Hey Pat, we go back almost a decade on various forums & I respect your opinion. Here in TX the police are literally robbing people of their possessions on the side of the road through civil forfeiture. Congress is looking into the matter and I'm hopeful that it will stop soon.
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Hey Pat, we go back almost a decade on various forums & I respect your opinion. Here in TX the police are literally robbing people of their possessions on the side of the road through civil forfeiture. Congress is looking into the matter and I'm hopeful that it will stop soon.
I am serious I have the freedom to do what I want and I have not seen any significant changes as the result of the war on drugs or terror other than a longer wait at the airport.
Pat
If they are out of line I hope it is delt with as well. That is what the system of checks and balances is for. As a police officer I know my accountability to the public has gone up greatly from when I started 15 years ago.
Pat
Cops have no right to take anything from anybody until they are convicted of a crime. Cheap excuse - it's ok because most of the time we think the person is guilty of something. PROVE IT in a court of law. Until then you are stealing. no ifs ands or buts. You are a crook.
Funding - deal with it, you don't get to break the law because you're underfunded. That's exactly what criminals do.
Actually the laws are what allows us to seize things. Its not just us taking things nor is it an excuse. If you don't like it contact your congressman. We simply work under the laws we are charged with upholding. Stealing or theft is defined quite differently under the criminal code. As for funding we are dealing with it and when funding is low and their are legal means for departments to increase their funding through seizures allowed under the law they are going to do it. Again don't like it voice your opinion and concern to your elected officials. If you are out numbered then live with the law. Just the way things work. It sounds like you don't have a firm grasp of the law and are simply stating your opinion of how you think things should be as the law.
Pat
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The above reasoning is the cause of a growing divide between cops and citizens. No matter how stupid or unfair or out of control the law gets, most cops in the end are going to say " it's just the way things work". Yeah we know that. We also know government is growing beyond our power to control and you openly admit you don't care you will just do what the law allows you to get away with and if we don't like it, we can just live with it.
We will see how well that works out for you as the law gets worse or guns become illegal. Cops around here are outnumbered 900 to 1. We allow them to do what they do because we still have some measure of respect for them. When that respect is finally used up things will change one way or the other. You would do well to helps us prevent it from getting to that point by using your own sense of morality and fairness now before it gets to that point. You don't have to seize something just because the law allows you to, you still have your own judgment and discretion you can use to maintain the respect of the people you serve.
Unfortunately, we have no "say" in PA, as we have a set of laws on the books that makes it illegal to resist the police, no matter what they do or however unlawful it is. We're not even accorded the basic right of self-preservation. Can you see where this might create a certain paranoia, or do you simply see such a set of circumstances as the price one should pay to live and pay taxes?
The time to resist police is not on the street it is in the court room. The problem with laws making resistance allowed is most dumb asses don't know what is legal force and what is not. The best thing for everyone is to comply in the field with the arrest and then deal with it in court later. If your in the right it will shake out in your favor and no one gets hurt.
Pat
Next month the documents will most likely show the Attorney General of this United States (top law position in this country) was involved in aiding the Mexican drug cartels with firearms that resulted in the killing of Americans. Couple that with the all of the latest convicted police criminal brutality, abuse of civil forfeiture, NSA collusion with police agencies lying to federal judges in states such as Florida, the largest prison system in human history, and the militarization of police departments around the country I am sure anyone can understand that for those of us who are law abiding & never had a run in with the law -ever - are getting a little tired of the erosion of civil liberties & increased police state.
Even those of us who are big time supporters of law enforcement are finding it difficult to go along with this agenda any further. Many of us have morals and those are being challenged in the face of seemingly progressive tyranny. Denial only lasts for so long.
Even those of us who are big time supporters of law enforcement are finding it difficult to go along with this agenda any further. Many of us have morals and those are being challenged in the face of seemingly progressive tyranny. Denial only lasts for so long.
In the day and age of instance media notification things can look a lot worse than they actually are. There are instances of bad conduct and outright criminal conduct by police but taken as a whole the percentage is very very low. As for the militarization of police we are fighting criminals who are getting more and more sophisticated. Do you expect me to face a criminal gang armed with AK's with a revolver and a pump shotgun still? Sorry but there is a place for certain military equipment and training in our line of work no matter how unpopular it is.
