Question on headspace and FL resizing

[aron]

I've been using a Redding Type S FL sizing die and previously just been following their directions for setting up die until now. I have a hornady headspace gauge and was going to set up the die to bump the shoulder back 0.002".

I started with the die making contact with the shell holder and backed it out quarter turn. Then compared the headspace length from the fired brass to the resized and it did not change. I continued to tighten the die in 1/16" increments and recorded the length until it made full contact with the shell holder, however it actually increased the length by 0.001".

The cartridge fits in the chamber snug (requires same pressure as fired brass). I am using federal brass and remington 700. Brand new lapua brass fits easier in the chamber and same with federal match king ammo. My question is how common is this to see or am i doing something wrong?

 

[Captain Kirk]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

Nothing wrong on your end, you may need a short base die, I have also machined the base of a few dies to get the same effect.

Here is a trick I use, use a piece of feeler guage under the case on the shellholder the desired thickness you want to bump the case neck. You need to punch or drill a hole on the feeler guage, or remove the decaping pin.

Kirk R

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

Brass gets longer in a FL die before it gets shorter, keep screwing the die down until the HS gauge says .001 less

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Brass gets longer in a FL die before it gets shorter, keep screwing the die down until the HS gauge says .001 less </div></div>

This.

The shoulder will move forward as the brass is pushed into the die.

 

[tt350z]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

I wonder if it has to do with the elasticity of the brass.

I'd imagine if you don't screw the die in deep enough, the brass will stretch out a little bit because it wants to stick to the walls of the die, stretching it out a smidge when you extract the brass from the die. So maybe, to actually get the desired depth, you probably have to go say .002'' deeper than the desired depth to account for some of it's stretch.

Just a thought I had since I noticed my brass got longer before it got shorter.

Also, did you check the length of the brass? It might have stretched a bit, increasing the resistance felt when you tried to chamber your brass, seeing as how you said brand new Lapua brass felt normal.

Whereabouts in ND are you?

 

[aron]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

The die already makes contact with the shell holder so you really can't screw it down farther.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tt350z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if it has to do with the elasticity of the brass.

I'd imagine if you don't screw the die in deep enough, the brass will stretch out a little bit because it wants to stick to the walls of the die, stretching it out a smidge when you extract the brass from the die. So maybe, to actually get the desired depth, you probably have to go say .002'' deeper than the desired depth to account for some of it's stretch.

Just a thought I had since I noticed my brass got longer before it got shorter.

Also, did you check the length of the brass? It might have stretched a bit, increasing the resistance felt when you tried to chamber your brass, seeing as how you said brand new Lapua brass felt normal.

Whereabouts in ND are you? </div></div>

Wow, just wow.....

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The die already makes contact with the shell holder so you really can't screw it down farther. </div></div>

The easiest thing to do is chuck the shell holder up in a lathe and turn about .010" off of the top of it, where it contacts the die. You can then adjust it down enough to get your shoulder bump.

If you don't have a lathe, or know someone who does, send me a PM..........

 

[fw707]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kirk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing wrong on your end, you may need a short base die, I have also machined the base of a few dies to get the same effect.

Here is a trick I use, use a piece of feeler guage under the case on the shellholder the desired thickness you want to bump the case neck. You need to punch or drill a hole on the feeler guage, or remove the decaping pin.

Kirk R </div></div>




That's a slick trick right there.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The die already makes contact with the shell holder so you really can't screw it down farther. </div></div>

The easiest thing to do is chuck the shell holder up in a lathe and turn about .010" off of the top of it, where it contacts the die. You can then adjust it down enough to get your shoulder bump.

If you don't have a lathe, or know someone who does, send me a PM.......... </div></div>

This will work, but remember to mark that shell holder.


I have a Redding F/L S die that sizes well down to minimum head space. I use a Lyman Orange Crusher press. It "cams over". Some presses do not cam over such as Kirk's Bonanza press. On presses that cam over, you raise the ram up until the die touches the shell holder. There is a fine adjustment where the press cams over where you can actually turn your die in just a bit more. This may be enough for you to get the shoulder bump you need.

