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PWS MK114

Re: PWS MK114

Luke, nice running into you here! Yes, it was great to meet you the other day. I'm glad you were able to shoot the MK-110 and the MK-114 out there. They really must be handled, to get the full experience.

The Triad is more of a Flash Hider that does a bit of muzzle compensation / brake... but the FSC556 that I have on the MK-114 is a true brake.

You saw how flat it shoots on full auto, and it was nice to run it directly next to a Battle Comp Brake that was on the LWRC 10.5" SBR.

I will be back over there very soon... and will have a few more goodies for you.

Cheers!

Darren
 
Re: PWS MK114

Awesome, can't wait to see you there!

After I heard you mention your write up here on the Mk114, I had to check it out for myself. Great read start to finish, well so far. I can't wait to see how far you can push that thing. Not that I want it to fail, but I want to see how rough it likes it!

By the way, thanks for your service!
 
Re: PWS MK114

What Dmack said about PWS is true, superior rifle..I had once order a mk114 7.62x39 since Jan this year until I'm fed up of waiting for 3 months I rather choose the AR pistol mk107 7.62x39 since my dealer have in stock. All i can say about this pistol is WOW!! believe it or not I shot 500yards 3 out 5 steel body shot. My pistol zeroed at 100 yards using Trijicon tr24 with geissel ssa-e and enidine hydraulic buffer weight... I was trying to impress one of my friend that i can hit 2 shots @200 yards steel head shot within 2 secs lol!! and I did it.. I really love this PWS AR pistol...
 
Re: PWS MK114

DMack,

Thanks for the followup, I was affraid of that
frown.gif


Any idea what kind of FPS he is getting with 168GR FGMM out of a MK214?

I am going to send you a PM in a moment.
 
Re: PWS MK114

ALLCON:


After running this MK114 VERY HARD since December... I have come up with the following list of things that I don't like about it.

This is not inflated "internet" numbers. I literally have close to 9k rounds through this gun since I took possession of it in December 2010. So far, the ONLY malfunction I have had, was the extractor claw breaking. I replaced it, as noted in the thread, and not a seconds trouble since.

The accuracy has not degraded at all, from what I can tell. Now, I have not locked the rifle down in a rifle rest and done a pure mechanical shot group, but off of a sandbag rest, with an ACOG... the thing groups very well for a battle rifle.

I can see zero visual wear in the chamber / throat area with my borescope.

Here's the dislike:

The QD mounts on the buffer tube. I love the enhanced buffer tube, and the fact that the castle nut has been done away with. I also love how robust the buffer tube is. However, I am not a 3 gun guy, or a gamer... I run this carbine with SWAT. I use it in our classes weekly, and we shoot from all sorts of positions, strong and weak side... I rappel with this rifle. I ride in helicopters with it, I jump in and out of vehicles... patrol cars, jump out vans, Bearcats, you name it. I find that the QD sling mount is not for me. I don't like how it limits me on transitions.

There you have it. That's my dislike about the rifle.

Now, I spent about 45 minutes yesterday talking with them at PWS on the phone about this exact issue.

They are coming up with a solution to this problem. Is it really a problem? Well, for me, and the way I run the gun... it is a mild annoyance. I know I keep promising some pictures and video... and I will get them up. Once I get a moment free...

So, other things I don't like?

Well, I have huge hands, so the MOE handgrip is a bit thinner than the MIAD that I have grown to love. Still, IMHO, the MOE is miles better than a standard A2 handgrip that comes with most rifles.

The MOE stock is "meh". I prefer the ACS over the MOE. Again, that's my personal preference.

The last thing is... the trigger. This rifle is shipped with a MILSPEC single stage trigger that is less than buttery smooth. You all know, MILSPEC triggers are just that. Some are better than others. I happen to be spoiled by shooting Geissele triggers. So, what did I do? I installed an SSA in this gun and was done with it.

In the end, I think over time, the only thing that stands out to me, as being "bad" on this rifle... is only personal preference.

I stated at the start of this thread, that I would be completely objective, and give the bad with the good.

I'm no stranger to AR's but by no means, am I a qualified expert. However, I can speak intelligently about steel, hardening, coatings, tolerances, accuracy and the likes.

