Gunsmithing re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

[HispanicPanic]

Few questions for the experienced folk out there. Many places offer 'regular' grade and 'match' grade type barrels. Honestly, what is the diference? If both have 1 inch diameter stainless barrels, is it just a marketing term?

Also, have any experienced "match" type shooters ever specified custom groove diameters?? If so, what have they chosen for their specific bullet size??

The barrel i have has a nominal diameter of .300, .314 groove diameter, while firing a .312 inch bullet (7,62x54r). I know a .308 has a groove diameter of .309, but i've seen some barrels for specific rounds having a groove diameter equal to bullet diameter, and sometimes less.

Basically, what should i choose for my rifle? I'd be building a gun based on the mosin nagant receiver/action & i'm looking to stick to 7.62x54r.

 

[oosickness]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HispanicPanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Few questions for the experienced folk out there. Many places offer 'regular' grade and 'match' grade type barrels. Honestly, what is the diference? If both have 1 inch diameter stainless barrels, is it just a marketing term?

Also, have any experienced "match" type shooters ever specified custom groove diameters?? If so, what have they chosen for their specific bullet size??

The barrel i have has a nominal diameter of .300, .314 groove diameter, while firing a .312 inch bullet (7,62x54r). I know a .308 has a groove diameter of .309, but i've seen some barrels for specific rounds having a groove diameter equal to bullet diameter, and sometimes less.

Basically, what should i choose for my rifle? I'd be building a gun based on the mosin nagant receiver/action & i'm looking to stick to 7.62x54r. </div></div>

In my very limited experience, "match grade" and "regular grad" have to do with the "match being hand lapped to smooth everthing up so its nice and shiny

I dont have any experience in tight bore barrels, we can wait for the experts to come along and smooth it out

 

[boshine]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

Ask the barrel maker or the smith who is doing the work. Usually a "match" barrel" is hand lapped & has more attention making it. Should be damn near perfect. A regular barrel, if made by a top maker, some times shoot just as good.
Still dont know what a "bull" barrel is. Is there a cow or calf barrel?

 

[CaptLink]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

A match grade barrel often times has a straighter bore as well as being more consistent in bore diameter. Hand lapping is a way of making a bore size more even end to end and to remove tooling marks A .312 grove by 10 twist is nominal for the 7.62x54R I prefer a 5 groove in all my barrels if I have a choice.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

Why do you preffer 5 grooves over 4? And why 10 twist over 9.5 or 12:1 in other rifles chambered for the same cartridge? I'll mainly be shooting surplus 147gr ammo but i think the only match ammo available in 7.62x54r is 174 gr.

There are some Finish made rifles with a groove of .310 & .3095. With the 54r bullets being slightly overbore, does it really provide much of an issue? What benefit, if any, can be had by having groove diameters slightly tighter than the bullet diameter?

 

[Jim See]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

Ideally you would want the groove dia to match the bullet dia + or - .0005"

Your shooting surplus ammo on a military action? I wouldn't invest in a Match grade barrel, your ammo will never live up to the tube. Buy the cheapest unlapped button tube you can get. It would still be capable of better accuracy than what your ammo will do.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

Try Green Mountain Barrel company. They may have just what you are looking for.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Casselton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try Green Mountain Barrel company. They may have just what you are looking for. </div></div>

that's exactly the company i was looking at. I guess i'll get one of their .308 barrels and have it machined out to fit the 7.62x54r.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ideally you would want the groove dia to match the bullet dia + or - .0005"

Your shooting surplus ammo on a military action? I wouldn't invest in a Match grade barrel, your ammo will never live up to the tube. Buy the cheapest unlapped button tube you can get. It would still be capable of better accuracy than what your ammo will do.</div></div>

Whats bad about using an old military action? As long as everything mates correctly, should it matter?

Have any suggestions on some cheap unlapped button heavy barrels??