I have my F/L S die set to to maximum. It will resize once fired brass to easily fit into my tight chambered rifle. To bump the shoulder back .001"-.002" after being fired in my Rifle, I set my Hornady or Sinclair bump gages and I zero my digital calipers on my fired cases (depriming them so not to get a false head space reading). The gauge will read "0.00" with the fired case set into the gauge.

Since I don't ned to resize these case back to minimum, I use a .003" to .006" "Skip's" shim to get the proper shoulder bump to - .001" to -.002". http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33197/Product/Skip_s_die_shim_kit____7_8_14_

I will then take notes as to the proper shim with what brand brass.
Different brands of brass will give different readings. Winchester and Hornady brass seems a little softer than military brass. On Military brass, I may have to use a thinner shim to get the proper shoulder bump (little more). Different brands of brass can make a difference in how much or little spring back you get.

Experiment with different brands of cases and remember to deprime your fired cases so you don't get a false reading.

You will also find the kind of type of sizing lubricant can also make a difference in how much the die is resized and how much spring back you will get. When you're trying to measure down to .001"-.002" you have to be consistent as to how you're sizing. For sizing lube I have used Dillon spray (great for big jobs) or Imperial die wax to Mink Oil, Bag Balm and even Chapstick. They all work well.

 

[predatornut]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tt350z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if it has to do with the elasticity of the brass.

I'd imagine if you don't screw the die in deep enough, the brass will stretch out a little bit because it wants to stick to the walls of the die, stretching it out a smidge when you extract the brass from the die. So maybe, to actually get the desired depth, you probably have to go say .002'' deeper than the desired depth to account for some of it's stretch.

Just a thought I had since I noticed my brass got longer before it got shorter.

Also, did you check the length of the burass? It might have stretched a bit, increasing the resistance felt when you tried to chamber your brass, seeing as how you said brand new Lapua brass felt normal.

Whereabouts in ND are you? </div></div>

The brass does not stick to the die. That is what lube is for. The reason it gets longer before it gets shorter is the die is squeezing the brass and it has to go somewhere so it gets longer. When the shoulder of the die hits the brass it pushes it back. This is why you have to trim brass after a few firings.

In response to the OP, Redding makes shellholders in different sizes to control headspace, sounds like just what you need. And where in ND are you?

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

It's my understanding, the Redding competition shell holder set are 5 holders in +2 to +10 increments. If the O/P is having his die not bumping the shoulder back enough, shouldn't he need a shell holder in the negative (- ) side?

 

[aron]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: predatornut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tt350z</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if it has to do with the elasticity of the brass.

I'd imagine if you don't screw the die in deep enough, the brass will stretch out a little bit because it wants to stick to the walls of the die, stretching it out a smidge when you extract the brass from the die. So maybe, to actually get the desired depth, you probably have to go say .002'' deeper than the desired depth to account for some of it's stretch.

Just a thought I had since I noticed my brass got longer before it got shorter.

Also, did you check the length of the burass? It might have stretched a bit, increasing the resistance felt when you tried to chamber your brass, seeing as how you said brand new Lapua brass felt normal.

Whereabouts in ND are you? </div></div>

The brass does not stick to the die. That is what lube is for. The reason it gets longer before it gets shorter is the die is squeezing the brass and it has to go somewhere so it gets longer. When the shoulder of the die hits the brass it pushes it back. This is why you have to trim brass after a few firings.

In response to the OP, Redding makes shellholders in different sizes to control headspace, sounds like just what you need. And where in ND are you? </div></div>

I'm located in Fargo.

 

[aron]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FLIGHT762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's my understanding, the Redding competition shell holder set are 5 holders in +2 to +10 increments. If the O/P is having his die not bumping the shoulder back enough, shouldn't he need a shell holder in the negative (- ) side?

</div></div>

you are correct on the shellholders, I need one to to bump the shoulder back more.

I do like the idea of putting the shellholder in a lathe and turning off some to allow for the die to be turned down more.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

Just screw the die down further, if the press goes over center so be it.

 

[predatornut]

Re: Question on headspace and FL resizing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FLIGHT762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's my understanding, the Redding competition shell holder set are 5 holders in +2 to +10 increments. If the O/P is having his die not bumping the shoulder back enough, shouldn't he need a shell holder in the negative (- ) side?

</div></div>


My mistake. I assumed they would make them for both + and -.