Gunsmithing Proof stainless or Bartlein barrel

[nrspence]

Trying to decide on which barrel to use on a 6.5 addiction build. I want a 26” inch rem varmint/ sendero contour. Having trouble deciding between a proof stainless or bartlein in that contour. The proof has 1.20 shank and the bartlein 1.25. What is everyone’s experiences with those two barrels? Thanks

 

[Jigstick]

What action? If you aren't going with a carbon wrapped PR barrel, then I would lean towards a Krieger, Brux, or Bart.

 

[nrspence]

Tikka T3 action. Yeah not carbon wrapped stainless steel. Thanks for your input.

 

[stwcattle]

I run Proof carbon barrels on a couple of my hunting rifles. One a 6 creed and the other a 6.5x284. They both shoot .25 moa
I have a couple hunters in 6 and 6.5 creed with Bartlien barrels as well. These rifles are shooters as well shooting sub .5 with factory Hornady ammunition in the 6.5 from Hornady and Copper Creek in the 6 creedmoor.
My tactical rifles are built with Bartlein med palma barrels and I use factory Hornady 6.5 and 6 creed match ammunition in them and they both shoot .25moa.
Based on my experience, I can't imagine you getting a barrel from either Proof or Bartlein that wont shoot to your satisfaction.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Get whichever you can that fits your timeline and go for it . In my experience, once you have a quality barrel from any of the top names , the gunsmith you choose will have more influence on the outcome than the barrel mfg

 

[nrspence]

Yeah, that was my thought, apples to apples. Thanks for the input.

 

[hunter223]

Why not a hawk hill?

 

[toader]

Krieger 4 groove

 

[nrspence]

Why a hawk hill or Krieger over the bartlein or Proof?

 

[skeetlee]

bartlein, brux, krieger, hawkhill. no particular order. a proof wouldnt even be on my list. At this time anyway. i have chambered a couple and they were not very straight, nor was the bore very consistant with a slug.
Another up and commer in the barrel world is American Barrel Company. the man that runs this shop is a one man show. quality guaranteed. Im getting ready to chamber my first one in the next couple weeks. Lee

 

[hunter223]

Why a hawk hill or Krieger over the bartlein or Proof?

Because they shoot better

 

[diverdon]

Because they shoot better

I'm not clear on which group is the "they" that shoots better. Can you clarify that for me.

 

[MTFalconer]

Bartlein.....l never had a proof carbon. This is a group during barrel break in from my latest build with one and I am not sure how it could get better,

 

[hunter223]

I'm not clear on which group is the "they" that shoots better. Can you clarify that for me.

They as in hawk hill, krieger, specifically 4 groove

 

[TheOE800]

Speaking of Bartlein barrels, do you all find they are typically fast to start with or do they speed up within the first few hundred rounds?

 

[Jigstick]

As has been said before, if you choose a barrel from one of the top manufactures they are all pretty much the same if you ask me. Get whatever one you can get your hands on the quickest. I have barrels from Brux, Krieger, Bartlein, Broughton, Lilja, Obermeyer, Shilen, and Hawk Hill. All chambered by the same gun smith. In all different kinds of rifles....tactical, composite hunting, wood hunting, AR15s....and they have all shot well under 1/2in groups in their respective guns and calibers. When it comes to choosing a particular brand a lot of it is marketing or somebodies personal preference.

Me...I personally prefer a 4 groove Krieger. I think they foul less and clean easier than my other barrels. I have no scientific data to back that up...just brush strokes and patch counts when cleaning.

 

[arm017]

I tend to side with going for your standard SS barrels over a proof CF ( i know you're referring to a ss proof).

I think the general consensus, is any one with a 'brand name' match grade barrels are high quality with little difference between them all. So I found it comforting that it was an option with multiple right answers when building my rifle

 

[CASCADE SHOOTER]

You might wanna look into these if your not going full custom (Criterion Barrels) they make a tikka t3 pre fit barrel they use a barrel nut like a Savage then ya just need a headspace gauge to install. Here's a link for sako/tikka wrench http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/sako-...on-wrench.html here a barrel vise to take your old one off http://www.pmatool.com/barrel-vise-by-viper/

 

[JePhyllis]

Get whichever you can that fits your timeline and go for it . In my experience, once you have a quality barrel from any of the top names , the gunsmith you choose will have more influence on the outcome than the barrel mfg

+1

 

[Supersubes]

They as in hawk hill, krieger, specifically 4 groove

Proof barrels are 4 groove. Setting records right now in high power as well.

 

[hunter223]

Proof barrels are 4 groove. Setting records right now in high power as well.

I’m not saying they can’t shoot but if I’m going to select a blank for all out accuracy and decent weight it’s not going to be a carbon wrapped anything. It’ll be a Hawk hill, krieger, etc I’ve done a proof 3 groove and a bunch of proof 4 grooves and they shoot very well sometimes, decently most times, and like crap a few times. Just too many that were finicky. With that being said I’ve heard excellent things about hells canyon and ordered one to try. We shall see how it shoots.

