I spent the better part of last night prepping a few hundred 7.62x51 and 5.56 mil cases, which included trimming, reaming flash holes, and uniforming the primer pockets. Then I got to thinking. Is it really worth it, or should I be saving my efforts for commercial brass? I mean, I can always use the military brass for blasting ammo, but what are the realistic accuracy expectations I can have with military brass?
Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
- Thread starter Jason280
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Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
I believe the question you should be asking is: Am I and my rifle(s) capable of shooting match grade ammutition? I'm not intentionally cutting you down. But instead asking the question how good are you? If your idea of accuracy is banging a 12" X 18" steel plate at 100 yards, you're wasting your time. If you're REPEATABLY shooting 10 shot groups on paper at 600 yards and can cover them all with your hand, then yes you might see some improvement over the standard brass as it is made.
A lot of people don't understand why benchrest or long range shooters take all the pains with their brass. Each thing you do to improve your brass / powder charge / completed round is going to have a very small effect on that particular shot. But the very small effects do add up.
Now your intrepretation of the yardage, target and weather (mostly wind and sunlight) is a different matter all together. These things will improve your skills the more you are exposed to them while shooting under the circumstances mentioned above. There is NO book or article that will help your groups / scores more than trigger time with the best rifle and best ammo that you can make. But an experienced coach will also add a lot to your final scores. Go to the range to try and better your scores. Make notes and try to learn something. Popping primers just to be doing that isn't going to help your accuracy in general.
Edited to add: Uniformity and consistancy are the keys to being accurate and having accurate ammo.
Good luck.
I believe the question you should be asking is: Am I and my rifle(s) capable of shooting match grade ammutition? I'm not intentionally cutting you down. But instead asking the question how good are you? If your idea of accuracy is banging a 12" X 18" steel plate at 100 yards, you're wasting your time. If you're REPEATABLY shooting 10 shot groups on paper at 600 yards and can cover them all with your hand, then yes you might see some improvement over the standard brass as it is made.
A lot of people don't understand why benchrest or long range shooters take all the pains with their brass. Each thing you do to improve your brass / powder charge / completed round is going to have a very small effect on that particular shot. But the very small effects do add up.
Now your intrepretation of the yardage, target and weather (mostly wind and sunlight) is a different matter all together. These things will improve your skills the more you are exposed to them while shooting under the circumstances mentioned above. There is NO book or article that will help your groups / scores more than trigger time with the best rifle and best ammo that you can make. But an experienced coach will also add a lot to your final scores. Go to the range to try and better your scores. Make notes and try to learn something. Popping primers just to be doing that isn't going to help your accuracy in general.
Edited to add: Uniformity and consistancy are the keys to being accurate and having accurate ammo.
Good luck.
Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
I have never reloaded anything but LC brass for my AR15. By the time I was reloading it, it had been fired in the field then reloaded at Black Hills and fired in my rifle.
Now, my AR15 rifle is "not all that accurate", shooting mil surplus (guatemalan) into 2.1-2.3 MoA 10-shot groups. Match grade factory ammo did a little better in the 1.5-1.6 MoA range. Over a dozen tries, I was able to fine tune a match load with 69 gr SMK and Varget so that these would group into 0.8" 10-shot groups.
While this is "nothing to write home about" in AR15 accuracy, it does show what a dedicated effort all directed towards finding that one load you gun will shoot well can do. And yes, all of these cases went through complete match prep, however, I have no illusion that it was the match prep that turned the tide. It is but one step along the path.
I have never reloaded anything but LC brass for my AR15. By the time I was reloading it, it had been fired in the field then reloaded at Black Hills and fired in my rifle.
Now, my AR15 rifle is "not all that accurate", shooting mil surplus (guatemalan) into 2.1-2.3 MoA 10-shot groups. Match grade factory ammo did a little better in the 1.5-1.6 MoA range. Over a dozen tries, I was able to fine tune a match load with 69 gr SMK and Varget so that these would group into 0.8" 10-shot groups.
While this is "nothing to write home about" in AR15 accuracy, it does show what a dedicated effort all directed towards finding that one load you gun will shoot well can do. And yes, all of these cases went through complete match prep, however, I have no illusion that it was the match prep that turned the tide. It is but one step along the path.
Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spent the better part of last night prepping a few hundred 7.62x51 and 5.56 mil cases, which included trimming, reaming flash holes, and uniforming the primer pockets. Then I got to thinking. Is it really worth it, or should I be saving my efforts for commercial brass? I mean, I can always use the military brass for blasting ammo, but what are the realistic accuracy expectations I can have with military brass? </div></div>
Awhile back, I bought some of the Pat's Reloading RA-61 brass that had the primers mechanically removed, so it's virgin unfired milsurp. I've been running 200 of them to the tune of ~10 cycles, with one neck split. I load some of my target ammo with this and it's not bad. I uniformed the primer pockets, flash holes and such and the ammo loaded with these is pretty good out of my Savage 10FP rifle.
