New world record set for longest sniper kill in Afghanistan - Wichita Military Affairs | Examiner.com
wondering what kind of gear these guys use for telemetry?
wondering what kind of gear these guys use for telemetry?
- Thread starter Sako man
- Start date
Well, if the round landed close the kinetic energy could have kicked up a lot of debris or rock and that could shred the fuck out of someone. Just watch Frank trying to hit out to 2000, and he's probably as seasoned as they get. So hard to say.
Kentucky Windage, no doubt...
Not what I meant... I meant the actual report seems fake not that the shot is not possible. I'm sure that shot could happen whether it be skill or luck.
Does seem suspect.
I have it on good authority there was a 10km kill...
You lob enough rounds down range with a Barrett , your bound to hit something.
This article is so 2012. Funny, I had my M82 out last night at 843 yds with some sweet Talon re-man ammo and couldn't get consistent hits worth shit. If the Barrett's long heavy trigger pull isn't good enough, at least it has a sloppy action, articulating barrel, wobbly bipod, and light weight monopod to make up for it. Throw in some mil-spec ammo, and you've got a real recipe for ELR disappointment. The reason the Barrett carries the SASR designation is it is not able to routinely hold 1 MOA. So at 2800 M groups will likely be in excess of 30" (or worse if you're using Talon re-man, lol), and probably require somewhere in the neighborhood 200 MOA of comeup ( even at 10K ASL) and probably would have been subsonic almost 1/2 its flight path. The rumor of this shot is what prompted the guys at DTA to recreate this shot with the HTI .375 CT in December 2012. And while the DTA crew had remarkable success, the difference between the .50 BMG and the .375 CT is like a '73 Caddy, to a corvette, and the M82 is more like a garbage truck and the HTI is more of a McLaren. I stand by my past observation that the M82 is great for crowd pleasing and bachelor parties, but not for real long range work.
The issue I have is (1) there was a group of taliban and (2) two marksmen simultaneously fired... taking out one taliban.
It seems every other year a record is broken in Afghanistan, which offers optimal long range shooting conditions (high altitude=less bullet resistance, hot temps=hot rounds) so it seems reasonably possible. This, however, seems like two marksmen lobbing rounds mortarman-style into a school of fish and hoping for a hit. For one, they dont even know who made the hit, if in fact there was a hit, and not debris that took the taliban out.
It seems every other year a record is broken in Afghanistan, which offers optimal long range shooting conditions (high altitude=less bullet resistance, hot temps=hot rounds) so it seems reasonably possible. This, however, seems like two marksmen lobbing rounds mortarman-style into a school of fish and hoping for a hit. For one, they dont even know who made the hit, if in fact there was a hit, and not debris that took the taliban out.
I was in was in Uruzgan during most of 2012 and worked a bit with the snipers from 2nd Commando. I've in fact worked with the two dudes to which this acticle pertains. While I wasn't there for that particular shot I have witnessed them in action and I have no doubt about the events as I have also read the sitreps regarding the action. The thing you need to keep in mind is these dudes not only have the skills but their mission set have them the acesse and placement to regularly make long shots like this on a near weekly base. We actually had a bit of an informal tally going, the Aussie would get a long one then we would get a longer one but frankly these dudes had plenty of freedom of movement and it was only a matter of time before they would be able to connect big, while our AO was rather restrictive.
Also a lot of folks don't give the Barrett much credit because they have little clue what a good shooter who knows that gun can do. Sure it's no .375 but with Mk211 raining at around 1.25 MOA the Barrett may surprise you as a ELR platform. While You won't win any Bench rest comps with it or be able to post pics of tiny bug hole groups on snipers hide, as a people getter goes it's pretty sweet.
Also a lot of folks don't give the Barrett much credit because they have little clue what a good shooter who knows that gun can do. Sure it's no .375 but with Mk211 raining at around 1.25 MOA the Barrett may surprise you as a ELR platform. While You won't win any Bench rest comps with it or be able to post pics of tiny bug hole groups on snipers hide, as a people getter goes it's pretty sweet.
No offense but you're mentality in the stereotypical one of people who don't really understand the Barrett and what it is capable of. I don't really hold it against you because I was once a member of that group and the vast majority go my peers are also still in that group.
While you are particular referring to the M82 almost everyone (at least from what I've seen) it running the M107 now, similar but the same. Either way I'll address the some of the issues you have posted
1. Ammo: I'm not sure about the quality of "Talon" remanufactured but it sounds like the worst. The Barrett it a picky eater, if you feed it shit ammo then it's going tell you to eat a big o'l bag of baby sized dicks. Mk211 is the only thing I've found that I know the 107 will preform with (about 1.2-1.5 MOA depending on the lot) but good luck finding that. Bottom don't feed it shit if you are expecting it to preform.
2. Trigger pull: I'll agree with you there. No shit I just had a nightmare last week about trying to shoot bad guys with that super long creep trigger pull, I got them in the end but woke up in a cold sweat. Yeah it's no Jewell but it's actually pretty decent compared to a stock M4.
