Price Gouging

Jotto113

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Sep 28, 2018
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At what point in time does our industry stop price gouging on firearms and ammunition? Seems to be a sufficient amount of ammunition available, yet the prices are still outrageous!
 
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Bgriff008

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When people stop paying the price gouging prices. It’s absolutely absurd. But you have so many panic buying. And now with small arms and ammo banned from Russia, its only gonna get worse. I don’t see anything changing until Biden is out of office. At this point people just need to buy enough to defend themselves and wait.
 

hlee

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    Gun stores and manufacturers do not exist to allow you to exercise your 2nd amendment rights. They exist to make money. Profiteers will charge what they charge until they can no longer move the inventory on hand.

    It does seem that this industry has more than its share of vendors looking for suckers. But, it also has more than its share of knee-jerk reactionary buyers that keep them in business.
     

    aslrookie

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    I set a threshold for how much ammo I want on hand as a minimum. Everything above that is free to shoot or have as surplus. Stacking guns and ammo is cool and all, but not shooting and losing proficiency means your hoarding was for nothing.

    I also focus on being efficient with my drills at the range. When I used to burn 200-300 rounds in a range day is now down to sub 100. I buy a couple boxes of ammo here and there to basically replenish what I shoot.

    I’ve only noticed certain firearms go up in price. A Sig MCX used to be had sub $2k all day long. Now they’re damn near $3k. However, something like an SR25 or LMT has remained the same price but just a lot harder to get. I’d argue that not much has changed for the “average” gun owner. They’re still cheap ARs on the shelves and plenty of 20rd ammo boxes. It’s those that seek niche’ guns and bulk ammo getting raked over the coals.
     

    hlee

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    It’s not just bulk ammo, and it’s not just cheaper than dirt. Mike high shooting wants $45 per box of 20 for Hornady 6.5 creedmor 140 gr eld-m cartridges (before tax and shipping). That’s $19 more per box more than I was paying locally, pre-covid. If it wasn’t out of stock, I’d say they can keep it.
     

    hafejd30

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    We were all told to

    “buy more ammo”

    Some listened,

    Some waited

    You’ll never see old prices again. Nothing to do even with the political aspect just for the fact that inflation is at work and everything will be more expensive.

    If you find the ammo at a reasonable price then

    Buy More Ammo

    In a couple years you’ll look back and say “man that used to be $xxxx, wish I had bought it then”

    We all do it. At this point availability takes precedence over price. To an extent
     

    Snuby642

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    I think retail is systemically hozing us. All of them.

    Independant manufacturers that sell direct, not so much.

    The difference is blatant.
     

    HousePlant

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    The plus side is, not going to Academy (which is always a K-Mart-ish mess) and Cabelas (which is quickly becoming a massive sucker upper of actually good outdoor stores and no longer pays their employees well while forcing them to shove their Visa card down your throat everywhere you walk) has been nice.
     

    UpSideDown

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    LOL price gouging. My material costs *JUST THIS YEAR* since March have gone up on average 150%. My average raw steel plate/tubing materials costs are 250% of what they were in March. This isn't price gouging, this is the new price. In another year it'll be up even more. I know businesses in the same space as mine are now being rationed for material, they can only purchase about 70% of the volume of steel they did last year as their ration. We're likely about to hit some massive logistical problems in the next few months directly tied to over the road trucking and sea shipping; a lot of things will likely get a lot worse at that point.
     

    eastexsteve

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    At what point in time does our industry stop price gouging on firearms and ammunition? Seems to be a sufficient amount of ammunition available, yet the prices are still outrageous!
    Bought any lumber lately? I'm trying to finish out a cabin on my place, and I decided to wait until prices went down. They seem to have followed ammo prices. The lumber quality and supply got better, but prices have only come back down 25 percent maybe.
     

    kindabitey

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    At what point in time does our industry stop price gouging on firearms and ammunition? Seems to be a sufficient amount of ammunition available, yet the prices are still outrageous!
    Since this is in the semi-auto thread, 6061-T6 AL is up 85% in the last six months, and is on an upward forecast for the next 8 months.
    But, what do I know, we only use 3 tons a week.
     

