Rifle Scopes Premier and US Optics
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Re: Premier and US Optics
My preference is Premier. I've tried a USO and while it was a well built optic I liked the Premier much better.
My preference is Premier. I've tried a USO and while it was a well built optic I liked the Premier much better.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'd be better off looking at S&B or Hensoldt. </div></div>x2 </div></div>
Ya'll are fully entitled to your options but I'm curious about them. I can' speak for S&B but I have been behind Hensoldt, USO, and own a Premier. Obviously I like Premier. Why do ya'll hold the options you do?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'd be better off looking at S&B or Hensoldt. </div></div>x2 </div></div>
Ya'll are fully entitled to your options but I'm curious about them. I can' speak for S&B but I have been behind Hensoldt, USO, and own a Premier. Obviously I like Premier. Why do ya'll hold the options you do?
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'd be better off looking at S&B or Hensoldt. </div></div>x2 </div></div>
Ya'll are fully entitled to your options but I'm curious about them. I can' speak for S&B but I have been behind Hensoldt, USO, and own a Premier. Obviously I like Premier. Why do ya'll hold the options you do? </div></div>
Had a couple bad experiences with USOs. I don't think the QC is there, had to send a scope back twice to get shit cleaned out of it. Giant specs on the FFP are not acceptable.
Now my personel premier had no issues. But I've heard way too many horror stories about soft tubes, internals freezing etc. Couple that with the price increase at the beginning of 2010 to put them in line with S&B pricing......
My 2 hensoldts have the best glass PERIOD. Downside to the Hennie they are expensive and at this moment don't offer FFP over a 16x mag.
I just ordered a S&B but have looked through plenty and the glass is better than my Premier was and I've heard very very few complaints.
Honestly if you want a Great Scope at a Great price its hard to beat the Vortex Razor HD at the moment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'd be better off looking at S&B or Hensoldt. </div></div>x2 </div></div>
Ya'll are fully entitled to your options but I'm curious about them. I can' speak for S&B but I have been behind Hensoldt, USO, and own a Premier. Obviously I like Premier. Why do ya'll hold the options you do? </div></div>
Had a couple bad experiences with USOs. I don't think the QC is there, had to send a scope back twice to get shit cleaned out of it. Giant specs on the FFP are not acceptable.
Now my personel premier had no issues. But I've heard way too many horror stories about soft tubes, internals freezing etc. Couple that with the price increase at the beginning of 2010 to put them in line with S&B pricing......
My 2 hensoldts have the best glass PERIOD. Downside to the Hennie they are expensive and at this moment don't offer FFP over a 16x mag.
I just ordered a S&B but have looked through plenty and the glass is better than my Premier was and I've heard very very few complaints.
Honestly if you want a Great Scope at a Great price its hard to beat the Vortex Razor HD at the moment.
Re: Premier and US Optics
I really like Premier scopes. I prefer the 5-25 over the 3-15 due to the reticle being more usable over the mag range.
I really like Premier scopes. I prefer the 5-25 over the 3-15 due to the reticle being more usable over the mag range.
Re: Premier and US Optics
And to chime in on the Premier, USO, S&B, Hensoldt comparison that was asked about above. I have owned all four and currently own a 2 Premiers, a S&B, and Hensoldt. To me, the USO isn't on the same level as these 3. I know glass is very subjective, but I find them all to be basically equal. The Hensoldt has a great sight picture is the only main difference to me. If they made a Hensoldt in a higher mag that was FFP and had a reticle similar to the NH1, but with a dot in the open center, I would probably replace my higher mag Premier and S&B with it. Just my observations.
And to chime in on the Premier, USO, S&B, Hensoldt comparison that was asked about above. I have owned all four and currently own a 2 Premiers, a S&B, and Hensoldt. To me, the USO isn't on the same level as these 3. I know glass is very subjective, but I find them all to be basically equal. The Hensoldt has a great sight picture is the only main difference to me. If they made a Hensoldt in a higher mag that was FFP and had a reticle similar to the NH1, but with a dot in the open center, I would probably replace my higher mag Premier and S&B with it. Just my observations.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'd be better off looking at S&B or Hensoldt. </div></div>x2 </div></div>
Ya'll are fully entitled to your options but I'm curious about them. I can' speak for S&B but I have been behind Hensoldt, USO, and own a Premier. Obviously I like Premier. Why do ya'll hold the options you do? </div></div>
Because Hensoldt and S&B are the standards by which all others are judged and Premier and USO do not stand up. USO are great scopes in their own right and Premier are good however neither compares to Henny or the S&B. The primary reason is the sum of all parts. Sure, you'll get those that say "I've looked at them side by side and I didn't see a difference" as if that is the only test however the fact of the matter is those two are head and shoulders above all others.
Of the two you inquired about, I would pick USO all day and twice on Sunday. Custom options, customer service, and John supports the shooting community all add up to a better scope in my opinion (of the two).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'd be better off looking at S&B or Hensoldt. </div></div>x2 </div></div>
Ya'll are fully entitled to your options but I'm curious about them. I can' speak for S&B but I have been behind Hensoldt, USO, and own a Premier. Obviously I like Premier. Why do ya'll hold the options you do? </div></div>
Because Hensoldt and S&B are the standards by which all others are judged and Premier and USO do not stand up. USO are great scopes in their own right and Premier are good however neither compares to Henny or the S&B. The primary reason is the sum of all parts. Sure, you'll get those that say "I've looked at them side by side and I didn't see a difference" as if that is the only test however the fact of the matter is those two are head and shoulders above all others.
Of the two you inquired about, I would pick USO all day and twice on Sunday. Custom options, customer service, and John supports the shooting community all add up to a better scope in my opinion (of the two).
Re: Premier and US Optics
USO.
Custom features unavailable elsewhere, Excellent in all aspects. I have compared side by side with Hennies, S&B, Premier and NF at the same time in the same conditions and did not see anything that would make me switch.
I like the fact that this is how their warranty was explained to my by their CEO:
"If it says USO on it we will stand behind it"
I got great service from them when I horsetraded into my first really good scope-I posted here asking if anyone knew how to zero-stop a USO #1 elevation turret. Within 24hrs I had an email from Jeff F at USO telling me that they could do it, but it was a rather permanent mod. I had them set the stop 1/2 turn under my 100yd zero, and they didn't take a nickel. Mind you this is a custom upgrade on a used scope that they offered to and they took care of someone they didn't know from Adam.
They started there with earning my loyalty, and have continued to only improve on my relationship with them since.
