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Real or Fake? Hornady pleading w employees to vax?

IIRC, the government contract mandate does exist even if the OSHA rule does not. I think Hornady is covered under the gov contract.

As of Sep. 30th the government published

FAR 52.223-99.​


The FAR is the Federal Acquisition Regulations and governs federal contracts. The clause referenced above is the Covid regulations. I work for a government contractor, and over the last couple weeks we have seen funding mods incorporate this clause. Thus, the enforcement on government contractors has already started.

The potential OSHA regulation is the method the government is going to use to enforce the COVID mandate on companies of 100 people or more. The OSHA regulation has not been published yet.

Two separate enforcement mechanisms.
 
Yes they allow for changes. It always states that the changes will be negotiated at the time.

I have contracts on file. I am guessing you don't.
 
That breach of contract works both ways. When the terms of the contracts (pre-covid) were initially agreed on, mandatory vax was not a requirement.

Not when working with the government. They can add unilateral terms to the contract, and if you don't accept them then you don't get the money to perform.
 
Yes they allow for changes. It always states that the changes will be negotiated at the time.

I have contracts on file. I am guessing you don't.
I have never done any work with the government. I am just saying that in my experience every single contract is different, and often there are "renegotiation" points that really are one way outs with penalty. I just wouldn't be so quick to assume what was in a contract I hadn't seen. In this case it could be as simple as the stipulation that the contractor has to abide by any future federal law or rule.
 
Even the mandate is not real. Show me any official documentation that has been issued that would apply.

I was going to say the same thing

There's a long way from Biden's mouth to an OSHA (or whatever other alphabet agency) regulation that is enforceable.
 
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Every manufacturer could simply say, "Yeah, I appreciate your order, you are on a waiting list, we have to fulfill civilian demand first." Or is that too simple?
It is too simple. Government almost never spot buys. But even when they do, their orders almost always have DPAS priority codes and some of those codes force you to prioritize .gov order over anything/anyone else. Those DPAS codes (like all other contract terms) get flowed down the supply chain all the way down.

If you don't want to deal with fed.gov don't accept any purchase orders with DPAS codes on them.
 
So what's going to happen when the military runs out of ammo because all the employees quit?
Won’t matter without soldiers left to shoot it when they fire them all too.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if they push the date into 2022 at the last minute. Roll out the therapeutics and claim the mandate is no longer needed. They'll claim they're following the science. They'll continue to recommend the vaccines first. At this point there would be no political cost to that scenario.
 
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Hi,

Just FWIW...I can have ammunition manufacturing cells delivered to your facility in 10 weeks. The cells would be setup for 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 338LM and can produce 15 millions rounds of each per year running 2 shifts a day for 4 days a week.

We can revise what exact manufacturing equipment you want to have redundancy with in order to get final price but rough estimate is 20million USD delivered and setup.

Someone could setup the first "No Government Contracts Wanted" ammunition company in the world since lots of you all think it is just so simple.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
Wouldn't surprise me if they push the date into 2022 at the last minute. Roll out the therapeutics and claim the mandate is no longer needed. They'll claim they're following the science. They'll continue to recommend the vaccines first. At this point there would be no political cost to that scenario.
Kind of my thoughts on it all as well. They know they can’t do it. But they hang it out there just long enough that people comply then they pull and pretend like it never happened.
 
Hi,

Just FWIW...I can have ammunition manufacturing cells delivered to your facility in 10 weeks. The cells would be setup for 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 338LM and can produce 15 millions rounds of each per year running 2 shifts a day for 4 days a week.

We can revise what exact manufacturing equipment you want to have redundancy with in order to get final price but rough estimate is 20million USD delivered and setup.

Someone could setup the first "No Government Contracts Wanted" ammunition company in the world since lots of you all think it is just so simple.

Sincerely,
Theis
Do you offer a veteran discount?
 
This is an evil illegitimate government we are talking about. If you tried anything like this, they would strongarm your suppliers to withhold primers and powder and utilize their MSM and social media goons to spread false lies to smear you.
 
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This is an evil illegitimate government we are talking about. If you tried anything like this, they would strongarm your suppliers to withhold primers and powder and utilize their MSM and social media goons to spread false lies to smear you.
Case and point

AF40E540-AF4A-4679-9796-E20812EB2E0B.jpeg


A9E3C3AA-F8C6-49EC-9629-36D485A02A29.jpeg
 
Hi,

Just FWIW...I can have ammunition manufacturing cells delivered to your facility in 10 weeks. The cells would be setup for 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 338LM and can produce 15 millions rounds of each per year running 2 shifts a day for 4 days a week.

