Razor Gen2 still the best scope for $1600?

littlepod

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  • Oct 16, 2012
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    Would you order the optics the same way you listed them? How do the eyebox and parallax forgiveness compare on the Tract and Leica?
    The Leica has a huge amount of parallax forgiveness. Eye box is better on the Leica as well. All in all it's a pretty nice joy to get behind it. Shot it today on the 6GT and I'm going to keep it. The open circle reticle is almost impossible to see at < 16x, but I find that the cross hairs come down to an open center anyway, that I can always open center hit things within .1 mils which is fine for any sort of speed shooting. (It is also almost $1000 more than the Tract though)

    For competitions with heavy holdovers, I personally am loving the Razor HD AMG the best, the holdover lines are nice and thick and are usable at 10x. To use holdvers in the Tract (under time/duress), I'd need to be at 15x, and 18x for the Leica.
     
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    soap11x

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    By far the best bang for the buck. 1600 is an amazing price for them. I love mine and would pay 2000 for it if that was the price. That said, I have shot many other high dollar scopes and still prefer the Razor over comparable NFs.
     
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    doc88

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    I would say it is in that price range for that game. Hunting scope? NO. Competition. plinking, long range shooting....yes. I prefer NF for the glass but for 1600 bucks the Gen 2 is well worth it.
     

    T-TurtleWang

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    The 7c is way better then the 2c.
    I like how it's easy to see the .2mils vs .5mils.
    Thanks guys bought another gen2 the other day.
     

    screaminweasil

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    What don't you like about the 7c? I love mine.
    It's a cluster...................but I'm all about the SCR Mil Steiner ret............I don't hold over and therefore HATE a tree. Unless of course it's un-obrusive like the Athlon rets...........

    Busy as hell the EBR-7C ................why couldn't they just have made .2 Mil hashes on the horizontal evenly spaced...........the added "downward" 1/2 Mil marks make it more cluttered than necessary. Either stick with 1/2 mil or 2/10 Mil windage holds............just my opinion.
     

    screaminweasil

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    Steiner SCR Mil and Vortex MSR-5I rets..............are nearly perfect for my uses. I can tolerate the Athlon APRS Mil ret.............though I'd prefer not to have the "tree". Atleast Athlon made their "Tree" sparse so you can actually spot a miss amongst all the bull..spit..........
     

    screaminweasil

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    I don't play sniper............I actually shoot, so it makes a difference to me NOT to have such a busy, worthless ret. That's why I HATE the EBR-7C
     
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    littlepod

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    Contact Scott @ Libertyoptics.............

    He's a sponsor of this very site.........that's where you'll find the 4.5-27 Razor Gen II for $1600 and the 3-18 for $1400
    Get the Leica PRS reticle. I find it perfect for your situation of not wanting a busy reticle. There's a 'tree' but it's faded out.

    IMG_20200809_123855.jpg
     
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    EastCOYotes

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    I think the razor is the best scope up to about the $2500 point where you can get a ZP5 with MR4. Yea warranty may be an issue but it’s an all around better optic. After that I don’t think anything really touches it till you get to TT/ZCO.

    if you put a KahleS 5-25, ATACR 7-35, PM2 or ZP5 in front of me I would pick the ZP5 everytime. Reticle and glass beats them all till you get to ZCO around $3600.
    Man... I’m gonna have to look through the ZP5.

    I’ve got the Kahles and to my eye it’s better than the others you’ve mentioned and I love it absolutely. However I’ve never looked through the ZP5. I need to try one of those.

    I’ll likely shoot just as shittily either way
     

    soap11x

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    I don't play sniper............I actually shoot, so it makes a difference to me NOT to have such a busy, worthless ret. That's why I HATE the EBR-7C
    You don't have to "play sniper" to enjoy that "ret." It's an amazing scope and not at all busy if you know what the "busy" actually means. Certainly, calling it worthless is a patently stupid. You did not need to write 4 posts about it back to back. One would have sufficed.
    Now my subjective opinion for the ones who care to hear it. The RBT-7Cis a phenomenal reticle and will satisfy most everyone who has a use for it.
     