I've seen broken scopes of all the top players (except Hensoldts, and that's just because I haven't seen too many yet running hard in comps). I've never seen the CS from anyone for any product that I have EXPERIENCED from USO.
If I couldn't have my USO's I'd probably do S&B now that they have stateside support facilities.
I had a Premier 5-25. I got it new on a trade in the first year they were out through one of their retailers. This was when they were pushing back and pushing back the release of the 5-25 after taking orders. I had my scope 6 weeks earlier than a friend of mine did, and he paid cash to PR 3 months before I even thought of getting one. That kind of service sticks in my
mind too....
USO.
Custom features unavailable elsewhere, Excellent in all aspects. I have compared side by side with Hennies, S&B, Premier and NF at the same time in the same conditions and did not see anything that would make me switch.
I like the fact that this is how their warranty was explained to my by their CEO:
"If it says USO on it we will stand behind it"
I got great service from them when I horsetraded into my first really good scope-I posted here asking if anyone knew how to zero-stop a USO #1 elevation turret. Within 24hrs I had an email from Jeff F at USO telling me that they could do it, but it was a rather permanent mod. I had them set the stop 1/2 turn under my 100yd zero, and they didn't take a nickel. Mind you this is a custom upgrade on a used scope that they offered to and they took care of someone they didn't know from Adam.
They started there with earning my loyalty, and have continued to only improve on my relationship with them since.
I've seen broken scopes of all the top players (except Hensoldts, and that's just because I haven't seen too many yet running hard in comps). I've never seen the CS from anyone for any product that I have EXPERIENCED from USO.
If I couldn't have my USO's I'd probably do S&B now that they have stateside support facilities.
I had a Premier 5-25. I got it new on a trade in the first year they were out through one of their retailers. This was when they were pushing back and pushing back the release of the 5-25 after taking orders. I had my scope 6 weeks earlier than a friend of mine did, and he paid cash to PR 3 months before I even thought of getting one. That kind of service sticks in my
mind too....
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sure, you'll get those that say "I've looked at them side by side and I didn't see a difference" as if that is the only test however the fact of the matter is those two are head and shoulders above all others.</div></div>
Funny you were typing this while I was probably typing "I have compared side by side with Hennies, S&B, Premier and NF at the same time in the same conditions and did not see anything that would make me switch......"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Of the two you inquired about, I would pick USO all day and twice on Sunday. Custom options, customer service, and John supports the shooting community all add up to a better scope in my opinion (of the two). </div></div>
Yup!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sure, you'll get those that say "I've looked at them side by side and I didn't see a difference" as if that is the only test however the fact of the matter is those two are head and shoulders above all others.</div></div>
Funny you were typing this while I was probably typing "I have compared side by side with Hennies, S&B, Premier and NF at the same time in the same conditions and did not see anything that would make me switch......"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Of the two you inquired about, I would pick USO all day and twice on Sunday. Custom options, customer service, and John supports the shooting community all add up to a better scope in my opinion (of the two). </div></div>
Yup!
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That kind of service sticks in my
mind too....</div></div>
I also have an experince with Premier that is stuck in my mind. I bought a scope off of here knowing that it had a broken zero stop and that the double turn didn't work. I called Paul at Premier when it came in and told him the situation. He said send it in and he would look at it. So I shipped it to him. I got a phone call the day that it arrived at Paul's. He told me that the previous owner had tried to fix it himself and had really messed everything up. He followed this up by telling me that he would have it in the mail the next day completely fixed and equipped with the newest upgrades. I was extremely impressed.
On the other hand, my only experience with USO involved me buying a used scope that after using it a few time started not getting it's full range of elevation and had a few specks of dust in the reticle. I talked to USO and they told me if it hadn't been tampered with they would fix it free of charge, but if it had I would have to pay for repairs. I sent it off and waited. After a month of waiting for an update as to whether I would be responsible for repairs I decided to call them. They hadn't even looked at my scope. Fast forward to the end of the story, they did fix the scope for free but I was without it for 2+ months.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That kind of service sticks in my
mind too....</div></div>
I also have an experince with Premier that is stuck in my mind. I bought a scope off of here knowing that it had a broken zero stop and that the double turn didn't work. I called Paul at Premier when it came in and told him the situation. He said send it in and he would look at it. So I shipped it to him. I got a phone call the day that it arrived at Paul's. He told me that the previous owner had tried to fix it himself and had really messed everything up. He followed this up by telling me that he would have it in the mail the next day completely fixed and equipped with the newest upgrades. I was extremely impressed.
On the other hand, my only experience with USO involved me buying a used scope that after using it a few time started not getting it's full range of elevation and had a few specks of dust in the reticle. I talked to USO and they told me if it hadn't been tampered with they would fix it free of charge, but if it had I would have to pay for repairs. I sent it off and waited. After a month of waiting for an update as to whether I would be responsible for repairs I decided to call them. They hadn't even looked at my scope. Fast forward to the end of the story, they did fix the scope for free but I was without it for 2+ months.
Re: Premier and US Optics
So Hensoldt, S&B or USO..........I have had all 3, and my Hensoldt is the standard.
So Hensoldt, S&B or USO..........I have had all 3, and my Hensoldt is the standard.
Re: Premier and US Optics
Hehe good ole preferences. I myself am a USO fan. I own a SN-3, and can't comment on S&B, Premier, or a zeiss Henny. I do own a zeiss conquest and have no complaints. But as far as one over the other it comes down to "personal preference" This is just my Opinion but i do not believe that one is better than the other, they're all in my category of "best of the best high end scopes". As far as customer service from USO, even the stupid questions i've asked i get quick and generous replies. I do plan on trying S&B and premier in the future along to add Nightforce. 56mm Objective lens on the zeiss is way to "big" of a profile for me so i doubt i'll ever pick one up. Just my opinion on this.
Hehe good ole preferences. I myself am a USO fan. I own a SN-3, and can't comment on S&B, Premier, or a zeiss Henny. I do own a zeiss conquest and have no complaints. But as far as one over the other it comes down to "personal preference" This is just my Opinion but i do not believe that one is better than the other, they're all in my category of "best of the best high end scopes". As far as customer service from USO, even the stupid questions i've asked i get quick and generous replies. I do plan on trying S&B and premier in the future along to add Nightforce. 56mm Objective lens on the zeiss is way to "big" of a profile for me so i doubt i'll ever pick one up. Just my opinion on this.
