Question on Actions

[Rob01]

If you want to build on a custom you need to add another 1K.

No you don't. I priced it out above. Not the best stock/chassis in the Bravo but plenty workable for the rest of the system.

I agree about the700s. I have built off a few but because I had them already and this was years ago before affordable custom options. 700s can be made to work well but if building today the Origin would be the smarter choice.

 

[Rob01]

Action threads.

Also scope base threads. Usually need to be trued and opened.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

No you don't. I priced it out above. Not the best stock/chassis in the Bravo but plenty workable for the rest of the system.

I suppose that's true, but it's insulting to the BA to throw it in something so cheap and nonmodular. This is only my opinion as I build a rifle though.

The element was fine on my Tikka and as a starter gun, but as soon as I built a custom it went into a Manners and then into an MDT ACC. I don't think I would build a custom without being confident in what I was building it for, in my case this is competition.

 

[Rob01]

I suppose that's true, but it's insulting to the BA to throw it in something so cheap and nonmodular. This is only my opinion as I build a rifle though.

The element was fine on my Tikka and as a starter gun, but as soon as I built a custom it went into a Manners and then into an MDT ACC. I don't think I would build a custom without being confident in what I was building it for, in my case this is competition.

If he looks around he could find a Manners with a mini chassis in the for sale section for around $700. Would put him at about $2150 area. That said plenty of people out there competing with Bravos and with that barreled action set up it wouldn't hold him back in the slightest.

ETA Boom right here. $700

Accessories - Sold

Used manners t2 with mini chassis for rem 700 sa. Stock has an area 419 arca rail and an mpa weighted bag rider bolted and epoxied to it so they can not be removed. It had a kydex cheek riser bolted on but it was removed and the holes were filled. A new butt pad was also installed so the seam...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Win223]

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking Rob's suggestion of putting something together around the Origin.

Since I'm not looking to compete, I think the Bravo would probably suit me well, at least to start. Whichever way I go, I'll be looking to keep the weight from getting too out of hand, so some of the really nice chassis setups are probably not the route I'd end up going anyways.

The modularity of the Origin is really appealing. Being able to use one rifle for a couple of calibers never occurred to me as a possibility until I started reaing threads around here. That is probably worth it to me to wait a bit longer, and save up a few more dollars. I've never been much for building up a big stable of rifles that I don't shoot often, I already have a few that don't get used enough. Maybe its time for them to move on to free up a few more dollars.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

I've never been much for building up a big stable of rifles that I don't shoot often, I already have a few that don't get used enough. Maybe its time for them to move on to free up a few more dollars.

Completely agree. If it doesn't get used, it's getting sold.

 

[Rob01]

Yup that's why I like the caliber change of the Origin/TL3. Just did my TL3 as a 6.5 Creed and .223. Easy swap over. Change barrel, change bolt face and go shoot. Same action, stock and scope so no extra costs for multiple calibers except a barrel.

 

[47guy]

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking Rob's suggestion of putting something together around the Origin.

Since I'm not looking to compete, I think the Bravo would probably suit me well, at least to start. Whichever way I go, I'll be looking to keep the weight from getting too out of hand, so some of the really nice chassis setups are probably not the route I'd end up going anyways.

The modularity of the Origin is really appealing. Being able to use one rifle for a couple of calibers never occurred to me as a possibility until I started reaing threads around here. That is probably worth it to me to wait a bit longer, and save up a few more dollars. I've never been much for building up a big stable of rifles that I don't shoot often, I already have a few that don't get used enough. Maybe its time for them to move on to free up a few more dollars.

now your thinking.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Where is the payoff point with a custom action? I’m planning on jumping into a long range rifle, my primary purposes will be to build better marksmanship skills to extend my hunting range, and satisfy the itch to hit far away targets. Not concerned with competition shooting.

I’ve been reading the forum a lot, and there are obviously a lot of high end rigs on custom actions in use by forum members. I’ve been sipping the kool-aid a bit thinking I’d try to jump on a TL3 or Deviant on the PX, but the custom actions seem to hold their value a little too well for my budget.

I’m looking at a budget of around $2700, maybe up to $3K, for a complete rifle with optic and accessories, ready to shoot. Picking up a custom on the PX pushes me to a point where getting good glass becomes difficult. I’m starting to lean back towards a Bergara now, either the HMR or HMR pro. There is an HMR Pro is 6.5CM available locally for $1600, can’t find a regular HMR in 6.5 CM locally right now. For glass I’m thinking Athlon Cronus, so that’s pushing my budget limit, but I can probably do it.

