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Rifle Scopes PR Heritage Scopes

Re: PR Heritage Scopes

That definately sounds like a problem, much worse than what my DT clicks felt like.
Sounds like the clickers could use a heat treatment (litening Chris?).
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

And if Chris is listening I've got an idea for the Gen 2 XS ( extra snipery)

take the gen 2 leave the illumination, mil dot size, line size, and the outer bar size the same. Then make the holdover extend to 10 mils instead of 5 and add the windage dots of the XR. I'd leave them the same size as they are in the current 3-15 XR.

I hope I described that right. I'd swap for that reticle. To me it'd be everything I like in both reticles combined.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Guys loved every aspect of my Premier, but due to extenuating circumstances i had to get rid of it. The thing with Chris is that he is most likely not going to listen to any suggestions thrown out on here. I love the scope and features, but the owner is a different story.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys loved every aspect of my Premier, but due to extenuating circumstances i had to get rid of it. The thing with Chris is that he is most likely not going to listen to any suggestions thrown out on here. I love the scope and features, but the owner is a different story. </div></div>

Deadly, why did you want to trade your PH for a different scope @ a similar price point if you loved every aspect of the PH?
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

This was exactly what I was saying in the original thread and got bashed.

One or 2 reviews of hand selected scopes mean very little. Let the product get into the hands of the GP shooters and then you will know what you have.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys loved every aspect of my Premier, but due to extenuating circumstances i had to get rid of it. The thing with Chris is that he is most likely not going to listen to any suggestions thrown out on here. I love the scope and features, but the owner is a different story. </div></div>

Deadly, why did you want to trade your PH for a different scope @ a similar price point if you loved every aspect of the PH?

</div></div>

because i need something with a little less topend. Nothing more nothing less. The PH was a great scope, just didnt fit the bill that i need right now. And also my comments on the owner dont really have anything to do with the features or what i liked didnt like about the scope. I was saying that Chris isnt very receptive to listening to the general users of his scope so dont hold your breath on seeing reticles designed by you guys or anything like that
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys loved every aspect of my Premier, but due to extenuating circumstances i had to get rid of it. The thing with Chris is that he is most likely not going to listen to any suggestions thrown out on here. I love the scope and features, but the owner is a different story. </div></div>

Deadly, why did you want to trade your PH for a different scope @ a similar price point if you loved every aspect of the PH?

</div></div>

because i need something with a little less topend. Nothing more nothing less. The PH was a great scope, just didnt fit the bill that i need right now. And also my comments on the owner dont really have anything to do with the features or what i liked didnt like about the scope. I was saying that Chris isnt very receptive to listening to the general users of his scope so dont hold your breath on seeing reticles designed by you guys or anything like that </div></div>

Deadly, no disrespect meant but how does buying a USO 3.8-22x58 give you any significant drop in "top end", it does not seem like much of a step down in magnification?
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

what was my other scope i was looking for???? A NF F1, which is 3.5-15. Im not a fan of the USO 3-17 so thats my only logic there, also i have a NF on the way so i guess i need to update that. No disrespect taken
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

rath, I believe you are thinking about soberbiker, who, BTW decided to keep his PH. I switch gear all the time (A.D.D.) but that does not say that the gear I want to trade has anything wrong with it. Sometimes I just want to try something different.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rath, I believe you are thinking about soberbiker, who, BTW decided to keep his PH. I switch gear all the time (A.D.D.) but that does not say that the gear I want to trade has anything wrong with it. Sometimes I just want to try something different. </div></div>

A.D.D. manifesting itself by changing out gear that works perfectly is a known complication of prolonged exposure to Sniper's Hide, and is usually not a reflection on the gear.

You are both correct, I was looking to get into a moa/moa trade with my PR 5-25, but deadly also had his posted as a WTT for NF F1 or USO 3.8-22.

I really like my PR, but am not married to it.....if NF had their 5-22 FFP done or if I see a USO 3.8-22 set up in a way I like come available I'd probably be up for a swap.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Sobr you are correct, i sold mine and was wanting to buy an F1(which i did) just had a WTB ad to see if i could buy one from a hide member. They are good scopes, just a little much for my typical uses
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Never had a problem or noticed a problem with #0030 or #0050 in regards to them being mushy. Actualy they are by comparison much more positive than my USO with EREK.

Was this an issue apparent out of the box or are they gradualy getting softer? Do I need to send mine back for any sort of "upgrade"?
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

The knob detents are user servicable, there is no need to send the scope back. My detents got soft over about 20 shooting sessions. Even at their worst, the knobs would not move on their own. I like mine, I don't care what anybody says. Given current top end scope prices, this thing is a steal.

Anchor: Jerry r was sending the detents out free of charge prior to his departure, I assume that's still the case.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Supersubes,

Were these the new "stiffer" clickers that you noticed getting soft or the original ones?