We can revise what exact manufacturing equipment you want to have redundancy with in order to get final price but rough estimate is 20million USD delivered and setup.

Someone could setup the first "No Government Contracts Wanted" ammunition company in the world since lots of you all think it is just so simple.

Sincerely,
Theis
How much room do I need
 
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Note that many contracts are just that, and already in place. Defaulting on the contract terms is going to be a problem, and that problem may very well lead to closing the doors. I don't see how having ammo companies folding is helpful in any way.

Lots of people here who have no skin in the game, no clue how the business works, think the SC should somehow just invalidate an OSHA rule, would not know Jacobson vs. Mass. if it hit them on the head and have no idea how a vaccine actually works seem to be pissed off at a company that may really have no choices but follow the law or close the shop.

Now should this mandate actually exist? Most certainly not, the threat from Covid is nowhere near a reasonable threshold where the State should be making it any kind of requirement for anything at all. Offer it up for free, sure. Promote it in any way you like, sure. Penalize people who don't get it? That's insanity. Of course a good number of inhabitants of the US seem to be functionally illiterate and/or insane, so I guess I should not be surprised. I mean AOC got elected, and how is that possible if anyone heard her say anything? Uncle Joe serves up word salad at every press conference and instead of being in a elder care facility he's President? Wonko the Sane may have a point.

If you currently have .GOV contracts in place, well, you are kind of stuck. If on the other hand you are bidding, or open contracts are out there, realize what you are committing to when you bid and get one. The pushback needs to be contractors banding together and denying any new contract work until the mandate is lifted. That's much easier to say than to do, as many of those companies live off those contracts and competition to get them is tough. Absent that (which is pretty much never going to happen) our representative government needs to be so swamped by public complaints that they have no choice but to reverse policy.

If enough people just say no, and enough products go into mass shortage mode, delivery companies can't deliver what product actually exists and it starts to look like the old Soviet Union bread lines at the supermarket, then you might get some .GOV types to see the error of their ways. Maybe. I don't hold out much hope for sane policy given the way they talk and behave.

Of course I've got food, water. ammo and a several mile perimeter. I'm pretty much past caring what the masses do. I expect the dolphins to depart shortly.

Why do these contracts get to be changed by .gov.

Was there a clause that .gov gets to choose employees health care decisions by mandate?

Time to starve the Leviathan.

Sell nothing to any out of control .gov.
 
It's worth noting that most people in this forum come to this from the view that the vaccine is somehow toxic, and that no doubt influences their view of anybody asking anybody else to get vaccinated. They see it as asking that person to put themself in mortal danger.

I imagine that Steve Hornady, like most people outside this forum, believes (I think rightfully) that the vaccine is not only safe, but effective, and he doesn't see asking people to get vaccinated as asking them to possibly do great harm to themselves. It is a completely different perspective.

This is on top of everything that Cory mentions above, the long, going back to George Washington, history of vaccine mandates, the legal foundation for it etc, and, of course, the moral responsibility of having a contract. I also don't think the mandate is good, but certainly it is more defensible for government contracts than for general business, and I don't imagine Steve Hornady loves it either, but reality also exists, and, going back to perceptions of the vaccine, it is very different to comply with a mandate you see as deadly, and to comply with a mandate you see as ill advised.

Oh God this fuckstain again.......

1905 and Washington are poor precedents for this mandate.

If 1905 is precedent fine me $200 and than fuck off.

Washington was fighting the same 30% mortality disease as 1905. Mission is the only thing in the milititary. Washington needed that 1/3 of his Army that was always down to disease. Not only that but he realized losing the war meant 100% of his Army would hang on British rope.

I don't think the vaccine is a death drug.

I do think it increases my risk of a bad outcome by exactly 100%.

Why would I want to take it?
 
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Hi,

Just FWIW...I can have ammunition manufacturing cells delivered to your facility in 10 weeks. The cells would be setup for 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 338LM and can produce 15 millions rounds of each per year running 2 shifts a day for 4 days a week.

We can revise what exact manufacturing equipment you want to have redundancy with in order to get final price but rough estimate is 20million USD delivered and setup.

Someone could setup the first "No Government Contracts Wanted" ammunition company in the world since lots of you all think it is just so simple.

Sincerely,
Theis
can we use our VA benefits to secure a loan for said operation...
asking for a friend...
 
