Reduced quality 22LR ammo - most match brands

[Tiger_Shilone]

Hmm, so if I'm on a ship in the ocean and my barrel is moving up and down due to the frequency of the waves moving the boat each shot would have a different velocity due to the barrel moving up and down?

All barrels have what's called a natural resonant frequency. That means their vibrations are caused by firing the projectile. Their vibrations are due to physical properties, weight, length, thickness, etc. Vibrations are similar to a guitar string. What the tuner does is moves the resonate mode to a different spot to dampen the natural resonant frequency. There is no difference in speed that the bullet exits if it's at the top, middle, or bottom of the node. The tuner dampens the movement to a minimum. This dampening and tuning is only repeatable if the ammo is repeatable. That's why you may have to tune every lot of ammo. Maybe every box.

How many here used a tuner and then stopped because it was non value added. Meaning is was not worth tuning almost every box of ammo?

Where did you acquire this theory?

You’re almost there, almost ready to learn something .

Tuners don’t dampen barrel movement, they change the timing of barrel whip frequency to match the various different speeds of the bullets so that a slower bullet exits the barrel at a slightly higher trajectory than a faster bullet. The slower bullet will then hit the same POI as the faster bullet since it had a higher arc trajectory. We are only dealing with gravity and resulting barrel droop, not side to side motion.

There is a whole industry built up around tuners. If it didn’t work the tuner aftermarket would not exist. But it isn’t a cure all and has it’s drawbacks as well. It only works for the node it’s tuned to at a specific distance. Change that distance and now the barrel is out of tune and groups will get worse, maybe worse than without the tuner.

You state you’re an engineer so that means you are always right and everyone else is wrong unless it can be proven with hard data. So go to varmintal.com specifically https://www.varmintal.com/a22lr.htm and see all the FIA stuff this rocket science guy does as a hobby. Lots of pictures and a couple movies make it so even a rube like me can get an idea of how tuning works.

 

[GuideDog]

I'm shooting a Vudoo V22S., ARA Unlimited at 50yds. is my game. I'm not a world beater...just having fun.

I think missed calls on condition change is what affects my shooting the most.




Won't hurt anything to give it a try. Let us know how it shoots for you.

Just so you know....I don't use a chronograph so I have no idea what kind of numbers to expect.

I don't use a chrono either. I just go by POI changes and grouping. As long as is subsonic it's good. I read it's about 1050fps. I use either 18 or 20" length tubes so I don't slow the velocity with a longer barrel.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Shhhhhh!!! LOL!!!

Sorry you know me always trying to be helpful

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I don't use a chrono either. I just go by POI changes and grouping. As long as is subsonic it's good. I read it's about 1050fps. I use either 18 or 20" length tubes so I don't slow the velocity with a longer barrel.

Without a chrono how the hell can you tell what speed correlated to the POI.
damn you should come out here to Vegas and play the tables you'll walk away with some big money, if you can know the speed by mere POI knowing when to bet would be simple for you

Lee

 

[GuideDog]

You’re almost there, almost ready to learn something .

Tuners don’t dampen barrel movement, they change the timing of barrel whip frequency to match the various different speeds of the bullets so that a slower bullet exits the barrel at a slightly higher trajectory than a faster bullet. The slower bullet will then hit the same POI as the faster bullet since it had a higher arc trajectory. We are only dealing with gravity and resulting barrel droop, not side to side motion.

There is a whole industry built up around tuners. If it didn’t work the tuner aftermarket would not exist. But it isn’t a cure all and has it’s drawbacks as well. It only works for the node it’s tuned to at a specific distance. Change that distance and now the barrel is out of tune and groups will get worse, maybe worse than without the tuner.

You state you’re an engineer so that means you are always right and everyone else is wrong unless it can be proven with hard data. So go to varmintal.com specifically https://www.varmintal.com/a22lr.htm and see all the FIA stuff this rocket science guy does as a hobby. Lots of pictures and a couple movies make it so even a rube like me can get an idea of how tuning works.