It could be the "clickers" are considered the "acceptable wear part", cheap and user serviceable. In that if they made them out of a harder material or heat treated them harder it may just accelerate wear on a more difficult and more expensive to replace part.

One might hypothesize that the knob click feel originally was a compromise on longevity of the clickers and that the new stiffer spring upgrades may wear out quicker. However, I think enough of the new clickers have been out long enough now that if that was the case we'd have heard of it by now.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

No, the soft feel I described was with the old detents. They were noticably rounded when I removed them. It's also interesting that those same parts did have dual springs already, as the new ones do. I read somewhere on here that the new parts are harder, I didn't read it directly from Premier though. I have only seen the detent arrangement on an EREK, so thats all I have to compare this to. If the metalurgy is right on the premier parts, I don't see why there would be any deterioration over time.

The scope is working fine now and mounted on a .223 that gets shot regularly from 100 to nearly 1K, so I'm all over the first revolution. My scope is number 253 I think.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Mushy clicks are never an issue, if you dont ever touch your knobs.....lol...........Thanks DTAC Reticle
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

New and old detents together as they sit in the turret. The worn out one is in the position which acts at the full mil position. Notice how the new one protrudes further out, they probably used the same springs, but this would pre-load them more. It looks like there is a small design change to the angles on the face, the old one seems to have an extra face ground into it. Very difficult to get good pictures of the bad one, the surface is just rounded off, not all kraggy like the light is making it seem. I looked at the grooves in the knob itself under 10X magnification and I can't see any wear whatsoever.

premierdetents011.jpg

premierdetents001.jpg
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Supersubes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I looked at the grooves in the knob itself under 10X magnification and I can't see any wear whatsoever.

</div></div>

That's good to hear, as I forgot to check that out when I was changing mine out.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Just for grins, I got my S&B 5-25 out to compare how the "clicks" felt when compared to the PH 5-25 clicks.

Hands down the winner was the S&B, and I've installed the "click fix" in my PH, which did make a world of difference. However, despite the fix, I can easily slide by any of the .1 mil marks, especially .1 and .2 after a full Mil.

On my S&B there is NO mistake; each and every tiny click is audible and very tactile. It's not even close, the S&B has much crisper adjustment in the turrets than the PH.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">J I can easily slide by any of the .1 mil marks, especially .1 and .2 after a full Mil.</div></div>

This has been the only fly in my PR 3-15 ointment. There is almost always an overshoot of the .1 mark after a full mil. I've spoken to Paul recently and he's repeated what other (Jerry and Chris) have said, 'the clicks need to burnish in'.

I get this issue only in the elevation turret which oddly enough, has MUCH louder clicks that the windage. I'm going to be turning the turrets for a few more days, a little at a time but if the issues persistent then I'll send it in.

Still, given that for a S&B it would have been an extra $1300 (at least) I'm still happy with my value for money.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hands down the winner was the S&B, and I've installed the "click fix" in my PH, which did make a world of difference. However, despite the fix, I can easily slide by any of the .1 mil marks, especially .1 and .2 after a full Mil.
</div></div>

Thanks for the comparison.

It makes me wonder if the MTC system is really a detriment? At the whole mil marks, both clickers engage a tooth in the turret. This now means twice as much torque is required to move both clickers out of the MTC tooth and into the next x.1 mil tooth. Maybe this extra force required to do so allows one to easily pass by the very next one or two x.1 mil teeth.

I wonder if a non-MTC knob with new, improved clickers would feel more like an S&B?
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This has been the only fly in my PR 3-15 ointment. There is almost always an overshoot of the .1 mark after a full mil. I've spoken to Paul recently and he's repeated what other (Jerry and Chris) have said, 'the clicks need to <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">burnish in</span></span>'.

I get this issue only in the elevation turret which oddly enough, has MUCH louder clicks that the windage. I'm going to be turning the turrets for a few more days, a little at a time but if the issues persistent then I'll send it in.

Still, given that for a S&B it would have been an extra $1300 (at least) I'm still happy with my value for money.
</div></div>
My windage clicks are much louder as well in the PH.

I've highlighted what Paul told you, and I think that flies in the face of logic. As you hit those clickers more and more metal is going to be smoothed over. It seems to me the more you turn a turret, the smoother and quieter it would get.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

For me the MTC system beats the crap out of the regular same clicks for the full mill marks, no question in my mind.

I own one of the original 22 mil single turn PH scopes, the one hardly anyone could live with cause the clicks were so close together.

For one thing the knobs are so big that you can grab them with more of your whole hand and apply the torque to turn the knob easier than a smaller knob.

I've been using it since PH's came out, I have number 12. So far mine has behaved just like it should in every respect. I know there are others who haven't had as good an experience, but I can't complain about mine at all.

