- Thread starter Conrad101st
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I’d say 50% would be extremely optimistic on their part. Probably closer to 30%. A LOT have no idea this shit is even happening. Of those that do, I expect only a minority to comply. Just my WAG.
I'm sure a large majority don't even know about this ruling when it was first introduced earlier this month. My redneck cousins didn't know and they ain't gonna comply. Their county's sheriff won't enforce it.
but I do want to make one of mine into a free SBR.
I don't even think it will be more than about 3%.I'm sure a large majority don't even know about this ruling when it was first introduced earlier this month. My redneck cousins didn't know and they ain't gonna comply. Their county's sheriff won't enforce it.
but I do want to make one of mine into a free SBR.
The reason that I say that is when you talk with people about owning a suppressor, the majority of them will either object to the $200, which won't apply during the "amnesty." Or they will say something, "I don't want to be on any list or let the ATF know what I got."
That will be the response from most people that hear about this for the first time. When I tell some gun owners about this they look at me like my fly is open. They are clueless and think it will never happen.
So I think there will be massive non-compliance because of civil disobedience or ignorance of the ruling.
How many will comply is a math question.
Numbers are a bit sketchy, but here's a starting point.
If there are 30mm braces out there, owned by 15mm ppl, I'd guesstimate only 5mm ppl (1/3) might know of the ruling. Assume 20% compliance (of those 15mm owners).
That's about 1mm ppl. knowing that comply.
That's 2mm guns out of 30mm or 7%
Now ppl like me that might own one, well I'm already "on the list" as I have a pile of stamps. So it's 90 minutes of paperwork annoyance.
If it becomes an SBR, it'll probably get a decent stock, and if I owned one, it's get as much used as as the brace - which would be seldom as I own stamped SBR's, plus crap that is way, way cooler.
Moving on past the math (which I've mastered btw), is the civil rights issue on standing your ground. I don't imagine that the few owners that understand the situation will put up a fight on this. Most thought the ATF let one get by them.
If the ATF has any standing, most brace owners have recognized that this was an oversight by the ATF and it will not be a call to arms.
The real trap is the brace being a stamped item, and by you not stamping it, and you (later) being found in possession of one- At their mercy.
IMHO, I would wait 60 days and see what the courts rule - past that I wouldn't have a liability over a $1500 DD4. I would have sold it, registered it, or made it legal without registration.
FWIW, I'm 60 yo. The benefit at this age is that I can do what I want, my kids are successfully on their own - I can do what is right.
We should start a new thread for doing what is right.
Numbers are a bit sketchy, but here's a starting point.
If there are 30mm braces out there, owned by 15mm ppl, I'd guesstimate only 5mm ppl (1/3) might know of the ruling. Assume 20% compliance (of those 15mm owners).
That's about 1mm ppl. knowing that comply.
That's 2mm guns out of 30mm or 7%
Now ppl like me that might own one, well I'm already "on the list" as I have a pile of stamps. So it's 90 minutes of paperwork annoyance.
If it becomes an SBR, it'll probably get a decent stock, and if I owned one, it's get as much used as as the brace - which would be seldom as I own stamped SBR's, plus crap that is way, way cooler.
Moving on past the math (which I've mastered btw), is the civil rights issue on standing your ground. I don't imagine that the few owners that understand the situation will put up a fight on this. Most thought the ATF let one get by them.
If the ATF has any standing, most brace owners have recognized that this was an oversight by the ATF and it will not be a call to arms.
The real trap is the brace being a stamped item, and by you not stamping it, and you (later) being found in possession of one- At their mercy.
IMHO, I would wait 60 days and see what the courts rule - past that I wouldn't have a liability over a $1500 DD4. I would have sold it, registered it, or made it legal without registration.
FWIW, I'm 60 yo. The benefit at this age is that I can do what I want, my kids are successfully on their own - I can do what is right.
We should start a new thread for doing what is right.
Agreed, right around 3% will comply, especially if historical trends of non-compliance to anti-gun state laws continue.
you didn't get the survey that went around in December? they asked if we still owned any guns or had gotten rid of them. I said that I turned them all in at the last buyback program.read in an article this morning that the ATF believes that this won’t effect many because there is only 826,000 gun owners.
*no longer on the radar*
so, LGS today told me TODAY, that everyone that has a gun with a brace on pawn, can't get them back without the proper paperwork from ATF.
LGS will be held accountable if someone pays off their firearm and trys to get brace back. Hell, they can't even hold the gun while a person slaps a pistol buffer on it. nope, ATF says that's a no go.
Must have paperwork $$$
LGS will be held accountable if someone pays off their firearm and trys to get brace back. Hell, they can't even hold the gun while a person slaps a pistol buffer on it. nope, ATF says that's a no go.
Must have paperwork $$$
What if you for some that will do the forms, if they have multiple braced guns. Can you send several forms in one packet or do they need to be individually mailed???