And that's not a personal attack on those that serve in the police force. But we all have a choice where we work and who we work for and what we do for a living. Once I worked for a company after the military that changed over the course of several years. It began with fleecing bailouts from the tax payers, sending jobs overseas with tax payer money, and then changing the entire business model to get more bailout money. I had a hard time working for this company and now I no longer work for them. Stating that I am just working here doesn't cut the mustard as I had to own the fact I was working to reach the goals of an unscrupulous organization no matter who I was as a person. I think a man in his lifetime needs to decide where his morals & personal obligations truly reside because you can't work at a dump and not stink at the end of the shift no matter how many times you showered before work.
I agree and if I was ever ordered to do something I could not live I would quit or simply refuse to follow the order and live with the consequences. I will say that I am glad I am 5 years from being able to retire. The new guys are going to have it a lot harder than me. With the public not wanting to pay good wages, wanting to curtail our ability to do our job to the 9th degree and while at the same time expecting us to do a good job. Something is going to have to give.
Pat
For me personally, we have had a few investigations solved by private citizen security cameras. While we canvas the area during the investigation, and we notice a camera, we go to the homeowner and say "Hey, we notice you have a camera that faces "X" direction. If you have a few minutes, can you review your footage and let us know if you notice anything out of the ordinary? Here's my card. Call me when you get a chance to look at your system" 99.9999999% of the time I get "Sure", or "Hang on a minute and I'll check" or even "Give me a thumb drive and I'll copy the whole drive for you". A few times I've been told "It doesn't work. It's just for show/deterrent".
I can see people's reluctance for us to have access to their private systems. Hell, I would as well. We have one apartment complex that gives us a direct feed link, and all tenants are advised in the rental agreement, as well as LARGE notices at the entrance to each building, that there are cameras constantly recording. Do we sit around and watch them? Nope. If there's a disturbance, fight, yada yada yada, we pull up the feed and hit the rewind button.
I can see people's reluctance for us to have access to their private systems. Hell, I would as well. We have one apartment complex that gives us a direct feed link, and all tenants are advised in the rental agreement, as well as LARGE notices at the entrance to each building, that there are cameras constantly recording. Do we sit around and watch them? Nope. If there's a disturbance, fight, yada yada yada, we pull up the feed and hit the rewind button.
When you have whack jobs shooting cops outside of police stations its time to step it up a notch. With respect this is not just your country its mine too.
Pat
I don't believe that the use of military equipment is the problem but rather how they are deployed. There is definitely a time and a place for military equipment. Rolling around in a Humvee on patrol no. But using a armored vehicle to rescue insured officers or citizens in a kill zone then yes. I agree that we need to close the divide and I don't like see the us vs them mentality going on and frankly both sides (cops and non cops) are equally at fault.
Pat
Pat
THIS. A MILLION TIMES THIS. Some agencies roll them out for career day at schools or community events. At my school, we have a guy from the "other side" of the bridge that shows up with his SWAT gear, bomb robot, etc. He sets his table up next to mine and lays out weapons, gear, the whole shebang. My table is handouts, coloring books, crayons, "tickets" kids can give their parents for not wearing seatbelts, plastic badges, you get the idea. I ask him every year "You know this is an Elementary School, I have all the same shit, and there's a reason I don't lay it out, right?" He just shrugs his shoulders.
I bet you can't.
Oooh....wait for it...
"Most of the people here who have a problem with cops have an arrest record."
I appreciate that, and you oughta know it so I am saying it right now we are depending on guys that will think for themselves. If your ability to catch bad guys is curtailed by law that protects our freedom and privacy then that of course isn't your fault, and the public is often ignorant enough or shortsighted enough not to understand that. We live in an era where people demand their cake and eat it to, well, like you say something has to give. I just don't want it to be liberty that gives.
