Play stupid games... win stupid prizes...


It is... would have been so easy to comply. Now he is probably dead.... (trying to confirm now). And three officers lives/careers are changed forever. For no good reason.

Because the dude could have simply complied and the courts would have probably given him a slap on the wrist and a talking-to and a donut... instead, he gets shot. And FUBAR's everyone's day. Especially his own.

The shame is that the moron could have been just fine... at least physically. Maybe some jail time? Maybe a fine? Maybe a warning? Instead, he had to go Wyatt Earp. The only way to win in that situation.... was simply comply and take a ride 'downtown' and let a public defender... sort it all out.

Moron... Got what he asked for. It is a shame.

Sirhr
 
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It is... would have been so easy to comply. Now he is probably dead.... (trying to confirm now). And three officers lives/careers are changed forever. For no good reason.

Because the dude could have simply complied and the courts would have probably given him a slap on the wrist and a talking-to and a donut... instead, he gets shot. And FUBAR's everyone's day. Especially his own.

The shame is that the moron could have been just fine... at least physically. Maybe some jail time? Maybe a fine? Maybe a warning? Instead, he had to go Wyatt Earp. The only way to win in that situation.... was simply comply and take a ride 'downtown' and let a public defender... sort it all out.

Moron... Got what he asked for. It is a shame.

Sirhr
As you said, he had so many chances to live...and chose to die. No way he survived that many rounds.
 
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The officers were very clear on what they wanted him to do.

He was very clearly NOT following orders. He was defiant in an indefensible position. The officers were all JUST in what they did, as far as I'm concerned. I'm glad the officers are able to go home tonight.

It's unfortunate, but if this were to happen to more scumbags more often, then maybe... just maybe... the rest will start to learn and think and change their ways.

You know, like training a puppy. Just most puppies (all?) don't need to learn the capitol way. Puppies are smarter, that way.
 
As you said, he had so many chances to live...and chose to die. No way he survived that many rounds.

He'll survive no doubt. I've seen worse at work up here in a Detroit OR.

Its also a known medical fact that the more useless you are and the less you contribute to a productive society the more physical harm you can take and still survive.
 
Obviously my post above was my lame attempt at humor, but I do have a serious question regarding not following a cop's orders.

Shooting the guy for not following orders was justified once the gun was drawn and the cops felt their lives were in danger. Makes perfect sense. However, what about someone who gets shot for not following orders and they're clearly unarmed. How is not following orders by itself a threat to a cop's life? And don't give me any bullshit about a cop doesn't know if a person is armed or not, I'm talking about when it's perfectly clear they're unarmed and the cops know it, but shoot them anyways for not following orders.
 
^^That is why they Tazed him first. When the gun was reached for and held, all bets are off. Had he not reached for the gun, his injury would have been darts.
 
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Obviously my post above was my lame attempt at humor, but I do have a serious question regarding not following a cop's orders.

Shooting the guy for not following orders was justified once the gun was drawn and the cops felt their lives were in danger. Makes perfect sense. However, what about someone who gets shot for not following orders and they're clearly unarmed. How is not following orders by itself a threat to a cop's life? And don't give me any bullshit about a cop doesn't know if a person is armed or not, I'm talking about when it's perfectly clear they're unarmed and the cops know it, but shoot them anyways for not following orders.

Every OIS is unique in its own way which is why they are scrutinized individually. Not following a cops orders is actually a fairly common, we encounter it nearly every day, especially those that are intoxicated or under the influence of narcotics. Most of theses situations end without any injury or death and we just have to utilize other tools (verbal judo, tazer, hands, baton, pepper spray, etc.). I go hands on with people fairly regularly because lets face it, no one really want to get arrested. Last week alone I had to fight a drunk driver after they fled the scene of an injury accident, a guy who threatened his wife with a knife and had the "my home my rules' mentality when I showed up, and then had to forcibly extract someone from a vehicle when their warrants were confirmed that they were trying to conceal their dope instead of complying with commands. It happens all the time.

There is usually always some sort of other trigger or action that accompanies also not following orders that lead to a shooting. For example, A police officer has someone at gunpoint in a stolen car. They are telling the person to put their hands on the steering wheel, gun is drawn. Violator is not really following orders, but the cop can see his hands. He suddenly reaches his hand down toward the door pocket where the cop can't see and a location that is extremely common for storing a firearm in the vehicle. Or maybe he then reaches up under his shirt to his waistband. Or down to the floorboard, etc. etc.

Its always a hard choice. Yes, he could be reaching to conceal dope, or maybe is just freaking out, or maybe is trying to show the officer something. But the call has to be made to either wait to see what unknown object he is going to produce and risk getting shot (action vs. reaction), or to shoot and risk shooting someone reaching for his wallet.

In the end, the vast majority of shootings are justified, and you actually hear about very little of them because most of the time its obviously a good shoot, and most do not end in death. Like this one where he tries to shoot the officers after they try to subdue him utilizing clear verbal commands and a tazer. Sometimes its just a tragic, impossible situation and life and death decisions are being made in less than a second with no time to weigh each option and the outcome. Then the decision will be scrutinized after the fact, sometimes by thousands of people who have weeks to hear all the facts and able to think clearly from the safety of their living rooms.

Deadly force is always tragic, however, sometimes necessary and unavoidable.
 