I have not been easy with this MK114 to say the least. I have not abused it though. I finally cleaned the gas piston after about 8500 rounds... nothing that a bit of scotchbrite couldn't handle. The Piston Operating System in this rifle is very sound. It works. It's not a gimmick... and frankly, I would trust my life to this rifle.

It has not let me down... so, that is testament to it's quality I think.

I will slow down on this thread now... since I really don't have much more input other than what I have already stated. I will update if I have something happen that is note worthy.

I appreciate Sniper's Hide for allowing me to run this thread in here. This MK114 is not a "precision" rifle... it's not designed to be. But, I find that with the right trigger, ammo, and optic on it, it is more than adequate to fill that niche.

I will definitely do a thread on my MK2 series rifle when I get it.

I am going to be using this rifle as a Law Enforcement "sniper" system. I have some theories that I want to test with this platform. I will be getting the MK214 instead of the MK212, simply to not have to deal with the tax stamp, and so I can travel with the rifle without the hassle of the SBR thing.

Stay tuned... and again, thanks millions to the Hide for allowing this thread to run.

v/r

DMack
 
Re: PWS MK114

I've been running a MK214 for a month or so and I like it. Lighweight, feels nimble. I went with the FSC brake, I run them on my 5.56 guns as well. Really works great setup like that. Glad to see that are taking off..
 
Re: PWS MK114

Here's my plan with the MK214.

It has the Geissele SD-E trigger in it. A VLTOR EMOD stock, MIAD hand grip, 14.5" barrel with pinned PWS PRC (Precision Rifle Compensator). For glass, I am mounting a US Optics SN3 1.8-10 power with MILDOT reticle and .1 MIL turrets. It's got the EREK elevation, left side windage, fast focus, and TPAL.

I haven't made my mind up on BIPODS... most likely some GG&G or Atlas.

The reason I went with the 14.5" instead of the 12.5" is roughly 100 FPS. Since I will use this rifle to shoot through barriers (glass and other items) I need the velocity. I also didn't want to worry about a Tax Stamp, since I will be traveling with this rifle across state lines sometimes. Just makes it easier. The 16 inch would have been fine, but the rails are the same length on all the rifles, so it limits how far out I can mount the bipods. The more barrel sticking out past the bipods, gives it more of a fulcrum effect. Plus, running a short rifle is much easier.

I will never use this rifle out beyond 500 yards, and ALL I really care about is a cold bore T Zone shot out to 200. If I can pull that off with this rifle... which I believe I can... this may change the way I look at things a bit.

Some of the competitions we have, require single rounds to be loaded. Now, here's my train of thought. On a bolt gun, you start with the bolt to the rear. Your right hand takes the round, and loads it into open port, then you take that right hand and push the bolt forward and lock it down. Then, you have to move your right hand down to firing position, get on the trigger, align your optic and make the shot. On an AR platform, with a BAD lever, I insert an empty mag, which locks the bolt to the rear. Right hand inserts round, right hand then immediately goes onto the pistol grip into firing position... trigger finger drops the bolt with the BAD lever, and immediately on the trigger.

This is faster than the bolt gun... by a big margin.

Anyway... these are theories I am going to be testing. As a Police "Sniper"... it's nice to know I have a 13 pound gun that can make a 1000 yard shot, but... if I had to make a shot out to 1000 yards on a call out, I'd be shooting into the next city.

The "non-free-floating" rails that are an issue to some people... I don't think will be an issue with me. I understand the physics behind this.

The gas block is the size it is, for a reason. The way the PWS piston system works is ingenious. There are no springs, or moving parts to fail. The piston is directly attached to the BCG, and rides the gas pulse to the rear, ala AK / SKS style operating rods. The rails are designed the way they are, because of the gas tube. It's bigger than a DI gun... due to the way the piston is built. Sure, they could design a tube that is free floating... but, it would interrupt the sight plane. It would be taller than the rails on the regular M4 flat top receiver. As it is, you can use any standard AR accessory with the PWS MK series rifles. I understand the "why" behind the engineering... and must say, it's brilliant.

Their barrels are accurate... and with the right trigger / glass / ammo... I believe they are MORE than accurate enough to fill a DMR / SPR role.

