in a JP captured buffer for hell of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Listen guys bottom line, this is not only fact but has been proven time and time again. A WELL OILED AR Rifle will always run better than one with very little oil. Now I already know that a few of you are gonna come on here and say that over in Iraq it is all dust and sand and if you put to much lubrication on it that it will stick and gum up the parts. OK yes it will and in certain cases ex. Iraq yes you still want to lubricate your gun but not over lube it, but 9 out of 10 times under normal conditions you want your rifle to be WET. John Paul said himself that after every shot you should have some oil on your glasses, he told me on the phone that he likes to run his JP Rifles WET. You can RUN an AR type Rifle DRY and it will run BUT the parts will WEAR OUT much quicker.
 
jevan126 said:
Listen guys bottom line, this is not only fact but has been proven time and time again. A WELL OILED AR Rifle will always run better than one with very little oil. Now I already know that a few of you are gonna come on here and say that over in Iraq it is all dust and sand and if you put to much lubrication on it that it will stick and gum up the parts. OK yes it will and in certain cases ex. Iraq yes you still want to lubricate your gun but not over lube it, but 9 out of 10 times under normal conditions you want your rifle to be WET. John Paul said himself that after every shot you should have some oil on your glasses, he told me on the phone that he likes to run his JP Rifles WET. You can RUN an AR type Rifle DRY and it will run BUT the parts will WEAR OUT much quicker.
Click to expand...

I Agree 1000%!! Forget the fancy lubes with these guns (I have them all, and use some of them). I use Synthetic Motor Oil or Synthetic ATF. The oil is a bit thicker, the ATF thinner. I way prefer the oil over the ATF, but if you feel the oil is too heavy, add some ATF. AR style rifles need to have their uppers cleaned, but I also run 100's of rounds before I pull the copper out of the barrel. I also don't use brushes in the barrel. When cleaning the upper, start with a dry paper towel. Wipe everything down, then use some Hoppes if you feel it is needed. If you really want to use a fancy lube, coat the bolt and BCG with something like th. Frog lube paste if you plan to run a bunch of rounds or run the gun real hard. Or, squirt some motor oil on the bolt during the session.

When I got my GAP I read all these post about issues. When the gun came in I greased her up, and shot her. Zero issues. I have cleaned the copper from the barrel once following the initial range session. No copper out of that hand lapped barrel. I have had 3 rounds not eject. Hand loads using RAM Tac that were way too light (afterwards I found this is a known issue with autoload 308's and Tac). Otherwise the gun has eaten everything I have fed her from ball to Lapua brass hand loads.

When you break a AR-10 in, you want it dripping.
 
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I run it wet, but not so wet that it is dripping down my trigger finger. I think it's just gotta run in. I remember how tight everything was on round one, especially the upper and lower. Still tight, just smoother. I'm still happy, but happier that I can get through a day without double checking the chamber after every third shot.
 
Took my Gap 10 up to Heber AZ. this past weekend and got my first 1000 yard hit with it. It's a .308 with a 20" barrel. I was shooting at a full size AR500 steel silhouette. I then went 5 out of 7 at 800 as fast I could line back up and pull the trigger. The more I shoot mine the more in love with I get. Mine has always ran 100% reliable, I use frog lube on it. I need to get some smaller steel targets like coyotes or something, its getting too easy to hit the full size target.
 
Does it have the correct screw holding the PRS stock on the tube? The Magpul screw is shorter than a milspec screw. If you use a milspec screw it will not allow the buffer to travel fully.
 
josh1233 said:
Does it have the correct screw holding the PRS stock on the tube? The Magpul screw is shorter than a milspec screw. If you use a milspec screw it will not allow the buffer to travel fully.
Click to expand...

All is good now. Like many others, the GAP10 just needed a run in period. Last outing was flawless all around.
 
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