Rifle Scopes Pros/Cons of 3-20 magnification range v. 5-20

[Centuriator]

I'm narrowing my scope decision down now to the SB Ultrashort series and now am weighing pros/cons of the 3-20 or 5-20 magnification range. I'm going to be using it on my HK MR762, so obviously the shorter 5-20 model would seem the more natural choice if length and weight are the major issues, but ... they are not necessarily.

I am thinking the wider FOV with the 3x power instead of 5x would serve me well in seeing and identifying targets, then getting them "zoomed" in rather than starting my search with 5x magnification.

I would appreciate/welcome thoughts and comments on this.

As always, thank you.

 

[Mute]

Depends on your usage. On my scoped rifles, I'm rarely shooting inside of 100 yards and even then, I haven't found it necessary to go below 5-6x to have a wide enough FOV. See if you can get behind the scopes before you buy.

 

[Cartman]

It might pay to look up what the FOV and magnification measuremeants really are while you're at it. I'm not sure about those two, but I've read the 5-25 is really a 7-25 and the one that goes to 27 is not quite a 23 IIRC.

 

[Lowlight]

Unless you use the rifle for work and plan on moving in a threat area, it's unnecessary to go 3x, you'll never use it.

The smaller 5-20x is better option, but for sure both are good scopes, it's a coin toss in a lot of ways.

But thinking the 3x will give you something the 5x won't I would say only fits in the context of having to move with the rifle in an Urban area or dense woods where you need it for snap shots, or at work if you have to watch the front door and the side door at the same time

if you are not working with it, go for the 5-20x

 

[lash]

It might pay to look up what the FOV and magnification measuremeants really are while you're at it. I'm not sure about those two, but I've read the 5-25 is really a 7-25 and the one that goes to 27 is not quite a 23 IIRC.

You also have to be careful where you read stuff that you refer to third hand and make sure that the info is corroborated, which some of that is not. Just sayin'. Frank has spoken to both of the purported issues you mention. It turns out that the one review that says they only got a 23 power out of the 27x had a miss-adjusted ocular.

I have a new 5-25 and I can certainly use the 5x. Contrary to internet legend promulgated by those that don't have or choose not to own one, the sight picture does not just disappear when below 7x. It actually starts showing dancing girls and magical sunsets when below 7x. True story...

 

[Cartman]

You also have to be careful where you read stuff that you refer to third hand and make sure that the info is corroborated, which some of that is not. Just sayin'. Frank has spoken to both of the purported issues you mention. It turns out that the one review that says they only got a 23 power out of the 27x had a miss-adjusted ocular.

I have a new 5-25 and I can certainly use the 5x. Contrary to internet legend promulgated by those that don't have or choose not to own one, the sight picture does not just disappear when below 7x. It actually starts showing dancing girls and magical sunsets when below 7x. True story...

Good to know about the 27. You saying the 5-25 doesn't tunnel? I've never heard the disappear claim. I'm liking the dancing girls though.

I've read any number of places your fov does not change at the low mags on the 5-25. If the new models don't suffer this they are surely some of the best. Given what I've read about the 5-25 I simply suggest a trust but verify approach. I think your assertion you can use the scope at 5x is a straw man. No one makes that claim. I'm glad to know about the 3-27 issue however. On the one hand it explains that guy's issue with the magnification at the long end. On the other hand, wasn't that a brand new scope?

 

[Centuriator]

I had no idea about the "dancing girls and magical sunsets" at certain magnification levels. They need to make sure they cover that in spec sheets!!



Thanks guys for the input, and particularly, as per the usual, Lowlight

 

[Centuriator]

I did a bit more digging and consulting with Jason of EuroOptics and here is now what I'm thinking.

I want the Schmidt & Bender Ultrashort, but there is currently no MOA model available in 5-20, but I can order one and be put on a 3-5 month waiting list. No problem there.

But...the one that is coming out does not apparently have an illuminated reticle...which is something I think I really want given my application will be most shooting at paper and steel targets out to 1,000 yards.

Am I correct that an illuminated reticle will be an etched reticle, and thus sharper even when it is not illuminated? If so, that' what I would prefer and if there is no MOA model available with an illuminated reticle in the 5-20 Ultrashort, obviously, I need to go with the 3-20.

 

[LawnMM]

You could try another vendor too...

I've never gone below about 5-6x even on scopes that go down to 3x. IMO a 5-25/6-24x mag range is about perfect

 

[lash]

Good to know about the 27. You saying the 5-25 doesn't tunnel? I've never heard the disappear claim. I'm liking the dancing girls though.

