Question re: 185 Berger Juggernaut

[Dacam]

Hey guys,
I loaded up some 185g Berger Jugger's today.
24" Lothar Walther 1/12 twist
Lapua brass
OAL - 2.865
210m primer

Loaded 42.0 all the way to 44.0 Varget. I got great results with the 44.0 load @ 2677fps.
Question is this 44.0 load too hot? I did not get any pressure signs at all but Im kinda concerned about the speed.
It seems a little fast for this heavy bullet. Or am I paranoid. I did get some "ok" groups with 43.4.
What do you guys think? Can you suggest a load for this heavy badboy? I also have IMR 4064 too.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Depends on the lot of powder, and the temps you'll be shooting. If you loaded them up in the winter then I'd say they will be a little on the hotter side when it warns up. As long as your not getting over pressure signs I say shoot em!

 

[kansas]

I'm using almost exactly same everything as you and it's my best long range load but I can't find any of these bullets. I'm shooting a 22"
Criterion barrel with a Tbac suppressor and getting 2650 fps without any pressure signs. I may be seating a little longer than you but they fit in my alpha 2 mags.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm running them .018 off the lands in my AX 1:10 24" and getting 2700 with 45gr. 45.5 was fine and 46 blew some shit past the primer so I settled on 45gr since it gave me a ES of 9 and SD of 1. I'm using Lapua brass also but WLR primers. I'd go .5gr at a time until you find your pressure point. From my experience with 1:12 lothars you should have quite a bit left in it velocity wise.

 

[40xs]

The 185 Berger Jugger can be loaded way further out, depending on your chamber lead. I have a match chamber, slightly more tolerant than a palmer, and a fairly short lead. I can still run the juggers about .018 longer than the vld's. And I went from 43.8 varg. to 44.2 with no change in pressure signs. I did back off to 44.1 for steady match diet. I can barely feel touching powder at top dead center in the seater die. Check your oal length on your lead room, your load may be just fine.

 

[40xs]

Sorry for the poor edit. that's palma, not palmer!!

 

[matt2143]

I load then to an AOL of 2.955" and have them over 46.5 grains of PP 2000MR with a TON space in the case. I am getting 2680 from a 20" Bartlein 5R 1-10 suppressed. I would expect 2590-2600 from Varget in my rig at 20". Listen to Redneckbmxer24, he has solid data for Varget.

 

[Dacam]

I settled on the 43.0 Varget load but played
around with seating depth. I've found that
-.020 off the lands produce great groups at 100
with 2630fps. I still need to confirm at 500.
I also want to switch cases to Winchester as I have
a ton of. Would my charge weights increase?

 

[2ndPanzer]

I load then to an AOL of 2.955" and have them over 46.5 grains of PP 2000MR with a TON space in the case. I am getting 2680 from a 20" Bartlein 5R 1-10 suppressed. I would expect 2590-2600 from Varget in my rig at 20". Listen to Redneckbmxer24, he has solid data for Varget.

I load them at 2.95 in a throated Obermeyer chamber 1-11 Krieger in an AR-10 ( Armalite) and thats about the limit on a gas gun, I get 2650 ish out of a 20 in barrel, and same loads in a factory M700 5R 24 in, I get 2700, but no pressure signs at all. they will literally fall out of the case if I seat them to touch in the Remington, and are .010 off in the AR-10.

Guard Team loads them with 43.5 Varget fior their AR10's and the Army has dropped down to 44.2 or so from 45.0 for theirs. I still like the 45.0 for mine. I did use the 43.5 load to win the SR LR for the Rocky mountain Regionals in Montana recently. The load worked, but was not as accurate as the 45.0 load is, and I have used both at 600, always getting a higher score with the 45.0 load and a 3 min difference in elevation between the two.

 

[Dacam]

I'm running them .018 off the lands in my AX 1:10 24" and getting 2700 with 45gr. 45.5 was fine and 46 blew some shit past the primer so I settled on 45gr since it gave me a ES of 9 and SD of 1. I'm using Lapua brass also but WLR primers. I'd go .5gr at a time until you find your pressure point. From my experience with 1:12 lothars you should have quite a bit left in it velocity wise.

I am going to try this coming weekend to up the charge weights by .5 until I hit pressure limits. I want to see how far I can push it. I too believe that I have much more left
in the LW barrel.

 

[markgrabowski]

IMHO, based upon previous personal experience developing loads in colder weather, I would choose the accuracy load with the lowest powder charge for the velocity node you seek... that'll give you some room once the temperatures are higher during warmer months...
I made the mistake of developing some loads for my Palma gun in 60 degree weather.... found a nice node at the velocity I was looking for.... a month later I shot that ammo at Lodi, 90 degrees out, ruined an entire box of Lapua brass as it was now over-pressure... dumb move on my part :-(

 

[Dacam]

IMHO, based upon previous personal experience developing loads in colder weather, I would choose the accuracy load with the lowest powder charge for the velocity node you seek... that'll give you some room once the temperatures are higher during warmer months...
I made the mistake of developing some loads for my Palma gun in 60 degree weather.... found a nice node at the velocity I was looking for.... a month later I shot that ammo at Lodi, 90 degrees out, ruined an entire box of Lapua brass as it was now over-pressure... dumb move on my part :-(

I hear what your saying, it makes a lot of sense but I really would like to know the limits of my rifle and ammo.
With that being said, I made it to 47.0g of Varget and began to see signs of over pressure. Flat primers and light ejector marks.
The groups were not very good so I'll stick to the 43g load.
Has anyone used IMR4064 with these Juggs? Ive got a few pounds of this stuff and I want to try it out.

 

[parker_chp]

I've run the 190 smk's with 44 gr. of varget with no problems.