I have said before on these pages, and I'll say it again now, that the way we recruit, train, and retain police officers in this country does a real disservice to the officer and the public alike. I know it is a tough job, sometimes a dangerous one, and certainly a stressful one balancing the law and catching criminals. My thought is this:think about how we train military officers. We have 4 year service academies. We are very selective in recruitment, pay good wages, and have continual education and training that is as well funded as can be expected these days. We put a LOT of money and effort into those who fight and lead those who will fight so they will be competent at the use of force but the kicker is none of these people will ever use force against our own citizens. Doesn't it stand to reason we would want an even higher standard of training and pay and benefits for the very people who are tasked to use force on our own people? I don't get it. Police officers are where the rubber meets the road in the real life application of the Constitution. They are in many cases the only face of the government some people will see and yet many departments, if not most, struggle with recruiting and retaining quality people who are there for the right reasons because the job is hard and the benefits aren't what they should be. The way it is now, you get some guys that are real saints because they really do want to serve and protect the public despite the poor conditions and you get the rest who get off on having some power over others. I look at guys I knew from high school who became cops and I know which one they are. You deserve better, and so do we.
If I could have it my way, our country would have long ago established academies publicly funded like military service academies, the entry process would be at least as competitive, and the pay at least as good, and the focus would be upholding the law, with in depth training on the Constitution and how police are really the ones that uphold it and protect it and ensure it lives at the street level more so than the military. I would educate the public that the crime rate is a function of the quality of the local population instead of a reflection of the quality of the police. I would de-link police from politics as much as possible by ensuring that no police officer ever works at the pleasure of a politician like many chiefs of police, making them tools of the government instead of servants of the people. Instead I'd have them serve under a sheriff or chief that is promoted internally from within, because the officers know who is a good cop and who isn't but I'd have the safety measure of having that chief subject to removal by the public if circumstances warrant it.
I know all that is pie in the sky, but I wish that were the way it was. We would have better police and more liberty and our tax dollars spent on that would actually gain us something instead of being wasted on the latest stupid cause.
I appreciate where you are coming from. Can't say I disagree with the idea. The sad fact is, taxes are high in my area. Especially in the towns. We have folks come to our office and ask why there aren't more officers on the street. We tell them that the tax base would have to increase by 350% to hire one more officer. They quickly respond with "I'm not paying more taxes!". We have to explain that if they are unwilling to pay more taxes, we are unable to hire more officers.
Where I live out in the county, the taxes are lower, but you are gonna wait 30-45 minutes to see a cop (if you call for one). I don't even see them on my road unless they are on their way to a call. I fully understood that when I chose to live in the sticks.
That might make many of us prohibited persons. Kind of funny, given the purpose of this forum, don't you think?
ever heard of CCTV? same shit different day. i dont need to be monitored to and from the bathroom because people are scared of living in reality. fuck that shit. 
I thought it was a poor slob that went out for a smoke while under martial law that found the bomber, his thanks is they shot the shit out of his boat with a one sided firefight and still didnt kill the bad guy, missed him with 300+ bullets from less than 10 yards away. What a fiasco, you really should pick a better example to support your argument which btw I dont agree with.
The video from business in the down town area where the marathon was ending is what led to identifying the bombs so the poor slob would even know to call the police. You really should learn your facts before you correct someone. Lol
Pat
That is a well thought out post. I wish some of your views were reality. Again I am glad I am close to getting out vs getting in.
Pat
I know my facts, the cops with the video couldn't find them or apprehend them when they did run into them, hell, one poor guy was shot dead by these bastards after they knew who they were. It was Joe citizen that led to the apprehension not the video. You need to learn what a fact is.
And another thing, these two fkrs were already on the FBI's radar, they should have been deported long before this happened. I really feel bad for that campus cop that was murdered without warning, very very sad and should have never happened.
And another thing, these two fkrs were already on the FBI's radar, they should have been deported long before this happened. I really feel bad for that campus cop that was murdered without warning, very very sad and should have never happened.
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355sigfan - you seem like the kind of guy everyone would like to just hang out with and maybe barbecue some steaks. Or not.
I wish you the best either way. Hopefully they pay you well to do whatever it is that you do for a living.
I wish you the best either way. Hopefully they pay you well to do whatever it is that you do for a living.
My plan for now is to retire from law enforcement in 5 years with 20 on and then move to Arizona and find a job as a firearms instructor at a range or something similar. I heard Prescott Arizona is nice. I just want to be some place I can shoot three gun and USPSA year round.
Pat
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