Re: Premier and US Optics
Here is an article we did on the <span style="font-weight: bold">US Optics 3.2-17x SN-3 ERGO.</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Here is a link to a Premier Heritage 5-25x56mm review we did. </span>
The video does now show the new parallax turret but they now have it marked.
Here is an article we did on the <span style="font-weight: bold">US Optics 3.2-17x SN-3 ERGO.</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Here is a link to a Premier Heritage 5-25x56mm review we did. </span>
The video does now show the new parallax turret but they now have it marked.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out High End Tactical Scopes: Part II for some thoughtful observations.</div></div>
That was a really good review by ILya Koshkin. Too bad the warranty on the march scope isn't all that good. From the review PH is better than USO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out High End Tactical Scopes: Part II for some thoughtful observations.</div></div>
That was a really good review by ILya Koshkin. Too bad the warranty on the march scope isn't all that good. From the review PH is better than USO.
Re: Premier and US Optics
Something that doesn't get mentioned enough in these types of discussions is the fact that PRH and USO are made here by US companies. That is important to me and it should be to you as well.
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
Something that doesn't get mentioned enough in these types of discussions is the fact that PRH and USO are made here by US companies. That is important to me and it should be to you as well.
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something that doesn't get mentioned enough in these types of discussions is the fact that PRH and USO are made here by US companies. That is important to me and it should be to you as well.
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
</div></div>
I don't know anything about Zeiss CS but I know Schmidt & Bender have a service center open here in the US. As for the US based companies you are correct. It is part of the reason I prefer PH over others.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something that doesn't get mentioned enough in these types of discussions is the fact that PRH and USO are made here by US companies. That is important to me and it should be to you as well.
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
</div></div>
I don't know anything about Zeiss CS but I know Schmidt & Bender have a service center open here in the US. As for the US based companies you are correct. It is part of the reason I prefer PH over others.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something that doesn't get mentioned enough in these types of discussions is the fact that PRH and USO are made here by US companies. That is important to me and it should be to you as well.
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
</div></div>
If PH was as big as Zeiss then you wouldnt be able to talk to the people who make the scopes either.
Ford is made in america but good luck trying to talk to the people who make the cars.
Its all about the size of the company. Not where the company is located.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something that doesn't get mentioned enough in these types of discussions is the fact that PRH and USO are made here by US companies. That is important to me and it should be to you as well.
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
</div></div>
If PH was as big as Zeiss then you wouldnt be able to talk to the people who make the scopes either.
Ford is made in america but good luck trying to talk to the people who make the cars.
Its all about the size of the company. Not where the company is located.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That was a really good review by ILya Koshkin. Too bad the warranty on the march scope isn't all that good. From the review PH is better than USO. </div></div>
This will be debated until servier run out of bandwith and not be settled. I've had both in 5-25 and shot both in dusty hazy matches in crazy positions in all kinds of weather, I like the USO.
You may shoot the exact same conditions and like the Premier.
I like USO as a scope, and really like USO as a company! My SN3's do everything I need, every time. They have different features that fit different applications a little, but they all have the same reticle and adjustments.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That was a really good review by ILya Koshkin. Too bad the warranty on the march scope isn't all that good. From the review PH is better than USO. </div></div>
This will be debated until servier run out of bandwith and not be settled. I've had both in 5-25 and shot both in dusty hazy matches in crazy positions in all kinds of weather, I like the USO.
You may shoot the exact same conditions and like the Premier.
I like USO as a scope, and really like USO as a company! My SN3's do everything I need, every time. They have different features that fit different applications a little, but they all have the same reticle and adjustments.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
</div></div>
Schmidt & Bender, Inc.
741 Main Street
Claremont, NH 03743
U.S.A.
(800) 468-3450
(603) 287-4830
Mark, Todd or Marcia will be glad to help you. They not only build scopes there but do repairs and modifications like knob and reticle swaps. Very easy to call and speak to.
I care more if my scope works than where it's made. You are employing plenty of Americans by buying S&B scopes as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All of the top scopes are obviously good, so why not buy american. There is also something to be said for being able to talk to the actual people making the scope. I don't know that you could call Zeiss or SB and do that.
</div></div>
Schmidt & Bender, Inc.
741 Main Street
Claremont, NH 03743
U.S.A.
(800) 468-3450
(603) 287-4830
Mark, Todd or Marcia will be glad to help you. They not only build scopes there but do repairs and modifications like knob and reticle swaps. Very easy to call and speak to.
I care more if my scope works than where it's made. You are employing plenty of Americans by buying S&B scopes as well.
Re: Premier and US Optics
The NEW 3-20x50mm S&B looks very promising. I really like the fact the rear eye is also 50mm.
Mike @ CST
The NEW 3-20x50mm S&B looks very promising. I really like the fact the rear eye is also 50mm.
Mike @ CST
Re: Premier and US Optics
Premier or USO, which to get depends on several factors.
I have always thought the real value of USO rests in the complete customization they offer. Add to that the EREK elevation knob - my favorite among everything I've used - and you have a compelling reason to buy USO.
The down-side to USO, in my opinion, has always been glass. Their glass is thoroughly serviceable; however, it isn't among the best glass in the industry.
John does support shooting sports and this site, and I have had many interactions with John and Jeff and all were great.
As to Premier, the glass is top notch (at least in my 3-15), the turrets are good (but not EREK-good), service has been pretty good, responsiveness has been great, and the scope would probably survive a nuclear blast.
If I needed a very specific scope with unusual setup, I'd buy USO, no question. If I needed a great all-around scope that could do almost anything very well - and could be used to drive tent stakes in a pinch, I'd buy Premier.
For frame of reference, I've owned USO, Hensoldt, Premier, NF, Zeiss... At the moment, the Hensoldt and Premier are on the go-to rifles, the USOs were sold to make room for others. It seems I don't need strange configurations as much as I thought I would.
Premier or USO, which to get depends on several factors.
I have always thought the real value of USO rests in the complete customization they offer. Add to that the EREK elevation knob - my favorite among everything I've used - and you have a compelling reason to buy USO.
The down-side to USO, in my opinion, has always been glass. Their glass is thoroughly serviceable; however, it isn't among the best glass in the industry.
John does support shooting sports and this site, and I have had many interactions with John and Jeff and all were great.
As to Premier, the glass is top notch (at least in my 3-15), the turrets are good (but not EREK-good), service has been pretty good, responsiveness has been great, and the scope would probably survive a nuclear blast.
