Primer Differences (.223 load).

[gunsnjeeps]

How much of a difference is there between Winchester and CCI primers?

I have a load listed with Winchester Small Rifle primers. A first time occurance, I can find CCI primers but not Winchester. The load is:
52gn SMK
25gn H335
LC brass
WSR primer

Will the CCI make a big difference?

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

Honestly, I can't get CCI primers in this area.

Since 25 grains of H335 isn't a particularly hot load, I would load 5 and try them. Look all around the primer / primer pocket and check for flat places or other high pressure signs.

Adjust accordingly.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

wolf small rifle mag?

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

The ironic part of this is the shop I called used to have Winchester all the time but never had CCI. They just got a bunch of CCI in for 32.00 a thousand. I have some CCI here at home and have a shipment of Federal coming in soon. The load is a mid range load but I was told it was a very accurate 100 to 200 yard AR load. I was trying to figure out if I should work a load from it with the CCI's or just make enough for the next 100 yard match to see how it works.

 

[Grump]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

Winchesters run higher velocities than CCI in all sizes I've ever compared them. Expect about 30 fps slower, maybe a bit more of a difference, with the CCIs.

One of the guys at Sierra a few months ago told me that Win primers will *show* high pressure faster than most others.

 

[jbaldwin]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

I may be wrong but I think the Win have a softer cup than due the CCIs and or says Rem 7 1/2s. Have heard lot of rumored slam fires with WIN.. Never used them but thought I would throw that at you. Have had no problems with other two.

 

[jthyttin]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

Re: cup thickness, here's one of my bookmarks:

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

About 2003 Federal Primer Division was bought by CCI. That data is no longer reliable. The first thing Blount (the parent company of CCI) did was start changing the primers. That's when I went to Winchester from Federal.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

I should be loading with CCI's this weekend. I didn't think about Federal and CCI now being the same company. The CCI primers I have are from 99 or 2000. I should have my Federal primers by the end of April (long story, 8 months).

 

[bfoosh006]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly, I can't get CCI primers in this area. </div></div>

Odd, thats all I seem to find out here.

 

[bfoosh006]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

From what I've seen...primers can change group sizes by around a third of an inch.

 

[pdogdown]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

In my .223 in dealing with the heavy's (75s) in my 1:9 barrel changing from the 205 match primers to the BR4 CCIs cut the group from 5/8" to .2s average.

I have also seen a difference between the Win Large Rifle, CCI BR2s, and CCI LR Magnum Primers (I know the third is a magnum) in 300 WM and different powders. The WLR is hotter than the BR2s. It is almost halfway between the other two. It works really well in 300WM. BR2s don't really cut it in the H1000, H4350 or IMR 4350 ladders I have done so far. The WLR works better with H1000 and the 150 and 165 bullets but 180s worked better in Hot loads with IMR 4350 especially. I have two buddies that wanted some reduced velocity loads for whitetails and footed the bill so I will post the results when I am done.

In a nutshell, it is dependant on the combo you are working. In the .223 scenario for the heavies with a 1:9 twist I am a lot more confident with the BR4s or even the CCI mil-specs (CCI 41s off the top of my head).

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: Primer Differences (.223 load).

I've realized that I should use a magnum primer with H335. The load is an older load when winchester didn't make magnum primers. I don't know if they have changed the current WSR primer but the older primers were hot enough to not need a magnum. I was discussing Winchester primers being hot on another board and relized that could be why they load was developed with the WSP and not a magnum primer which H335 ussually uses. Fortunately I have CCI Magnum primers also.