Circling back to the original question, for someone who isn’t competing and running a rifle hard in tough conditions, is a custom action pushing into the territory of diminishing returns? Are there real accuracy benefits from a custom action, or is just the ability to withstand more wear and tear, and a better or smoother “feel” for the operator?

I’m leaving easy barrel swaps and similar qualities found in custom actions out of the discussion, just the operational comparison of the factory vs. custom action is what I’m curious about.

Mack Bros Evo Stainless
Criterion Prefit from NSS (they'll shave the .015" or so off the breach end to fit) with rem-nut
KRG Bravo or the New Xray
TT Special
Arken Halo rings or used rings on the PX.
$1300 or so for the optic of your preference on the PX.

That's $3k, give or take, and available to anyone. You don't need to have friends in the industry or comb classifieds for the next two years to find someone who's liquidating their shit to pay off their bookie before he breaks their legs. If you spend more, you're looking at minimum return on investment. A quality rife and optic doesn't need to cost anymore than $3k. Your budget is perfect if you don't roped into keeping up with the Joneses.

 

[b6graham]

i'll one up @Rob01

origin/tl3
bravo
PVA prefit
tt special/tt diamond
bravo
vortex strike eagle 5-25
vortex PMR rings

well within budget and nothing on that build is gonna lose value when you upgrade or build another one and keep this as a trainer

new stock/chassis. bravo great trainer
new scope. strike eagle great trainer/22lr scope
get a TL3 with a 223 boltface. origin is great 223 trainer and take the 308 boltface and use for TL3 comp build

 

[Campguy308]

If you want to build on a custom you need to add another 1K.

$550 Tikka action
$750 barrel and chambering
$150 brake
$550 XLR element

That's 2k with a pretty cheap stock.

Also, the extractor and threads being a problem are why you have to have a 700 trued, so it's absolutely common. It's not only common, it's the rule.

Thread problems...ok.

Extractor? I dont buy it.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Thread problems...ok.
Extractor? I dont buy it.

Threads don't line the barrel up to the action, barrel ends up at an angle.

Extractor? I dont buy it.

Extractors are commonly replaced with M16 extractor for this very reason. Mine wouldn't extract for shit. I was constantly ramming something down the barrel to get brass out of the chamber.

 

[Campguy308]

Threads don't line the barrel up to the action, barrel ends up at an angle.

Extractors are commonly replaced with M16 extractor for this very reason. Mine wouldn't extract for shit. I was constantly ramming something down the barrel to get brass out of the chamber.

Yeah like I said, threads I can't disagree.

The standard 700 clip style extractor is fine, and can easily be replaced. You had something else wrong.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Yeah like I said, threads I can't disagree.

The standard 700 clip style extractor is fine, and can easily be replaced. You had something else wrong.

Yeah, ok. I'm not the only person I've run into with this problem. Also, why ever replace it with an M16 extractor if it's unnecessary?

 

[Campguy308]

Yeah, ok. I'm not the only person I've run into with this problem. Also, why ever replace it with an M16 extractor if it's unnecessary?

If people want an M16 extractor that is fine. I personally dont want one on a stock 700 because it requires removal of material from the bolt.

Plus, the stock style works fine. At least over the several thousand rounds that I've had thru multiple 700 rifles over the past 15 years.

Not trying to bash custom actions at all. There's obvious quality and consistency differences in multiple areas. Next one I buy will be a custom. As others have said, there's several great cost effective custom offerings now days, but in most cases, a good 700 action with a good barrel should leave little to be desired for practical purposes.

 

[hereinaz]

If you want to build on a custom you need to add another 1K.

$550 Tikka action
$750 barrel and chambering
$150 brake
$550 XLR element

That's 2k with a pretty cheap stock.

Also, the extractor and threads being a problem are why you have to have a 700 trued, so it's absolutely common. It's not only common, it's the rule.

Ummm, an Origin is only like 300 more than a Tikka action, and the cost for the other parts are the same... and, you can get a prefit for Origin for less than $750.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Ummm, an Origin is only like 300 more than a Tikka action, and the cost for the other parts are the same... and, you can get a prefit for Origin for less than $750.