 

[Jimmy31593]

Buy whatever is in stock and run with it. Almost everyone on here will have a different opinion as to what barrels are best and which are bad. I have only ever had 1 barrel not shoot well, and the manufacturer was awesome to deal with and they replaced it without a problem.

 

[lash]

I’m not saying they can’t shoot but if I’m going to select a blank for all out accuracy and decent weight it’s not going to be a carbon wrapped anything. It’ll be a Hawk hill, krieger, etc I’ve done a proof 3 groove and a bunch of proof 4 grooves and they shoot very well sometimes, decently most times, and like crap a few times. Just too many that were finicky. With that being said I’ve heard excellent things about hells canyon and ordered one to try. We shall see how it shoots.

I don't think that the OP is even talking about carbon wrapped barrels. Proof makes stainless barrels too.

 

[hunter223]

I don't think that the OP is even talking about carbon wrapped barrels. Proof makes stainless barrels too.

Then he’ll likely be just fine. Chambered two of their stainless blanks and they shot very well.

 

[parshal]

I've used Bartlein and Proof (both steel and carbon). They both shoot the same in my experience. Like others have said, get whichever one you can get your hands on.

I've found the Proof steel barrels to have less runout (when run between centers) than the Bartleins but they both shoot equally well.

 

[8208]

Bartlein. Proof doesn't even come close. cut barrel versus button barrel.

 

[Supersubes]

Bartlein. Proof doesn't even come close. cut barrel versus button barrel.

Proof are cut rifled. I prefer cut rifled barrels myself, but nobody here can shoot the difference between cut or button, sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I can't speak for the Carbon Prooof barrels but my last 2 barrels have been SS Proofs and they've shot better than me. Velocity has been what I expect out of every barrel shooting this load, same for barrel life. I would recommend. That said, you absolutely can not go wrong with a Bartlien. Pick whichever you can get quicker.

 

[8208]

Bubble isn't busted. I was misinformed on the manufacture. They still were endurance tested and failed compared to other manufacturers. This was a carbon wrapped barrel in a controlled environment. Started speckling after 300 rounds. You guys go ahead and ride the fanboy train. I will stick with the manufacturers that have built a reputation of excellence. How many championships in any long range discipline have been won with Proof barrels? Go ahead, I will wait.

 

[300sniper]

Bubble isn't busted. I was misinformed on the manufacture. They still were endurance tested and failed compared to other manufacturers. This was a carbon wrapped barrel in a controlled environment. Started speckling after 300 rounds. You guys go ahead and ride the fanboy train. I will stick with the manufacturers that have built a reputation of excellence. How many championships in any long range discipline have been won with Proof barrels? Go ahead, I will wait.

Percentage wise, how many Proof steel barrels have been in long range championship comps vs. others that have been around longer? Is it because they are not good or because not as many have been in use due to the limited timeline they have been available?

 

[8208]

The manufacturer has done a good job of marketing and giving away product to try and get them on the line. You have to give them that. PRS is only one discipline if you want to call it that. There are other "games" both on a National and International level that happen and sorry to say this manufacturer isn't a blip on the radar. There are a lot of tube builders that have popped up for just this market. Bartlein started from people that gained their knowledge from Krieger and in my opinion have improved upon the process. I have rifles with every manufacturer from Schneider, Hart, Krieger, Bartlett, Lilja, Wilson and Douglas to name a few. They are all great barrels and it is hard to find preferences as they all shoot as a high end barrel should. The Bartlein barrels just seem to shoot every ammo really well were some of the others do better with some and not as good with others. Proof got into the market with a gimmick of carbon wrapped barrels. A certain government installation tested their barrels and they fell flat on their face. FACT If you want to spend the money on the name and try to build them a reputation of excellence go ahead. It helps the economy.

 

[300sniper]

The manufacturer has done a good job of marketing and giving away product to try and get them on the line. You have to give them that. PRS is only one discipline if you want to call it that. There are other "games" both on a National and International level that happen and sorry to say this manufacturer isn't a blip on the radar. There are a lot of tube builders that have popped up for just this market. Bartlein started from people that gained their knowledge from Krieger and in my opinion have improved upon the process. I have rifles with every manufacturer from Schneider, Hart, Krieger, Bartlett, Lilja, Wilson and Douglas to name a few. They are all great barrels and it is hard to find preferences as they all shoot as a high end barrel should. The Bartlein barrels just seem to shoot every ammo really well were some of the others do better with some and not as good with others. Proof got into the market with a gimmick of carbon wrapped barrels. A certain government installation tested their barrels and they fell flat on their face. FACT If you want to spend the money on the name and try to build them a reputation of excellence go ahead. It helps the economy.

So is that "Proof steel barrels don't have national championships because they are not as good as other barrels." or "Proof steel barrels don't have national championships because they are not as as many of them competing as other barrels."?

 

[8208]

They were tested in a fixture in a controlled environment and started speckling shots after the 300 rounds. See if you can get some championships with them. You can imagine how the rep felt.... Use what you want to use.

 

[300sniper]

They were tested in a fixture in a controlled environment and started speckling shots after the 300 rounds. See if you can get some championships with them. You can imagine how the rep felt.... Use what you want to use.