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HispanicPanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ideally you would want the groove dia to match the bullet dia + or - .0005"

Your shooting surplus ammo on a military action? I wouldn't invest in a Match grade barrel, your ammo will never live up to the tube. Buy the cheapest unlapped button tube you can get. It would still be capable of better accuracy than what your ammo will do.</div></div>

Whats bad about using an old military action? As long as everything mates correctly, should it matter?

Have any suggestions on some cheap unlapped button heavy barrels?? </div></div>

I believe Jim was questioning your choice of ammo, not the action.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HispanicPanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats bad about using an old military action? As long as everything mates correctly, should it matter?</div></div>

If you are shooting surplus ammo, there's nothing bad.
The ammo will be the weak link in the "precision" chain.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

Thx for clarifying it. Yeah the reason for choosing the action is its the cheapest i know of in a long range capable caliber, also the ammo is the cheapest in existence next to 9mm and surplus 5.45.

Proper accuracy can never be obtained apparently from anything manufactured, even "match" stuff. So eventually when i get into reloading, I can engineer myself an extraordinarily accurate round. Also the surplus stuff Isn't bad at all, it just tends to be inconsistent if you fire a large enough group.

Basically trying to build a rifle with match grade capability for as dirt cheap as possible. The 54r round makes marksmanship practice cheap.

So basically looking at it this way....

Mosin nagant receiver action, bolt, & trigger assembly: $40

Off the shelf bull barrel, fitted spaced & properly grooved: $150-200.

Aftermarket stock made for mosin action, modified for barrel: $150

Thats a match capable $400 rifle. Plenty of easy DIY trigger jobs for the mosin to get a solid 2-3 lb pull. Obviously not including optics as it can go either way. And its only $160 for 880 rds of practice!

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

sometimes i quote myself







"oh for fucks sakes"

 

[prekarious]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

Let us know how that works out for ya

 

[HispanicPanic]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

i don't get it

 

[pupdawg]

Re: re barreling w/ a custom bull barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HispanicPanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Proper accuracy can never be obtained apparently from anything manufactured, even "match" stuff.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I disagree. There are plenty accurate rifles that are manufactured like REMINGTON, SAVAGE, SAKO, etc. that shoot very well out of the box.</span>

So eventually when i get into reloading, I can engineer myself an extraordinarily accurate round.

<span style="color: #FF0000">You can sit at your reloading bench all year making 1/4 MOA capable handloads and shoot it through a 2MOA capable rifle and guess what you'll get on target? 2 MOA.</span>

Also the surplus stuff Isn't bad at all, it just tends to be inconsistent if you fire a large enough group.

<span style="color: #FF0000">This doesn't make sense at all. Inconsistent ammo is inconsistent ammo, large group small group it doesn't matter.</span>

Basically trying to build a rifle with match grade capability for as dirt cheap as possible.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I would buy a Remington 700 or a Savage and handload 308 winchester. You're building a "capable" rifle which is not close to "Match capable". No one at any matches I know of even shows up with mosin receivers, unless of course they're ALL shooting mosins.</span>

The 54r round makes marksmanship practice cheap.

<span style="color: #FF0000">NO. 22lr round makes marksmaship practice cheap.</span>

So basically looking at it this way....

Mosin nagant receiver action, bolt, & trigger assembly: $40

Off the shelf bull barrel, fitted spaced & properly grooved: $150-200.

Aftermarket stock made for mosin action, modified for barrel: $150

Thats a match capable $400 rifle. Plenty of easy DIY trigger jobs for the mosin to get a solid 2-3 lb pull. Obviously not including optics as it can go either way. And its only $160 for 880 rds of practice!

<span style="color: #FF0000">I admire you for trying something different, but lets be honest, you don't really expect to emerge with a "match capable" rifle for $400 do you? Take that price and save your money and when you get $800 you can buy a Remington or for a little less a savage. Those will be a lot more "match capable" than your mosin. I don't want to crush dreams but I don't want to see futile attempts at rationalization either. Just buy a Remington or savage.</span>

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