prepping for carrer change from military to law enforcement(leo's suggestions appreciated)

[murtaughf3]

I currently have 16 months left on my current enlistment, that will put me at 12 years. I am very seriously considering going reserve, and becoming a cop full time. There is a possibility I could enlist for 3 more years but that would put me at high year ten year(15 years) if I don't make rank(had some fitness issues preventing me from promoting, then go reserve. Since then I am taking my fitness seriously, not only for my job, but for my little girls as well.

I have always wanted to be a police officer since I can remember,but joined the Air Force instead. Without discussing work issues, the option to get out has been placed before me. My wife has said she will support me becoming a cop, if that is where I believe the Lord is calling me.

I have a few questions I'd like to ask some law enforcement officers(police,marshals, us marshals, dea, law enforcement park ranger, game warden, just about anyone with a badge in some sort of law enforcement) if possible. I'm not asking you to respond in the forum because you may not want the public to know your law enforcement. So if you don't want to post in public and wouldn't mind talking to me please send me a message.

My plan.
Currently attending college to complete bachelors in criminal justice with minor in homeland security.(I've heard the arguments about this but it interests me).

Starting to shoot pistol more and more to become more comfortable, also practicing my long range rifle precision shooting, eventually would like to join swat/sniper/rescue team.

Have some tactical training(clearing rooms, convoy, and close quarters combat.

Maybe even do some 2 gun or 3 gun competitions just to stay fresh on gun transition.

Most importantly will be staying fit.

If you have any other suggestion you'd like to share please do. Only thing I ask is please no, oh just stay 20, just tuff it out, or related comments, this has been a long discussion with my family and we did not come to this conclusion lightly, and we are hoping things change to I can stay active, but not holding my breath. We are just ready for a change, we NEED a change for my sanity. Thank you.

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

Police work may not be the best choice for your sanity. If you want to get on a swat team find a department with a full time team. Being a full time road guy and part time team is a hand full sometimes. Be ready for long hours, swing shifts, micro managing supervisors, and gray hair. Its really not a horrible gig. You have lots of freedom and lots benefits but just like everything it has a down side. PM me if you have specific questions. I'll be more than happy to help.

 

[WPG]

Take the fire test....................you will thank me.

 

[murtaughf3]

Thanks for the input guys. The PD I'm currently looking at has what I believe to be a part time SWAT team. There schedule is 10 hour days 4 on 3 off, I expect it's probably closer to 11 maybe 12 hours. I've been on 12 hour shifts 5 days week most of the last 11 years so long hours are nothing new. I like the idea of having the structure, and while I know there always BS in no matter what you do I hope there to be less than what I'm dealing with now(for the first time in my almost 11 years I'm actually not liking my job, and don't like being there, I guess I should feel lucky it has taken that long to feel that way).

Ok, WPG, gotta ask and I hope I don't sound like a complete idiot on a public forum, but what is the fire test? Are you refering to a qualification test? Or the test where you have to old your barrel in something like a 6 inch hole with each hand and can only touch the side once with your dominant hand and twice with non dominant hand out of x amount of shots. Can't remember where I read that but it was online so it must be true, LOL.

 

[LongRifle75]

I believe hes talking about a Fire Department test and becoming a firefighter. I love my job, sometimes I wish I had stayed in. I could be retiring in a few months BUT who even knows If Id still be here if right now if I had being that I came from a Marine Infantry MOS.

I dont know about where you stay but around here if you want to be on a full time team you better find one in a major city or metropolitan area, other than that part time is about the best youll be able to find. SRT Teams cost MONEY and remember youre working on taxpayers dollars now so most agencies unless Federal or major metropolitan cant afford full time teams. If you do find a full time team with an agency itll be a long hard process to get onto and youll really have to earn your way on the team. That being said I really enjoy it. Im on a part time team that might as well be full time as much as we get used. Shooting skills and fitness are essential. When I first started with SRT I was told you just lost the right to be out of shape!

