All it will take is for some crackhead gangbanger to get caught with one.
Cops will arrest, DAs will prosecute.
- Thread starter Conrad101st
- Start date
All it will take is for some crackhead gangbanger to get caught with one.
Cops will arrest, DAs will prosecute.
Oh somewhere in there it explicitly states something about them being able to prosecute for intent just because you have the parts, even if they ain’t mated up and you got some in the basement and some in the attic or some shit then they can get you in intent because you bought them to intend to put together. Lmao. So yeah they wrote it with the intent on it being this ambiguous so they can decide to prosecute people on made up shit, if they feel like it meets whatever their interpretation of illegal is for that day. Shit needs to be black and white. I’m sure the courts will agree, at some point. But how long is that gonna take?
That would be MY interpretation but I'm not presumptuous enough to assume I know that's what THEY mean when they're trying to be vague and ambiguous
But, I have several guns and spare parts, which 'could' be reconfigured to be illegal, but also have valid, legal configurations?
This gets back to that whole story about the game warden who wanted to charge the women because the boat had a fishing pole in it but no license, but she said she could charge him with rape because he had a penis and could.
This gets back to that whole story about the game warden who wanted to charge the women because the boat had a fishing pole in it but no license, but she said she could charge him with rape because he had a penis and could.
You should become familiar with:
United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992)
I suspect the ATF is going to not tell you they already lost that case very clearly.
But that's your supreme court ruling that the evil ATF will have to abide by and most courts will tend to follow that opinion.
So I'm guessing more fingerprint cards, pics, and forms?
Option 1- Don't comply.
Option 2- Destroy firearm before 120 days is up.
Option 3- Sell firearm before 120 days is up.
Option 4- Replace short barrel with 16"+ barrel.
Option 5- Remove brace.
Option 6- Register with Form 1-Individual.
Option 7- Register with Form 1-Trust.
Option 8-You are handicapped and need a brace. Still trying to verify this.....
Option 9- ??
I was curious and logged into my Eform account and started to do a Form 1 Trust. When I clicked on Form 1 it does bring me to another site specifically for this new rule. Luckily I have a few mug shots to upload and extra finger printed cards laying around. Sucks but I fear it will hold.
Not sure if anybody mentioned but you can only do a Form 1-Trust if said firearm is already owned by a Trust otherwise Form 1 Individual is your only option if you're picking Options 6 or 7.
Option 2- Destroy firearm before 120 days is up.
Option 3- Sell firearm before 120 days is up.
Option 4- Replace short barrel with 16"+ barrel.
Option 5- Remove brace.
Option 6- Register with Form 1-Individual.
Option 7- Register with Form 1-Trust.
Option 8-
Option 9- ??
I was curious and logged into my Eform account and started to do a Form 1 Trust. When I clicked on Form 1 it does bring me to another site specifically for this new rule. Luckily I have a few mug shots to upload and extra finger printed cards laying around. Sucks but I fear it will hold.
Not sure if anybody mentioned but you can only do a Form 1-Trust if said firearm is already owned by a Trust otherwise Form 1 Individual is your only option if you're picking Options 6 or 7.
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(if anyone has one)
From BuckeyeFirearms:
Although the ATF states a 120-day grace period to register a pistol as an SBR, the ATF only promises not to enforce NFA rules on these devices for 60 days. The ATF will give a tax forbearance for the $200 tax stamp fee. A tax forbearance means that the ATF will not collect the $200 tax fee, although, by the law, you still owe the fee; it just will not be collected. The rule is set up the way it is because the ATF cannot waive a tax.
Gun owners must use e-Forms to file for the tax stamp. Only individuals would qualify for the tax stamp on devices with pistol stabilizing braces. If someone wanted to put the firearm into a trust, they must first register as an individual and then pay the $200 transfer fee to transfer it into a trust. Many people who own NFA items prefer having their firearms in a trust.
Some states do not allow for SBRs. Gun owners in those states do have options.
From BuckeyeFirearms:
Although the ATF states a 120-day grace period to register a pistol as an SBR, the ATF only promises not to enforce NFA rules on these devices for 60 days. The ATF will give a tax forbearance for the $200 tax stamp fee. A tax forbearance means that the ATF will not collect the $200 tax fee, although, by the law, you still owe the fee; it just will not be collected. The rule is set up the way it is because the ATF cannot waive a tax.