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Oh God this fuckstain again.......

1905 and Washington are poor precedents for this mandate.

If 1905 is precedent fine me $200 and than fuck off.

Washington was fighting the same 30% mortality disease as 1905. Mission is the only thing in the milititary. Washington needed that 1/3 of his Army that was always down to disease. Not only that but he realized losing the war meant 100% of his Army would hang on British rope.

I don't think the vaccine is a death drug.

I do think it increases my risk of a bad outcome by exactly 100%.

Why would I want to take it?
Not to mention, Washington mandated it for the continental army before the constitution existed and before he was president. He made no such mandates after becoming number 1. It’s a horrible example.
 
Hi,

Just FWIW...I can have ammunition manufacturing cells delivered to your facility in 10 weeks. The cells would be setup for 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 338LM and can produce 15 millions rounds of each per year running 2 shifts a day for 4 days a week.

We can revise what exact manufacturing equipment you want to have redundancy with in order to get final price but rough estimate is 20million USD delivered and setup.

Someone could setup the first "No Government Contracts Wanted" ammunition company in the world since lots of you all think it is just so simple.

Sincerely,
Theis

I'll gladly repay you Tuesday, for an ammunition plant today.
 
Oh God this fuckstain again.......

1905 and Washington are poor precedents for this mandate.

If 1905 is precedent fine me $200 and than fuck off.

Washington was fighting the same 30% mortality disease as 1905. Mission is the only thing in the milititary. Washington needed that 1/3 of his Army that was always down to disease. Not only that but he realized losing the war meant 100% of his Army would hang on British rope.

I don't think the vaccine is a death drug.

I do think it increases my risk of a bad outcome by exactly 100%.

Why would I want to take it?
PPPPPT
 
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Idiots if they signed a contract that would allow experimental not vaccines to be a requirement of the company’s employees
Worse: idiots if they signed a contract that can have revisions without negotiating and approval by both parties.
 
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Yes because the circular firing squad has decided to aim at Hornady for just trying to stay in business and we got 10,000 business experts here in the pit ready to navigate govt contracts, public sentiment, govt overreach, a pandemic, and a major supply shortage.

Somewhere a liberal is laughing their ass off at this dysfunction.

Pro Tip:
Every other ammo mfg company has this issue. Troll comes in, stirs up the pit.

Mission accomplished.
Yes and no, but you bring up good points. Hornady is free to make their decisions. The workers are free to make theirs. The end consumer is also equally free to choose where to spend their money. And the government is free to attempt to enforce their will on those who choose to supply them and obtain taxpayer money for the service. It’s almost like everyone is free to tell everyone else to fuck the hell off. With the associated consequences of course.

Your point is valid - up to a point. No one here is saying Hornady ISNT free to make their choice. They are merely saying that they disagree with their choice. That’s thier right as free men. And that’s very cool. What’s equally cool is the ability of others to buy from Hornady.

what’s not cool? Limiting the freedom of free men. Which is not freedom.
 
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Hi,

Just FWIW...I can have ammunition manufacturing cells delivered to your facility in 10 weeks. The cells would be setup for 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 338LM and can produce 15 millions rounds of each per year running 2 shifts a day for 4 days a week.

We can revise what exact manufacturing equipment you want to have redundancy with in order to get final price but rough estimate is 20million USD delivered and setup.

Someone could setup the first "No Government Contracts Wanted" ammunition company in the world since lots of you all think it is just so simple.

Sincerely,
Theis
Yeah, just call up S&B and say “I’ll take 25 of those progressive bullet making machines you got in storage”.
 
Yes and no, but you bring up good points. Hornady is free to make their decisions. The workers are free to make theirs. The end consumer is also equally free to choose where to spend their money. And the government is free to attempt to enforce their will on those who choose to supply them and obtain taxpayer money for the service. It’s almost like everyone is free to tell everyone else to fuck the hell off. With the associated consequences of course.

Your point is valid - up to a point. No one here is saying Hornady ISNT free to make their choice. They are merely saying that they disagree with their choice. That’s thier right as free men. And that’s very cool. What’s equally cool is the ability of others to buy from Hornady.

what’s not cool? Limiting the freedom of free men. Which is not freedom.
Good luck finding ammo from people not affected by this.
And food
clothes
gas
electricity

Or perhaps, its not the people struggling to follow the mandate you should be angry at.

