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Powder for short barrel 243?

Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

It looks like H4350 is a good option here. As an aside, my Dad has a short barreled factory 243 (Savage Model 10), that shoots 0.25 MOA with H4895 pushing 75 gr VMAX. I don't have his powder charge in front of me, nor did we chrono his velocity, but with that accuracy I'd be willing to sacrifice a few fps in exchange for peace of mind.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

Gonna try 4350 first. Hopefully I don't scre up too much brass in the process, LOL. I think that 4895 might not be enough for both of the 90's I'm shooting. But, I might try it. I say again, the biggest thing I worry about with me loading my own stuff is consistancy. I'm lazy sometimes and also I have a tendancy to get carried away at other times. My reloading equipment is very basic and around 25 yrs old, aside from the Wilson seater I just bought. I might have to have someone more experienced teach me how to do it with a more consistancy.
The rifle itself will be accurate enough for me to be able to get that kind of performance given the right load. Mike at TBA, or Rusty at Shootist arms will be building it and the rifle will shoot fine. Just whether or not I mess up the loads. I have to lean on the velocity for certain reasons here. So, I do need some speed.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

cutnhrse,

If you're looking for some excellent information on practical precision reloading, that's easy to understand and implement, check out John Barsness' excellent DVD <span style="font-style: italic">'Beyond the Basics[/i].'</span> It retails for around $20. One of the places you can find it is here http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Handloading-Beyond-John-Barsness/dp/1879356686
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

Appreciated, but, like I said, I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to this stuff. May check it out anyway.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

Also... I don't know why but between my 223, 22-250, 243, and 260 Rem, the best powder in each them is H4895. It's just a great all around temperature stable powder.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

Thats what my brother in law was worried about when it comes to me loading ammo. He said "I won't be within 30 feet of you or your ammo this summer", LOL!
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

possibly something applicable to powder burn and short barrels: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/superformance-technology.pdf

i'd go with hornady superperformance / light magnums off the shelf, http://www.hornady.com/store/243-Win-95-gr-SST-Superformance/ seemingly they are as close as you are going to get for a max vel. and built to be "safe" pressures.
chrony them through YOUR barrel. get the FPS. then look at load data to try to mimic that, starting lower and working your way up to the shelf bought stuff. look at the primers of shot rounds to see any signs of over pressure / over charging as you are working your way up jsut as a safety issue. sacrifice a few rounds of the shelf bought stuff to get case and overall length, weigh the powder inside and see what type of composition it is (flake, stick, ball) it may give you a clue to what they are using.

as mentioned before, fastest may not always be the most accurate. it's nice to have a flat shooter, but what's the point if the POI is erratic? while you are working up your loads, take note of the group size, you may find in YOUR rifle, slower is better.

even though you may be able to reach published loads for a 22" with a 20", that's not gaurantee that the powder that accomplished this is within safe pressures as you are typically using more powder to push it faster in a smaller length barrel, causing more pressure.

the "rule of thumb" is 50 fps per inch to calculate / relate max loads published to barrel lengths you have in reality, but then there are the "other rules of thumb".

from a chuck hawks article on barrel length and figures for per 1" of losing barrel length:

The 2001 Edition of the Shooter's Bible states, in the introduction to the Centerfire Rifle Ballistics section, "Barrel length affects velocity, and at various rates depending on the load. As a rule, figure 50 fps per inch of barrel, plus or minus, if your barrel is longer or shorter than 22 inches." However, they do not say what category of load to which this 50 fps average pertains.

Jack O'Connor wrote in The Rifle Book that, "The barrel shorter than standard has a velocity loss which averages about 25 foot-seconds for every inch cut off the barrel. Likewise, there is a velocity gain with a longer barrel." He went on to illustrate this using a .30-06 rifle shooting 180 grain bullets as an example, so his estimate was obviously for rifles in that general performance class.

Other authorities have tried to take into account the different velocity ranges within which modern cartridges operate. The Remington Catalog 2003 includes a "Centerfire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length" table that shows the following velocity changes for barrels shorter or longer than the test barrel length:

MV 2000-2500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps.
MV 2500-3000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps.
MV 3000-3500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps.
MV 3500-4000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps.


The 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook also has a table showing Center Fire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length. Their figures apply to barrels between 20 and 26 inches in length and agree with the Remington figures. The Lyman table shows the following approximate velocity changes:

For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 1000-2000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 5 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2001-2500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2501-3000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3001-3500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3501-4000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps.

The 43rd edition of the Lyman reloading Handbook gave some concrete examples of velocity loss for specific calibers and loads. The Lyman technicians chronographed some high velocity cartridges in rifles with barrels ranging in length from 26 inches down to 22 inches with the following results:

The average loss for the .243 Win./100 grain bullet was 29 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .264 Win. Mag./140 grain bullet was 32 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .300 H&H Mag./220 grain bullet was 25 fps per inch.




safety first, accuraccy second as it's hard to be accurate with a blown up rifle.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

Your numbers agree with what I've found - about 25 fps/inch. This varies some, of course. But I have not found any evidence of the <span style="font-style: italic">50 fps/inch rule of thumb</span> to be true.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

That was me rounding the numbers up. I always figure the worst before the best. This way I'm always surprised. Then when I'm surprised, i figure I can back it down more to get it right. I figured 4350 will be an accurate load in the vecinity of speed I'm wanting. Still other factors that may force me to try others.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

yeah i think the 50 fps per inch is more towards handguns, or is a leftover from the old days before we had such lovely technology, but its out there in circulation.

i like the FPS range method rule of thumb better, but always start on the low end of any particular load. as stated before slower can sometimes be better on the accuracy side, and if it starts dropping off the quicker i go, why go any further?

other than someone being a recoil / muzzle blast junkie and eating up more powder and brass, i never seen the point of going max or compressed loads unless it's producing better accuracy.
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

I tend to agree. I generally shoot for accuracy before velocity. I have noted more than once though that a slightly compressed load seems to give better groups. Especially with RL22 and H4831(including H4831sc). Uniform compression providing more consistent burning is my unsubstantiated theory. Obviously this has to be a slow burning powder in order to lower the pressures. ALWAYS start low and work up, watching and feeling for pressure signs all the way. Safety first!
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

Well, that generally goes back to the way to fight wind errosion: You can either cut it with speed, or, ride on it(high BC's). 90 grainers don't generally have that high of BCs, so, back to speed for me. Again, the things I'm going to be doing with it have to do with speed also. I don't want to get into those things, because I don't care to hear a bunch of peoples crap about it. Especially since most of us already agree 243 is a good round.
You guys know what I'm sayin'...
 
Re: Powder for short barrel 243?

Well I just got back from TBA and Mike said he would preffere if I let him load the rounds. He said he would make them basicaly how I wanted, but more to his spec. Or, probably just more to spec, lol. Either way, he said he wouldn't charge me very much, but that he would feel better about it leaving the end of one of his rifles. If that makes sense.
He also said he would teach me to get them tighter.
 
This is a good discussion but leaves a lot of questions.

I have new Remington Model 7 in .243 arriving next week. The optimum powder is a challenge. I went through that with rifle calibers in TC Contender pistols in IHMSA shooting. It took a lot of trial and error to develop loads that were accurate and without useless muzzle blast.

I’m OK with limited range as a trade off for a more handy rifle. Most of my shots at deer will be 200 yards max. The bullets, brass, primers are easy. The powder is the wildcard. The Hodgdon Burn Rate Table might help but I expect it to be trial and error for me.


If anyone has some thoughts in 2019, I’ll appreciate them.