I have owned DT and AI. My DT was wicked accurate, but the magazines were the worst I've ever seen. I mean the worst. Sold it... I still have my AI - its bomb proof...
- Thread starter Islas82
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Are you missing a zero or two? 1500 rounds is barely broken in...
I've had a couple of parts breaking in my DTA and QA issues.
Trigger shoe cracked.
Factory barrel extension didn't fit
1 Magazine that simply wouldn't fit and 1 that would drop on its own due to recoil.
My biggest concern was the lack of response from DTA. Pretty much every single issue I had with DTA, I had to fix myself, except the trigger shoe but that took like 6 months to get the part.
I still like the platform, but I'd never trust it like I do with an AI or a ARC.
Trigger shoe cracked.
Factory barrel extension didn't fit
1 Magazine that simply wouldn't fit and 1 that would drop on its own due to recoil.
My biggest concern was the lack of response from DTA. Pretty much every single issue I had with DTA, I had to fix myself, except the trigger shoe but that took like 6 months to get the part.
I still like the platform, but I'd never trust it like I do with an AI or a ARC.
Read through all this and just wanted to toss my 2 cents in for you. I had an AIAT and it was great and had to sell it. Fast forward couple years and same thoughts as you... one action, chassis, scope, etc but with different barrels and different bolt heads and easy way to swap it. I chose a bighorn TL3 and run shouldered prefits with wrench flats in the barrel. When I want to change barrels I stand the rifle up and use a crows foot wrench end and take the barrel off and put on another. I use a torque wrench set at 30ft lbs and it works perfect. Use it for 6.5cm and 6gt and have the 223 bolt head to swap if I want to change out to that. It's accurate and repeatable and works great. The new seekins HIT rifle is nice and I would look at one for sure if I was in your shoes. Otherwise, anything that uses a shouldered prefit can work as a quick change setup.
Unless the previous owner coated his bolt in lapping paste for those 1,500 rounds, the rifle being being mechanically "worn out" in 1,500 rounds is very hard to believe. Regardless of manufacturer.
And I'll stand by that statement all day every day.
So, what else was worn out on this rifle you looked at?
No, 1,500 rounds is right.
@The King said the one he looked at was "it was Falling apart level worn out" at 1,500 rds and lumped all DTA's into that category.
Mine is still as tight as a button, so I wanted to know what should have already worn out on mine (that hasn't) in less rounds than I already have through it.
Yes. I did.
I encountered a DTA SRS A1 that the seller said had 1500 rounds through it that did not operate any more, the magazine was cracked in half so that when I ejected it from the rifle the follower and spring went flying, and the safety could not be set to on anymore. Additionally, the bolt was worn substantially.
He wanted $3000 and that included a Vortex Razor Gen 1. It had been shown to 4 people already who hadn’t bought it either.
Also, just to be perfectly clear here and make sure I communicate properly: DTA is a company run by cock sucking assholes that make a product that sucks any left over unserviced dick. If I were emotional in any way, I would cry myself to sleep each night with a prayer to god that he save DTA owners from their folly.
I feel this way because of the 4 DTA rifles we did buy all being broke out of the box. In completely different ways.
And, finally, you can kiss my ass.
The one I looked at was doing this for sure. It was part of my "worn to shit" statement.
And no - nothing is perfect. I had the ARC Barloc and it didn't ever shoot well, and I finally got my AI AXSR to work right this month after a few run ins with customer support.
Ok but would you get past the foreplay and just give us the unedited version…
Frank has asked me not to post pics of the DTA thing. Something about it looking like a big black cock penetrating a terrified looking butthole. Pixel for pixel.
If DTA was the only gunmaker on the planet, I would probably own the A2. They did a better job on it. I hope at some point they sell the company entirely to someone like LRI and I can buy an MDRX that works. Its a great design if it were done a little better.
I think at the end of the day I'm so pissed at them for how close they got...same reason I'm pissed at Kel-tec. The RDB is a fucking awesome design, and if someone competent had built it it would rule the bullpup world.
As for my current intense dislike? I don't let a company sell me 4 defective rifles that all have completely different defects and I just choke it down and say they are still a good place to buy a gun from.
If I buy 10 guns from you 1 of them gets to have a problem of some sort that you fix so fast I can't even remember sending it in for service. Not "here is a box of guns - every one of them is broken. good luck".
Can’t blame you one bit. I’ve often heard good things but there’s enough bs sprinkled in there to keep me away. Fanatical fanboism also tends to turn me off as well. You can love a product and still be honest about its shortcomings, some have not learned this lesson!