3. Articulating barrel/action: Yes, surly winner of the worse design for a precession weapon...ever. That said I could probably write a book on how to shoot a Barrett but I have neither the time or energy to do that tonight. Simply put to shoot a Barrett to its full capabilities an arcane art but it can be done.
4. Bipod/monopod: I've never really had much to complain about other that don't ever take that sucker off and expect to be able to re assemble it in the hide at 0200 in the pitch black of night. As for the monopod I don't know of anybody who uses it, a regular old sand sock does wonders. The monopod is just extra weight in my opinion and counter intuitive to long range shooting.
5. Hot barrels: although you didn't talk about I'll bring it up. The barrel on the Barrett is relatively thin and heats up fast and general after 10-15 rounds of sustained fire will start to sting round vertical...badly...like 3-4 MOA bad.
So when you sit down behind the Barrett one needs to keep these in mind, because just one and or any combo of the other the previously things I just talked about will blend into a perfect storm of "the Barrett in the worst piece of shit gun ever".
Thanks for your insight Ro, I was being tongue-in-cheek about the Talon ammo-yup its super-shit. Not having any spare Mk 211 around...lol...ive shot a a bit of LC XM33 which seems to hold about 2moa when everything is bagged in tight, and done a little better with surplus AP. But even with MK211, groups are probably going to be in excess of 30" at 2800M, and around 200 moa of drop.
I've also got no reservations about the M82/M107 being used for what it was intended -HTI with payload delivery and rapid followup. But as far as it being used in a AP role at 3k yds...it seems a little far fetched, even by the masters of long range shooting, the Australians, lol. But what say you? Oh, and if you find some 211 laying around, I'll be glad to take it off your hands!
Hey Ro, ever since your earlier post I've had a couple of questions, maybe you can help me out.
While I may not, "really understand the Barrett and what it is capable of", thanks for not holding it against me. From what you say about the Barrett being a "picky eater" and that "MK211 is the only thing I've found that I know the 107 will preform (perform right?) with (about 1.2-1.5MOA)", wouldn't that support MY position that a minimum group size of 30" of vertical dispersion, let alone any horizontal deflection, would make a successful shot at 3080 yds against a AP target pretty unlikely?
I'm glad we agree that the trigger on the Barrett is shit. I was saddened to learn though that the shitty-ness of the trigger was causing you nightmares. It was however a relief to learn that even when you were sleeping you, "got them in the end". Whew! For the record though, speaking for my M82, and my M4gery, the Barrett's trigger is NOT "pretty decent" comparatively, it is still a piece of shit. Your nocturnal emissions not withstanding.
Again, I'm glad that we seem to agree that the articulating barrel, and action of the M82 are some of its limiting factors in its accuracy. However, I stick by the distinction that the M82 is NOT a "precession weapon" (precision, right?), and that is why it carries the SASR designation. I'd love to read your book on "how to shoot a Barrett" and I'll be sure to buy it if you do choose to write it later tonight. Until then, I'm going to fall back on my training on the M82, conducted by the guy who did write the book on Barretts, for Barrett, Jon Weiler. And while Jon never referred to effectively employing the Barrett as an "arcane art" as you suggest, he did talk extensively about the strengths (power, capacity, rapid follow up shots, and payload ammunition) and the weaknesses (size, weight, lack of precision, etc.) of the system so that the user could understand its limitations.
Fortunately for me, I've never had to, "re assemble it (the bipod) in the hide at 0200 in the pitch black of night." However, in my opinion, the lack of a tensioning mechanism on the bipod (similar to a pod-lock, say) is a distinct disadvantage in stabilizing the rifle. Even with all its weaknesses though, I've never thought that "the Barrett in the worst piece of shit gun ever", it's just different, and optimized for a different use than most others.
I was still hoping to hear your insights on the reality of the rumored shots by the Australians, especially as it relates to minimum group size given the best ammo/gun/met/env conditions vs. the target size at 3K+ yds. Also, in your experience, what's the probability of making any shot when dialing/holding 2.5-3 DEGREES of elevation, having a subsonic flight of somewhere around 20 percent of the total distance, and a 6 second flight time? Lastly, I was hoping you could settle a debate I was having with my friend Gecko45, what color IS the boathouse at Hereford? Thanks, Walt
Well Walt you are about to tap into one of my main passion of my professional life. There is a whole lot to look at when considering the probability of this shot as you might have already guessed, must of the folks in the ELR forum have played the game long enough to know how difficult this shot is. I've decided to make this a case study for my own personal agenda of using later this year in the development of an ELR/HTI course we've been trying to get off the ground, I don't mind share this segment here on the hide as I feel it would be pretty intriguing to most here. That said you'll have to be patient with me as written word is clearly not my modus operandi and I have a metic shit ton of other things that take priority so it very we'll could be awhile before I produce a refined product, it will probably be better off as a thread of its own. As for the the color of the boathouse at Hereford I don't know, red seems like a reasonable color for a boathouse but then again I've heard there isn't even a boathouse at Hereford. Seriously in you're interested in confirming the validly of my person, profession or organization please feel free to pm or email via my profile data.
Thanks, Ro.
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