If I needed a very specific scope with unusual setup, I'd buy USO, no question. If I needed a great all-around scope that could do almost anything very well - and could be used to drive tent stakes in a pinch, I'd buy Premier.
For frame of reference, I've owned USO, Hensoldt, Premier, NF, Zeiss... At the moment, the Hensoldt and Premier are on the go-to rifles, the USOs were sold to make room for others. It seems I don't need strange configurations as much as I thought I would.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Premier or USO, which to get depends on several factors.
I have always thought the real value of USO rests in the complete customization they offer. Add to that the EREK elevation knob - my favorite among everything I've used - and you have a compelling reason to buy USO.
The down-side to USO, in my opinion, has always been glass. Their glass is thoroughly serviceable; however, it isn't among the best glass in the industry.
John does support shooting sports and this site, and I have had many interactions with John and Jeff and all were great.
As to Premier, the glass is top notch (at least in my 3-15), the turrets are good (but not EREK-good), service has been pretty good, responsiveness has been great, and the scope would probably survive a nuclear blast.
If I needed a very specific scope with unusual setup, I'd buy USO, no question. If I needed a great all-around scope that could do almost anything very well - and could be used to drive tent stakes in a pinch, I'd buy Premier.
For frame of reference, I've owned USO, Hensoldt, Premier, NF, Zeiss... At the moment, the Hensoldt and Premier are on the go-to rifles, the USOs were sold to make room for others. It seems I don't need strange configurations as much as I thought I would. </div></div>
Like i said i own a SN-3. How would you rate the toughness of the SN-3 to the premier? I've seen and read some extraordinary things that USOs have been put through.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Premier or USO, which to get depends on several factors.
I have always thought the real value of USO rests in the complete customization they offer. Add to that the EREK elevation knob - my favorite among everything I've used - and you have a compelling reason to buy USO.
The down-side to USO, in my opinion, has always been glass. Their glass is thoroughly serviceable; however, it isn't among the best glass in the industry.
John does support shooting sports and this site, and I have had many interactions with John and Jeff and all were great.
As to Premier, the glass is top notch (at least in my 3-15), the turrets are good (but not EREK-good), service has been pretty good, responsiveness has been great, and the scope would probably survive a nuclear blast.
If I needed a very specific scope with unusual setup, I'd buy USO, no question. If I needed a great all-around scope that could do almost anything very well - and could be used to drive tent stakes in a pinch, I'd buy Premier.
For frame of reference, I've owned USO, Hensoldt, Premier, NF, Zeiss... At the moment, the Hensoldt and Premier are on the go-to rifles, the USOs were sold to make room for others. It seems I don't need strange configurations as much as I thought I would. </div></div>
Like i said i own a SN-3. How would you rate the toughness of the SN-3 to the premier? I've seen and read some extraordinary things that USOs have been put through.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Like i said i own a SN-3. How would you rate the toughness of the SN-3 to the premier? I've seen and read some extraordinary things that USOs have been put through. </div></div>
Lots of scopes have gone through lots of things. It really comes down to how often you hear about breakages (not a lot with USO but I do hear about them) and whether or not it gets fixed (other than a couple offhand stories USO seems to be johnny on the spot with their service).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Like i said i own a SN-3. How would you rate the toughness of the SN-3 to the premier? I've seen and read some extraordinary things that USOs have been put through. </div></div>
Lots of scopes have gone through lots of things. It really comes down to how often you hear about breakages (not a lot with USO but I do hear about them) and whether or not it gets fixed (other than a couple offhand stories USO seems to be johnny on the spot with their service).
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Lots of scopes have gone through lots of things. It really comes down to how often you hear about breakages (not a lot with USO but I do hear about them) and whether or not it gets fixed (other than a couple offhand stories USO seems to be johnny on the spot with their service). </div></div>
I've seen a couple of people that say they've had bad service with USO and bad scopes. Now every company makes mistakes. But some that i read i just can't really fathom it. At least not from my experience.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Lots of scopes have gone through lots of things. It really comes down to how often you hear about breakages (not a lot with USO but I do hear about them) and whether or not it gets fixed (other than a couple offhand stories USO seems to be johnny on the spot with their service). </div></div>
I've seen a couple of people that say they've had bad service with USO and bad scopes. Now every company makes mistakes. But some that i read i just can't really fathom it. At least not from my experience.
Re: Premier and US Optics
I haven't ran over a Premier, but I can say I was clumsy enough to run over a USO attached to a rifle in a HSRC soft case with an '03 Trailblazer, and other than the ACI mount the scope was good to go.
Not a test I plan on trying on any other gear at any time in the future.
I haven't ran over a Premier, but I can say I was clumsy enough to run over a USO attached to a rifle in a HSRC soft case with an '03 Trailblazer, and other than the ACI mount the scope was good to go.
Not a test I plan on trying on any other gear at any time in the future.
Re: Premier and US Optics
I bought a S&B M8541 and short dot used, I have never contacted S&B. Bought a MST-100 used, had a question with it, contacted Jeff, sent it in, got it back a few days later, no more questions. Bought a SN 3 1.8-10x37 new, great service and scope.
The M8541 is an amazing scope, but the USOs are to, both have their qualities
We all can split hairs, but they are both great..
Merlinn
I bought a S&B M8541 and short dot used, I have never contacted S&B. Bought a MST-100 used, had a question with it, contacted Jeff, sent it in, got it back a few days later, no more questions. Bought a SN 3 1.8-10x37 new, great service and scope.
The M8541 is an amazing scope, but the USOs are to, both have their qualities
We all can split hairs, but they are both great..
Merlinn
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen a couple of people that say they've had bad service with USO and bad scopes. Now every company makes mistakes. But some that i read i just can't really fathom it. At least not from my experience. </div></div>
USO CS is the hallmark the industry. They recently had 5 scopes come in all because of end-users initially setup the knobs incorrectly. They cheerfully reset each, sent back and guided customer how the do this simple procedure. There is also a post on a customer had a 'gunsmith' mount his scope (why in the world is a gunsmith needed for this anyway?), and this guy mounted steel rings and cranked them down so tight they gouged the aluminum tube. If they did that to my scope, the 'tool' using the tool would have bought that scope. But John at USO took the scope back, send out a new one, and is still running that gouged one on his personal rifle.
Every mechanical device by nature, will wear and some may break for a variety of reasons, but its good to know who will stand behind their products. I also like to support American companies whenever possible (NF-F1, Premier, USO fit this bill).