Were those steel barrels or carbon wrapped?

 

[lash]

They were tested in a fixture in a controlled environment and started speckling shots after the 300 rounds. See if you can get some championships with them. You can imagine how the rep felt.... Use what you want to use.

I don't want to derail this thread any further, but...

What time period was this test? How recently, in other words.

Any proof of life of this test? (pun untended) There are those of us that prefer real feedback would love to see some actual data to rely upon.

Oh, and again just so to be clear. This whole thread was a question asked about stainless proof barrels and not carbon wrapped barrels.

 

[8208]

I do not want to put the installation on blast as I do not know if they were at privilege to share the results. I spoke to one the guys there. Use what you want to use. I immediately regret even putting my .02 cents into this. I stand by my words on the matter. If you against the grain on something, you expect to be questioned. More manufacturers relieve the pressure on the other manufacturers wait times to customers so get what you want. Someone on here posted that no one on here could tell a difference. If that is true, who cares.... get what is available.

 

[300sniper]

I do not want to put the installation on blast as I do not know if they were at privilege to share the results. I spoke to one the guys there. Use what you want to use. I immediately regret even putting my .02 cents into this. I stand by my words on the matter. If you against the grain on something, you expect to be questioned. More manufacturers relieve the pressure on the other manufacturers wait times to customers so get what you want. Someone on here posted that no one on here could tell a difference. If that is true, who cares.... get what is available.

But you aren't backing up your claim, or even stating if you are comparing apples to apples. Were these tests done with full steel barrels or CF wrapped?

 

[lash]

bates762 , I am not contesting your statements. I am interested in data and information. I'm still interested when this test took place, since I already know it was on a (or more than one?) carbon wrapped barrel per your previous statement. Surely, you can tell me when the test was performed, right? Last week? Last year? Three years ago? It's actually important to know these things.

 

[8208]

Beginning of the year and don't be a dickhead lash.

 

[8208]

And as far as the stainless versus carbon, it is the same steel and tooling used to cut the rifling. The difference is the exterior wrap and contouring.

 

[lash]

Beginning of the year and don't be a dickhead lash.

Look, you cant drop into a thread and throw out vague accusations of barrel failure without expecting people to ask questions. That in itself is a dickhead move. Then you follow it up with, well, it's military and it super secret so I can't really give you any info, but trust me, those barrels suck.

I was truly asking for real information, as I have seen and shot some proof barrels, but there's not a lot of information out there on them due to their relative newness on the market. I asked about timing because I know that early releases of proof and even some other carbon wrapped barrels had issues. The newer ones seem to be getting it right. I think that it is a disservice to us all to throw out accusations and hints without any kind of real information. So who's really the dickhead here?

Also, to assume that a carbon wrapped barrel will perform exactly like its full steel counterpart is a poor assumption. There are too many variables to consider between them.

I am no fanboy, but I do like good information. Provide some or it's just pissing in the wind.

 

[nrspence]

Then he’ll likely be just fine. Chambered two of their stainless blanks and they shot very well.

Yep a stainless. I really appreciate all the opinions.

 

[8208]

If you have to ask, then you are. I don't have any reason to lie and I am not associated with either manufacturer. Keep pounding on the keyboard bro. The only thing anyone has provided on here is speculation and opinion. I gave both and results of a test. I am tired of defending myself on this. Buy whatever its not my money.

 

[lash]

Thanks for all your information. Very helpful.

(See, now that's a dickhead move. Learn the difference.)

 

[Supersubes]

Beginning of the year and don't be a dickhead lash.

You made two sweeping declarations which you didnt support, and were dead wrong about. That’s what got you the response. The cut vs button debate is stupid. Just too many good shooting examples of each to give a “Cut rifled, duh!” (Paraphrased) remark like yours.

If you've spent much time in match shooting circles, of any discipline, it’s extrordinarily monkey see monkey do. As the others have already stated, proof is a new kid and it will take some time. Having said that, proof stainless (not carbon wrapped) barrels have reset a few records and chalked up match wins in high-power very recently.

Im no proof fanboy, as ive never chambered or shot one. Bartlein and krieger are my go-to, but im not opposed to any good quality barrel.

 

[8208]

What records exactly? Because all records in high-power that were broken this year by the AMU were with Krieger. They pretty much shattered them all.

 

[skinnj1]

Bates- for what it is worth, Norm Crawford won the wimbleton cup in 2016 and 2017 with a proof barrel. Anybody that thinks one match grade barrel maker is going to way outperform the others is deluding them selves - everybody has to deal with the relatively small number of 416ss suppliers who supply a product that will vary from heat number to heat number, with fairly similar processes and equipment, making a product with relatively tight tolerances, while trying not to lose the ass...

 

[Supersubes]

Lol

http://www.breachbangclear.com/one-b...roof-research/


Note she’s a team lapua shooter, not a team proof shooter.

 

[hoguer]

I have both, no noticeable difference in accuracy. Slight cost savings with Proof but they don’t ever have any oddball contours in stock

 

[mthomas001]

I have been running the Bartlein 29" 1-7.5 twist and they are quite accurate. I run the MTU contour.