Maybe take aim at those implementing it and not those suffering
 
Good luck finding ammo from people not affected by this.
And food
clothes
gas
electricity

Or perhaps, its not the people struggling to follow the mandate you should be angry at.

Maybe take aim at those implementing it and not those suffering
I’m not angry, merely pointing out the holes in your argument about the opinions herein.
 
Note that many contracts are just that, and already in place. Defaulting on the contract terms is going to be a problem, and that problem may very well lead to closing the doors. I don't see how having ammo companies folding is helpful in any way.

Lots of people here who have no skin in the game, no clue how the business works, think the SC should somehow just invalidate an OSHA rule, would not know Jacobson vs. Mass. if it hit them on the head and have no idea how a vaccine actually works seem to be pissed off at a company that may really have no choices but follow the law or close the shop.

Now should this mandate actually exist? Most certainly not, the threat from Covid is nowhere near a reasonable threshold where the State should be making it any kind of requirement for anything at all. Offer it up for free, sure. Promote it in any way you like, sure. Penalize people who don't get it? That's insanity. Of course a good number of inhabitants of the US seem to be functionally illiterate and/or insane, so I guess I should not be surprised. I mean AOC got elected, and how is that possible if anyone heard her say anything? Uncle Joe serves up word salad at every press conference and instead of being in a elder care facility he's President? Wonko the Sane may have a point.

If you currently have .GOV contracts in place, well, you are kind of stuck. If on the other hand you are bidding, or open contracts are out there, realize what you are committing to when you bid and get one. The pushback needs to be contractors banding together and denying any new contract work until the mandate is lifted. That's much easier to say than to do, as many of those companies live off those contracts and competition to get them is tough. Absent that (which is pretty much never going to happen) our representative government needs to be so swamped by public complaints that they have no choice but to reverse policy.

If enough people just say no, and enough products go into mass shortage mode, delivery companies can't deliver what product actually exists and it starts to look like the old Soviet Union bread lines at the supermarket, then you might get some .GOV types to see the error of their ways. Maybe. I don't hold out much hope for sane policy given the way they talk and behave.

Of course I've got food, water. ammo and a several mile perimeter. I'm pretty much past caring what the masses do. I expect the dolphins to depart shortly.
Hornady is not defaulting on a contract. The Government is. Hornady just says show us the law. Here's yer bullets, and yer sign F JB.
 
Hornady is not defaulting on a contract. The Government is. Hornady just says show us the law. Here's yer bullets, and yer sign F JB.

Hi,

Finally someone must have access to the contract(s) then.
I have been waiting on someone to get the documents via the FOIA request they submitted.
Please post up the contract so others can read it.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
Just learned Hornady has changed their minds.

At least that's the scuttlebutt from Jared on the Guns&Gadgets YT channel.

Mike
Good for them. They are still Cheaper than Dirt / Prime Ammo to me, wont spend another cent w them. I have no need for melting or tumbeling projos or little bitches crying about the position they put themselves in.
 
Hornady may have dropped it "for now", but they are on a witch hunt to find who leaked the memo. Additionally, they came out with a piss-poor second memo talking about how they weren't threatening to fire anybody or anything of the sort.

This has shown me Steve Hornady's character. I have and use plenty of Hornady products, but in the future I will seek alternatives. Oh, and Fuck Joe Biden.
 
Hornady may have dropped it "for now", but they are on a witch hunt to find who leaked the memo. Additionally, they came out with a piss-poor second memo talking about how they weren't threatening to fire anybody or anything of the sort.

This has shown me Steve Hornady's character. I have and use plenty of Hornady products, but in the future I will seek alternatives. Oh, and Fuck Joe Biden.
Sounds about right....don't share our dirty laundry. It's only for you minions!
 
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Thing is none of these employers take any liability. Mine is not.

Second coworker hurt in three week period. I know both of them.

Message came out today about a co-worker that took the shot to meet the mandate. Tough kid, served in USMC....

Good morning everyone,

First of all, please keep Trooper ***** ******** in your prayers. He is a tough, athletic member of our group. ***** recently left work in an ambulance suffering from shortness of breath. Doctors diagnosed him with a blood clot in his lung, and is presently hospitalized. ***** got his second Pfizer shot two weeks ago.

Decided to “get the jab”: If you have very recently made the decision to get the jab, we strongly encourage you to get blood work done, to include a D-Dimers test to measure blood clots. We have been told that this test will reveal recent clotting within 4-7 days of a clot-causing-event. You may want to start building your own medical file in case you suffer an adverse effect. This test will help do that.
 