Just be prepared for a high operational tempo in LE, long hours, bitching about overtime, doing more with less, and pretty much a thankless job, even more so than the military. Youll be told that everyday by the people you try to help and protect. If you got any other questions throw em out there.................

 

[WPG]

The Fire Dept test. What he ^ said.

 

[kraigWY]

First off, what you don't want to do on the oral board is tell them you are signing up for SWAT. Police Departments don't hire swat officers, they are chosen from among the ranks. They also don't care if you can shoot or not. They do care that you qualify in the academy.

Nothing wrong with getting into action type shooting competitions, multi gun three gun and such. But the PD's don't really care. They are more Public Relations then shooting sports.

They would be interested if you had a bunch of BS college classes in Psychology, Sociology and such. Totally BS but they like it, it looks good on a resume for a job in LE.

Most departments require that you spend 5 years on the job before you put in for special job categories such as SWAT, EOD, K-9, etc.

Keep your shooting hobbies to yourself until after you complete your probation period.

Also most PD's are supportive of Guard and Reserve............because they have to be, since they most all get federal funds they can't discriminate and have to give you time off for G&R duties. They wont admit it but they don't like giving you time off and paying you 15 days a year.

At my oral board, knowing I was in the guard they asked my ETS, I told them, but I didn't add that I'd planned on re-upping. In fact I spent my whole 20 years LE career in the National Guard.

Except for making me a firearms instructor they didn't really know about my shooting habits, sure I carried a sniper rifle but that was at the request of my shift supervisor, he knew my background. The department per se didn't find out until they wanted to start a SWAT team, they went to the Army for rifle/carbine training. The army sent them to the NG telling them that we, the Guard had a Marksmanship program and they, the army sent their people to the guard sniper training. When they went to the Guard, they told them the OIC of the Guards marksmanship program was a member of the Anchorage Police Dept. That being me. Turns out I double dipped on that project. The Guard put me on orders and the Dept paid me to do the SWAT rifle training.

Point being, they didn't care about my shooting as long as I qualified, that is until they found out they had the assets to do their training, then they were happy.

I have no doubt that if I told them my plans to stay in the guard and shoot for the guard at the oral board, I wouldn't have been hired. That's not what they are looking for when they are hiring cops.

 

[Graham]

Law enforcement isn't what it used to be and it's probably not what you think it is. If you want to give it a try do your homework and pick a good department.

If your interest is in tactical operations pick a department that has a good team. There are plenty of Tier 3 teams out there that have no objective standards of qualification or retention, assemble unsupervised for so-called 'training' ten or eleven times a year, and when called-out the primary objective is to not screw up. These kinds of teams are the ones responsible for most of the legal and ethical disasters we see on TV because, quite frankly, they are a danger to themselves and to others and should be disbanded.

The reality of it is that a criminal justice degree doesn't matter for getting-in to LE, your shooting skills are almost irrelevant for most of what you will do, and your CQB experience might even be a hindrance to getting on a sub-standard team. Stay in school, get a four year degree in something substantive, learn a foreign language and start writing the federal tests like the Treasury Agent Exam.

 

[murtaughf3]

Thanks everyone for their suggestions. They are appreciated and helpful, hopefully not only to myself but maybe someone help thinking about law enforcement.

I full expect long days, after 11 years active duty, long 12-14 hour days are nothing new to me. I also know and expect that each department has their own way to train there officers in combat type situations if you will. I guess I'm just throwing it out there that I have some concept of this type of training, not implying it will get me the job or I think it will get me the job.

I don't expect to walk in and join the sway team/sniper/ or detective for that matter. I fully know you have to pay your dues and these positions are competitive.

I've also read several things things about the criminal justice degree(I'm not set on this). I know some departments don't require a degree, and some do. For example my local PD requires min 60 college hours. They also offset this by xxx amount of military training. I've also consider criminal psychology, or something that could assist in make detective if swat/sniper falls through.

Once again thanks guys for the input.