The 14.5" barrel is still short enough with the EMOD / ACS / UBR / et al to maneuver in and out of vehicles easily. It won't weigh 13-15 pounds... so I can run with it easier than I can my bolt gun... I can rappel with it... and I don't need to torque into the bipods as much, so I am not worried about the barrel torque issue.

Once I get the rifle, and get it set up... I will chrono several different factory loads and post them into the thread. I will do several legitimate accuracy tests... from a rest, from a bipod, from a kneeling position, etc... and report these results.

All in all, I have very high hopes for it. It will be interesting to run it beside the REPR and see how it performs.

It is in essence a short barrel SPR, that will fill a niche in Law Enforcement Snipercraft. So I believe.

I know the rifle was never designed to be used this way... but, if it runs ANYTHING like my MK114 or MK110, then I know it has huge potential.
 
Re: PWS MK114

Great Review of the MK-114 DMack! I am excited to get one of these amazing Carbines very soon. I have a PWS Muzzle break (THAT I LOVE) and I plan on buying several products from PWS as they seem to be one of the very few companies offering true inovation for the modern Warrior. I hope to have my Carbine soon. Please keep us posted on the long term performance of this innovative platform.
 
Re: PWS MK114

Well I received my MK116 upper on Monday and I am truly excited to go ring it out! I am very impressed with the build quality and fit and finish.I have owned a dozen or so AR platform rifles and this one seems to be built just a little better.
I also like the slim profile of the rail system and when i mounted it on my Spikes lower with a Magpul UBR stock the gun had a grat balance and feel to it. I prefer the slim feel of the PWS as compared to my TROY battle rail on my Spikes.
I am going to order a complete lower form PWS and add a Geissele trigger as soon as my bank account allows.
Can I say again how nice the fit and finish are on this weapon. Thanks DMack!
 
Re: PWS MK114

I have the PWS Enhnaced buffer tube on my LMT piston and I didn't like the QD swivels on the side. POF makes a similar enhanced buffer tube that you can use a standard castle nut and I personally use the Noveske End plate with it, but you can use the Magpul one if you want. That should take care of the one negative thing about the PWS.
 
Re: PWS MK114

Hey guys I'm new to the forum and came across this thread. I've got a PWS DC-16 upper (basically the MK116 with a 1/7 twist instead of 1/8. The upper is flawless and has over 3K rounds through it. Only problem I had was when the piston actually detached itself from the charging handle.

I called PWS and spoke to Stacy who told me that they had a problem with a small batch of uppers where the piston pin would actually work itself out and detach from the charging handle. They said send it in and we'll repair and replace <span style="font-weight: bold">anything </span>damaged. Within 2 weeks I had my upper back and a free pmag for the trouble. PWS' customer service is second to none. I would not hesitate to order any of their products in the future.

My upper has also eaten anything I've thrown at it from 55-75 grain bullets and bronze and steel cased ammo. I've never had a FTF or FTE, except when my piston rod detached.

 
Re: PWS MK114

DMack,

I know you've stated that you disliked the QD mounts on the MK114, however i was wondering what sling configuration you did prefer while you were testing the rifle?
 
Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my plan with the MK214.</div></div>

I've been following this thread with great interest and am especially interested in the 7.62/.308 rifles. Anything on the MK214 rifle DMack?..
 
Re: PWS MK114

I will be down in West Palm Beach County teaching a class next week. My MK114 and my MK110 will be with me, and I will let the guys run both of them and collect feedback. The MK114 continues to impress me. I can't say enough about how good it runs... the MK110 is also just as impressive, only in a wee bit smaller package.

MK114.jpg
 
Re: PWS MK114

ALLCON:

I have started another thread here:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2657601&page=1

This is in reference to the MK214.

I will keep this thread open for future questions on the MK114 or MK110... but, direct MK2 questions to the MK2 thread.

I apologize for this write up being a bit disorganized... I will keep the MK2 thread on track.

Be safe out there everyone...

Cheers!

DMack
 
Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whiskeytango25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DMack,

I know you've stated that you disliked the QD mounts on the MK114, however i was wondering what sling configuration you did prefer while you were testing the rifle? </div></div>

Brother... I am STILL on the lookout for the perfect sling. I run a Diamondback Tactical Fast Attack Plate Carrier when I train... and I tend to run a Tactical Tether style sling. I have worked with so many, and have not found a single one that I just LOVE.