From the eForms FAQ:
· FD-258 Fingerprint Card Submission - The applicant will receive a cover letter after submission that will indicate where they need to send the fingerprint cards. The cover letter and fingerprint cards must be sent together in one packet. If there are multiple Responsible Persons found on the application, they all must consolidate their cards into one packet and submit the bundle together along with the cover letter. The address to where the fingerprint cards and cover letter need to be sent is found on the cover letter itself.
· One set of fingerprint cards may be sent for multiple applications if all applicable cover letters are compiled into the same envelope with the FD-258 cards.
· FD-258 Fingerprint Card Submission - The applicant will receive a cover letter after submission that will indicate where they need to send the fingerprint cards. The cover letter and fingerprint cards must be sent together in one packet. If there are multiple Responsible Persons found on the application, they all must consolidate their cards into one packet and submit the bundle together along with the cover letter. The address to where the fingerprint cards and cover letter need to be sent is found on the cover letter itself.
· One set of fingerprint cards may be sent for multiple applications if all applicable cover letters are compiled into the same envelope with the FD-258 cards.
If you're an FFL you've probably already watched this seminar live yesterday.
Boebert called them out on the floor.
Dude my thought completely. I was like fuck the Feds, but wait free tax stamp? I talked to my lawyer he said wait on it. Some are saying you can't do a trust and it has to be individual only. Even if you're the only one on the trust. I always wanted to SBR my scorpion.I'm sure a large majority don't even know about this ruling when it was first introduced earlier this month. My redneck cousins didn't know and they ain't gonna comply. Their county's sheriff won't enforce it.
but I do want to make one of mine into a free SBR.
You can do it as a Eform 1 Trust if a Trust already owns it.
Can somebody test something for me if you DON'T have Adobe Acrobat Pro? Open up the Responsible Person's Questionnaire (link below) from the ATF's website and add some info (Joe Smith or whatever) to a couple of the boxes on the 1st page. Then scroll down to sheet 5 and see if the same info is duplicated? I have Adobe Reader only and my info does NOT duplicate until sheet 5.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...person-questionnaire-atf-form-532023/download
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...person-questionnaire-atf-form-532023/download
So I guess 90% of you are registering or have already done so...two days in. Sad.
Keep in mind, people who are considering registering something through this, that the ATF does not have the legal authority to grant you any kind of immunity from prosecution. They can say they won't be after you -- but that wouldn't stop any number of venues from coming after you. This is going to be a honey pot for names of self-confessed criminals.
The ATF is alleging a crime, you are agreeing it is a crime and confessing to committing that crime by going through their registration scheme.
It's not worth saving a couple hundred, or even a couple thousand dollars. If you want a registered SBR just register an SBR -- and pay the $200 in leu of admitting a violation of the NFA.
Imagine if the IRS decides to dip into this and claim the free registrations as unclaimed income.
There are soooo many unknowns and about a 0.000001% chance this law can withstand judicial scrutiny. Just, no. Anytime the ATF is offering something and you're thinking maybe that's a good thing -- it's not a good thing.
The ATF is alleging a crime, you are agreeing it is a crime and confessing to committing that crime by going through their registration scheme.
It's not worth saving a couple hundred, or even a couple thousand dollars. If you want a registered SBR just register an SBR -- and pay the $200 in leu of admitting a violation of the NFA.
Imagine if the IRS decides to dip into this and claim the free registrations as unclaimed income.
There are soooo many unknowns and about a 0.000001% chance this law can withstand judicial scrutiny. Just, no. Anytime the ATF is offering something and you're thinking maybe that's a good thing -- it's not a good thing.
I didn't think of it that way. Good point. I've always wanted the actually CZ sbr stock for the scorpion. If I registered it I sure as hell wouldn't keep the brace. I was just thinking if this was a loophole to get around paying the SBR tax. Part of me just wants to say fuck it and run the stock regardless but I live in Colorado which seems to be ok with doing drugs, and buying rainbow colored dildos. Gun stuff here is retarded.
Personally, I'd wait six months before I did anything NFA. The NFA can't withstand scrutiny under Bruen and the ATF is trying to force the courts to decide on the NFA and GCA right now, right, right now.
The way I see it, either Congress is going to come together and pull SBRs and Silencers off the NFA to avoid the courts reviewing those laws or the courts are going to review those laws and unravel parts of all of them. Of course, there's a third option which is that the courts allow the infringement, which I personally think is unlikely to occur.
I would not be betting on that third option unless Thomas has a sudden heart attack, in bed, while on vacation. That's what happened to the last Justice that pushed to restore the 2a rights of Americans. Keep in mind here we're already a decade+ into a body of work that Justice Scalia started, they killed him for it (my opinion), and now Thomas has picked up the torch and decided to carry it.
That's not the only torch the man is carrying, either. He is a giant, and make no mistake every single other justice on that court is a coward. So if Thomas goes -- the rein of tyrants will be restored.
I agree on all of this. It definitely looks like NFA is about to get a beat down of some sort.
