PortaJohn

Not necessarily. The realized rate of return depends on several factors:
1. The length of time it has been put into a 401K vs the real inflation rate. The longer, the lower the real return. This is especially true in the 2000s.
2. What the 401K is invested in. Whatever it is invested in will determine the actual return, which then still gets eaten away by inflation.
3. Investment losses, which do happen.
4. Any premature withdrawals, which usually have to be paid back with interest.
5. Taxes. Traditional 401K's are taxed as regular income at retirement while only the employer contribution is taxed in a Roth 401K since you contribution is post-taxation.
6. The actual matching by the employer. This can be variable, based on the company, and is optional.
7. Maximum yearly contribution ceilings.

401K's are not a panacea and it must be remembered that this money is effectively tied up until retirement within the financial sector of the economy. Taxes, inflation and risk eat away at the return and most people never consider these aspects, never realizing that the rate of return they think they are getting is higher than what they actually receive.
The point is people say "I will make my own investments for retirements", but they do not - not a question of return. Like them or hate them - IRA/401k participation is proof that average Americans choose to not make retirement savings a priority.
 
unless they cheat, and you know they will....

SzJ5BGiO0tEW.png
 
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** A quick reminder - esp with Gaetz / Smollet / ICBMS and silly mayors - most of this is for show. We really won't know what's what for at least 3 months.
Federal aid to Denver stops in 3... 2... 1...
 
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Looks like the Trump Vance train will continue in 2028./k just because people don't want Whitmer, Newsome, or Pritzker doesn't mean they might not fall prey to a Joshua Shapiro or other candidate..
We shall see. If the economy gets better, Vance will win against anyone. If it get worse well you know what happens then.
 
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** A quick reminder - esp with Gaetz / Smollet / ICBMS and silly mayors - most of this is for show. We really won't know what's what for at least 3 months.
Asshole. I hope his family suffers a tragedy from an illegal. Shitty to say but Fuck Him, he doesn't give a shit about his citizens so Fuck Him. And I hope he lives until he is 100 regretting every minute.
 
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** A quick reminder - esp with Gaetz / Smollet / ICBMS and silly mayors - most of this is for show. We really won't know what's what for at least 3 months.
Imprison his ass in the same dungeon as the Jan 6 detainees, at least four years.
 
You are not listening. The immediate return is there, but time fucks it all up. Even money markets are not insulated - they lose money over time as they are almost always lower than the inflation rate. Safe, yes, but that safety comes at a lower yield which gets eaten away by inflation over time and taxes. Money market funds forego risk and create guaranteed savings erosion over time. Inflation erodes all fiat money over time, that's how this entire world economy works. That's how debt is paid off with cheaper dollars. But if you invest in stocks in your 401K you are still taking the risk inherent in the stock market. 401Ks in no way guarantee a preservation of capital, that's your job by way of making correct investment decisions.

What I said is not complicated. But most people don't know about it and therefore do not consider the implications. Go ask your CFP and they will tell you that these conditions exist. Your 401K is part of the system, not a workaround.
You are completely missing the point and to be honest, with respect to what I said, you are completely wrong. Here is the scenario I am referring to as easy money:

Person A works for a company that matches 100% for the first 3% the employee contributes, and then matches 50% for the next 2%. If the employee puts 5% of his pre-tax dollars into his/her 401K the company then puts in 4% for a total of 9% of the persons salary. That is around an 80% ROI for the employee. NO inflation rate in the US would erode that rate of return to a point where it would be untenable. If that money was then dumped into a MM account, while the return is lower than inflation, it would reduce the impact of inflation even further. The company match in the 401K far exceeds ANY historic return from the stock market AND that was my sole point. Everything else you added was irrelevant to my point.

Don't lecture on me on how investments work, I have a good understanding of the process.
 
Back in the day - there were opportunities to earn pensions to support retirement. Then IRA/401K, etc. were developed to allow average citizens to invest for their retirement - take control of their own futures.

What percent of Americans make good use of the IRA/401k/etc. system to save for their futures?