If you condemn for bad behavior, you should praise for good behavior.....

Last week I contacted you requesting that you reconsider your vaccine mandate.

I am a Law enforcement officer working for the ************* ***** ****** and fully expect to be let go soon with 17 years of service.

I don't think your reconsideration of your own mandate will help me in my case but it certainly makes me feel better, as an American that venerates the Constitution and our free country, to know that you have chosen a path to respect the rights of your employees.

Your courage in facing the heavy social pressure to "mandate" is appreciated.

Thank you,

Pmclaine
 
POLITICS

White House delays Covid-19 vaccine mandates for contractors​

By Maddie Bender Nov. 4, 2021


The White House is delaying its mandate for contractors to get vaccinated against Covid-19 until Jan. 4, the administration announced Thursday, as it rolled out more details about its sweeping vaccination mandates.

Contractors previously had until Dec. 8 to get vaccinated, per a September executive order from the White House. They now have until Jan. 4, as do health workers at hospitals and facilities that participate in Medicare and Medicaid.

Under a separate policy, companies with 100 or more employees will also have until Jan. 4 to mandate full vaccinations for their workers or offer a plan for weekly testing. But by Dec. 5, they must require unvaccinated workers to wear masks and undergo weekly testing.


Just a matter of time.
 
POLITICS

White House delays Covid-19 vaccine mandates for contractors​

By Maddie Bender Nov. 4, 2021


The White House is delaying its mandate for contractors to get vaccinated against Covid-19 until Jan. 4, the administration announced Thursday, as it rolled out more details about its sweeping vaccination mandates.

Contractors previously had until Dec. 8 to get vaccinated, per a September executive order from the White House. They now have until Jan. 4, as do health workers at hospitals and facilities that participate in Medicare and Medicaid.

Under a separate policy, companies with 100 or more employees will also have until Jan. 4 to mandate full vaccinations for their workers or offer a plan for weekly testing. But by Dec. 5, they must require unvaccinated workers to wear masks and undergo weekly testing.


Just a matter of time.

It’s like they didn’t know how dumb they were until the tax slaves in VA turned on them.

Hornady can STILL eat a bag of dicks
 
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I have never done any work with the government. I am just saying that in my experience every single contract is different, and often there are "renegotiation" points that really are one way outs with penalty. I just wouldn't be so quick to assume what was in a contract I hadn't seen. In this case it could be as simple as the stipulation that the contractor has to abide by any future federal law or rule.
A contract has to have a lawful purpose anyway.
 
The entire firearms industry could tell the WH to suck it.

What would the WH do? Go hire chinese or russian firms?

I feel sorry for these guys who bent the knee when they show up at an event or shot show. Then there is the market. The people they lose need jobs and are aching for payback as are the buyers.

There a lot of smaller manufactures who can step up with CNC tech and eat the lunch of the big guys. They just need a good bank and seasoned execs.
 
OSHA is doing this under an 'Emergency Authorization' to circumnavigate the rules and congress. Delaying this proves it is not an emergency, and it is an illegal and unconstitutional action. When do the traitors and lawless get charged for what they do in and to this country?
 
OSHA is doing this under an 'Emergency Authorization' to circumnavigate the rules and congress. Delaying this proves it is not an emergency, and it is an illegal and unconstitutional action. When do the traitors and lawless get charged for what they do in and to this country?

We went from some comment about an administrative rule to illegal and then unconstitutional?

I really wonder about the mental health of people whose hill they want to die on is a vaccine. Why don't you call just tell me on the doll where the little vaccine hurt you?
 
I'm sure Hornady has a .gov contract. If they don't want to lose the contract, they have to comply with the Fed rule.
It sucks, but that's how the feds role, they threaten you with losing money.
So you set up a subsidiary company, assign machines and a building for making.gov ammo to the subsidiary company. And you allow any of your employees who are voluntarily vaxed to move over to the subsidiary company In a lateral transfer that maintains their seniority pay and benefits. Problem fucking solved. Let the people making components for civilians have a choice. If the contract can’t move to a subsidiary company, you just do the opposite and move people who prefer their freedom to a subsidiary making components for the civilian market.

These people (more likely their Commie minions in HR and Legal depts. — and they are all commies in those overhead functions) are so wrapped around the axle of forcing compliance that they don’t even think about how you can just work around it.

How about five companies with 99 employees each? Owned by a holding company with 3 employees?

Fuck off mandate. Problem solved.

Sirhr