 

[Victory]

You should start practicing your hand to hand. You are going to want to be sharp for when you put a beat down on perps. Shooting... Everything revolves around this. I would begin shooting with as many weapons as possible, you never know when you will run dry and have to Kung fu kick a perps pistol out of his hand and use it on him. You would look pretty dumb after a sweet Kung fu kick if you didn't know how to operate that High Point.

 

[TenZero]

You need to concentrate on writing complete sentences without grammatical errors and typos. If you can't write solid reports, they won't hire you. Period. No matter how well you can shoot.

 

[Graham]

You need to concentrate on writing complete sentences without grammatical errors and typos. If you can't write solid reports, they won't hire you. Period. No matter how well you can shoot.

Good point, as far as it goes.... But then again, don't be so sure: I once had a Captain that was functionally illiterate.

 

[kraigWY]

That depends, when I went through my oral interview the chief went over my application, laughed and said, "you can't spell worth a shit" then hired me. What they didn't talk about in my interview was shooting. It never came up.

You'll learn to write reports in the academy. I think oral communications is more important then written at the hiring phase. You can tell a lot more about a person face to face then you can reading what they wrote.

A professional appearance at the oral interview is critical, not just in LE but any profession. Answer any and all questions by looking in the eyes of the person asking the question.

Weather you give the right answer or not, look them in the eye and be assertive. They are not looking for cops, they are looking for people they can turn into cops.

 

[hankpac]

If I was hiring/interviewing you, I would want to know more about: "Without discussing work issues".
A problem employee is a problem anywhere he goes. I wouldn't want to give a firearm, and turn loose someone who has "Work issues".
Not saying you have problems, but I can assure you a statement like that hidden in with all the other stuff is a red flag, and I would zero in on it in an interview.

 

[Tact999]

I currently have 16 months left on my current enlistment, that will put me at 12 years. I am very seriously considering going reserve, and becoming a cop full time. There is a possibility I could enlist for 3 more years but that would put me at high year ten year(15 years) if I don't make rank(had some fitness issues preventing me from promoting, then go reserve. Since then I am taking my fitness seriously, not only for my job, but for my little girls as well.

I have always wanted to be a police officer since I can remember,but joined the Air Force instead. Without discussing work issues, the option to get out has been placed before me. My wife has said she will support me becoming a cop, if that is where I believe the Lord is calling me.

I have a few questions I'd like to ask some law enforcement officers(police,marshals, us marshals, dea, law enforcement park ranger, game warden, just about anyone with a badge in some sort of law enforcement) if possible. I'm not asking you to respond in the forum because you may not want the public to know your law enforcement. So if you don't want to post in public and wouldn't mind talking to me please send me a message.

My plan.
Currently attending college to complete bachelors in criminal justice with minor in homeland security.(I've heard the arguments about this but it interests me).

Starting to shoot pistol more and more to become more comfortable, also practicing my long range rifle precision shooting, eventually would like to join swat/sniper/rescue team.

Have some tactical training(clearing rooms, convoy, and close quarters combat.

Maybe even do some 2 gun or 3 gun competitions just to stay fresh on gun transition.

Most importantly will be staying fit.

If you have any other suggestion you'd like to share please do. Only thing I ask is please no, oh just stay 20, just tuff it out, or related comments, this has been a long discussion with my family and we did not come to this conclusion lightly, and we are hoping things change to I can stay active, but not holding my breath. We are just ready for a change, we NEED a change for my sanity. Thank you.

I have a few similarities. I did 11 active in the Corps. I loved it for numerous reasons but last trip to Iraq I missed the birth of my second girl and realized I would always be deployed and never home. I searched for a career that would fill the void left by the military and allow me to buy my time back in the military. That way I didn't lose it and it gets added to my current time for retirement. I found an agency that mimics some military aspects and had waivers for age for veterans. Take a look at some federal agencies, they advertise on usajobs and will always be hiring. You must have patience as the gubmint is slow in the hiring process. If there is something I can help you with let me know.


