Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

[steve123]

I need to order some Redding neck size bushings for my 17-6.5G wildcat cartridge and could use some help picking the correct sizes to reduce the neck down in the appropriate steps.

In your experience, how many thousandths is a good average that will allow the case neck to go into the bushing without crushing the case?

Thanks for any advise!

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

I'd say that is a neck turn cartridge! Going down ".020" at a time shouldn't hurt.

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

Yep I'll be doing a clean up on the necks.

Thanks Milo!

 

[ZiaHunter]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

Redding recommends not sizing more than .005 in a single step. I tried this on several different calibers and it does make a difference in minimizing runout. Measure the diameter of a fired case neck then subtract the size of the final bushing size you plan on using. If greater than .005 order a bushing that will that will allow you to do it in steps. By doing so I have been able to achieve neck runout less than .001.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiaHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding recommends not sizing more than .005 in a single step. I tried this on several different calibers and it does make a difference in minimizing runout. Measure the diameter of a fired case neck then subtract the size of the final bushing size you plan on using. If greater than .005 order a bushing that will that will allow you to do it in steps. By doing so I have been able to achieve neck runout less than .001. </div></div>
So going from a diameter of .286 or so to .200 you'd need about 17 bushings. Most likely 13 or so would never be able to be used for anything else, your cost would be $340.00 for titanium bushings alone, I didn't price steel ones.
I've seen guys neck 6.5X47 brass down to .22 cal in one step and have tack driving rifles. Maybe the neck turning brings the concenticity back.

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiaHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding recommends not sizing more than .005 in a single step. I tried this on several different calibers and it does make a difference in minimizing runout. Measure the diameter of a fired case neck then subtract the size of the final bushing size you plan on using. If greater than .005 order a bushing that will that will allow you to do it in steps. By doing so I have been able to achieve neck runout less than .001. </div></div>

Thanks for the advice and trying to help but it's going to be pricey and a ton of work necking down .005 at a time.

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZiaHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding recommends not sizing more than .005 in a single step. I tried this on several different calibers and it does make a difference in minimizing runout. Measure the diameter of a fired case neck then subtract the size of the final bushing size you plan on using. If greater than .005 order a bushing that will that will allow you to do it in steps. By doing so I have been able to achieve neck runout less than .001. </div></div>
So going from a diameter of .286 or so to .200 you'd need about 17 bushings. Most likely 13 or so would never be able to be used for anything else, your cost would be $340.00 for titanium bushings alone, I didn't price steel ones.
I've seen guys neck 6.5X47 brass down to .22 cal in one step and have tack driving rifles. Maybe the neck turning brings the concenticity back. </div></div>

I think I'll be using a Redding type S FL bushing die in 6PPC to do the forming. I don't mind doing a little extra work by doing a few extra steps if I'm assured that the neck will enter the bushing without crushing the neck.

I suppose I could get the bushings in .015 steps to make sure???

Or maybe it would be better to buy 6PPC, 22PPC, 20PPC and 17PPC form dies. Pricey as well.

If anybody reading this has used dies in these cartridges please contact me.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to order some Redding neck size bushings for my 17-6.5G wildcat cartridge and could use some help picking the correct sizes to reduce the neck down in the appropriate steps.

In your experience, how many thousandths is a good average that will allow the case neck to go into the bushing without crushing the case?

Thanks for any advise! </div></div>

Redding states, or did state, that they like to go no more than .007"-.008" at a time mostly to preseve 'springback' in the necks.

Most of us here, stick with an arbitrary number of .005". I don't know if you could get away with say...a .010" increment, but that might be a cheaper option.

You wouldn't have to worry about springback if you were to anneal your cases after the final neck sizing step.

Chris

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

Thanks Chris,

I have a Benchsource annealer that I will be using so it'll be no problem concerning the spring back.

I'm just trying to find the perfect balance.

Hornady wanted $320 for a form die set. I'm trying to find a cheaper solution but want the cases to turn out right as well.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Chris,

I have a Benchsource annealer that I will be using so it'll be no problem concerning the spring back.

I'm just trying to find the perfect balance.

Hornady wanted $320 for a form die set. I'm trying to find a cheaper solution but want the cases to turn out right as well.

</div></div>

Well, regarding bushing sizing for that great an amount, you're the pioneer and the pioneers always take the first arrows, so good luck there.

Look on Ebay, as bushings come up regularly and for cheaper than the retail rate. Just going on RP brass in 260 Rem, which I loaded up for a buddy, I liked the .290" TiNi bushing, but I also had a .289" TiNi bushing, for .002"ish of neck tension with that particular brand of brass.