On the QD issue... Todd sent me a few that I believe are Mr. Vicker's design from Blue Force. They are highly recessed, and I have yet to have one pop off since I switched to them.

I will be in Palm Beach next week. I will post some pictures of my gear, so you can get an idea of what is working for me.

I run my MK110 as a "sim" gun, and use it in our MOUT during Active Shooter, or HRT / Search Warrant Scenarios... and I find that I am constantly transitioning from strong side to weak side, and the QD has yet to come loose. So, I found a fix... I think.

Thanks for your interest... I am a gear guy, a hard use guy, and my job allows me to work in it daily... so, If I can break it, I usually will. Without body armor, I like using a hybrid of the MAGPUL MS3 and a Vickers sling, that I took the webbing and attached it to the MAGPUL hardware. Maybe I need to just design a sling??? Nah, I will leave it to the guys that do that sort of thing.

The Vicker's QD works well on this buffer tube. However, I submitted some ideas to PWS, and Todd himself has a few in R/D now...

Cheers!

Be safe out there Brother.

DMack
 
Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However, I submitted some ideas to PWS, and Todd himself has a few in R/D now... </div></div>

Would any of these by chance be the one I discussed with you over PM?

I am desperately wanting to get my Magpul MS2 on my new MK114.

Sorry I never got back to you, life has been crazy lately.

Here is a crappy cell phone pic of my new MK114!

So far I am loving it (sling issue withstanding).

imag0002hl.jpg


imag00212.jpg
 
Re: PWS MK114

I'm down in Palm Beach County teaching Active Shooter Response this week. I ran my MK110 in the shoot house on Tuesday, with total reliability. It gobbles up UTM like candy...

Today, was live fire phase. I passed my MK110 and MK114 around to the Officers, and they all were amazed at how they ran. The MK110 got about 500 rounds of love through it, but the MK114 was ran hard. Zero issues at all with either of them.

The Officers that shot them today, commented on how soft and flat they shoot. The Geissele SSA triggers were amazing to them, as many of them had never shot with a two stage trigger, let alone the SSA.

We ran the full circle of drills, up drills, mag changes (Tac and Emergency), Weapon Transitions... etc... it was a full nine hours on the range.

The Vickers QD mounts do not eject the rifle during transitions, so that solved that problem.

Here's my MK114 being ran like a Kentucky Racehorse...

PWS1.jpg


Here is a few of my MK110 getting some love...

PWS2.jpg


PWS3.jpg


PWS4.jpg


The hardest part was getting the rifles back after the day was over...

Great carbines. Totally reliable.
 
Re: PWS MK114

I know training to you probably seems like work, but to me, nine hours on a range would be a heckuva way to spend the day!!
Seems like everybody like the carbines, and I can see why. Any chance we could get some more pics and details of the Vickers QD sling you're talking about?
I run the Magpul MS2 system, and I do like it, but it does seem to be lacking something. Any tips or suggestions??
 
Re: PWS MK114

During our Active Shooter Class down in Palm Beach, I ran UTM through the MK110 with zero issues. The Bolt Carrier Group / Piston system is replaced by the UTM bolt, and you have to use the blue UTM magazines for reliable feeding. I find that the UTM runs better than Simunition both in the AR, as well as the Glock.

Here is some of my kit, prepared for battle...

DMack2.jpg


During the "Beslan" scenario... we put the Officers in the worst case possible. Running into highly trained, aggressive and determined adversaries, wearing full body armor / plates, and carrying a full load out. Realistic training called for them to run failure drills, when responding with their Glock 22 sidearm. Hence the paint on my helmet. Trust me, it got very colorful as the day progressed.

DMack1.jpg


I need to Chrono the UTM 5.56 rounds coming out of the MK110, because I believe them to be fairly hot. One of the UTM rounds launched from my MK110 struck the first window in this Bushnell Holo Sight, and had horrible results. Even with the window busted, the reticle still worked though.

DMack3.jpg
 
Re: PWS MK114

Dude I look forward to hooking up. We can play with each others toys, and I say this with a staunch record of heterosexuality
grin.gif
. (not that there's anyting wroing with that) I'll call you this week.
 