I've got some 1x Norma and 3 boxes of Lapua, as well as some FGMM brass sitting for a rainy day.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spent the better part of last night prepping a few hundred 7.62x51 and 5.56 mil cases, which included trimming, reaming flash holes, and uniforming the primer pockets. Then I got to thinking. Is it really worth it, or should I be saving my efforts for commercial brass? I mean, I can always use the military brass for blasting ammo, but what are the realistic accuracy expectations I can have with military brass? </div></div>
Awhile back, I bought some of the Pat's Reloading RA-61 brass that had the primers mechanically removed, so it's virgin unfired milsurp. I've been running 200 of them to the tune of ~10 cycles, with one neck split. I load some of my target ammo with this and it's not bad. I uniformed the primer pockets, flash holes and such and the ammo loaded with these is pretty good out of my Savage 10FP rifle.
I've got some 1x Norma and 3 boxes of Lapua, as well as some FGMM brass sitting for a rainy day.
Chris
Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spent the better part of last night prepping a few hundred 7.62x51 and 5.56 mil cases, which included trimming, reaming flash holes, and uniforming the primer pockets. Then I got to thinking. Is it really worth it, or should I be saving my efforts for commercial brass? I mean, I can always use the military brass for blasting ammo, but what are the realistic accuracy expectations I can have with military brass? </div></div>
It seems that most people get the biggest improvement in accuracy when they uniform the flash hole, vs other prep steps, at least that's what they say.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spent the better part of last night prepping a few hundred 7.62x51 and 5.56 mil cases, which included trimming, reaming flash holes, and uniforming the primer pockets. Then I got to thinking. Is it really worth it, or should I be saving my efforts for commercial brass? I mean, I can always use the military brass for blasting ammo, but what are the realistic accuracy expectations I can have with military brass? </div></div>
It seems that most people get the biggest improvement in accuracy when they uniform the flash hole, vs other prep steps, at least that's what they say.
Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
LC brass is fine. I've seen and shot plenty of groups in the 1/2-3/4" range with 5.56 and 7.62 brass. Apparently the .308 stuff can be a little thick with less case capacity, so work your load up.
LC brass is fine. I've seen and shot plenty of groups in the 1/2-3/4" range with 5.56 and 7.62 brass. Apparently the .308 stuff can be a little thick with less case capacity, so work your load up.
Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
"..what are the realistic accuracy expectations I can have with military brass?"
I know of no reason to think any cases are intrinsicly more or less accurate than others if the same prepping and selection standards are applied. The more uniform the cases are, the fewer "flyers" we'll have and the way we handle our brass can control uniformaty.
I sure cull more common cases than I do premium cases but, given the price differences, I prefer to do the work rather than paying for Lapua/Norma. I end up with a larger number of good cases for less money too.
"..what are the realistic accuracy expectations I can have with military brass?"
I know of no reason to think any cases are intrinsicly more or less accurate than others if the same prepping and selection standards are applied. The more uniform the cases are, the fewer "flyers" we'll have and the way we handle our brass can control uniformaty.
I sure cull more common cases than I do premium cases but, given the price differences, I prefer to do the work rather than paying for Lapua/Norma. I end up with a larger number of good cases for less money too.
Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
I compared accuracy and volume of cases from unfired 308 LC cases, and once fired Federal GMM cases. All cases had the primer pockets uniformed, flash holes deburred inside and outside, were trimmed, deburred outside, and inside with a VLD deburrer. There was no appreciable difference in either case content (that surprised me) or in accuracy. Reloads from either batch gave me right around .4 inch (.3 on occasion) at 100 yards.
Although I don't mix the two lots together, they both get the same charge powder, and COAL seating depth.
Maybe there wasn't any gain to my efforts, but I wanted to be certain I had eliminated as many possible negative variables as I could in my effort to gain accuracy.
I compared accuracy and volume of cases from unfired 308 LC cases, and once fired Federal GMM cases. All cases had the primer pockets uniformed, flash holes deburred inside and outside, were trimmed, deburred outside, and inside with a VLD deburrer. There was no appreciable difference in either case content (that surprised me) or in accuracy. Reloads from either batch gave me right around .4 inch (.3 on occasion) at 100 yards.
Although I don't mix the two lots together, they both get the same charge powder, and COAL seating depth.
Maybe there wasn't any gain to my efforts, but I wanted to be certain I had eliminated as many possible negative variables as I could in my effort to gain accuracy.
Re: Realistic accuracy from mil brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There was no appreciable difference in either case content (that surprised me) or in accuracy. </div></div>
What process were you using? Did you measure volume or weight? And what numbers did you get?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There was no appreciable difference in either case content (that surprised me) or in accuracy. </div></div>
What process were you using? Did you measure volume or weight? And what numbers did you get?
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