I was there with AI. Not fanatical....but I just couldn't imagine it being anything but the best experience I had ever had with a new factory rifle.
It sure wasn't. I like it now that its fixed...but...
I have had more than a lot of precision bolt guns. I don't practically have a budget for gun stuff - I just see it and buy it. Comes from the kids moving out and becoming adults and me selling my house for an insane amount of money years ago. The ones that really seemed to work out well were the Sako's, Tikkas, Steyr SBS was pretty good, etc. I have probably owned 300 bolt guns and shoot 6-7 days a week.
The only other manufacturer I lump in with DTA is Christensen. I have a stack of their guns that shoot fine...but god fucking help you if you get a POS from them. Its always you not them...their guns are perfect etc etc. Had several of their .300 PRC guns that wouldn't shoot, and my 6.5 PRC Christensen stops ejecting after it gets even mildly warm.
On topic for this discussion - the best switch barrel rifle I encountered was actually the Sig SSG3000. Returned to zero perfectly, every barrel was less than 1/2 moa, etc etc. Loved that gun, and its one of the shittiest things in our industry that its not really big over here.
So what were these different defects on different rifles straight out of the box?
It's a nice story you're spinning, but data, man. C'mon. Be specific...
To summarize, MDRx 1 = blown primers on almost every round due to chambering defects, MDRx 2 = shot the end out of the suppressor due to bad muzzle threads, MDRx 3 = ejected the magazine every time you fired it, and finally MDR 4 = cracked plastic around the take down pins.
Every one of them loved jamming, changing the magazines was impossible when you decided to do it and not the gun, etc.
What sucked the worst is the 6.5 CM barrel shot better than any other semi-auto 6.5 I had ever shot up until then (my LMT beats it now). Several .25" groups. I was elated. Until I realized it had blown every single primer in a box of factory ammo.
DTA "fixed" them. And then this SRS A1 showed up looking like a 50,000 round "test to destruction" military trail sample.
Fool me once, DTA...shame on you. Fool me twice DTA, go fuck yourself. Fool me three times DTA, eat a dick. Fool me four times DTA, die in a fire. But I do learn after a while. The 5th DTA junk show got to stink up someone else's safe.
Gotcha... Glad yours is holding up for you. I wish the mags were better - I might still have mine if they were.
If you spend long enough on the Hide and take your ego out of justifying your own purchases you can get a good sense of what products tend to work and which ones have a higher percentage of issues. You always get a guy that bought a Savage (usually a new guy) "that has been badass from beginning to end, even with South African surplus 3 moa ammo that shoots half moa that one time he shot a 3 shot group".
@The King has shared data with the OP, he doesn't really have any reason to lie that we know of. If the OP is smart he will avoid companies like Christensen or DTA. He might luck out, or not. But it sucks for people with a limited budget that save up for that "buy-once-cry-once" rifle and get a lemon. That's where valuable input from people that have owned ALOT of these products can save you a lot of potential time, money and aggravation.
Like has been said, EVERY company can have issues, how they deal with it matters. If a company is ALWAYS having issues though, especially smaller ones that don't have a ton of products out there then that should be warning sign for people looking to spend their hard earned money.
@The King has shared data with the OP, he doesn't really have any reason to lie that we know of. If the OP is smart he will avoid companies like Christensen or DTA. He might luck out, or not. But it sucks for people with a limited budget that save up for that "buy-once-cry-once" rifle and get a lemon. That's where valuable input from people that have owned ALOT of these products can save you a lot of potential time, money and aggravation.
Like has been said, EVERY company can have issues, how they deal with it matters. If a company is ALWAYS having issues though, especially smaller ones that don't have a ton of products out there then that should be warning sign for people looking to spend their hard earned money.
Except @The King has not been forthcoming at all with what the actual issues were with ALL of the DTA products he has claimed to have looked at or claims to have purchased and returned.
All he gave was less than vague statements until prodding, and then proceeded with what I still think is a bullshit claim about the magazine, and to provide even more hearsay about further different rifles.
The other post involving the poor coating in the action is the kind of real world data we need in these threads, not some vague nonsense by someone who has an obvious chip on their shoulder.
Long story short, the AI fanboys are out in force in this thread, and not without reason. It is an excellent product. However, the AI quick change platform is sub par compared to the Desert Tech system. Which is what is being discussed here.
Does the SRS platform make compromises in order to achieve it's objectives? Yes. Do those pro's outweigh the cons? Only the user can decide, but there is not another rifle on the market that does what the SRS does.
Mine, and a lot more like mine have been, and are continuing to be completely MECHANICALLY functional, if not somewhat agricultural.