I bought a used USO Friday and the staff installed a 'large font' Erek knob for me while I waited in the front area. Who else is going to have this kind of service and customization?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen a couple of people that say they've had bad service with USO and bad scopes. Now every company makes mistakes. But some that i read i just can't really fathom it. At least not from my experience. </div></div>
USO CS is the hallmark the industry. They recently had 5 scopes come in all because of end-users initially setup the knobs incorrectly. They cheerfully reset each, sent back and guided customer how the do this simple procedure. There is also a post on a customer had a 'gunsmith' mount his scope (why in the world is a gunsmith needed for this anyway?), and this guy mounted steel rings and cranked them down so tight they gouged the aluminum tube. If they did that to my scope, the 'tool' using the tool would have bought that scope. But John at USO took the scope back, send out a new one, and is still running that gouged one on his personal rifle.
Every mechanical device by nature, will wear and some may break for a variety of reasons, but its good to know who will stand behind their products. I also like to support American companies whenever possible (NF-F1, Premier, USO fit this bill).
I bought a used USO Friday and the staff installed a 'large font' Erek knob for me while I waited in the front area. Who else is going to have this kind of service and customization?
Re: Premier and US Optics
If you own more than one rifle, buy one of each. I did. Great scopes made by people that love what they're doing.
If you own more than one rifle, buy one of each. I did. Great scopes made by people that love what they're doing.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">damn that S&B eye piece is going to rock 50mm!</div></div>
+1, I'm saving up for that one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">damn that S&B eye piece is going to rock 50mm!</div></div>
+1, I'm saving up for that one.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Storm Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen a couple of people that say they've had bad service with USO and bad scopes. Now every company makes mistakes. But some that i read i just can't really fathom it. At least not from my experience. </div></div>
USO CS is the hallmark the industry. They recently had 5 scopes come in all because of end-users initially setup the knobs incorrectly. They cheerfully reset each, sent back and guided customer how the do this simple procedure. There is also a post on a customer had a 'gunsmith' mount his scope (why in the world is a gunsmith needed for this anyway?), and this guy mounted steel rings and cranked them down so tight they gouged the aluminum tube. If they did that to my scope, the 'tool' using the tool would have bought that scope. But John at USO took the scope back, send out a new one, and is still running that gouged one on his personal rifle.
Every mechanical device by nature, will wear and some may break for a variety of reasons, but its good to know who will stand behind their products. I also like to support American companies whenever possible (NF-F1, Premier, USO fit this bill).
I bought a used USO Friday and the staff installed a 'large font' Erek knob for me while I waited in the front area. Who else is going to have this kind of service and customization?
</div></div>
When your paying $3500 for what is essentially a few aluminium tubes and pieces of glass which is 2 of the most abundant substances on the earth i would expect there to be some money in their to pay for the customer service your getting.
$400 scopes now have transferable lifetime warranties, i would expect the $3500 to have something a little better for that kind of money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Storm Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen a couple of people that say they've had bad service with USO and bad scopes. Now every company makes mistakes. But some that i read i just can't really fathom it. At least not from my experience. </div></div>
USO CS is the hallmark the industry. They recently had 5 scopes come in all because of end-users initially setup the knobs incorrectly. They cheerfully reset each, sent back and guided customer how the do this simple procedure. There is also a post on a customer had a 'gunsmith' mount his scope (why in the world is a gunsmith needed for this anyway?), and this guy mounted steel rings and cranked them down so tight they gouged the aluminum tube. If they did that to my scope, the 'tool' using the tool would have bought that scope. But John at USO took the scope back, send out a new one, and is still running that gouged one on his personal rifle.
Every mechanical device by nature, will wear and some may break for a variety of reasons, but its good to know who will stand behind their products. I also like to support American companies whenever possible (NF-F1, Premier, USO fit this bill).
I bought a used USO Friday and the staff installed a 'large font' Erek knob for me while I waited in the front area. Who else is going to have this kind of service and customization?
</div></div>
When your paying $3500 for what is essentially a few aluminium tubes and pieces of glass which is 2 of the most abundant substances on the earth i would expect there to be some money in their to pay for the customer service your getting.
$400 scopes now have transferable lifetime warranties, i would expect the $3500 to have something a little better for that kind of money.
Re: Premier and US Optics
I did this and have tried NF IOR Bushnell S&B Leupolds and US. The only two I have own is the Premier and Zeiss. In my opinion the S&B for features and all around scope is the best. Some ask how is this scope. First answer is it is good but still not a S&B. I do think they are the Gold Standard of scopes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnAE308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you own more than one rifle, buy one of each. I did. Great scopes made by people that love what they're doing. </div></div>
I did this and have tried NF IOR Bushnell S&B Leupolds and US. The only two I have own is the Premier and Zeiss. In my opinion the S&B for features and all around scope is the best. Some ask how is this scope. First answer is it is good but still not a S&B. I do think they are the Gold Standard of scopes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnAE308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you own more than one rifle, buy one of each. I did. Great scopes made by people that love what they're doing. </div></div>
Re: Premier and US Optics
For customization, there is no better option.
As to S&B vs. Premier, "tunnel effect" drives me nuts, and S&B is known for it, and Premier has none (not mine, anyway.) Premier's glass is among the very best (ILya Koshkin's Premier 3-15 review was of my scope), I like turrets (some don't) and I bought mine when they were a steal, so I wouldn't trade it for any S&B I've ever used.
I liked my USOs, EREK alone makes it almost worth the price of admission, but the total package of the premier will have me buying another before I buy another "common configuration" USO.
For customization, there is no better option.
As to S&B vs. Premier, "tunnel effect" drives me nuts, and S&B is known for it, and Premier has none (not mine, anyway.) Premier's glass is among the very best (ILya Koshkin's Premier 3-15 review was of my scope), I like turrets (some don't) and I bought mine when they were a steal, so I wouldn't trade it for any S&B I've ever used.
I liked my USOs, EREK alone makes it almost worth the price of admission, but the total package of the premier will have me buying another before I buy another "common configuration" USO.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As to S&B vs. Premier, "tunnel effect" drives me nuts, and S&B is known for it, and Premier has none (not mine, anyway.)</div></div>
S&B is not known for it. The S&B 5-25x from 7x down to 5x has it. Has never been a problem in my shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As to S&B vs. Premier, "tunnel effect" drives me nuts, and S&B is known for it, and Premier has none (not mine, anyway.)</div></div>
S&B is not known for it. The S&B 5-25x from 7x down to 5x has it. Has never been a problem in my shooting.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For customization, there is no better option.