Sorry, I'm one of those anti prefit guys.

 

[Win223]

What's the argument against going with a prefit? Not close enough tolerances even with the higher end actions?

 

[DisplacedTexan]

What's the argument against going with a prefit? Not close enough tolerances even with the higher end actions?

I prefer to have my gunsmith put hands on my action and barrel.

 

[Rob01]

Just put a PVA prefit on my TL3 and shot it the other day. Not many rounds as just zeroing and putting some through it but this is with 11 year old 140 amax factory ammo. Both 5 shot groups. My first prefit but I am happy so far. I know it will only get better.

 

[Win223]

Understandable wanting a smith to have everything there in case something got quirky. Is there anything in particular you're worried about being off, or that you've had trouble with on a prefit before?

Rob, that kind of performance would certainly be good enough for me, and almost certainly better than me at this point. I am leaning hard towards a Bighorn action, I like the multiple caliber potential a lot. If one pops up on the PX at a decent price, I think I'll try and jump on it.

Any suggestions on barrel brands or tapers in 6.5CM for a rifle that is going to spend time getting packed around? I'm figuring either a 22" or maybe 24", I guess if a barrelled action comes available, that all will make the decision for me.

 

[spife7980]

Understandable wanting a smith to have everything there in case something got quirky. Is there anything in particular you're worried about being off, or that you've had trouble with on a prefit before?

The end product from the smith and the prefit should be exactly the same. If it’s not then your smith fucked up and didn’t cut to spec.

 

[Steel head]

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking Rob's suggestion of putting something together around the Origin.

Since I'm not looking to compete, I think the Bravo would probably suit me well, at least to start. Whichever way I go, I'll be looking to keep the weight from getting too out of hand, so some of the really nice chassis setups are probably not the route I'd end up going anyways.

The modularity of the Origin is really appealing. Being able to use one rifle for a couple of calibers never occurred to me as a possibility until I started reaing threads around here. That is probably worth it to me to wait a bit longer, and save up a few more dollars. I've never been much for building up a big stable of rifles that I don't shoot often, I already have a few that don't get used enough. Maybe its time for them to move on to free up a few more dollars.

Its a big feature for me.
That way the receiver can grow with you.
My nucleus started as a 260 and is now a 7 saum.
Eventually I’m getting a long action so my nucleus will go back to 260 or 6BR.
I also really like mechanical ejection as I can dribble brass out and not have to go chase It down.

 

[DangerRanger]

The end product from the smith and the prefit should be exactly the same. If it’s not then your smith fucked up and didn’t cut to spec.

Or the opposite happened.

 

[spife7980]

Or the opposite happened.

So a smith fucked up and didn’t cut to spec.
Thanks.

 

[MTB doc]

OK, here's a related question. I'm gonna be doing a new build and as always I've gotten great answers from the really knowledgable people around here. One thing I forgot to ask is this. If I start out with a barreled action with a TL3, say from PVA, Keystone, etc., when that first barrel is done, can I remove it at home and install a pre-fit?

 

[spife7980]

Yeah. If you can’t then someone fucked up and didn’t cut the replacement to spec.

OK, here's a related question. I'm gonna be doing a new build and as always I've gotten great answers from the really knowledgable people around here. One thing I forgot to ask is this. If I start out with a barreled action with a TL3, say from PVA, Keystone, etc., when that first barrel is done, can I remove it at home and install a pre-fit?

 

[Secant]

Yeah. If you can’t then someone fucked up and didn’t cut the replacement to spec.

......or.....is it the opposite?!?

 

[MTB doc]

Yeah. If you can’t then someone fucked up and didn’t cut the replacement to spec.

Great, thanks again for all the help

 

[Rob01]

OK, here's a related question. I'm gonna be doing a new build and as always I've gotten great answers from the really knowledgable people around here. One thing I forgot to ask is this. If I start out with a barreled action with a TL3, say from PVA, Keystone, etc., when that first barrel is done, can I remove it at home and install a pre-fit?

As mentioned yup and it's easy. Just went out this morning to shoot my 6.5 Creed barrel some more to put some more rounds down it. When I got home I cleaned the barrel and then swapped it out and put the .223 barrel and bolt face on. Simple and same for if you shoot out a barrel. Simple screw off and then screw on the new one.