    308pirate

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    At what point in time does our industry stop price gouging on firearms and ammunition? Seems to be a sufficient amount of ammunition available, yet the prices are still outrageous!

    Go be poor somewhere else

    ETA: your assessment of ammunition supply is bullshit. Retailers are facing a 36 month backlog for US made primers.
     
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    BoilerUP

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    W54/XM-388

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    "Price Gouging" usually is just a B.S. term that people throw around when they didn't stock up on things when they were cheap / plentiful / available and instead want the Government to go send some men with guns to force folks to sell them things at a lower price because they deserve to get stuff cheap.

    Funny how those same whiners never seem to think it would be just as fair for the government to send men with guns to stop them getting discounts and clearances and make them pay full price because the sellers also deserve to get all their money...

    It's also usually used against small business owners or individuals and results in essentially the government getting to steal while getting praised and nobody having anything so well it's all fair, now nobody gets anything and you can all starve but at least you all starve together.
    Meanwhile if you are a nice big corporation and for example get a monopoly on some meds, well that's no big deal when you hike the price for critical medications by 1000% that's just getting shareholder value...
     

    flyfisher117

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    At what point in time does our industry stop price gouging on firearms and ammunition? Seems to be a sufficient amount of ammunition available, yet the prices are still outrageous!
    Is there sufficient amounts? That's news to me.

    Supply is still low and demand is still high.
     
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    TxWelder35

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    Bought any lumber lately? I'm trying to finish out a cabin on my place, and I decided to wait until prices went down. They seem to have followed ammo prices. The lumber quality and supply got better, but prices have only come back down 25 percent maybe.
    2x4x8 was back down to like $3.50 when I was at Home Depot yesterday
     

    eastexsteve

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    I wish the government would socialize ammo production.
    That way everyone would get their fair share every month.
    And you wouldn't have to be bothered with planning ahead.

    BugIn
    Isn't it Switzerland who issues a rifle and ammo to every male 18 or older?
     

    Federal_Agent_Guy

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    Seen this more than a few times over the last 50 years I've been shooting. Shortages come and shortages go. Buy during the fat times, save for the lean times.

    Is there sufficient amounts? That's news to me.

    Supply is still low and demand is still high.

    There is definitely not sufficient amounts. This not market based. This ongoing "shortage" with bare ammo shelves 1.5 years into it will absolutely kill the sector and less and less people will be involved with shooting sports. This will translate into less voting power over time and that's already been headed in the wrong direction for too long. Everyone crowing they got theirs and you shoulda stocked up when you had the chance is just announcing the death knell of the industry, IMHO.
     
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    W54/XM-388

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    There is definitely not sufficient amounts. This not market based. This ongoing "shortage" with bare ammo shelves 1.5 years into it will absolutely kill the sector and less and less people will be involved with shooting sports. This will translate into less voting power over time and that's already been headed in the wrong direction for too long. Everyone crowing they got theirs and you shoulda stocked up when you had the chance is just announcing the death knell of the industry, IMHO.

    Those who stocked up when we could, are what kept the production lines going, without us being steady buyers, there would be no capacity for more.
    The industry plans capacity based on steady long term sales, not sudden spikes.

    Who you should be blaming is all the come latelys that decided they needed their massive ammo piles right this moment.

    That being said, at the Local Gun Stores here, I'm seeing ammo freely back on the shelf for those that want to buy it.
    It's not going to be at give away prices but not all that much over. Prices are going to be permanently a lot higher, as is the price for most actual goods now that the government spent $10 trillion or so in funny money over 4 years or how ever long it takes to push all the bills through.
     

    Hobo Hilton

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    Every month spend a fixed amount on ammo (or any of the other things you consume). Store the commodity away.

    Here is what that strategy is called:
    Dollar-cost averaging is a simple technique that entails investing a fixed amount of money in the same fund or stock at regular intervals over a long period of time.
    Make no mistake, dollar-cost averaging is a strategy, and it's one that almost certainly will get results that are as good or better than aiming to buy low and sell high. As many experts will tell you, nobody can time the market.
     