As to S&B vs. Premier, "tunnel effect" drives me nuts, and S&B is known for it, and Premier has none (not mine, anyway.) Premier's glass is among the very best (ILya Koshkin's Premier 3-15 review was of my scope), I like turrets (some don't) and I bought mine when they were a steal, so I wouldn't trade it for any S&B I've ever used.
I liked my USOs, EREK alone makes it almost worth the price of admission, but the total package of the premier will have me buying another before I buy another "common configuration" USO.</div></div>
This is another non issue crock of shit.
You need to do way more testing to determine whether or not the Premier gets any advantage over the S&B.
I can tell you now that my 4-16x50 has some tunnelling from 4-5x mag BUT other scopes have no tunnelling even some half the price.
What i found was that the S&B gives you 100% of the available FOV all the way through the mag range where as other scope makers cut the FOV down to stop tunnelling.
Personally id rather have the larger FOV at higher magnification and through the whole range than cut off 10% of my FOV just to give the optical illusion of no tunnelling at the lowest mag.
Here :
Premier 3-15x50 = Field of View @100m 3x=12.4m, 15x=2.6m
Schmidt bender 4-16x50 = 2.5m @ 16x
So the Schmidt has almost as much FOV at 16x as the Premier has at 15x
FOV is most important at the top end of the mag range and not at the bottom.
Also the new 3-20x50 wins hands down in the FOV dept with 13m - 2,1 m
Not to mention the 3-20 is 200 grams lighter with also 5x extra mag on the top end.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For customization, there is no better option.
As to S&B vs. Premier, "tunnel effect" drives me nuts, and S&B is known for it, and Premier has none (not mine, anyway.) Premier's glass is among the very best (ILya Koshkin's Premier 3-15 review was of my scope), I like turrets (some don't) and I bought mine when they were a steal, so I wouldn't trade it for any S&B I've ever used.
I liked my USOs, EREK alone makes it almost worth the price of admission, but the total package of the premier will have me buying another before I buy another "common configuration" USO.</div></div>
This is another non issue crock of shit.
You need to do way more testing to determine whether or not the Premier gets any advantage over the S&B.
I can tell you now that my 4-16x50 has some tunnelling from 4-5x mag BUT other scopes have no tunnelling even some half the price.
What i found was that the S&B gives you 100% of the available FOV all the way through the mag range where as other scope makers cut the FOV down to stop tunnelling.
Personally id rather have the larger FOV at higher magnification and through the whole range than cut off 10% of my FOV just to give the optical illusion of no tunnelling at the lowest mag.
Here :
Premier 3-15x50 = Field of View @100m 3x=12.4m, 15x=2.6m
Schmidt bender 4-16x50 = 2.5m @ 16x
So the Schmidt has almost as much FOV at 16x as the Premier has at 15x
FOV is most important at the top end of the mag range and not at the bottom.
Also the new 3-20x50 wins hands down in the FOV dept with 13m - 2,1 m
Not to mention the 3-20 is 200 grams lighter with also 5x extra mag on the top end.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your paying $3500 for what is essentially a few aluminium tubes and pieces of glass which is 2 of the most abundant substances on the earth i would expect there to be some money in their to pay for the customer service your getting. $400 scopes now have transferable lifetime warranties, i would expect the $3500 to have something a little better for that kind of money. </div></div>
Welcome to the Hide MillSpec. You are posting on a forum where members put $3000 glass on rimfire trainers.
$3K is not much for something that will give a lifetime of quality, repeatibility, and maximum performance out of a rifle (I'm talking about all the top-shelf scopes here). A Shelby Cobra is aluminum and glass, the most abundant substances on earth according to you, so why pay $100,000 for a used Concours Cobra whan you can buy a new econobox for under $15,000? (I own the latter). I also own 3 cheaper scopes, and all 3 cost less than half of one USO, but I'll take a USO over 10 of them any day. The cheap scopes are on my plinker rimfires, but my favorite rifles are wearing a NF and and few USO.
Its all about personal preference, priorities, and budget.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your paying $3500 for what is essentially a few aluminium tubes and pieces of glass which is 2 of the most abundant substances on the earth i would expect there to be some money in their to pay for the customer service your getting. $400 scopes now have transferable lifetime warranties, i would expect the $3500 to have something a little better for that kind of money. </div></div>
Welcome to the Hide MillSpec. You are posting on a forum where members put $3000 glass on rimfire trainers.
Its all about personal preference, priorities, and budget.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
You need to do way more testing to determine whether or not the Premier gets any advantage over the S&B.
...</div></div>
MillSpec,
that's exactly the point, ang going off catalogue values is not a good start for "testing" stuff like this and making bold statements, because a little deviation of the numbers will have a big effect on the apparent result. As it happens, the published 15x FOV figure for the 3-15x is a little conservative, it measures pretty much at 2,7m, which compares favorably to the high-end competion.
What you are referring to is "apparent" or "angular" FOV creating the angle the image fills for your eye as a function of magnification and FOV on the target. When apparent FOV is small (relative to the ocular housing), things look like viewed through a tunnel, which is exactly what happens when the "tunneling effect" kicks in, and differences in angular FOV are pretty easy to spot just by looking through the scopes.
There is nothing "cut" from the FOV in a Premier, it gives you the same apparent/angular FOV throughout the whole magnification range, while part of the FOV is "cut" by the tunneling effect in many other scopes (to be 100% precise, the edge of the reticle barely just shows up at low power on the Heritage, too). This is something that is not up to debate or personal preference like some other things about scopes, it can be measured and there's no way to bullshit yourself out of it. The general trend in more modern designs is that tunneling effect is reduced or altogether eliminated even with higher magnification ratio scopes.
This is just technological progress at work, which is a good thing for the customer. I wish everybody relaxed a little during these "my scope is better than yours"-contests. Once you're at a certain level, you can still like Brand X better than Brand Y even though the specs are in favor of Brand Y solely based on personal preference, but there's no reason that somebody asking for a comparative evaluation should necessarily share that preference. Technical properties are just what they are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
You need to do way more testing to determine whether or not the Premier gets any advantage over the S&B.
...</div></div>
MillSpec,
that's exactly the point, ang going off catalogue values is not a good start for "testing" stuff like this and making bold statements, because a little deviation of the numbers will have a big effect on the apparent result. As it happens, the published 15x FOV figure for the 3-15x is a little conservative, it measures pretty much at 2,7m, which compares favorably to the high-end competion.