I almost got ejected from this site for my commentary on recent AI's and their quality control...as a side note. The fan-boi over here isn't strong for sure.
I would be interested in hearing what makes you consider the DTA quick change better than the AI? I ask because I don't have issues with the AI mechanism in any way and I appreciate the barrels being 1/2 the cost of DTA's and 1/4 the cost of the Barrett. So much so that the only reason I don't have the Barrett is barrel cost.
Then again - I shoot a bit so barrel cost means something to me. I threw away my first proof AI barrel this year in .300 PRC and have tossed two 6.5 PRC barrels. It was a sad day for one of the 6.5 PRC barrels as it was a .2 shooter the majority of the time.
Can anyone confirm or deny that proof pre fits for the Zeus are compatible with the Valor?
The new Gunwerks Nexus is apparently a quick change design that might be worth looking at:
www.gunwerks.com
Nexus Rifle System
Featuring Gunwerks' NXT action and interchangeable barrel system, the Nexus is the future of long range hunting.
www.gunwerks.com Looks like its a pre-fit headspace tolerance on that one, but use a vice and wrench gig? Or is there a field swap mechanism I'm missing?
Looks neat.The new Gunwerks Nexus is apparently a quick change design that might be worth looking at:
Nexus Rifle System
Featuring Gunwerks' NXT action and interchangeable barrel system, the Nexus is the future of long range hunting.
Not sure how they are going to slide in a "patent pending" type thing there. Its an extension captured in a clamp. There are a half dozen guns that use this mechanism already.
I have owned 2 AI's, don't own any now. My AI AT was a great platform, quick change barrels, smooth bolt and one of the most accurate guns I have owned. It functioned fine until I tried to run a 6 BR in it, the HRD kit in the AW mag made it work 95%. My AXMC long action turned out to not be all I had hoped, I actually preferred the AT.
Both seemed overpriced for what you can do on custom actions now so I sold them and built several guns on Bighorn Origins, which have been great for what I used them for. I'm missing the smooth 60 degree throw and quick change feature of the AI so I'm going to try out a Zeus Terminus. The new AT-X is having feeding issues and AI has become annoying with their delayed releases, blaming everyone else for things not working and their apparent disregard for the civilian market. No fanboi here. They have made quality MILITARY sniper systems for a long time but I think there are better options for civilians now with American companies (Seekins HIT being one I have high hopes for).
I shot a DT A1 338 Desert Tech years ago and it was VERY accurate. I was impressed with the accuracy. That was about 13 years ago and there are better options now, quality control issues aside. The bullpup design is almost unusable from anything but prone from what I have observed but I have spent no time training with it, have no desire to. I don't see them at matches anymore. It would be silly to sell a guy on a Desert Tech and ignore mag and wear issues. Buying these rifles is buying a "system" so if it has one great feature but lots of the undesirable ones like high QC issues, lack of support for accessories/barrels, etc then that's important for someone to know before they buy into the system.
If you buy an AI you get a robust, proven system that's probably a bit overpriced and overhyped but in its stock military configuration is a very good military sniper rifle. It has multiple pre-fit barrel options (that average $200 more than a pre-fits for custom actions but cheaper than DT or Battery by alot) and are extremely accurate. The standard chassis is not great for barricades and PRS type comps and is too heavy for NRL Hunter and a lot of other field matches.
The AT-X is supposed to fix these problems with its chassis but it seems like too little too late to me, especially since it doesn't work with their own AW mags sometimes and that's somehow everyone else's fault. If I go back to an AI I’ll likely get an AT with the stock military trigger and put it in an Accuracy Obsession chassis.
The Zeus and Seekins HIT I have on order may make that irrelevant though. I think Glenn is going to sell ALOT of those HIT’s once people realize what a value they are.
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Another thing to consider is, barrels with wrench cuts is effectively quick change system and has been since the days of the old AI AW.
My Archimedes is quick change in the field without a barrel vise, all I need is a 12 pt wrench and if I want to be precise, a torque wrench and a action wrench.
Sad that the ATX is having feeding issues, that was my one thing about my AI that I used to own, I never encountered feeding issues whatsoever in any conditions and when I switched over to Remington based actions and chassis I was surprised at how many were not running that great until I got in the customs (defiances, ARC, etc) and now I can almost trust my ARC as much as I trusted my AI but still nervous about the possibilities of trigger issues or firing pin failing to ignite issues but haven’t encountered them yet but it’ll take a couple thousand rounds in various conditions until my mind will be 100% at ease.