Tapatalk2

 

[SLVGW360]

Murtaughf3,

From the Game Warden angle there are numerous states that the game warden position is law enforcement only. I don't know much about them. I have heard that in some states the game warden position is actually a promotion from trooper. In the mountain west, it tends toward multi-purpose responsibility. I am in a state where you are biologist first. Bachelor of Science in biology, wildlife management or qualifying related field is minimum. One gets hired because of the biological, technical, people and practical skills. Those who make the cut (it is actually a tough screening process) are then sent to police academy. After nearly a full year the trainees are assigned to their district. This is truly a jack-of-all trades and master of as many as you possibly can kind of job. The warden's responsibilities include: wildlife management, law enforcement, public services and information/education. You are mostly alone patrolling and managing wildlife over about a 1000 square miles on average. Most of our guys and gals grew up in the country hunting and shooting.

I hope this helps just a little.

Good Luck,

RB

 

[Graham]

OP, you said that you had sixteen months left. What is your current enlistment?

All military jobs are not the same. If you're an MP you probably won't need much more to move over into a County corrections job. From there you could go to road patrol. If you're SF you probably don't want to be a cop because you would be bored and frustrated, not to mention that it will be hard to get hired by a command staff intimidated by your experience.

If you are serious about serious law enforcement get a four year degree. At the same time learn a language like Dari, Pashtun, Arabic or Chinese. Then acquire a skill, like Pilot. If your grades are good continue and get a professional degree like accountant or lawyer. Spend your summers getting overseas travel experience: Europe is a good grounding; Africa by yourself is better for the pucker factor. Then start making applications in the Federal system. And make sure to a pick a good agency. The FBI isn't what it was: It's better; and worse. And there's a big difference between the quality of criminal investigator at the Secret Service vs. HUD.

Or, move to a small town, get a part-time LE job for $9 an hour, have them put you through the academy, get to know people, and spend your time arresting drunks and chasing speeders (and occasionally arresting a drunk speeder). I'm not putting down the work, I know quite a few very good cops who are perfectly satisfied with doing that and are also very good at it.

Bottom line: All LE work isn't the same. All departments are not the same. Choose carefully. But first, develop a goal and have a plan.

 

[TheTick]

What everyone else said plus: Remember that you will be starting over. For lack of a better term, your military time "won't matter". You'll be a boot all over again with lower seniority to the 22 year old college kid hired 6 months before you got there. Sometimes that is a hard pill to swallow for some of the military guys that are hard chargers.

 

[murtaughf3]

What everyone else said plus: Remember that you will be starting over. For lack of a better term, your military time "won't matter". You'll be a boot all over again with lower seniority to the 22 year old college kid hired 6 months before you got there. Sometimes that is a hard pill to swallow for some of the military guys that are hard chargers.

I know what you mean about that. I've been at my currently base for almsot 4 years. My two previous bases were two of the buiest bases for my job, 5 or 6 das aweek 12-14 hour days. Section I worked I was towards the top of the food chain. Now at my current base I"m chop liver, most guys have been here 8-10 years and set in there ways, will not change, and not open to suggestion because that's not how it works here. It frustating becasue even those these guys have been in longer, I have most of the some expierence as them, not all of it but the majority of it because of the places I've been and they haven't been. So I know what it's like to start again at the bottom.

You should start practicing your hand to hand. You are going to want to be sharp for when you put a beat down on perps. Shooting... Everything revolves around this. I would begin shooting with as many weapons as possible, you never know when you will run dry and have to Kung fu kick a perps pistol out of his hand and use it on him. You would look pretty dumb after a sweet Kung fu kick if you didn't know how to operate that High Point.

One of the guys I work with does the Jiu Jistu stufff, was thinking about starting that.

If I was hiring/interviewing you, I would want to know more about: "Without discussing work issues".
A problem employee is a problem anywhere he goes. I wouldn't want to give a firearm, and turn loose someone who has "Work issues".
Not saying you have problems, but I can assure you a statement like that hidden in with all the other stuff is a red flag, and I would zero in on it in an interview.