What you are referring to is "apparent" or "angular" FOV creating the angle the image fills for your eye as a function of magnification and FOV on the target. When apparent FOV is small (relative to the ocular housing), things look like viewed through a tunnel, which is exactly what happens when the "tunneling effect" kicks in, and differences in angular FOV are pretty easy to spot just by looking through the scopes.
There is nothing "cut" from the FOV in a Premier, it gives you the same apparent/angular FOV throughout the whole magnification range, while part of the FOV is "cut" by the tunneling effect in many other scopes (to be 100% precise, the edge of the reticle barely just shows up at low power on the Heritage, too). This is something that is not up to debate or personal preference like some other things about scopes, it can be measured and there's no way to bullshit yourself out of it. The general trend in more modern designs is that tunneling effect is reduced or altogether eliminated even with higher magnification ratio scopes.
This is just technological progress at work, which is a good thing for the customer. I wish everybody relaxed a little during these "my scope is better than yours"-contests. Once you're at a certain level, you can still like Brand X better than Brand Y even though the specs are in favor of Brand Y solely based on personal preference, but there's no reason that somebody asking for a comparative evaluation should necessarily share that preference. Technical properties are just what they are.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
You need to do way more testing to determine whether or not the Premier gets any advantage over the S&B.
...</div></div>
MillSpec,
that's exactly the point, ang going off catalogue values is not a good start for "testing" stuff like this and making bold statements, because a little deviation of the numbers will have a big effect on the apparent result. As it happens, the published 15x FOV figure for the 3-15x is a little conservative, it measures pretty much at 2,7m, which compares favorably to the high-end competion.
What you are referring to is "apparent" or "angular" FOV creating the angle the image fills for your eye as a function of magnification and FOV on the target. When apparent FOV is small (relative to the ocular housing), things look like viewed through a tunnel, which is exactly what happens when the "tunneling effect" kicks in, and differences in angular FOV are pretty easy to spot just by looking through the scopes.
There is nothing "cut" from the FOV in a Premier, it gives you the same apparent/angular FOV throughout the whole magnification range, while part of the FOV is "cut" by the tunneling effect in many other scopes (to be 100% precise, the edge of the reticle barely just shows up at low power on the Heritage, too). This is something that is not up to debate or personal preference like some other things about scopes, it can be measured and there's no way to bullshit yourself out of it. The general trend in more modern designs is that tunneling effect is reduced or altogether eliminated even with higher magnification ratio scopes.
This is just technological progress at work, which is a good thing for the customer. I wish everybody relaxed a little during these "my scope is better than yours"-contests. Once you're at a certain level, you can still like Brand X better than Brand Y even though the specs are in favor of Brand Y solely based on personal preference, but there's no reason that somebody asking for a comparative evaluation should necessarily share that preference. Technical properties are just what they are.
</div></div>
I know how it works i have owned and still own very high money glass.
Just lately people have been branding S&B with this tunnelling slogan and its a crock of shit.. half the people who talk about it dont even own a S&B.
i have done tests vs other scopes recently and noticed that this tunnelling doesnt take anything away from the scope.
i would need a premier to do the actual tests vs the S&B but you cant get them in the UK so its not likely so all i can do is use info from research.
Also i find that the Germans are all about the specifications and the accuracy of their specifications is normally very accurate. which is why i dont mind taking their data as accurate.
But as i said it needs testing properly. The Premier is a very good scope and will have its advantages. But it doesnt have a competitor to the new 3-20x50 yet and thats big thing right now
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
You need to do way more testing to determine whether or not the Premier gets any advantage over the S&B.
...</div></div>
MillSpec,
that's exactly the point, ang going off catalogue values is not a good start for "testing" stuff like this and making bold statements, because a little deviation of the numbers will have a big effect on the apparent result. As it happens, the published 15x FOV figure for the 3-15x is a little conservative, it measures pretty much at 2,7m, which compares favorably to the high-end competion.
What you are referring to is "apparent" or "angular" FOV creating the angle the image fills for your eye as a function of magnification and FOV on the target. When apparent FOV is small (relative to the ocular housing), things look like viewed through a tunnel, which is exactly what happens when the "tunneling effect" kicks in, and differences in angular FOV are pretty easy to spot just by looking through the scopes.
There is nothing "cut" from the FOV in a Premier, it gives you the same apparent/angular FOV throughout the whole magnification range, while part of the FOV is "cut" by the tunneling effect in many other scopes (to be 100% precise, the edge of the reticle barely just shows up at low power on the Heritage, too). This is something that is not up to debate or personal preference like some other things about scopes, it can be measured and there's no way to bullshit yourself out of it. The general trend in more modern designs is that tunneling effect is reduced or altogether eliminated even with higher magnification ratio scopes.
This is just technological progress at work, which is a good thing for the customer. I wish everybody relaxed a little during these "my scope is better than yours"-contests. Once you're at a certain level, you can still like Brand X better than Brand Y even though the specs are in favor of Brand Y solely based on personal preference, but there's no reason that somebody asking for a comparative evaluation should necessarily share that preference. Technical properties are just what they are.
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I know how it works i have owned and still own very high money glass.
Just lately people have been branding S&B with this tunnelling slogan and its a crock of shit.. half the people who talk about it dont even own a S&B.
i have done tests vs other scopes recently and noticed that this tunnelling doesnt take anything away from the scope.
i would need a premier to do the actual tests vs the S&B but you cant get them in the UK so its not likely so all i can do is use info from research.
Also i find that the Germans are all about the specifications and the accuracy of their specifications is normally very accurate. which is why i dont mind taking their data as accurate.
But as i said it needs testing properly. The Premier is a very good scope and will have its advantages. But it doesnt have a competitor to the new 3-20x50 yet and thats big thing right now
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Storm Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your paying $3500 for what is essentially a few aluminium tubes and pieces of glass which is 2 of the most abundant substances on the earth i would expect there to be some money in their to pay for the customer service your getting. $400 scopes now have transferable lifetime warranties, i would expect the $3500 to have something a little better for that kind of money. </div></div>
Welcome to the Hide MillSpec. You are posting on a forum where members put $3000 glass on rimfire trainers.
$3K is not much for something that will give a lifetime of quality, repeatibility, and maximum performance out of a rifle (I'm talking about all the top-shelf scopes here). A Shelby Cobra is aluminum and glass, the most abundant substances on earth according to you, so why pay $100,000 for a used Concours Cobra whan you can buy a new econobox for under $15,000? (I own the latter). I also own 3 cheaper scopes, and all 3 cost less than half of one USO, but I'll take a USO over 10 of them any day. The cheap scopes are on my plinker rimfires, but my favorite rifles are wearing a NF and and few USO.