    DownhillFromHere

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    I've owned gen-2 4.5-27x56 Razors for almost two years (only been into precision rifle for three years). I've only had my ZCO 5-27x56 for a couple of weeks. Here's the initial comparison, subject to update as I use the ZCO more.
    • As has been reported, the ZCO seems to have a remarkable ability to "see through" mirage, subjectively quite a bit better than the Razor. Caveat: I've only had the ZCO out to 500 meters (meters not yards). The difference may well become more significant when I get to one of the 1000-yard-or-more ranges.
    • I was surprised that the Razor has a more generous eye box than the ZCO at highest magnifications.
    • As expected, the "feel" of the ZCO is superior to that of the Razor, but "feel" is an extremely subjective thing and I certainly have no quibbles at all with the Razor.
    • While I like the 0.2-mil subtentions on the ZCO vertical reticle better than the Razor's 0.5-mil increments, I tend to favor the Razor's EBR-7C finer reticle over the ZCO MPCT2. Again, the differences are minuscule!!!!
    • I have NOT run the ZCO in a match yet. The 0.2-mil increments may become too "busy" and the wider reticle a plus when the timer beeps.
    • In terms of appearance, the ZCO has a very flat, matte-black finish more "textured" than the Razor's weird color. The matte finish is flatter and less reflective than any other scope I've seen.
    • Of course, the ZCO is lighter in weight. An anvil might feel lighter in weight than a Razor...
    Bottom line: You get a lot for your money with the gen-2 Razor, especially if you know where to shop. I am in the blessed position of having the ZCO affordable to me. This was definitely not always the case. Is the ZCO worth double the price of the Razor? At this point in my ownership of the former, I'd say no. But with that said, it's been a true pleasure getting acquainted with it and I reserve the right to update my opinion after some 1000k-yard-sessions and a match or two.
     
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    screaminweasil

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    You don't have to "play sniper" to enjoy that "ret." It's an amazing scope and not at all busy if you know what the "busy" actually means. Certainly, calling it worthless is a patently stupid. You did not need to write 4 posts about it back to back. One would have sufficed.
    Now my subjective opinion for the ones who care to hear it. The RBT-7Cis a phenomenal reticle and will satisfy most everyone who has a use for it.
    Glad you like it.
     

    screaminweasil

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    You don't have to "play sniper" to enjoy that "ret." It's an amazing scope and not at all busy if you know what the "busy" actually means. Certainly, calling it worthless is a patently stupid. You did not need to write 4 posts about it back to back. One would have sufficed.
    Now my subjective opinion for the ones who care to hear it. The RBT-7Cis a phenomenal reticle and will satisfy most everyone who has a use for it.
    How do you like the H59 compared to the Vortex EBR-7C:sick:
    Some of us don't need to read the 1/16ths on a tape measure to find the inch mark. But, that's real life.
    Enjoy a ret that covers up 3/4 of your target and surroundings........sniper on!
     

    screaminweasil

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    You don't have to "play sniper" to enjoy that "ret." It's an amazing scope and not at all busy if you know what the "busy" actually means. Certainly, calling it worthless is a patently stupid. You did not need to write 4 posts about it back to back. One would have sufficed.
    Now my subjective opinion for the ones who care to hear it. The RBT-7Cis a phenomenal reticle and will satisfy most everyone who has a use for it.
    So, knowing what the "busy" actually means, makes something not at all busy. Sweet man, I'll have to figure out these busy rets. You have any links to enlighten me. The EBR-7c must be the only ret you have used, otherwise you wouldn't defend it. It's busy, so is the Horus............you like it. I get it. I don't like it and was asked why..........you weren't asked why you liked it but thanks for sharing(y)
     

    littlepod

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    That looks like a ton of CA. Though I do like the brightness.
    CA was due to the phone lens through the scope lens. I triple checked with my eyes through the scope and there was no visible CA. Leica is beautiful through the eyes.
     

    ntrinsik

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    CA was due to the phone lens through the scope lens. I triple checked with my eyes through the scope and there was no visible CA. Leica is beautiful through the eyes.
    Good to know. I need to look through one someday.
     

    padom

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    I have Razor GenII's and multiple Athlon Cronus BTR's.... I have to say, I use my Cronus BTR's more. Glass is equal, both are Japanese, 13oz lighter, tracks perfect, i love and prefer the APRS1 reticle, and Athlon's CS is excellent. I heard Athlon CS was great, but never used it. I used it 2 weeks ago. Called, told them I dropped the rifle, which landed on the side of the sunshade. It smashed the sun shade some into an oval shape, and it wouldnt screw off. I did shoot it and it held zero after the hard drop on concrete. They said no problem, its covered under their Athlon Lifetime Warranty. Said they will remove the sunshade, check for damage, if its all OK they will put put it in their shaker test machine, and then do zero and box tests. They said if it was damaged they will give me a new one. I mailed it off, it came back 4 days later with a certificate showing it passed all tests, the old sun shade was removed, a brand new one was in the box and all is well.

