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Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

jaycoux

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 22, 2010
503
12
Central Texas
About a year ago I purchased an AWSM. I already had the AW and it proved to be the finest weapon I ever purchased. I previously shot a TRG-42 but did not care for the cheek piece and stock. So when I came into a little extra cash, the AWSM seemed like the natural rifle to go to.

I did a OCW test with new Lapua brass, FGMM 215M primers, Retumbo powder and 250 grain scenars. COAL was set at 3.61". I started at 93.6 grains and planned to go up to 95.8. What I discovered was that there was poor accuracy with all the loads (average group just under 1") and the poi for each group did not reveal a really obvious node. I started to exceed 2960fps with the 94.5 grain charge so I stopped there. I dismissed the accuracy issue thinking that maybe it was because I was shooting off sandbags and a bench, which I hardly ever do anymore. I picked the best group that was closest to a possible node and started shooting at 1000 yards (farthest range we have around here) and that was the end of it.

Most of my testing was done in the fall, and as summer approached I went out to verify zero on the rifle. I discovered quickly that the rifle/scope would not do what I was asking it to do. For example, lowering the elevation would frequently yield a shot too low and to the right or left. I put up a dot drill and began shooting that with horrible results. It simply would not put two shots in the same place.

Factors I have considered and ruled out
1. Scope: The scope is a Schmidt and Bender 5-25 which previously functioned flawlessly on a trg-42. To be sure, I remounted it on the TRG and it did well. Good group, appropriate tracking.
2. Shooter: One potential issue could be a bad cheek weld and different POI because of that. However, I shoot the same platform in 308 and have never had a problem with this. Second issue could be flinch with bigger rifle. Possible, but I had no problem with the TRG and it is a lighter, harder recoiling rifle than the AI.
3. Mounting hardware: Everything was checked several times and was in spec each time.

Question: What can cause shifting POI from group to group? To me, it seems like it almost HAS to be me. Is there anything else I am missing? Too hot a load? Rifle issues? If so, what would the issue possibly be? I am at a loss. I already called up AINA and they said send it in, but I am looking to you guys before I do. I am having a hard time believing that this is a rifle problem.

Any thought out there? (and no, I'm not going to give away either gun)
wink.gif
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

Have you tried factory match ammunition? It might be a great option just to rule out ammunition. I would also see if someone else familar with the platform can shoot it for you to confirm the issue is with the rifle and not with you. Also was this rifle brand new or used when you purchased it? If it was well used you could possibly have a shot out barrel.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

Good points B3dlam, sorry I forgot to put that info in my op.

Yes, I bought it new

Yes, I have shot it with factory lapua 250 grain scenar and it did similar things.

Yes, I had a friend shoot it. He shot it off bags on a bench and his groups were slightly better, but still with fluctuating poi

J
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

If you saw my attempted dot drill you would know why the ladder test would be a copmplete waste of time! The crown looks good near as I can tell. I am no gunsmith but to the naked eye nothing appears to be wrong.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B3dlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you tried factory match ammunition? It might be a great option just to rule out ammunition. I would also see if someone else familar with the platform can shoot it for you to confirm the issue is with the rifle and not with you. Also was this rifle brand new or used when you purchased it? If it was well used you could possibly have a shot out barrel.
</div></div>

First shoot some factory ammo in it, see how she groups. Get a box of 250 grns and 300 grn factory ammo and see if a fellow shooter can also try some groups with it.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

Have you checked the muzzle brake it needs to be torqued to spec and you might tune the barrel by using the AI action wrench. Check the net for Tracy videos on the torque specs. Hope this helps.
Try a different powder.
What twist is the barrel?
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

Virulentus, the rifle came from the factory with the brake installed and torque was checked for the brake as well. Furthermore, the same problem was encountered with a thunderbeast 338P-1. As I stated in my op I have not taken the armorers course and would not mess with the barrel because I am not much of a gunsmith.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