Its all about personal preference, priorities, and budget. </div></div>
Yes im one of the people your referring to. I have a $5000 NV on my .22 rimfire.
My point was that people think its a bonus to get good customer service. My point is that this is what i expect MINIMUM on a $3500 scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Storm Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your paying $3500 for what is essentially a few aluminium tubes and pieces of glass which is 2 of the most abundant substances on the earth i would expect there to be some money in their to pay for the customer service your getting. $400 scopes now have transferable lifetime warranties, i would expect the $3500 to have something a little better for that kind of money. </div></div>
Welcome to the Hide MillSpec. You are posting on a forum where members put $3000 glass on rimfire trainers.
Its all about personal preference, priorities, and budget. </div></div>
Yes im one of the people your referring to. I have a $5000 NV on my .22 rimfire.
My point was that people think its a bonus to get good customer service. My point is that this is what i expect MINIMUM on a $3500 scope.
Re: Premier and US Optics
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just lately people have been branding S&B with this tunnelling slogan and its a crock of shit.. half the people who talk about it dont even own a S&B.
i have done tests vs other scopes recently and noticed that this tunnelling doesnt take anything away from the scope.
i would need a premier to do the actual tests vs the S&B but you cant get them in the UK so its not likely so all i can do is use info from research.</div></div>
Welcome to the board, MillSpec. I'm afraid you're simply mistaken on this issue. Having owned both a 3-12 S&B and a 3-15 Premier at the same time and compared them extensively:
I can tell you the FOV on powers over 4X or so is virtually identical. With the Gen II reticle it is very easy for the user to measure the actual FOV. But on 3X the Premier's FOV is quite noticeably larger. At some point in the magnification range the actual FOV of the S&B stops increasing as power is reduced. This results in a reduction of the apparent FOV and a tunnel effect. It is what it is.
It's nothing against S&B, lots of very nice scopes do this.
Whether this matters at all to the user is up to the user, of course. Many don't use their scopes on the lower end very much at all. Or when they do, the FOV provided at 4X is more than enough so they don't miss the extra amount 3X could offer.
Personally between those two scopes, it wasn't a huge deal for my use but it was certainly a check in the Premier's column. There were several things I liked better about the S&B, but that wasn't one of them. When I use a scope with this attribute, I figure out the point at which the tunneling begins and consider that the low end of the scope. Reducing the power is of no value to me if the FOV isn't increasing.
Like I said this happens with lots of scopes and isn't a big deal to most people. But it isn't something that's made up. If the user is one who will be bothered by it, it's an important attribute he should look at when scope shopping.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just lately people have been branding S&B with this tunnelling slogan and its a crock of shit.. half the people who talk about it dont even own a S&B.
i have done tests vs other scopes recently and noticed that this tunnelling doesnt take anything away from the scope.
i would need a premier to do the actual tests vs the S&B but you cant get them in the UK so its not likely so all i can do is use info from research.</div></div>
Welcome to the board, MillSpec. I'm afraid you're simply mistaken on this issue. Having owned both a 3-12 S&B and a 3-15 Premier at the same time and compared them extensively:
I can tell you the FOV on powers over 4X or so is virtually identical. With the Gen II reticle it is very easy for the user to measure the actual FOV. But on 3X the Premier's FOV is quite noticeably larger. At some point in the magnification range the actual FOV of the S&B stops increasing as power is reduced. This results in a reduction of the apparent FOV and a tunnel effect. It is what it is.
It's nothing against S&B, lots of very nice scopes do this.
Whether this matters at all to the user is up to the user, of course. Many don't use their scopes on the lower end very much at all. Or when they do, the FOV provided at 4X is more than enough so they don't miss the extra amount 3X could offer.
Personally between those two scopes, it wasn't a huge deal for my use but it was certainly a check in the Premier's column. There were several things I liked better about the S&B, but that wasn't one of them. When I use a scope with this attribute, I figure out the point at which the tunneling begins and consider that the low end of the scope. Reducing the power is of no value to me if the FOV isn't increasing.
Like I said this happens with lots of scopes and isn't a big deal to most people. But it isn't something that's made up. If the user is one who will be bothered by it, it's an important attribute he should look at when scope shopping.
Re: Premier and US Optics
Most S&B scopes have a smaller FOV on the low end magnification but a larger FOV on the top end.
This whole thing will need to be revisited when the 3-20x50 PMII comes in April.
The new scope has the potential to get its competition scrambling to compete.
Most S&B scopes have a smaller FOV on the low end magnification but a larger FOV on the top end.
This whole thing will need to be revisited when the 3-20x50 PMII comes in April.
The new scope has the potential to get its competition scrambling to compete.
Re: Premier and US Optics
Out of all the scope manufactures mentioned I’ve only owned US Optics. To me they’re the best scope I’ve owned. I doubt my eyes could tell much of a difference between the optics of the other manufactures mentioned. I will say my USO is built like a tank. Also what makes me stay a loyal USO owner is their list of custom options and the best CS I’ve ever experienced.
When I ordered my first USO scope I called last minute and ask for a reticle change. No problem I was told, however my scope was done and shipped that day before the change could be made. When I received the scope with the wrong reticle I called USO and John said no worries. Just go ahead mount and use the scope I received until the new one with correct reticle could be shipped. I said are you sure I’d hate to scratch it or get ring marks on it. John simple said our finish is harder than the hubs of hell and scratching it would be very unlikely. He was right! I’m not sure any other scope manufacture would offer that type of customer service.
They’ve earned my business!
Out of all the scope manufactures mentioned I’ve only owned US Optics. To me they’re the best scope I’ve owned. I doubt my eyes could tell much of a difference between the optics of the other manufactures mentioned. I will say my USO is built like a tank. Also what makes me stay a loyal USO owner is their list of custom options and the best CS I’ve ever experienced.
When I ordered my first USO scope I called last minute and ask for a reticle change. No problem I was told, however my scope was done and shipped that day before the change could be made. When I received the scope with the wrong reticle I called USO and John said no worries. Just go ahead mount and use the scope I received until the new one with correct reticle could be shipped. I said are you sure I’d hate to scratch it or get ring marks on it. John simple said our finish is harder than the hubs of hell and scratching it would be very unlikely. He was right! I’m not sure any other scope manufacture would offer that type of customer service.
They’ve earned my business!