Despite having a 22 mil single turn knob, I can't remember ever coming across a situation either in training in the mountains or under a time constraint of a match, where a one tenth over shoot has been a problem. I very seldom shoot past a one tenth click after a full mil mark any more.

I'll bet I can turn my dope on a rifle faster than a knob that has the same clicks for the full mil marks. If it's low light, or no light, no problem at all with the MTC. The MTC and zero stops make it my normal practice to input my dope usually without even looking at the numbers. I do look at them after dialing in the dope, but almost all the time that glance is unneeded. The zero stop and MTC to ME are MAJOR features of the PH scope that I will want in any scope I use from now on. Hardly a detriment, those features more than make up for the rare instance of skipping over a one tenth click after a full mill heavy clunk.

YMMV.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Tony, you can't expect the opinion of someone that actually shoots to outweigh folks that twist their knobs indoors can you?
wink.gif


and before anyone gets their thongs all in a bunch-lighten up its a joke!

the MTC is the zerostop of the next generation! (Kinda makes one wonder how did we ever hit anything with non-matching multi revolution soft clicky scopes in days gone by?)
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I couldn't agree more regarding the zero stop and the heavier click on full mil values; I could tell where I am blindfolded, and if I get lost, I simply rip it back to the zero stop (<span style="font-style: italic">I have a one-turn 27~29 Mil elevation knob too</span>), then count 'em up: tick-tick-tick-THUNK-tick-tick...

I think it is definitely a well-thought out system. My S&B is a MOA/Mil set up.
sick.gif


I'm going to send it back to S&B and get the knobs converted to Mil at $250.00 per knob. I wonder if they have Single turn, MTC knobs for the S&B 5-25? Anyone know?
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

S & B does not have ANY MTC knobs. IIRC the technology is owned by USO and licensed to Premier. Plus, I do not think S & B makes single turn elevation knobs for the 5-25.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Yeah, I just got off the line with a source who agrees with you 100%.

I wish S&B had that technology.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S & B does not have ANY MTC knobs. IIRC the technology is owned by USO and licensed to Premier. Plus, I do not think S & B makes single turn elevation knobs for the 5-25. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3–12 x 50 PM II Military
The scope chosen by the United States Marine Corps as standard equipment Scout Sniper Day Scopes. It includes all the features of the 3–12 x 50 PM II LP, plus a sepcially designed "double-turn" counter-clockwise elevation knob <span style="font-weight: bold">with tactile clicks every 10cm or 1 Mil</span>. In place of the color-coded window, it has a ring-style indicator which raises after the first full rotation of the knob. This can be both seen and felt by the operator, giving clear indication of which scale to read on the turret. There is a total of 220cm/22Mils/79.2" of elevation adjustment. </div></div>

SB Military
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: runngun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S & B does not have ANY MTC knobs. IIRC the technology is owned by USO and licensed to Premier. Plus, I do not think S & B makes single turn elevation knobs for the 5-25. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3–12 x 50 PM II Military
The scope chosen by the United States Marine Corps as standard equipment Scout Sniper Day Scopes. It includes all the features of the 3–12 x 50 PM II LP, plus a sepcially designed "double-turn" counter-clockwise elevation knob <span style="font-weight: bold">with tactile clicks every 10cm or 1 Mil</span>. In place of the color-coded window, it has a ring-style indicator which raises after the first full rotation of the knob. This can be both seen and felt by the operator, giving clear indication of which scale to read on the turret. There is a total of 220cm/22Mils/79.2" of elevation adjustment. </div></div>

SB Military </div></div>

USMC SSDS was built here by Premier, with the MTC licensed through USO, you can't just order the SSDS 3-12 from S&B, if I have my story straight.......
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Sorry sobrbiker, what could I have possibly been thinking.
smile.gif


The MTC is kind of like going from the MOA/MIL system to the MIL/MIL system. After you've been exposed to it and can see just how much more user friendly it is, you don't want to go back to anything else.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: runngun</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S & B does not have ANY MTC knobs. IIRC the technology is owned by USO and licensed to Premier. Plus, I do not think S & B makes single turn elevation knobs for the 5-25. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3–12 x 50 PM II Military
The scope chosen by the United States Marine Corps as standard equipment Scout Sniper Day Scopes. It includes all the features of the 3–12 x 50 PM II LP, plus a sepcially designed "double-turn" counter-clockwise elevation knob <span style="font-weight: bold">with tactile clicks every 10cm or 1 Mil</span>. In place of the color-coded window, it has a ring-style indicator which raises after the first full rotation of the knob. This can be both seen and felt by the operator, giving clear indication of which scale to read on the turret. There is a total of 220cm/22Mils/79.2" of elevation adjustment. </div></div>

SB Military </div></div>

Just 'cause you read it on the INTERWEB it must be true!!
smile.gif


I am slightly familiar with the Marine Corps scope.