My Archimedes is quick change in the field without a barrel vise, all I need is a 12 pt wrench and if I want to be precise, a torque wrench and a action wrench.
Sad that the ATX is having feeding issues, that was my one thing about my AI that I used to own, I never encountered feeding issues whatsoever in any conditions and when I switched over to Remington based actions and chassis I was surprised at how many were not running that great until I got in the customs (defiances, ARC, etc) and now I can almost trust my ARC as much as I trusted my AI but still nervous about the possibilities of trigger issues or firing pin failing to ignite issues but haven’t encountered them yet but it’ll take a couple thousand rounds in various conditions until my mind will be 100% at ease.
The robustness of AI systems is overblown, to the point of mythical status.
They can and do fail, I've seen more than a few go down in matches. And there's been more than a few reports of manufacturing QA/QC issues recently on here from AI's.
Now, don't get wrong, AI's are great rifles. They just aren't as mythically indestructible as they are made out to be. They have the advantage of making all the parts to the rifle, so it's a true system. Generally that means that there's less issues from a QA/QC and tolerance stacking standpoint, but as we've seen recently that doesn't mean they are 100% immune.
I trust my ARC Mausingfield rifle as much as any AI. You can build a custom rifle that's every bit as reliable as an AI today. 10-15 years ago that wasn't the case, but components today have come an extremely long ways.
AI's make great rifles, and if they fit you, it's a great system. But custom rifles today, when using the correct parts and assembled by a competent gunsmith, can rival AI's in reliability. I have no doubt about that.
SIG Cross. Need barrel extension ( most now reuse the one in orig barrel) and possibly different bolt head (replaceable). local smith is looking to produce 223 bolt head, and also barrel extensions (SIG way behind due to demand for new guns to offer those yet. And of course 277 sig.
CZ 600 series. You can replace barrel and bolthead. Got one coming in 223, local smith preparing swap barrel in 204 ruger. The same short action can also be switched to 7.62x39, requires different barrel and bolt head. CZ does ship that caliber, so eventually ill be able to get bolt head and barrel
CZ 600 series. You can replace barrel and bolthead. Got one coming in 223, local smith preparing swap barrel in 204 ruger. The same short action can also be switched to 7.62x39, requires different barrel and bolt head. CZ does ship that caliber, so eventually ill be able to get bolt head and barrel
Isn't their recall fix to get rid of user replaceable barrels?
With the ARC stuff it only works correctly if you throw it down and assemble it in the sand or gravel pit as illustrated by Ted….
. His non chalant attitude about slapping the barrel on in such circumstances makes me cringe a little but I’m sure that was his point. I’m running a few Nucleus actions with prefit barrels and they have ran wonderfully with excellent accuracy as well.
I wasnt aware of a recall. Sig or CZ?
The owner at WTO is good people too, I love those West Texas guys.
I bought a Proof Research.223 barrel, and when I installed it the safety would not move. The root cause was the skins interfered with the safety mechanism because the barrel shank diameter is a few thousandths small, and the extra travel of the clamping system pulled the skin material inn too much. Backed off on the nearest skins screws and problem solved. Later added loctite but I doubt those screws are even needed.
DT SRS A2 is a perfect setup for informal precision shooting IMO, my SAC .223 can regularly produce.3 MOA 5 shot groups with my hand loads. I just keep a cheat sheet tucked in the stock with all my cartridge scope zeros, put a NF 7-35 on it since you need just one scope. Couldn’t be happier for my purposes.
Impact Precision has the most pre-fits available on the shelf for thier actions. My Impact 737r S/As with shouldered pre-fits are the most accurate rifles I own in clouding GAP built customs. I put bullets through the same hole. GAP sells shouldered pre-fits for 3 different actions. 2 of thiers and Impact.
And I believe Hawkins makes the switch lug for them. Win win win?
I think you're right, also good dudes.
I just had one installed, need to trim a chassis slightly to get the action in thanks to the trigger hanger.
This is how it ended up. Easy to swap out. Still need to get to the range and am using a T2 reticle to assist with secondary barrels.
I have another two lugs turning up soon and will probably put one onto the cadex barrelled action (and set it up as a permanent night gun). It's tempting to pick up a second hand TRG 42 and go down this pathway with it, if possible.
Looks good @Simia Dei, I’ll be interested to see how the barrel swaps go as far as RTZ, etc.
Necro‘ing this thread because I‘m thinking of adding the wto switch lug to a new crossover hunting rifle. How’s the rtz for you? Has it worked out like you hoped? Anyone else with experience on this system?
Very old post but this is the competition light chassis? Is there an attachment method at the 12 o clock on the rail for pic rail?