Geez you need to re-read that. A tuner does NOT change the velocity of bullets. The article explains the effect of a slower and faster charges propelling the bullet. The whip is dampened or changed by the tuner. Again no change in velocity by the tuner, the barrel acts differently of course (natural frequency) to different velocity charges. Different frequencies are produced changing the oscillation.

It's not hard to understand. What part was I wrong on? The article is about A Harrell tuner and a reverse taper barrel. Do you have one? Do you know someone that does? Reverse taper acts slightly differently but the effect of the tuner is the same, to dampen whip. I explained the effect on a straight barrel since that's very common. They dampen vibration, call it whip or whatever term you want.

What surprising is how people cant comprehend. Sorry, gotta be honest.

Do people buy things like tuners that may or not be useful? Yep! Just asked at the last match if the tuner was helping. Answer, Ask again in a few months. If it worked well the answer would be yes. I also know a few who also purchased one and decided it's not worth trying to tune each new lot or even box of ammo to get 0.1 inch better accuracy. That's why there are different grades of ammo, in a perfect world. But it's not perfect just yet, is it?

Google reverse taper barrel to see how uncommon they are. I don't recall ever seeing one! Again, have you? If so I'll be interest to learn more.

Good explanation on how one works on a reverse taper and why with a tuner.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Geez you need to re-read that. A tuner does NOT change the velocity of bullets. The article explains the effect of a slower and faster charges propelling the bullet. The whip is dampened or changed by the tuner. Again no change in velocity by the tuner, the barrel acts differently of course (natural frequency) to different velocity charges. Different frequencies are produced changing the oscillation.

It's not hard to understand. What part was I wrong on? The article is about A Harrell tuner and a reverse taper barrel. Do you have one? Do you know someone that does? Reverse taper acts slightly differently but the effect of the tuner is the same, to dampen whip. I explained the effect on a straight barrel since that's very common. What surprising is how people cant comprehend. Sorry, gotta be honest.

Google reverse taper barrel to see how uncommon they are. I don't recall ever seeing one! Again, have you? If so I'll be interest to learn more.

Good explanation on how one works on a reverse taper and why with a tuner.

I think you need to read better. what was being mentioned by Tiger was what is called Positive Compensation where you have slow and fast shots intersecting to the same POI. but how can that be? it is called exit timing a fast round will exit earlier than a slow so impact if the exit is unaltered will be different but by placing weight at an exact point forward of the crown you can merge the two different velocities. no one has ever achieved 100% total compensation if one does every different velocity of each round would be at the exact POI so the need for your prefect ammo won't be necessary.

I shoot a rifle with a heavy reverse taper barrel. the best score RBA target is 250-22X shooting CX bought blind. I won 6 consecutive club championships with this very rifle. the tuner I have on it is a modified Harrell lightened to 4.25-oz. I assure you it does not dampen anything. it times the exit of the bullet, so it is near always at the top of the barrel rise.

Lee

 

[Williwaw]

I'll be interest to learn more.

Call me unconvinced.

 

[GuideDog]

I think you need to read better. what was being mentioned by Tiger was what is called Positive Compensation where you have slow and fast shots intersecting to the same POI. but how can that be? it is called exit timing a fast round will exit earlier than a slow so impact if the exit is unaltered will be different but by placing weight at an exact point forward of the crown you can merge the two different velocities. no one has ever achieved 100% total compensation if one does every different velocity of each round would be at the exact POI so the need for your prefect ammo won't be necessary.

I shoot a rifle with a heavy reverse taper barrel. the best score RBA target is 250-22X shooting CX bought blind. I won 6 consecutive club championships with this very rifle. the tuner I have on it is a modified Harrell lightened to 4.25-oz. I assure you it does not dampen anything. it times the exit of the bullet, so it is near always at the top of the barrel rise.

Lee

Yep, I re-read and I was wrong. Never heard of reverse taper and I don't use a tuner. Never needed one. I have shot 250-17X without one.
Dampening changes the timing. There's no other way to do that, but yep it's to have the bullet exit at the top of the wave. No velocity changes to the bullet, just adjusting the weight to dampen the whip, changing the time of the oscillation to hit the max. I never really looked into what a tuner does and assumed it was just reducing the oscillations.