    BullGear

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    Deals can still be had. I picked up 250 rounds of Winchester Super X 00 Buck for $6.15/5 rounds. I think that's really close to pre-Biden pricing. They threw in free shipping too.
     

    dzander

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    I was in Marietta Ohio store this am. Lots of ammo on the shelves.Prices are high , some guys looking, no one was buying.
    There was a pallet of Browning .22 rimfire , $29.99 for 400 rounds,I believe it was $39.99 about 3-4 weeks ago. pallet of Remington shotgun shell, game loads, $9.99 a box. Thats close to double what they were pre Biden. Winchester 100 round value pack ,12ga ,1-1/8 oz #7-1/2 shot, $33.99. No one was scarfing anything up. Hornady Match 6mm creedmoor, $34.99 a box, there were at least 40 -50 boxes.
     

    Hobo Hilton

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    I was in Marietta Ohio store this am. Lots of ammo on the shelves.Prices are high , some guys looking, no one was buying.
    There was a pallet of Browning .22 rimfire , $29.99 for 400 rounds,I believe it was $39.99 about 3-4 weeks ago. pallet of Remington shotgun shell, game loads, $9.99 a box. Thats close to double what they were pre Biden. Winchester 100 round value pack ,12ga ,1-1/8 oz #7-1/2 shot, $33.99. No one was scarfing anything up. Hornady Match 6mm creedmoor, $34.99 a box, there were at least 40 -50 boxes.
    That is what I call supply "Sprinkling".... No rhyme or reason why one dealer has items and another has empty shelves... Seeing the same thing with certain models of chain saws, weed eaters and replacement parts. A false sense of security if being built.
     

    Greg Langelius *

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    I agree.... Now, roll that logic over to "FOOD" and see where that leaves us
    Precisely where we're going to be once the Chinese arrive to quell the unrest in the cities, invited by whoever is President at the time. Now do you understand why the defensive products market is in the pooper? All it takes is a big jump in the price of Diesel Fuel, and that's already happening.

    Yes, I said "Defensive Products", not "Sporting Goods".
     
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    dzander

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    That is what I call supply "Sprinkling".... No rhyme or reason why one dealer has items and another has empty shelves... Seeing the same thing with certain models of chain saws, weed eaters and replacement parts. A false sense of security if being built.
    I don't know, I was at Scheels in Sioux falls SD last week, shelves were packed with loaded ammo, No primers, no powder. Did have a pretty good supply of Hornady bullets in 22 and 6.5. Just a few Bergers, like 7mm, hade some .22 cal also. Scheels in Rapid city had Vitavori powder only, mostly handgun powders a few rifle but more for .223 cal/6mm ppc. 80% was handgun powder.
     
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    Fred @ Bison Tactical

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    OP - you know there is no price gouging in Communist Russia nor Communist China...

    capitalism​

    noun
    an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

    com·mu·nism | \ ˈkäm-yə-ˌni-zəm , -yü- \
    1a: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

    Definition of law of supply and demand


    : a statement in economics: the competitive price that clears the market for a commodity is determined through the interaction of offers and demands


    I would say that someone could make an argument that charging high prices for life sustaining items during times of emergency could be considered morally and ethically wrong.

    However to charge high prices when supply is severely limited by unprecedented demand on items that are nonessential is just simply the market place at work.


    I have heard a pretty solid argument that the vendors who undercut the market but not selling at market prices are actually lengthening the time the problem exists. The argument goes like this:

    People find they can buy commodity X at one shop for under market value. They buy as much as they can at that price realized the market values the item much higher. They then sell the item in another marketplace for a much higher value because they see a profit windfall. They buy many more times what they would normally buy to earn a profit.

    If the shop above sold at market value, less people would buy, more of those people would buy at lower volume. This would mean more people would have some of the limited items which cost them more than normal, but would help limit the quantity sold, thus allowing the manufacturing to come more in line with the demand.

    As a seperate aside - I rarely see people posting on SHide "These Black Friday deals are undercutting the market - how dare vendors sell for such low prices". Why do people feel like taking advantage of sales and discounts, but complain when prices go the opposite direction for the exact same reasons? Sales occur to move inventory that is out of line with market demand (low demand, high volume means prices drop)...