Y’all have more faith than I do of people doing the right thing. I don’t know what’s gonna happen but I’m not discounting the 3rd option becoming a reality. Im also not discounting a 4th option if mostly nobody registering anything. Of course if this thread is any indication then it seems most likely will. No matter what happens, the issue that chaps me most is how many have already bent the knee, two days in. Literally two days in. If you want to register then fine but at least give it a bit of time first and not be a complete pussy. With that said, I don’t know if you should or should not be worried about admitting to a crime and the ATF coming after you. On one hand there is a law that says you cannot be prosecuted via entrapment nor can you self incriminate yourself, on the other hand, it seems like the ones that should be upholding the law have become pretty lawless themselves. On that note, it might be best, as you said, not to admit to anything and just register as you normally would if you want an SBR, being the grey man here may be best. However, it’s important to note that they didn’t prosecute anyone after 1968 for the GCA, but that was also a totally different time and government.
Just like the sheep here who got the clot shots, because they were told to......once a sheep always a sheep......
And these are the sheep that would turn you in to the ATF without blinking an eye...
Doc
Ok, so I have questions. If you went the conventional route and pay the $200.00 to register your braced pistol, can you do that in six months, a year or whenever you feel like it?
If they ask, was it a braced pistol in the past what do you say? Do you say it was just a 10.5 upper you have? What if you had bought and 4473'd a lower at roughly the same time to put it on and listed it as an 'Other' instead of 'rifle' reciever?
If they ask, was it a braced pistol in the past what do you say? Say nothing or just say "no it wasn't". Don't incriminate yourself.
Do you say it was just a 10.5 upper you have? Say nothing unless you're adding barrel info on box 4c on Form 1.
What if you had bought and 4473'd a lower at roughly the same time to put it on and listed it as an 'Other' instead of 'rifle' receiver? Doesn't matter. It's the firearm of where ever you have the brace on.
Thanks for the quick reply. If you do have a lower that was checked as 'Other' on the 4473 can you still use that?
Does it have to be a re classed as a 'rifle' lower?
And do you have to engrave it as you would if you just bought, lets say a 10.5 upper from BCM, with the original intent of building an SBR?
can you still use that? Yes.
Does it have to be a re classed as a 'rifle' lower? IF you comply with this new brace ruling during this 120 day bull shit amnesty it WILL be now called a rifle.
do you have to engrave it as you would if you just bought, lets say a 10.5 upper from BCM, with the original intent of building an SBR? IF you comply during this 120 day bullshit amnesty you do NOT have to engrave it UNLESS it was one of those 80% type of lowers.
Who is that person with the patch over his eye and what has he done with Dan Crenshaw?
To be fair, some of the people speaking actually do care about the 2a.
But, yeah, it's theater.
Boebert's boobs aren't BS.
Dan Crenshaw couldn't give 2 fucks about your 2A rights. He is a self serving pos riding a veteran tag that people think means he is a conservative. I served with a shit ton of liberal fucks.
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Couple questions:
1. If this is stomped by the SCOTUS are they going to destroy all the register paperwork?
2. Can someone provide the definition of a right?
3. Why isn’t the SCOTUS going all gang busters like if it was a ruling concerning gay “rights”?
4. What if the Ayy Tee Eff decides to change the rules in 2 years?
R
1. If this is stomped by the SCOTUS are they going to destroy all the register paperwork?
2. Can someone provide the definition of a right?
3. Why isn’t the SCOTUS going all gang busters like if it was a ruling concerning gay “rights”?
4. What if the Ayy Tee Eff decides to change the rules in 2 years?
R
Couple questions:
1. If this is stomped by the SCOTUS are they going to destroy all the register paperwork? Don't bet on it.
2. Can someone provide the definition of a right? Read the Federalist Papers. It should be a requirement for free Americans.
3. Why isn’t the SCOTUS going all gang busters like if it was a ruling concerning gay “rights”? Like gay rights, it has to percolate up to SCOTUS. They have to be presented with something before they can rule on it,
4. What if the Ayy Tee Eff decides to change the rules in 2 years? If it gets to SCOTUS, the ruling will be "They can't change the rules" ala West Virginia vs. EPA where they said EPA can't make law through an administrative processes. Only Congress can make laws. Executive agencies making law through publishing rules violates the separation of powers.
1. If this is stomped by the SCOTUS are they going to destroy all the register paperwork? Don't bet on it.
2. Can someone provide the definition of a right? Read the Federalist Papers. It should be a requirement for free Americans.
3. Why isn’t the SCOTUS going all gang busters like if it was a ruling concerning gay “rights”? Like gay rights, it has to percolate up to SCOTUS. They have to be presented with something before they can rule on it,
4. What if the Ayy Tee Eff decides to change the rules in 2 years? If it gets to SCOTUS, the ruling will be "They can't change the rules" ala West Virginia vs. EPA where they said EPA can't make law through an administrative processes. Only Congress can make laws. Executive agencies making law through publishing rules violates the separation of powers.
Some/all of these question I may already know the answer.
I may have proposed them to induce thought.
R
The Feds never destroy anything, unless Hillary tells them to.
They have all the names of the hit team that killed Kennedy, who altered the body and death car and who put it together.
I have combat mil relatives who are libtarded to the moon, marching with BLM and other stupid shit, just because someone was in doesn't automatically make them right wing.