 

[Sanwizard]

Where is the payoff point with a custom action? I’m planning on jumping into a long range rifle, my primary purposes will be to build better marksmanship skills to extend my hunting range, and satisfy the itch to hit far away targets. Not concerned with competition shooting.

I’ve been reading the forum a lot, and there are obviously a lot of high end rigs on custom actions in use by forum members. I’ve been sipping the kool-aid a bit thinking I’d try to jump on a TL3 or Deviant on the PX, but the custom actions seem to hold their value a little too well for my budget.

I’m looking at a budget of around $2700, maybe up to $3K, for a complete rifle with optic and accessories, ready to shoot. Picking up a custom on the PX pushes me to a point where getting good glass becomes difficult. I’m starting to lean back towards a Bergara now, either the HMR or HMR pro. There is an HMR Pro is 6.5CM available locally for $1600, can’t find a regular HMR in 6.5 CM locally right now. For glass I’m thinking Athlon Cronus, so that’s pushing my budget limit, but I can probably do it.

Circling back to the original question, for someone who isn’t competing and running a rifle hard in tough conditions, is a custom action pushing into the territory of diminishing returns? Are there real accuracy benefits from a custom action, or is just the ability to withstand more wear and tear, and a better or smoother “feel” for the operator?

I’m leaving easy barrel swaps and similar qualities found in custom actions out of the discussion, just the operational comparison of the factory vs. custom action is what I’m curious about.

Going through a similar process myself. I think the Savage 110 Precision in an MDT stock gets you almost there for around $1200. If you get lucky, it may bughole for you out of the box. I just pulled the plastic stock off my 110 30-06 and installed a pre-fit barrel from NSS and installed on an MDT. Works great. The precision comes with an MDT stock, which costs $1000 by itself. So you get a great platform and a rifle for $200.

Like they say, it aint the action, its the barrel, bullets and brass that matter most.

 

[Sanwizard]

I see Cronus‘s selling for about that on a regular basis on the px.
I hear people say this factory rifle or that factory rifle is as good as a custom but they aren’t. I don’t bother trying to explain why they aren’t because they only say it so they don’t regret buying whatever rifle they have. I know I didn’t fully appreciate the difference until I had my first custom rig.

For me, it depends on if you want accuracy at low cost, or the "feel" of a smooth custom action rig that may or may not be as accurate. I WANT the smoothness, but my budget says otherwise, so it means making the best out of what you have sometimes.

 

[jcmullis2]

For me, it depends on if you want accuracy at low cost, or the "feel" of a smooth custom action rig that may or may not be as accurate. I WANT the smoothness, but my budget says otherwise, so it means making the best out of what you have sometimes.

You’re absolutely right. If a fella is happy with his rifle he doesn’t need a $2-$3k custom rig especially if it’s not in his budget. I’ve got many factory rifles that are sub moa. I recently bought a new Remington 700p 308 for $750. It came with a hs precision stock, 26 inch threaded barrel, 40x trigger that adjusts down to 1.5Lbs and shoots sub .5 moa with factory ammo. So there’s nothing wrong with a inexpensive factory rifle. I’m saying some of these factory tikka and Remington rifles cost the same or more than a entry level custom. The manufacturers put their barreled action in a pretty chassis. A guy comes along and shells out $2-$3k for it and later on realizes he could’ve had a custom rig. Instead of acknowledging his mistake he tells himself and others how it’s just as good as a custom rifle and they should get one too. There’s probably one or two of those in this post. I think it’s a pretty shitty thing to do but misery loves company.

 

[impactaddict]

I’m saying some of these factory tikka and Remington rifles cost the same or more than a entry level custom. The manufacturers put their barreled action in a pretty chassis.A guy comes along and shells out $2-$3k for it and later on realizes he could’ve had a custom rig. Instead of acknowledging his mistake he tells himself and others how it’s just as good as a custom rifle and they should get one too.

I've never spent to much money trying to save money by going with an R700 action the first go round on a custom. Rifle was very accurate but just didn't do everything I wanted once I started competing in matches. Parted out that rifle, purchased an AI, and never looked back. Lesson learned.

 

[hereinaz]

Sorry, I'm one of those anti prefit guys.

Your comfort level is good. Not gonna argue with it, understand 100%.

But, most guys can't shoot the difference, as they say... and manufacturer tolerances are so awesome for shouldered prefits.