 

[jsbowers1]

Dacam,

Did you ever work up a decent load with IMR 4064? I got my hands on some Juggernauts and would like to work up a decent load using federal brass and IMR 4064. I could surely use a good starting point if you have any to suggest! I'm also feeling adventurous and want to see how a 20in 1-12 will handle this.

 

[Pusher591]

Sub'n for results

 

[Aimsmall55]

Dacam,

Did you ever work up a decent load with IMR 4064? I got my hands on some Juggernauts and would like to work up a decent load using federal brass and IMR 4064. I could surely use a good starting point if you have any to suggest! I'm also feeling adventurous and want to see how a 20in 1-12 will handle this.

I found a good load with 4064 and a 185 Juggernaut. I wrote the wrong data. It was 42.4 grains. I had them loaded AICS mag length and they still shoot lights out

 

[jsbowers1]

I found a good load with 4064 and a 185 Juggernaut. I wrote the wrong data. It was 42.4 grains. I had them loaded AICS mag length and they still shoot lights out

Aimsmall55,

That looks like it's working out great for you! Good shooting and thanks for the info.. I'll have to give that a try. What set up are you shooting? especially barrel length and twist?

 

[Aimsmall55]

Aimsmall55,

That looks like it's working out great for you! Good shooting and thanks for the info.. I'll have to give that a try. What set up are you shooting? especially barrel length and twist?

It's a custom....
AICS 1.5, stiller Tac 30, 1:11.25 twist Bartlein #9 at 28"

 

[mj1995]

Hey guys,
I loaded up some 185g Berger Jugger's today.

24" Lothar Walther 1/12 twist
Lapua brass
OAL - 2.865
210m primer

Loaded 42.0 all the way to 44.0 Varget. I got great results with the 44.0 load @ 2677fps.
Question is this 44.0 load too hot? I did not get any pressure signs at all but Im kinda concerned about the speed.
It seems a little fast for this heavy bullet. Or am I paranoid. I did get some "ok" groups with 43.4.
What do you guys think? Can you suggest a load for this heavy badboy? I also have IMR 4064 too.

How does this bullet do in a 12 twist at range? Do they stabilize good? At say 1000.

 

[Seandradamus]

My load is 42.6 imr 4064
2.230 lto about 2.9 oal

Very accurate true .25 to .33 moa
Gap 22" 1-11.25 twist.

I also shoot them same length with rl17 at 48.4 gr.

No chrono yet but it's almost 2 moa flatter at 200 yards compared to the imr load but accuracy drops to .5 or .75 moa

 

[Dshooter]

Driving nails at 200yds with 47.6 gr PP2000mr and .090 off the lands. Last time out tried .070-.110 off lands and shot better with long jump vs close to lands. ES of 9 and SD 4. 2740avg out of 26" 12tw krieger

 

[Dshooter]

I was a touch off on my info, sorry. I went back to my note and pics to confirm. 47.6gr 2000mr. My group also at 200yd with that chrono reading. 5 shots and I pulled the low flier....

 

[redneckbmxer24]

To update this my 45gr varget load began showing some pressure signs after the first 200 rounds or so of it. It wasn't bad just leaking some gas by the primer. I shot the rest of what I had loaded yesterday (60 rounds). The last time I chronod it was during development and the barrel only had 150 or so rounds on it and was running 2700fps. Yesterday I was averaging 2750fps and still had an excellent ES and SD.

I also did a ladder test yesterday with power pro 2000 with the same seating depth, loads were 44-49gr every .5gr. I had several nodes in there but I was impressed with the velocity. 48.0gr and 48.5gr was a node dead nuts on 2800fps and 49gr climbed higher at 2842fps. I never thought I'd see that kind of velocity from a 308 with this bullet and no pressure. I'll be going back out Wednesday to do some testing at 48-48.5gr.

 

[Aimsmall55]

To update this my 45gr varget load began showing some pressure signs after the first 200 rounds or so of it. It wasn't bad just leaking some gas by the primer. I shot the rest of what I had loaded yesterday (60 rounds). The last time I chronod it was during development and the barrel only had 150 or so rounds on it and was running 2700fps. Yesterday I was averaging 2750fps and still had an excellent ES and SD.

I also did a ladder test yesterday with power pro 2000 with the same seating depth, loads were 44-49gr every .5gr. I had several nodes in there but I was impressed with the velocity. 48.0gr and 48.5gr was a node dead nuts on 2800fps and 49gr climbed higher at 2842fps. I never thought I'd see that kind of velocity from a 308 with this bullet and no pressure. I'll be going back out Wednesday to do some testing at 48-48.5gr.

What brass you using and what's your bbl length. My go to load now is 47.0 pp2000mr , lapua brass at 2.860. I can't remember the ogive. Out of a 28" bartlein with lapua brass I'm getting around 2815 to 2825 fps. They shoot great. Only 29.8 moa at 1,000 yards. Seems to be a very jump tolerant bullet. I had originally planned on shooting the 208 amaxs and had the throat cut long but like I said the 185's are flatter and much more forgiving when doing hold overs compared to the 208's bc they're not falling nearly as fast.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It's a 24" AINA bartlein and I'm using lapua brass. In addition to the ladder test I loaded up another 3x each at 46.5, 47.0, and 47.5 to test as that's where others have seen nodes and pressure. Indefinitely have a narrow node at 47.0, they went into a .09moa group and had a single digit ES. I'm more curious about the 48-48.5gr though because it's a wider node and 50fps faster.

 

[levi8599]

43.5gr IMR 4064 lapua brass 185gr juggernaut. I load out to 2.87oal and I am getting 2750fps and shooting bugholes.