We are finding out now as my Boomer generation with pensions ends and the IRA/401k/etc. generation begins to retire.
It is a pretty sad percentage

Retirement Savings By Age
 
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Not necessarily. The realized rate of return depends on several factors:
1. The length of time it has been put into a 401K vs the real inflation rate. The longer, the lower the real return. This is especially true in the 2000s.
2. What the 401K is invested in. Whatever it is invested in will determine the actual return, which then still gets eaten away by inflation.
3. Investment losses, which do happen.
4. Any premature withdrawals, which usually have to be paid back with interest.
5. Taxes. Traditional 401K's are taxed as regular income at retirement while only the employer contribution is taxed in a Roth 401K since you contribution is post-taxation.
6. The actual matching by the employer. This can be variable, based on the company, and is optional.
7. Maximum yearly contribution ceilings.

401K's are not a panacea and it must be remembered that this money is effectively tied up until retirement within the financial sector of the economy. Taxes, inflation and risk eat away at the return and most people never consider these aspects, never realizing that the rate of return they think they are getting is higher than what they actually receive.
i could come up with 4/5 ways to fix SS. i am an idiot and they would all suck. the problem for the future is inflation. it is a problem for every part of the economy. us boomers will likely mostly get by on pensions,ss,savings and lower levels of real needs day to day. gen x will be +/-. many will have investments,401s,etc. but not all will. mils,z are in trouble. you speak of a 60K income which is now needed to just get by. rents @ 2K,buying any house needing >100k incomes,cars and trucks going 20-90k+. major appliances needing replacement every 7 yr. food costs 3-5x in 80s. there is likely to be nothing left for saving/investing.
got no clue for a solution. but a warning. in history these kinds of unfixable problems have frequently caused massive social disruptions,wars and societal collapse.
 
You are completely missing the point and to be honest, with respect to what I said, you are completely wrong. Here is the scenario I am referring to as easy money:

Person A works for a company that matches 100% for the first 3% the employee contributes, and then matches 50% for the next 2%. If the employee puts 5% of his pre-tax dollars into his/her 401K the company then puts in 4% for a total of 9% of the persons salary. That is around an 80% ROI for the employee. NO inflation rate in the US would erode that rate of return to a point where it would be untenable. If that money was then dumped into a MM account, while the return is lower than inflation, it would reduce the impact of inflation even further. The company match in the 401K far exceeds ANY historic return from the stock market AND that was my sole point. Everything else you added was irrelevant to my point.

Don't lecture on me on how investments work, I have a good understanding of the process.
Nope, not wrong. Inflation can and does erode that initial ROI significantly over time. I understand where you are coming from, but that 80% ROI is only on 5% of your earnings and isn't the return it should be. You are still missing the time component along with taxes. Here's how much value the dollar has lost over the years:

2010: 31% - what cost $1 would cost $1.45 today - 1/3 of your 401K money is gone today. MM avg 0.17% (TOTAL LOSER)
2000: 45% - what cost $1 would cost $1.83 today - almost 1/2 of your money is gone today. MM avg 5.89%
1995: 52% - what cost $1 would cost $2.07 today - just above 1/2 of your money is gone today. MM avg was 5.48%
1980: 74% - what cost $1 would cost $3.83 today - 3/4 of your money is gone today. (401K first opened) MM avg 12.68%.

See the problem? And the kicker is that the 80% ROI in your example is ONLY on 5% of your earnings. The longer you live the more of that you lose to inflation, and you STILL have to pay taxes on top of that when you pull it out. This is the price of monetary inflation that our elected officials have burdened us with. Inflation over time is eroding the purchasing power in real terms.

Then assume you retire and pull in $80K annually from your traditional 401K, which is not too shabby all things considered. The tax rate for that is 19% after calculating the progressive tax ladder, which knocks a hole in the money market returns and may even eat into your principal in real terms causing a loss. So you get $64.7K annually after tax - $5400 per month.
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My point is that SS is a racket, we all know that. But the 401K is not without its problems either and must be actively managed.
 
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i could come up with 4/5 ways to fix SS. i am an idiot and they would all suck. the problem for the future is inflation. it is a problem for every part of the economy. us boomers will likely mostly get by on pensions,ss,savings and lower levels of real needs day to day. gen x will be +/-. many will have investments,401s,etc. but not all will. mils,z are in trouble. you speak of a 60K income which is now needed to just get by. rents @ 2K,buying any house needing >100k incomes,cars and trucks going 20-90k+. major appliances needing replacement every 7 yr. food costs 3-5x in 80s. there is likely to be nothing left for saving/investing.
got no clue for a solution. but a warning. in history these kinds of unfixable problems have frequently caused massive social disruptions,wars and societal collapse.
If I'm being honest, I think inflation will be the thing that causes many to work until they die or are unable to and will then be in poverty until they die.