Gun owners must use e-Forms to file for the tax stamp. Only individuals would qualify for the tax stamp on devices with pistol stabilizing braces. If someone wanted to put the firearm into a trust, they must first register as an individual and then pay the $200 transfer fee to transfer it into a trust. Many people who own NFA items prefer having their firearms in a trust.
Some states do not allow for SBRs. Gun owners in those states do have options.
That might be a good thing. It will wake up some of the do-nothing-ain't-gonna-take-my-gun-from-me-I'll-head-for-the-hills crowd.
For too long, lots of gunowners have sat on the sidelines and done nothing. I use to work a lot of gun shows with an information desk to get people involved in the 2A fight.
When confronted with the need to write their elected representative, the reply was usually, "If I do that, then they are gonna know where I live."
I'm not joking and you could never make this up. The same people that talked tough about never giving up their guns would shudder at the thought of writing their congress critters.
When I got the "they're gonna know where I live" statement, I'd ask them if they pay taxes.
They would look at me like a dog watching Rachel Madcow on television. Then after a response time that you could measure with a calendar, they'd look at me and say, "what's taxes got to do with it?"
I would have thought that the stolen 2020 election and Covid farce would get a lot more people fired up but that hasn't happened. Only when they lose their home and locked up will they wake up.
Regarding #8.... is this actually a real-life thing? Can some people with disabilities continue to have braced pistols as far as this new ruling, or were disabilities ever a consideration beyond hypothetical?
#9 weld and pin suppressor on end, then it meets the length required - thoughts?
This info came from my friend who is handicapped and has maybe 20-40% strength in his hands and is in a wheel chair who owns 2 braced AR's. HOWEVER I could not find ANY info on exceptions for handicapped citizens in this new rule so tread carefully.
I have an email into the ATF regarding trusts and SBR.
I want clarification on whether or not, you can still put a pistol or “other“ lower(not previously on a trust) on a trust at all ever, or is it that that we can’t only during this 120 day “free” grace period?
If we can’t put any SBR on the trust at all anymore, that’s huge.
You people do realize that by applying for the form 1 your admitting to a felony right?
To do so your acknowledging being in possession of an unregistered SBR & confirming your aware of same.
Check out Staples explanation @16.21
To do so your acknowledging being in possession of an unregistered SBR & confirming your aware of same.
Check out Staples explanation @16.21
I’d strongly recommend people wait a little bit before applying for a “free” SBR on this. I have some legal and registered NFA stuff and I am not making any hasty decisions on this. I think it’s wise to wait and see what lawsuits drop in the next week or two prior to filling any paperwork out. That’s just my opinion and it’s worth what you paid for it, exactly 1.3746 Flips.
I'm proposing a new motto for the ATF:
"We're not happy until you're not happy."
"We're not happy until you're not happy."
I couldn’t figure out their angle on some of this, especially the fact that no one can register these to a trust unless their (then non-NFA) pistol was already in a trust before April 13, but I think I get it now:
Biden gets to toot his horn that he effected some level of gun control/registration, the ATF plays the role of benign benefactor by allowing “tax free SBRs” (how gracious of them), but then still collects a lot of $200 taxes from those that choose to register. But “wait” you say, “the tax stamp is free if you register within the 120 day grace period.” Yes, but you can’t register it to a trust. No one wants to register their NFA stuff as individuals, but they are mandating that for these braced pistols. Why? So they get their $200 when you transfer your shit into your trust later. They’re still getting their $$, just at the back door instead of up front. It’s about money. They’re seeing every brace as a missed chance to collect $200. This is a stop-loss and an attempt to recoup missed revenue.
Biden gets to toot his horn that he effected some level of gun control/registration, the ATF plays the role of benign benefactor by allowing “tax free SBRs” (how gracious of them), but then still collects a lot of $200 taxes from those that choose to register. But “wait” you say, “the tax stamp is free if you register within the 120 day grace period.” Yes, but you can’t register it to a trust. No one wants to register their NFA stuff as individuals, but they are mandating that for these braced pistols. Why? So they get their $200 when you transfer your shit into your trust later. They’re still getting their $$, just at the back door instead of up front. It’s about money. They’re seeing every brace as a missed chance to collect $200. This is a stop-loss and an attempt to recoup missed revenue.
We live in a nation where our Central Bank just adds zeros to the amount of dollars in circulation. I can assure you they don’t give a rat’s ass about making money off of tax stamps. If they did, they would have raised the cost from the 1934 figure. $200 isn’t even a drop in the bucket.