Maybe you start with a .280" TiNi bushing and see how that works for a .010" increment. If it works and you're not in a huge hurry, you might try something like a .265" bushing and see how that second pass works. You might run into problems getting the necks into bushings that are smaller than that .008"=.010" range.

If you can make it .015" at a time, then you'll need fewer total bushings. You will be work hardening those necks, so yeah...you'll need to anneal them to soften them up.

My caustion is is that you don't want to run out and buy 6-8 bushings, only to find out that a .010", or .015" step is just too much.

Good luck, Chris

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

Yeah that's my concern as well.

Can someone do a experiment for me and try a .15 neck down on any old piece of brass please

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah that's my concern as well.

Can someone do a experiment for me and try a .15 neck down on any old piece of brass please

</div></div>

Another problem that you'll run into is is...where is that brass going to be moving to? Will the necks lengthen, will they force a donut on the inside, near the neck/shoulder joint, or will that metal not go anywhere?

I don't know.

Unless some of us use neck bushings for various cartridges, I don't think somebody just loading up say...260 Rem, will have the requisite number of bushings to figure things out for you.

Chris

 

[tony2772]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

To answer your question, I've sized 308 brass down to 260 in one shot with no problems. The only problem I ran into was when I was making 6.5 Creed brass when pushing the shoulder back. I ended up having to aneal the cases befor shoving the shoulder back so far. If all your doing is just the necks you will probably find they will size just fine. I do have to trim the neck thickness though when using 308 brass. And if your going smaller I find the doughnuts do not show up.

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

But you used full length or form dies right? It's a little different using bushings because the neck has to be small enough to enter it.

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

I'm thinking by the time I neck down to 17 cal there will be a donut but the expandiron should push the brass to the outside which will be cut off by neck turning.

I've got a inside neck reamer I could use but it's another step in a lengthy process.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

You can always run a case thru your S die without a bushing in first..
Then put the bushing in for the final pass..
Try it, check runout, and see if it works BEFORE spending dollars on intermediate dies/bushings.

I sized down .308-708 no problem, no runout. It worked fine, maybe you could use a 708 body die as an intermediate size-down?

won't your 'first firing' on the sized brass be fire-forming anyway? So maybe a little runout not such an issue for fire-forming/short range loads?
Just a thought.

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gfunkUK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can always run a case thru your S die without a bushing in first..
Then put the bushing in for the final pass..
Try it, check runout, and see if it works BEFORE spending dollars on intermediate dies/bushings.

I sized down .308-708 no problem, no runout. It worked fine, maybe you could use a 708 body die as an intermediate size-down?

won't your 'first firing' on the sized brass be fire-forming anyway? So maybe a little runout not such an issue for fire-forming/short range loads?
Just a thought. </div></div>

Did you use a 308 S die with the 7mm bushing or a 708 S die with a bushing?

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

I might have found a cheaper solution that I know will work and have fewer steps by using Redding, as I have a 50% off certificate. Not getting the S die at all but buying a 6mmPPC form die, 22PPC form die, 20PPC body die and a custom 17PPC form die. It'll cost me about $160.

I can have the gunsmith use the chambering reamer to ream out a Wilson seater die blank. Then send the 3 times fired cases off to have a custom sizer done.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gfunkUK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can always run a case thru your S die without a bushing in first..
Then put the bushing in for the final pass..
Try it, check runout, and see if it works BEFORE spending dollars on intermediate dies/bushings.

I sized down .308-708 no problem, no runout. It worked fine, maybe you could use a 708 body die as an intermediate size-down?

won't your 'first firing' on the sized brass be fire-forming anyway? So maybe a little runout not such an issue for fire-forming/short range loads?
Just a thought. </div></div>

Did you use a 308 S die with the 7mm bushing or a 708 S die with a bushing? </div></div>

I used 708 s die without bushing first, (this acts as a body die)
Then put bushing in and ran them thru again, job done.

Obviously your going smaller, but the principle is the same..
You can use your S die without a bushing as one of your 'step downs'.

 

[steve123]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

Good to know,thanks.

 

[Scooter64]

Re: Redding type S bushings for necking down in steps.

i've done .345 to .332 (.013 in sizing)in two steps with out problems. If you did it in one step you will form a exterior bump/ring at the base of the neck. Since i'm using a redding carbide button, the first sizing no button. The second sizing i installed the carbide button. The first bushing i used was .337 and the second bushing is a .332. This is for winchester case in 308.
(redding type s die used)

I did this because my semi expands the neck to .345 vs my gap bolt which is way smaller than that. i use bushing .332 for my bolt gun without forming a ring