• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Sidearms & Scatterguns Red Dot Dilemma

Have an enclosed green 2 & 32 setup on my Sig 322 that I got as a test and have liked it. Your comments in the other thread helped me decide when I get my Walther pdp pro it's going to be getting a 6moa dot.

Do I want solar? Heck no so I'm not getting it. Do I need green? No. Do I like green? Yes. Better than red.
I think the reason I mock green reticles, especially for pistols, is because a trained shooter focused on the target should find it easier to detect the flash of red easier/quicker than green. YMMV
 
I think the reason I mock green reticles, especially for pistols, is because a trained shooter focused on the target should find it easier to detect the flash of red easier/quicker than green. YMMV

"In recent years, consideration of human color visual sensitivity has led to changes in the long-standing practice of painting emergency vehicles, such as fire trucks and ambulances, entirely red. Although the color is intended for the vehicles to be easily seen and responded to, the wavelength distribution is not highly visible at low light levels and appears nearly black at night. The human eye is much more sensitive to yellow-green or similar hues, particularly at night, and now most new emergency vehicles are at least partially painted a vivid yellowish green or white, often retaining some red highlights in the interest of tradition."
 

"In recent years, consideration of human color visual sensitivity has led to changes in the long-standing practice of painting emergency vehicles, such as fire trucks and ambulances, entirely red. Although the color is intended for the vehicles to be easily seen and responded to, the wavelength distribution is not highly visible at low light levels and appears nearly black at night. The human eye is much more sensitive to yellow-green or similar hues, particularly at night, and now most new emergency vehicles are at least partially painted a vivid yellowish green or white, often retaining some red highlights in the interest of tradition."
Interesting. It'd be informative if objective scientific research was done with otherwise identical optics on identical firearms with a few thousand people who are trained and competent in the use of dot optics. Perhaps the results would be surprising.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FatBoy
Although the color is intended for the vehicles to be easily seen and responded to, the wavelength distribution is not highly visible at low light levels and appears nearly black at night. The human eye is much more sensitive to yellow-green or similar hues, particularly at night, and now most new emergency vehicles are at least partially painted a vivid yellowish green or white, often retaining some red highlights in the interest of tradition."

Interesting. It'd be informative if objective scientific research was done with otherwise identical optics on identical firearms with a few thousand people who are trained and competent in the use of dot optics. Perhaps the results would be surprising.

At night, on Navy ships, we set "Condition Dog Zebra." It means "darken ship." No lights on the outside of the ship. And any spaces that connect to the weather decks (outdoor areas on ship) via a hatch (aka door) have a switch built into the hatch. When the hatch is opened, that switch automatically turns off any regular lights in that space and turns on red colored lights. Why? Because it's much harder for human eyes to detect red at night and at distances.
 

"In recent years, consideration of human color visual sensitivity has led to changes in the long-standing practice of painting emergency vehicles, such as fire trucks and ambulances, entirely red. Although the color is intended for the vehicles to be easily seen and responded to, the wavelength distribution is not highly visible at low light levels and appears nearly black at night. The human eye is much more sensitive to yellow-green or similar hues, particularly at night, and now most new emergency vehicles are at least partially painted a vivid yellowish green or white, often retaining some red highlights in the interest of tradition."

That's the more recent selling point on green optics anyway.

In practice, it doesn't matter unless your eyes prefer one or the other. If you're not screwing around with manual brightness adjustments (and most likely getting it wrong at least part of every day) the optic should be setting itself to be bright and visible enough regardless if it's red or green.

For my eyes, green shows more starburst in every optic I've tried, while red is generally a nice clean round dot. I've switched back to red, obviously.
 
I EDC a Holosun 507. It has the "shake awake" feature. Of course I'm quite aware that it is always on while I'm wearing it. But I don't wear my EDC while I'm sleeping, eh? So, when I'm asleep, it's asleep. It probably helps with the battery life.
View attachment 8400190

If you're using the auto brightness feature though, then it's automatically dimming to conserve battery under your clothing. If not, that's just one more strike against manual brightness adjustments for a carry application.

Although a P80 frame and cheapo cutout slide have no place in a good carry gun either IMO. Reliability is too important to play games with this stuff.
 
If you're using the auto brightness feature though, then it's automatically dimming to conserve battery under your clothing. If not, that's just one more strike against manual brightness adjustments for a carry application.

Although a P80 frame and cheapo cutout slide have no place in a good carry gun either IMO. Reliability is too important to play games with this stuff.
I use the auto-bright setting. The only time I go to manual is at the range where the overhead light at the shooting booth is bright and downrange is dark. It results in a reticle that is too bright. So, I prefer to turn it down manually for my indoor range sessions.

And since you decided to go off-topic, I'll address that just this once.

What makes you think / assume the slide was cheap? Furthermore unreliable? This build cost considerably more than what a retail factory Glock goes for. I don't do anything "cheap." Ask my wife! LOL!

I own 3 factory Glocks. I have carried the G27 and the G19. I now prefer this serialized (100% factory finished) P80 PFC9 frame. And it has exactly 7,656 flawless rounds through it. Yes, I track and document it. What would you call "reliable?"

All internal parts are OEM Glock.

My most recent session... I'll take it. The 3D torso target was from "compressed ready"... punch out... rapid fire a 4 to 5 shot string.

1713622224101.png
1713620152203.png
1713620063765.png


And I carry a "BUG." (S&W 642) :geek:

PS.... I did have an OEM Glock firing pin (in the P80) fail at 7400 rounds. The tip broke off. The trigger spring on my factory G19 broke at about 8,000 rounds.

Broken-firing-pin.jpg
 
Last edited:
I think the reason I mock green reticles, especially for pistols, is because a trained shooter focused on the target should find it easier to detect the flash of red easier/quicker than green. YMMV
That assumes that everyone's vision works the same. Which is utterly ignorant.

Have you ever heard of color blindness for instance?
 
At night, on Navy ships, we set "Condition Dog Zebra." It means "darken ship." No lights on the outside of the ship. And any spaces that connect to the weather decks (outdoor areas on ship) via a hatch (aka door) have a switch built into the hatch. When the hatch is opened, that switch automatically turns off any regular lights in that space and turns on red colored lights. Why? Because it's much harder for human eyes to detect red at night and at distances.
Another dumb comparison.

Especially because that's not the reason for red indoor lighting at night. It's to make it easier and faster for the eyes of topside watchstanders to adapt to darkness.

If red lights were so fucking difficult to see at night then why is the port side running light red?
 
  • Like
Reactions: maceface
Another dumb comparison.

Especially because that's not the reason for red indoor lighting at night. It's to make it easier and faster for the eyes of topside watchstanders to adapt to darkness.

If red lights were so fucking difficult to see at night then why is the port side running light red?
Yes. That, too. I wasn't referring to that.

And that's not why the dog zebra hatches (that access weather decks) have that switch that (when opened) turn off the white light and switch to red. It's so the white light in those spaces (which are NOT normally illuminated with red) doesn't "leak" outside and possibly compromise the security of the ship. As soon as the hatch is re-closed, the inside light goes back to regular white light. I was there. I used those hatches. :)

But, yes... red lights are also used, as working illumination in places like the bridge to preserve night vision of the folks on duty (who need that night vision). Again... not what I was talking about. Carry on.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: 308pirate
That assumes that everyone's vision works the same. Which is utterly ignorant.

Have you ever heard of color blindness for instance?
My use of the word "should" in the comment specifically means it won't apply to everyone.