This is absolutely about control. And if they can get even half of the millions of people who own braced pistols to register them, they are able to track where millions of firearms are located, restrict their movement across state lines, and in the majority of cases, prevent their use outside of one individual and significantly reduce instances of transfer to others by making it difficult to put them on your trust. Basically, they MASSIVELY increase the number of names and addresses on their registry.
All this to say, I completely disagree with your take.
About money?!?
You know how I know you have no idea how our economy works?
Like people saying the vaccine is about money, I bet it’s a comforting thought. This isn’t little league evil, this is the big show.
You know how I know you have no idea how our economy works?
Like people saying the vaccine is about money, I bet it’s a comforting thought. This isn’t little league evil, this is the big show.
FWIW, I don’t disagree with any of the above.
Before anyone gets too worked up about what I said, I wholeheartedly agree with everything y’all are saying about it being overreach, excessive government control, and one more attempted denial of our rights.
But if they don’t care about the $200, and maybe I’m wrong and they don’t, but if they don’t care, why are they not allowing the trust option? Just seems weird, even for the ATF.
Wait, would it be a $200 transfer fee plus the tax stamp...or is the transfer fee the tax stamp?
What if you were already going to build a form 1 SBR can you not still do that?
I’m curious also as to what they say about engraving during this 120 free period? SBRs have to be engraved and I have not heard any mention of that so far...
Where did you cite this? I could not find if engraving was waived in the 293 page Rule.
I don’t remember. It might’ve been in their FAQ. I’ll look and post back when I find it.
FAQ item 27:
MARKINGS
• If the SBR equipped with a “stabilizing brace” is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker’s marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1.
MARKINGS
• If the SBR equipped with a “stabilizing brace” is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker’s marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1.
The $200 only matters as it pertains to you. Same with the wait and bureaucracy, they’re deterrents. They want you to throw it away, become prosecutable, or newly regulate millions of weapons. One of those videos estimated the number of braces in the 10s of millions, each one has become a hot potato. If you register, the number doubles.
Only applicable to the final rule! What’s the final rule?
Plot twist:
Federal court recently ruled it is unconstitutional to require serial numbers on guns.
Clown fucking world.
Federal court recently ruled it is unconstitutional to require serial numbers on guns.
Clown fucking world.
I mean WTF. The courts need to hear this before anyone does anything. This needs to be a priority.
Just what I want, an SBR with a pistol brace instead of a stock. 
If you register it you can do whatever you want with it.Just what I want, an SBR with a pistol brace instead of a stock.
Are we sure that is the case? Or are you registering a “pistol braced SBR?”
I find it hard to imagine the govt opening up a giant loophole to exploit. But, I’ve been wrong before…
They do say specifically, that once it's a SBR you can do as you please with the stock.
Snapping their fingers and converting between 10 & 40 million title 1 handguns into unregistered NFA items with the stroke of a pen is not something I would consider opening up a giant loophole.
Just what I want, an SBR with a pistol brace instead of a stock.
Yeah, and a $100 hot potato stock that you have to lock up, can’t sell, can’t put in your trust, and might get you prosecuted. Pretty sweet deal.
How’s it gonna get you prosecuted? So you are thinking this is entrapment? It’s crossed my mind..
But then you have the brace to contend with. It becomes "constructive possession", so if you have a true pistol, you’re placing yourself in danger.
As long as that’s the only AR you have, it probably won’t. But if you have pieces of them laying around, like I do, then you’re at the discretion of whoever is evaluating your property. It’s a bit of a loaded gun, pun intended.
Make everyone a criminal, then the feds can just prosecute whoever they choose.
They’re saying you can sell the brace itself. Who tf would buy it is another matter though.
I think the rule not allowing trusts (unless the trust already possesses the pistol) is because if they did, they’d have to allow the transfer from the individual to the trust. No different than a transfer from a gunshop to a buyer.
They have to prevent that if they want to limit the 120 day tax free grace period to already-owned firearms. They want to prevent guys from registering 20 new lowers each as SBRs during the 120 day grace period tax-free.
The biggest question I have after reading alot of this is what is a legal AR pistol? They say specifically they aren’t banning pistol braces, but under what circumstances can you have a brace on your pistol?
They have to prevent that if they want to limit the 120 day tax free grace period to already-owned firearms. They want to prevent guys from registering 20 new lowers each as SBRs during the 120 day grace period tax-free.
The biggest question I have after reading alot of this is what is a legal AR pistol? They say specifically they aren’t banning pistol braces, but under what circumstances can you have a brace on your pistol?