See my previous post about starting at the bottom, that covers up most of the issues. Another thing is I don't do my job at my current base, well I do, but maybe only once a month, I hate not working.But on the upside I am attending classes and knocking out my degree at the expense of the USAF.

Murtaughf3,

From the Game Warden angle there are numerous states that the game warden position is law enforcement only. I don't know much about them. I have heard that in some states the game warden position is actually a promotion from trooper. In the mountain west, it tends toward multi-purpose responsibility. I am in a state where you are biologist first. Bachelor of Science in biology, wildlife management or qualifying related field is minimum. One gets hired because of the biological, technical, people and practical skills. Those who make the cut (it is actually a tough screening process) are then sent to police academy. After nearly a full year the trainees are assigned to their district. This is truly a jack-of-all trades and master of as many as you possibly can kind of job. The warden's responsibilities include: wildlife management, law enforcement, public services and information/education. You are mostly alone patrolling and managing wildlife over about a 1000 square miles on average. Most of our guys and gals grew up in the country hunting and shooting.

I hope this helps just a little.

Good Luck,

RB

I've been watching the TV Wardens, so while I might get blasted for admitting this. I know it's not the same cause it's tv, but I figure it will give me an idea or a concept.

OP, you said that you had sixteen months left. What is your current enlistment?

All military jobs are not the same. If you're an MP you probably won't need much more to move over into a County corrections job. From there you could go to road patrol. If you're SF you probably don't want to be a cop because you would be bored and frustrated, not to mention that it will be hard to get hired by a command staff intimidated by your experience.

If you are serious about serious law enforcement get a four year degree. At the same time learn a language like Dari, Pashtun, Arabic or Chinese. Then acquire a skill, like Pilot. If your grades are good continue and get a professional degree like accountant or lawyer. Spend your summers getting overseas travel experience: Europe is a good grounding; Africa by yourself is better for the pucker factor. Then start making applications in the Federal system. And make sure to a pick a good agency. The FBI isn't what it was: It's better; and worse. And there's a big difference between the quality of criminal investigator at the Secret Service vs. HUD.

Or, move to a small town, get a part-time LE job for $9 an hour, have them put you through the academy, get to know people, and spend your time arresting drunks and chasing speeders (and occasionally arresting a drunk speeder). I'm not putting down the work, I know quite a few very good cops who are perfectly satisfied with doing that and are also very good at it.

Bottom line: All LE work isn't the same. All departments are not the same. Choose carefully. But first, develop a goal and have a plan.

My current enlsitement is 6 years, I'll be at 12 when it complete 28 Aug 2014

 

[Slapchop]

If you don't mind me asking murtaughf3, what exactly is your MOS in the AF?

 

[SLVGW360]

I've been watching the TV Wardens, so while I might get blasted for admitting this. I know it's not the same cause it's tv, but I figure it will give me an idea or a concept.

Barely scratches the surface.

 

[murtaughf3]

If you don't mind me asking murtaughf3, what exactly is your MOS in the AF?

2T2X1, Air Transportation. Loading the cargo planes with cargo, and anything you see at a normal airport(except maintenance, control tower, and parking the planes) we do bags, checkin, TSA functions, and alot of other stuff.

Barely scratches the surface.

Like I said early, this is what I figure, but I thought it would be a very very watered down concept

 

[SLVGW360]

Not being critical. What we do is sometimes very much like that while at other times more office or meeting oriented. Wildlife management is more about managing people and the environment than directly managing critters. There is a bit of hands on with critters, don't get me wrong. There is also a lot of letter writing regarding human impacts to wildlife habitats. Meeting to educate communities about living with wildlife and the value wildlife has to the local economies. Too many people have lost touch with where there food comes from and have little understanding of the natural world around them. More scratches on the surface...

 

[fmrabnmp]

Be a trashman. You still get to take out the trash but it wont shoot at you...lol. Seriously, there is no more noble an undertaking than to put the needs of your community above your own and stand up for the weak, bullied, and abused. It's a fucked up, thankless job at times but it is one you will look back on, and, though it happens infrequently, know you made a difference to someone somewhere along your path. Good luck and thanks for your service.