I have an AW in .338 with a similar problem.
The POI change was extreme. 3-4 MOA
I tried almost every factory brand of ammo.
In every grain weight i could find.
Hornaday, Blackhills, Corbon, Remington.
I tried 2 different scopes & rings
A S&B and a Nightforce.
i called and emailed customer service trying to get some resolution to no avail.
It almost put me off AI
After all this i was shooting my 182 round through the gun about 2 months ago,
and it just cleared up.
It was crazy, like magic the gun would hold a group and has since.
I initially bore scoped the barrel and found some small tool marks in the throat of the barrel.
All i can think is that after enough shooting those small irregularities got smoothed out .
I would have bought a new barrel right off the bat but AI would never get back to me.
hope that helps a little i know its not an answer. but there isn't a lot out there about AI's having problems.

I have a couple other AI's that shoot sub-MOA so i know how frustrating it is.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

Wow saint, I'm glad to hear from you! Maybe I'm not crazy after all. Were you cleaning yours between sessions or just shooting? I have been cleaning after every session, maybe I need to leave the barrel alone. My poi shift is a bit more slight than yours-usually 0.5 to 1 moa depending on the day. After reading your post I think I'm going to just send it in. Fortunately I have gotten a response from the AI people, but I just couldn't bear the possibility of them sending it back saying "its fine, you just suck is all"

J
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

I was talking with one of the Dealers that has been doing AI rifles for a very long time in the USA and they mentioned that there seems to be a bit of a difference in the barrels these days.

The old AI ones from many years ago pretty much were one ragged hole for all your shots right out of the box (those ones they did suggest doing an exensive break in, but it was still dead on accurate out of the box).

The new ones specifically in the AX .338 series they said from their experiance had not so great accuracy until they got about 200 rounds through them and then all seemed to settle down (the newer barrels were also advertised as not needing to do a break in).

If you just got your .338 a year ago, there is a possibility that it is one of the newer barrel types (not sure).

The down side is that running 200 rounds of .338 to break in your barrel is a bit expensive, even if you are using cheap $3 ammo!

I recently got a like new AX .338 and taking it out the first time I was not getting good results.

My old AW and ASM rifles from a long time ago, pretty much took 2 rounds to sight in (put gun in mechanical rest, look down barrel, make sure barrel and scope saw the same paper at 100 yards, fire one round, make sure gun was pointed back to the same point of aim, move crosshairs to point of impact, fire another round, hit target dead on, proceed to clean etc).

The new AX one seemed to never get quite right, but it only had 40 to 80 rounds through it and I was shooting cheaper ammo in 105 degree heat with a different type of scope mount than I am used to, so I'll have to go back and try again, in a week or two, but the whole having to shoot 120 more rounds before it gets accurate is a bit of a pain!
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

W54, thank you for your reply. My rifle is the old style, and appears to have a uk barrel on it based on the markings I've been told to look for. That being said it is still wildly inconsistent. I hope the AINA folks can come up with an answer for me. This has been the most frustrating weapon I have ever owned, largely because my aw is such a dependable rifle. I was really hoping this one would perform the same.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaycoux</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "its fine, you just suck is all"

J </div></div>

That
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

Try shooting your rifle further out. 100 yards is too close to get any idea of how a 338 will shoot. They are big long bullets and need at least 300 yards to effectively stabilize in my experience.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hannibalsnipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaycoux</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "its fine, you just suck is all"

J </div></div>

That </div></div>

Now Hannibal, don't get me mad. I have some great pics of your groups I could share...
wink.gif
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

Send it in to AINA, or if you want send it in to GAP and he will set your gun straight. GAP will turn your gun around quicker than AINA. He has done all of mine , and they all shoot 1/2 moa in all conditions with no poi shift.
Note I have changed all my AW and AX barrels to GAP with the exception of a 308 AW.
But with the poi shift you are having you need to have the factory look at it.
 
Re: Potential problem with AIAWSM 338 LM-HELP!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaycoux</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hannibalsnipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaycoux</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "its fine, you just suck is all"

J </div></div>

That </div></div>

Now Hannibal, don't get me mad. I have some great pics of your groups I could share...
wink.gif
</div></div>

Awww... load development and weapons that are manufacturers defects don't count!