Every OIS is unique in its own way which is why they are scrutinized individually. Not following a cops orders is actually a fairly common, we encounter it nearly every day, especially those that are intoxicated or under the influence of narcotics. Most of theses situations end without any injury or death and we just have to utilize other tools (verbal judo, tazer, hands, baton, pepper spray, etc.). I go hands on with people fairly regularly because lets face it, no one really want to get arrested. Last week alone I had to fight a drunk driver after they fled the scene of an injury accident, a guy who threatened his wife with a knife and had the "my home my rules' mentality when I showed up, and then had to forcibly extract someone from a vehicle when their warrants were confirmed that they were trying to conceal their dope instead of complying with commands. It happens all the time.

There is usually always some sort of other trigger or action that accompanies also not following orders that lead to a shooting. For example, A police officer has someone at gunpoint in a stolen car. They are telling the person to put their hands on the steering wheel, gun is drawn. Violator is not really following orders, but the cop can see his hands. He suddenly reaches his hand down toward the door pocket where the cop can't see and a location that is extremely common for storing a firearm in the vehicle. Or maybe he then reaches up under his shirt to his waistband. Or down to the floorboard, etc. etc.

Its always a hard choice. Yes, he could be reaching to conceal dope, or maybe is just freaking out, or maybe is trying to show the officer something. But the call has to be made to either wait to see what unknown object he is going to produce and risk getting shot (action vs. reaction), or to shoot and risk shooting someone reaching for his wallet.

In the end, the vast majority of shootings are justified, and you actually hear about very little of them because most of the time its obviously a good shoot, and most do not end in death. Like this one where he tries to shoot the officers after they try to subdue him utilizing clear verbal commands and a tazer. Sometimes its just a tragic, impossible situation and life and death decisions are being made in less than a second with no time to weigh each option and the outcome. Then the decision will be scrutinized after the fact, sometimes by thousands of people who have weeks to hear all the facts and able to think clearly from the safety of their living rooms.

Deadly force is always tragic, however, sometimes necessary and unavoidable.

With all respect, fuck, it just aint that difficult to follow a simple command. Wehn Ive gotten stopped for a traffic violation I ALWAYS have my DL in one hand and insurance and registration in the other...clearly visible to the officer. If its at night I snap the dome light on, and again ALWAYS have the seat and floorboard clear. I cant swear to it but Im fsure that Ive gotten warnings rather than tickets because of it.

Wehn 3 men have a gun on you how much sense does it take to not reach for it.

As to his survival, if he does the 3 cops should get a reprimand for poor marksmanship. At that distance he should have been dead meat.
 
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[QUOTE="Maggot, post: 6933424, member: 12471" As to his survival, if he does the 3 cops should get a reprimand for fucking marksmanship. At that distance he should have been dead meat.[/QUOTE]

Marksmanship? Hell that kind of marksmanship is NYPD level. Had there been any citizens anywhere in the area they'd be dead and the perp just grazed if at all.
 
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its not in the American nature to follow commands. why were you stopped, were you a danger to others or was the cop looking to collect money from you via a ticket? This shooting was justified, although a little sloppy procedure and mediocre marksmanship from my untrained eye. Gray Squirrel seems to not be a pussy so he doesnt go for the gun as a first option and scream like a girl, I think he is abnormal vs the go home at all costs no matter how bad a shoot I have to do scaredy cat shit. Hope the perp lives and the cops get trained a bit and they get a few days off to thnk things through.

With all respect, fuck, it just aint that difficult to follow a simple command. Wehn Ive gotten stopped for a traffic violation I ALWAYS have my DL in one hand and insurance and registration in the other...clearly visible to the officer. If its at night I snap the dome light on, and again ALWAYS have the seat and floorboard clear. I cant swear to it but Im fsure that Ive gotten warnings rather than tickets because of it.

Wehn 3 men have a gun on you how much sense does it take to not reach for it.

As to his survival, if he does the 3 cops should get a reprimand for fucking marksmanship. At that distance he should have been dead meat.
 
its not in the American nature to follow commands. why were you stopped, were you a danger to others or was the cop looking to collect money from you via a ticket? This shooting was justified, although a little sloppy procedure and mediocre marksmanship from my untrained eye. Gray Squirrel seems to not be a pussy so he doesnt go for the gun as a first option and scream like a girl, I think he is abnormal vs the go home at all costs no matter how bad a shoot I have to do scaredy cat shit. Hope the perp lives and the cops get trained a bit and they get a few days off to thnk things through.

I was stopped because I was 5 minutes off of 3 days on the interstate and got clocked at 66 or so in a 50 zone. That night he let me go with a warning.

I tend to agree that its not in our American nature to obey commands but at a point 'reason' should kick in. Or maybe thats part of the problem.
 
Gray Squirrel seems to not be a pussy so he doesnt go for the gun as a first option and scream like a girl, I think he is abnormal vs the go home at all costs no matter how bad a shoot I have to do scaredy cat shit.

Awwwww, that’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me, lol. I credit 8 years in the army with multiple deployments for that. After that experience, it takes a lot to get me rattled. I honestly would say I’m not abnormal for the department I work for. I work with a pretty solid set of people, that also happen to be cops. But every department is independent of the next, we aren’t all the same for sure.

In all seriousness, there’s a lot that goes into this job that normal people just don’t know, even I didn’t prior to pinning on a badge. Some days it seems impossible and others you get to do some really great things for great people. I literally have gone from helping an old woman change a tire on the side of the highway to being in a foot chase with vehicle burglary suspects within the same hour. Cops aren’t out to get people, we’re just trying to make an impossible job seem achievable. Sometimes that endeavor doesn’t look pretty...