Re: PWS MK114

Update:

I had these two rifles (MK114 and the MK110) out on our City Range the other day. There were several Officers from neighbor Departments, as well as one of our own female Officers there.

I gave up both rifles while I did some chrono work on the MK214. They ran them on full auto, semi, controlled pairs, failure drills, and shooting in all sorts of unorthodox positions.

The hardest thing was getting them back!!!

I paid attention to them shooting, because no one was wearing gloves. Once several hundred rounds were fired, everyone complained of the heat generated by the gas block, into the rails. This can be an issue with bare hands... since the rails are connected to the gas block... and the gas block is very stout.

I run ladder rail covers, since I always run these rifles with gloves.

So, just be advised... when you run a PWS carbine, it will get hot. Either use rail covers, or gloves...

I like these... they look promising.

http://www.mantarails.com
 
Re: PWS MK114

Well i finally got to ring out my PWS MK116 against my Spikes mid length DI 16" Carbine and by buddies Ruger SR556. All of these guns are top shelf but the PWS was just more enjoyable to shoot.
The recoil pulse was much different than the both the DI and Short Stroke Ruger.
The energy seemed to be directed directly into the shoulder with practically zero muzzle rise and almost no felt recoil. From what DMack has said he believes it is the PWS muzzle break that kills this rise.I have the same exact break on my 16" DI gun and it was noticeably better with the PWS.
The Ruger SR556 Short Stroke was also fun to shoot but the pulse was not as smooth as the PWS and there was a mechanical sound kinda like a ping when fired. This was only noticed because I was truly comparing the feel of how each carbine shot.
Also of note, all three weapons had 16" barrels but the PWS was noticeably lighter than both the Spikes DI build or the Ruger. both had Troy rail systems up front. My Spikes has a BCM 16" Mid Length 1/7 barrel and Troy MRF 13" battle rail so it's not a super light carbine. Even with the extra weight up front, the PWS was much smoother to shoot.
I am not a big forum guy, but i am an experienced shooter and i can tell you that this PWS platform seems to be the "Golden Grail" of AR platform weapons from what I have actually shot.

This is my truly Humble opinion.

Also, if you get to deal with Todd Tuttle and the crew at PWS, you will know what knowledgeable customer service means.

Dealing with them is like buying a Gun from a buddy.

Well done PWS.....
 
Re: PWS MK114

Don,

I'm glad you finally got to shoot your MK116. Thank you for your input... As stated, the PWS rifle does shoot softer / flatter than any other carbine I have fired. I do believe the FSC-556 has something to do with it, but I believe it is in conjunction to the way the PWS Long Stroke Piston System operates. The Operating Rod is directly connected to the Bolt Carrier Group, this allows the BCG to ride to the rear of the recoil pulse, on a steady gas pulse rather than the BCG being "tapped" or "slammed" by an operating rod, and riding kinetic energy to the rear of the recoil pulse. Also, the way the Op Rod is on the Long Stroke PWS system, There is absolutely ZERO carrier tilt.

Not to mention, they are very, very accurate.

Again... thank you for your input. Did you notice any heat on the rifle? Were you wearing gloves? Bare hands? What rail covers are you using?

Heat generated in the PWS system is the only negative comment I have heard when I loan my rifles out. But, this has only come from people shooting it bare handed... since I do not use rail covers. I use the ladder rail type...

Just curious.

Happy shooting!!!

DMack
 
Re: PWS MK114

DMack,

I also have noticed the heat issue while shooting barehanded, i put on some magpul xtm rail covers which seemed to work fine until firing several hundred rounds knocked all but a few of them off. Im gonna do some looking around for some more reliable rail covers, until then im gloved up also.

Has anyone had similar issues with the xtm rails panels? I spoke with magpul and they seem to think i got a bad batch of them.
 
Re: PWS MK114

Just FYI... MSG Paul Howe (Ret.) has endorsed the PWS MK216 with his CSAT logo and specs. He has received his first rifles out in Texas... and I hear they run exceptionally well. There were some additions to the rifle, that don't come stock, but basically... it's a spec'd out MK116 and comes with a TACLIGHT and an Eberlestock X3 Low Drag bag...