I've read any number of places your fov does not change at the low mags on the 5-25. If the new models don't suffer this they are surely some of the best. Given what I've read about the 5-25 I simply suggest a trust but verify approach. I think your assertion you can use the scope at 5x is a straw man. No one makes that claim. I'm glad to know about the 3-27 issue however. On the one hand it explains that guy's issue with the magnification at the long end. On the other hand, wasn't that a brand new scope?

I'll try to take a pic next time I have it out. I've never taken a through-the-scope pic with my phone, but will give it the ol' workingman's try.

Edit: Oh, and in response to your straw man comment. There's no doubt that I exaggerated a bit to make the point, but that was simply following your lead in response to when you said that the 5-25 is really a 7-25. Same approach. There's a difference between tunneling and not being able to use the range specified. I've made a number of successful hits at distance in crazy positions wherein I couldn't obtain a proper cheek weld under time constraints and saw my target through a tunnel. Not optimal, but possible, doable and repeatable. (Not an S&B and not due to any scope issue)

 

[Centuriator]

You could try another vendor too...

Do you have some recommendations? I'm seeing some fairly shady operations out there when I punch in that model number, a place in New Jersey actually operates two websites with different names and the customer reviews on them are horrible. I'd not like to deal with any vendor that would offer less expertise and service than Europtics.

 

[Mute]

I'd also trust Mile High and Sport Optic for S&B scopes, but I don't think they have any 5-20 Ultra Short with MOA reticle in stock either.

 

[Centuriator]

I'd also trust Mile High and Sport Optic for S&B scopes, but I don't think they have any 5-20 Ultra Short with MOA reticle in stock either.

No, nobody has them in stock because they do not even exist yet as anything more than SB model numbers and specs. As I said earlier, Jason said to expect a 3-5 month wait if I got in line for one today.

 

[Centuriator]

OK....so, I went with Jason and EuroOptics because: responsive service, went extra mile to answer my questions and research the precisely right Ultrashort I want. Checked other vendors: no responses. Oh, well.

I'm getting the SB 5-20x PM II Ultrashort with double turn turret, 1/4 MOA PFL reticle, in black, and with the illuminated reticle. I'll settle back in for a nice long wait, but it will arrive well before my .308 suppressor does!

Thanks for the helpful responses from everyone

 

[Nemain]

You made the right choice and Jason kicks ass so good move there as well. Sucks that you have to wait but I think you will be happy with your purchase, the 5-20 US is awesome.

 

[lash]

I'm just a little jealous, as I do see a 5-20 ultrashort in my future, but it is a still distant future.

Good choice!

Mine will likely be a Mil/Mil, but that just a matter of choice and application.

Ya did good!

now settle back and focus on shooting what you have and before you know it, it'll be like Christmas and you'll have your next setup.

 

[Centuriator]

Just plunked down my deposit on the scope...the waiting commences!!

And Jason told me I'm the very first one to officially order a 5-20 Ultrashort MOA scope. So, good for me.

Again, my priority was to have:

The SB 5-20 PM II Ultrashort on my HK MR762
Black
MOA reticle
Double turn turret
Illuminated reticle

Here are the specs:

1 673-911-992-F3-F1
5-20x50 PM II Ultra Short (34mm Tube; FFP; 84 MOA; Elev:: DT/
MTC/LT; Wind: ST/ZS/Capped) Black .25 MOA, P4FL-MOA FFP
673-911-992-F3-F1

The price is $3,650, which is a bit more than I paid for the HKMR762 SD package from Quiet Riot Firearms. I learned in photography that you should always pay more for your glass (lens) than your camera. Comparable analogy?

EuroOptics required a 20% downpayment, which is effectively going to allow me to purchase the scope on "layaway" until it comes in at some point in the next 3-5 months.

It's all good.

 

[Just Macca]

Due to you running a semi-automatic, I would also consider running a mini RDS for close range if you're concerned about 100m and in.

 

[Centuriator]

Yup, that's why God invented SPURH mounts.

 

[BarrettBoy]

If memory serves, the short 5-20 costs about $1000 more.
If I were in your situation I'd choose the 3-20.
If close range shooting is a serious point of contention for you, I'd recommend just using the extra cash savings for an offset rmr or something similar to that.

Either way, both scopes are good choices.

 

[Centuriator]

If memory serves, the short 5-20 costs about $1000 more.

I just checked on this and the SB PMII Ultrashorts are priced about the same, regardless of 3-20 or 5-20.

 

[longshot2000]

I spoke with S&B rep today, and the said the 5x20 was designed for the gassed market (AR-15, 308AR), and was made very short. But, it is so short that very few single unit mounts will fit. The 3-20 is their new flagship, and also the scope chosen for the US Army's (HK) CSASS.

 

[Grease]

Good info, searching the forum for as much info I can find on the US 3-20.