 

[andydrose72]

I am not a police officer I am a detention officer but I can say people that express a high intrest in things like tac teams at interview times and during probation periods are viewed as a liability to the agency. Learn about mental health and learn verbal judo. And express you intrest in helping the public. Answer all questions with fuzzy bunnies in mind.

 

[hippyshake]

I hate to be the one to say it, but if you couldnt hack it in the air force your probably not cop material.

 

[Bob7608]

people on the hide will hate you and call you a gun grabbing cop who is out to violate their rights and spout bullshit about protecting bankers or something ridiculous.
Edit: wait im getting off topic here.
I got my start in County corrections, it gave me an opportunity to deal with all types of people Mental patients, gang members, etc.
got my fill of that after a year and went to the police academy. My agency sponsored me and paid me while i was in the academy. I'd try for this route if i were you but you can check to see if your GI bill covers it. Most academys do however you will have to prrovide your own firearm, ammo, and probably your duty belt/rig. When you take your test prior service military get extra points. When you pass you'll get a personal history statement (PHS) when you get that PHS you better be telling the truth because if you lie on it you are done with that agency. Any agency you appy to afterwards will probably get a copy of your PHS or a reason why you were rejected, this varies by agency. Throw an an oral board where you'll have a a few people from the department and/or city employees asking you scenario based and ethical questions. best bet is to analyze it and give the best possible solution and stick with it. they are not looking for the absolute right answe but one you will beabl to articulateth. After you pass your PHS/polygraph you'll do a psychological and drug screen. These aren't hard and same as above just answer truthfully. On drug usage, some agencies reject you if you ever used any type of drug, some are more lenient on marijuana but can't within the past year or so. ( like i said it VARIES)
then comes final interview with the chief generally when you get to this point you're almost hired however it ain't official till he gives you the job. On the interviews dont show up like some scrub off the street you better be suit and tie, well groomed and dont smell like ass. keep squared away. thats pretty much it, if you can do some ride alongs with a department you are interested it it will give you some insight of what you are getting yourself into before you commit.

 

[Slapchop]

people on the hide will hate you and call you a gun grabbing cop who is out to violate their rights and spout bullshit about protecting bankers or something ridiculous.
Edit: wait im getting off topic here.
I got my start in County corrections, it gave me an opportunity to deal with all types of people Mental patients, gang members, etc.
got my fill of that after a year and went to the police academy. My agency sponsored me and paid me while i was in the academy. I'd try for this route if i were you but you can check to see if your GI bill covers it. Most academys do however you will have to prrovide your own firearm, ammo, and probably your duty belt/rig. When you take your test prior service military get extra points. When you pass you'll get a personal history statement (PHS) when you get that PHS you better be telling the truth because if you lie on it you are done with that agency. Any agency you appy to afterwards will probably get a copy of your PHS or a reason why you were rejected, this varies by agency. Throw an an oral board where you'll have a a few people from the department and/or city employees asking you scenario based and ethical questions. best bet is to analyze it and give the best possible solution and stick with it. they are not looking for the absolute right answe but one you will beabl to articulateth. After you pass your PHS/polygraph you'll do a psychological and drug screen. These aren't hard and same as above just answer truthfully. On drug usage, some agencies reject you if you ever used any type of drug, some are more lenient on marijuana but can't within the past year or so. ( like i said it VARIES)
then comes final interview with the chief generally when you get to this point you're almost hired however it ain't official till he gives you the job. On the interviews dont show up like some scrub off the street you better be suit and tie, well groomed and dont smell like ass. keep squared away. thats pretty much it, if you can do some ride alongs with a department you are interested it it will give you some insight of what you are getting yourself into before you commit.

This right here and what Kraig said is the best advice of the thread. Heed it wisely if you're going to pursue this career path. Especially the part about being honest. They catch you lying you're done.