Here's the link to the page:

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=289&idcategory=15#details

I am definitely not trying to sell these rifles. I just think it's a great thing that the PWS system has caught the attention of a professional such as Mr. Howe. I'm anxious to see him running these in his classes. I'm confident he will have the same success with the PWS rifles as I have had.

PWS_MK116_556_CSAT_L_3.jpg


Here are the changes to the base MK116:

Additions to the PWS MK116 base rifle include:
BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle, Mod 5 Latch
Magpul CTR Stock, Black
Magpul MIAD Grip, Black
Magpul PMAG, Black, 30 round, x2
Magpul PMAG, Black, 20 round, x1
LaRue Tactical QD LT-103 Rear Sight w/CSAT Aperature
Daniel Defense Rail-Mount Fixed Front Sight
Viking Tactics Sling, VTAC-MK1 w/VTAC HQD Sling Swivels
Surefire X300 Flashlight
Eberlestock Pack (X3 LoDrag), Dry Earth



It comes with the CSAT iron sights... I have a pair of these enroute to me, to test on my MK110. I will let you all know how I like them.

I also like that it is shipping with the CTR stock, MIAD grip, instead of the MOE stuff. The X3 Low Drag Eberlestock bag is just icing on the cake. Three PMAGS, Light, QD swivels... (the VTAC's are the ones that do NOT self eject)... and the VTAC sling... makes it a well rounded, do anything package. Nothing more to buy!!!

Way to go PWS... setting the bar just a bit higher!
 
Re: PWS MK114

I noticed today that my PWS did get damn hot as i am just using latter rail covers.I might try something else, I don't want to always shoot with gloves on here in Florida. Not sure what I will buy yet but i will take any advise from you guys.

Shot with my bud's again today and we had about 7 AR's between us, the PWS was passed around the most. that why it was so hot!

Everyone's curious about the Long Stroke Gas System. I have about 350 rounds through her and zero issues. I am really digging this gun.
 
Re: PWS MK114

The handguards that ship with the rifle work fine. I wear gloves. Even in Florida...

I use ladder type rail covers because I like how thin the rails are. Oh... And I wear gloves. ;-)
 
Re: PWS MK114

I say bring a BIG sponge to train with FSGT he is top notch, you will have much information to soak up. I have yet to meet a guy with as much passion for shooting. I find myself time and time again astounded by his technical knowledge. Your welcome for the use of my POF, I can think of no one I trust more with my weapons. I look forward to reading the posts and will see if I can show up this week at the range.
 
Re: PWS MK114

AWESOME NEWS!!!

I finally get to be a "student" in a CQB shooting class, instead of teaching all the time. I will be running my MK114 in a CQB class in Jacksonville on Monday.

Stay tuned... pics and video to follow.
 
Re: PWS MK114

As always, looking forward to your comments DMack. Also hope to read the questions raised by Benito and to see responses. I'm really loving my MK14!

Thanks for putting the reviews together on the 5.56 and .308 PWS offerings.
 
Re: PWS MK114

Well, I attended a class hosted by RUAG yesterday... turned out to be very very informative. A guy by the name of Bank Miller taught the class. Learned a ton!

Here is a video I shot when I first got the PWS MK114. I mounted the Upper on a Department Issued Colt Select Fire Lower... and yes, I am wearing my range cap here... slightly "out" of uniform...

I am running Winchester Frangible Ammo in here, doing some full auto bursts... to show how flat this rifle shoots. The recoil pulse in addition to the FSC556 just has to be felt to be appreciated. My MK114 was fired a bit yesterday, which puts this rifle at about 11,500 rounds (give or take) since December.

It just runs and runs and runs....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAZIfbfdyS0

I am able to keep this rifle on target, with the reticle in the hit zone, even doing a mag dump. IT's that soft!!!
 
Re: PWS MK114

I have this rifle loaned out to a local Police Department now, for some serious testing by them... my only criteria is that they log how many rounds they put through it, and chronicle malfunctions if they experience any at all.

It is my intent to have this very MK114 at S.H.O.T. this year at the PWS booth... with a legitimate round count, and performance appraisal. So, if you are at S.H.O.T. in January, stop by and say howdy!
 