    I have zero complaints or issues. Can save a good bit of money depending on reticle. Give Doug a call at Cameraland
     
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    screaminweasil

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    I have Razor GenII's and multiple Athlon Cronus BTR's.... I have to say, I use my Cronus BTR's more. Glass is equal, both are Japanese, 13oz lighter, tracks perfect, i love and prefer the APRS1 reticle, and Athlon's CS is excellent. I heard Athlon CS was great, but never used it. I used it 2 weeks ago. Called, told them I dropped the rifle, which landed on the side of the sunshade. It smashed the sun shade some into an oval shape, and it wouldnt screw off. I did shoot it and it held zero after the hard drop on concrete. They said no problem, its covered under their Athlon Lifetime Warranty. Said they will remove the sunshade, check for damage, if its all OK they will put put it in their shaker test machine, and then do zero and box tests. I mailed it off, it came back 4 days later with a certificate showing it passed all tests, the old sun shade was removed, a brand new one was in the box and all is well.

    I have zero complaints or issues. Can save a good bit of money depending on reticle. Give Doug a call at Cameraland
    Awesome to hear!! My 2nd Cronus BTR is set to arrive on Monday. The Cameraland deal is most excellent. I have an Ares ETR with the APRS1 "dot" reticle and my Cronus BTR scopes have the APRS "floating cross". I actually prefer the APRS just due to being able to see the cross a bit better than the dot on magnifications under 16x. Both are excellent reticles though. I'm using the ETR on a .17 Fireball Dakota Varminter and for that use, I prefer the dot. My Cronus BTR scopes are more universal in there intended use, where lower mag ranges will be commonly used, so I prefer the cross APRS in them.
     

    Kyley808

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    Awesome to hear!! My 2nd Cronus BTR is set to arrive on Monday. The Cameraland deal is most excellent. I have an Ares ETR with the APRS1 "dot" reticle and my Cronus BTR scopes have the APRS "floating cross". I actually prefer the APRS just due to being able to see the cross a bit better than the dot on magnifications under 16x. Both are excellent reticles though. I'm using the ETR on a .17 Fireball Dakota Varminter and for that use, I prefer the dot. My Cronus BTR scopes are more universal in there intended use, where lower mag ranges will be commonly used, so I prefer the cross APRS in them.
    can you tell me which one has a better eyebox pls
     

    T-TurtleWang

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    can you tell me which one has a better eyebox pls
    I've got the gen2, cronus and etr. The gen2 is the easiest to get behind and pick up quickly. I prefer it to the cronus and etr. All three are great scopes but the gen 2 is just a little nicer imo.
     

    screaminweasil

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    can you tell me which one has a better eyebox pls
    Both the Ares ETR and Cronus BTR seem pretty forgiving to me. Cronus BTR "feels" more quality and "looks" more quality in all regards. Eye box on both is NOT finicky, with Cronus being a little more forgiving, though a non issue for either. Field of view in both are great without any sort of large "vingette" or black ring/tunneling around the image.

    Parallax adjustment, Turret Feel, etc.............all go to the Cronus, it's also got better/more contrast ("3D" effect). The resolution/clarity in the particular Ares ETR I have is unbelievable though, it's prescription must be taylored to less contrast, more resolution. It has the best resolution of anything I've looked at, out to 300 yards, maybe mine is exceptional? Never had more than this one.

    At distance is where you will really appreciate the Cronus BTR glass. However, if you didn't have them side by side viewing the same things.........the difference in glass out to 500 yards is miniscule. 500 to a mile and the Cronus EASILY bests the Ares ETR.

    Some guys like the Turrets on the Ares ETR more than the Cronus BTR. I personally feel the opposite, with the Ares more prone to skipping a click due to how "clicky" they are...........also, unnecessarily loud. The Cronus BTR for my personal uses and EYES..............is easily the best scope for $1299 and worth the upcharge compared to the Ares ETR.

    Hope that helps
     
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    Kyley808

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    Both the Ares ETR and Cronus BTR seem pretty forgiving to me. Cronus BTR "feels" more quality and "looks" more quality in all regards. Eye box on both is NOT finicky, with Cronus being a little more forgiving, though a non issue for either. Field of view in both are great without any sort of large "vingette" or black ring/tunneling around the image.

    Parallax adjustment, Turret Feel, etc.............all go to the Cronus, it's also got better/more contrast ("3D" effect). The resolution/clarity in the particular Ares ETR I have is unbelievable though, it's prescription must be taylored to less contrast, more resolution. It has the best resolution of anything I've looked at, out to 300 yards, maybe mine is exceptional? Never had more than this one.

    At distance is where you will really appreciate the Cronus BTR glass. However, if you didn't have them side by side viewing the same things.........the difference in glass out to 500 yards is miniscule. 500 to a mile and the Cronus EASILY bests the Ares ETR.

    Some guys like the Turrets on the Ares ETR more than the Cronus BTR. I personally feel the opposite, with the Ares more prone to skipping a click due to how "clicky" they are...........also, unnecessarily loud. The Cronus BTR for my personal uses and EYES..............is easily the best scope for $1299 and worth the upcharge compared to the Ares ETR.

    Hope that helps
    thanks for the replay it held sooo much
     
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