312002.jpg
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

19Scout77

I'm not sure what your implying. Is it that they don't have 1 mil clicks and the SB site is wrong, or that none come from the factory that way, and Premier installed the MTC on the Marines scopes?
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

the SSDS had its MTC put in by Premier. SB doesnt make them from the factory that way. USO patented the MTC and then allowed PR to use it.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there made in the US
Bill </div></div>

Really, I could have sworn they're made in "Nun-ya..." Can't seem to find that on the map though...
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there made in the US
Bill </div></div>

Really, I could have sworn they're made in "Nun-ya..." Can't seem to find that on the map though...</div></div>

Nun-ya is where the parts are sourced, but the scopes are built in Winchester, VA.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I think I found it!! Nun-ya is a small village in the Republic of China!! It's close to Myob which is in Thailand...
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

That's awesome that when people ask what parts are in thier $2500 scope, you tell them "nun ya"....


Great PR move.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's awesome that when people ask what parts are in thier $2500 scope, you tell them "nun ya"....

Great PR move. </div></div>

Agreed, not the smartest move I've seen in relating honesty and integrity in branding
shocked.gif


Each to their own...
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

I guess there's no way I'll come out smelling like roses on this one. You can bust my balls all you want, but I still don't understand why the insistence on knowing where our parts are sourced. It's as if I'm trying to pull the wool over peoples' eyes OR worse yet, that I'm trying to palm a Chinese product as being made by Premier Reticles.

At any rate, all of our optics and precision mechanical parts are sourced in Germany, the rest...well it varies. Hopefully, in the next couple years, we'll be able to bring most of the manufacturing under roof. But for now, we're at the mercy of subcontractors and have to shoot for the best price while maintaining a fine balance with quality.

In case anyone is interested, our doors are always open to let folks tour our facility.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Chris i have an honest question. Do you actually care what the end users of your product think about you, the company, and the product? From everything you have said in here it doesnt seem to be pointing in this direction. It seems as if you have more to hide or you would straight out man up and say where your parts are from. Just the way i see it take it for what its worth
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

For educational purposes; does an erector spring qualify as a "precision mechanical part"? And about the doors always being open; do you really want to go there?
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For educational purposes; does an erector spring qualify as a "precision mechanical part"? And about the doors always being open; do you really want to go there? </div></div>


This could get ugly....

rgwg1x.jpg
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

Well...since I own one of the scopes he makes, I guess I'll jump in too. If asked where my parts were sourced from, or the formulation of my lens coatings, I would have given an answer that was equivalent to "nunya" too; perhaps more diplomatically phrased, but the meaning would be the same.

Who says Premier Reticles has to throw open its doors and books to the end user because we want to know if some of the parts are sourced in third-world countries? No other company would. If for nothing else, I wouldn't want my competitors, or possible future competitors, to know where they can get a part they use too, but I'm getting the part made for 50% of their cost.

I'm simply reiterating what other posters have already said. Premier Reticles owes us a scope that works, and works so very well indeed, and that's ALL they owe us. We pay our money and take our chances. The icing on the cake is they give it the best warranty in the industry. If you have a Heritage, and you're the 4th owner, and it goes TU, it's my understanding that PR will fix the scope. Hard to beat that gentlemen. They owe us nothing else. If I were Chris I might be getting a little peeved too.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For educational purposes; does an erector spring qualify as a "precision mechanical part"? And about the doors always being open; do you really want to go there? </div></div>


This could get ugly....

rgwg1x.jpg

</div></div>

No, i bet "someone" will wave their magic wand and make this whole thread disapear, as they have in the past.

Julian
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Who says Premier Reticles has to throw open its doors and books to the end user because we want to know if some of the parts are sourced in third-world countries? No other company would.
</div></div>

really so your saying that NF didnt come out and say they sourced stuff to Japan? Or JBW#3 didnt come out and say that his glass was made elsewhere? But i guess no one else would. It seems that Chris is hiding things frmo his consumers, thats you. If I inquired about where a piece or part was made and i got told "nun-ya" to me thats a nice way of saying F**K Off, but to each his own. Im done with this, ill just stand in the back and look forward to hearing if Chris has a response to my question. Glad your happy with it Dood.
 
Re: PR Heritage Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magnumdood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The icing on the cake is they give it the best warranty in the industry. If you have a Heritage, and you're the 4th owner, and it goes TU, it's my understanding that PR will fix the scope. Hard to beat that gentlemen</div></div>

I know of another company that will do the same.......

I am glad this is at least staying a semi-civil debate. I don't like pissing contest. I think most everyone has represented their opinions well and are still playing nice, for now anyway
 
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