Re: PWS MK114

DMack, thank you for your great coverage. In researching my next rifle, I've been checking out many of the piston options from the ACR, FN, HK, etc Many folks have said that peening seems to be an issue with piston guns, where the bolt lugs contact the barrel lugs as they slide in and slowly do damage to the barrel lugs. Well they say its an issue with ACR and AR-based piston guns, so I'm wondering how the PWS MK1 and MK2 series hold up? Are there any peening marks on either platform? Thanks!
 
Re: PWS MK114

Dmack, great write up. I just picked up an MK114 & already have an MK214. I did notice a lot of movement between the upper & lower receivers. It's noticeable to the point that whenever I pickup the rifle I can fell the movement between the upper and lower. I was just wandering if this is something that you have experienced? I have 2 ARs that were built with different manufacture components and have Zero movement between upper and lower. As you know the MK214 is built like a tank and zero movement between upper and lower. I realize one is billet and one forged which may account for level of fitment.

Is there anything that can be done to get rid of this movement?

I also wanted to say that I'm not in anyway trying to say anything negative against PWS. I have faith in their products and that's why I've purchased 2 of their rifles. However, this movement between the upper and lower is very disconcerting.
 
Re: PWS MK114

@ WBill... in reference to your "peening" question... I think I understand what you are asking. I have found almost ZERO wear on the MK114 Bolt / Bolt Carrier Group and it has a legitimate 12,000 rounds throug it to date. I have looked down into the chamber with a bore scope, and to my untrained eyes, I can see no sign of throat erosion what so ever.

The Isonite Treatment that PWS does on these rifles is tough as diamonds and really does a great job at protecting the metal. There is some wear on the BCG along the bearing surfaces, but it is very minimal.

In fact, I will take out the BCG tomorrow and get some close up pictures to illustrate what I am speaking of.

As for any wear on the bolt lugs, I see zero. There is zero wear inside the buffer tube as well, so carrier tilt is a non issue. I really believe it is due to the long stroke piston, and the fact that the piston is floating on the end of the operating rod.

The system works very well.

Cheers!!!
 
Re: PWS MK114

@ Dr. Dre...

I'm glad you are enjoying these two very fine rifles... I know I really enjoy mine. As for your question of fitment with the upper and lower receivers, the MK2 series rifles are bult on matched sets of SI Defense BILLET receivers. Billet receivers tend to be very tight, especially those that are machined togethter. My MK214 has ZERO movement when pinned together, and in fact, they are a bit stubborn to break down on the front pivot pin due to fit being so close in tollerance.

The MK1 series rifles use FORGED upper and lower recievers that are not machined as matched sets. My MK114 upper / lower combination does "wiggle" a little bit, as does my Smith and Wesson, my Colt, and my Noveske. I have a 20" White Oak upper that I have on a Lauer Custom Weaponry lower, and it has a slight wobble as well. Nothing terrible, only a few thousandths of an inch... but, it is not locked up tight like my MK2 series rifle.

This has never caused an accuracy issue. The rifle does not rattle if I hold it by the pistol grip and shake it. If your rifle is loose like that, then you have a tollerance issue. Do you have access to other AR's? If so, see if your PWS MK114 is any looser than the other AR's. It shouldn't be.

If there is a legitimate tollerance issue, I would definitely call PWS and let them know about it. They are VERY good with Quality Control, but they are only human. It is possible that an upper was sent out that the pin holes were reamed just a bit over sized...

I have all faith that PWS will make it right with you, if you have issues with your rifle. However, just know, that "most" forged AR's go together with a wee bit of movement when pinned together.

I will see if I can shoot a small little video segment to show you how much wobble I have on the MK114 after so many rounds through it. It is there, but very minute.

Hope this clears it up for ya Brother... be safe out there.

Cheers!
 
Re: PWS MK114

I don't think I explained it well in my OP, but just for my peace of mind that I was clear...the peening is supposed to happen when the bolt lugs contact the barrel lugs as the bolt slides forward into the barrel lugs, thus causing wear on both bolt and barrel lugs (though not on the parts of the lugs that take the most stress during firing). The acr, and many piston ar's supposedly show this wear. The FN's supposedly don't because they have thinner barrel lugs that are rounded so there is no bolt lug to barrel lug contact as its going into battery. One ACR report came back that the cam slot was a bit too large, so the bolt lugs weren't aligning quite right and struck the barrel lugs.

So based on your answer you see no signs of that sort of contact with the PWS MK1 or 2...that's really impressive and their system doesn't seem to be getting the recognition it deserves. I was really excited about the PWS but then saw so many complaints about general piston systems showing this wear that I was looking more closely at the Robinson XCR, but it sounds like PWS is just fine! Is this peening a real problem?? Well there are many opinions that it is and that it isn't...but if I'm going to spend that much on a rifle, I guess I want as few issues from the get-go as possible! And thanks to DMack I know that its not an issue with PWS rifles!!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@ WBill... in reference to your "peening" question... I think I understand what you are asking. I have found almost ZERO wear on the MK114 Bolt / Bolt Carrier Group and it has a legitimate 12,000 rounds throug it to date. I have looked down into the chamber with a bore scope, and to my untrained eyes, I can see no sign of throat erosion what so ever.

The Isonite Treatment that PWS does on these rifles is tough as diamonds and really does a great job at protecting the metal. There is some wear on the BCG along the bearing surfaces, but it is very minimal.

In fact, I will take out the BCG tomorrow and get some close up pictures to illustrate what I am speaking of.

As for any wear on the bolt lugs, I see zero. There is zero wear inside the buffer tube as well, so carrier tilt is a non issue. I really believe it is due to the long stroke piston, and the fact that the piston is floating on the end of the operating rod.

The system works very well.

Cheers!!! </div></div>
 
Re: PWS MK114

Ok, in reference to WBill's question about "peening"... I decided to try some macro shots with the PWS MK114 Bolt, as compared to my S&W MP-15 Bolt. Both are used heavily, with my S&W having right at 22k rounds through it, my PWS MK114 has right at 12K through it. Both bolts are MP tested, and stamped. The S&W bolt is DI, the PWS is for the Piston design.

Here are a few close up shots of the PWS bolt, showing the bolt lugs.

PWSBolt1.jpg


PWSBolt2.jpg


PWSBolt3.jpg


Again, this bolt has right at 12k rounds through it, and all I have ever done is wipe it down.

Here is the S&W bolt, that has approximately 22k rounds through it.

SWBolt1.jpg


SWBolt2.jpg


SWBolt3.jpg


I run exactly the same type of lube on either BCG's and they run flawlessly. The DI bolt seems to show more wear on the bolt lugs, than the PWS bolt.
 
Re: PWS MK114

The S&W bolt fits right in the PWS BCG, and will actually run in the PWS BCG in the rifle. So, if you ever break a PWS bolt, just drop a DI bolt in it, and keep shooting.

PWSBolt4.jpg


PWSBolt5.jpg
 
Re: PWS MK114

Here you can see the bearing surface... the shiny portion where the metal has polished... this surface is slick as snot.

PWSBolt6.jpg


This picture has the S&W bolt in the PWS BCG... you can see the shiny surfaces where the metal is polished from use.
PWSBolt5.jpg
 
Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BA, I use Amsoil 10-40. Yeah, I know... but by god, it works! </div></div>

Yea...Amsoil will work and I'm a fan of auto oil in AR's BUT... Rotella T synthetic will work better. Its formulated for diesels and as such does a better job of dealing with carbon. Diesels have to deal with a lot of blow-by which contains far more combustion contaminants than auto oil. Try it and you'll see how much easier it is to clean.
D
 
Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What lube are you running big-D </div></div>

AMSOIL 10w-40. I find that I get about eleventy six gazzillion rounds per gallon.

All kidding aside, the Amsoil works wonders. I didn't want to get into the whole "my oil is better than your oil" argument. I was taught this by an old time guy, and I have been using it for years now. Even on my DI guns.

It may be just "motor oil" but, it works great. I have plenty of rifles to testify as to how good it runs.

EDIT to add... I just saw your post Dave... yeah, I will give that a shot. I'm a believer in synthetic oil. It just flat works, and it's cheaper on the pocket. The Rotella makes sense. I will get some next time I am at NAPA... Thanks Brother!!!
 
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