When you purchase a new rifle how do you proceed? Do you select factory ammunition to establish factory ammo accuracy results and go from there or do you begin to handload with fresh supplies? Just wondering if I should start my new 308 on factory and move to reloads, or start and stay on reloads?
- Thread starter sic65stang
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Re: Reload first?
First of all, slowly break-in the barrel. Then worry about accuracy which will be benefited with reloading. I do have a Rem 700 in 243 Win that is dead on with the factory Rem Core-Lokt 100 gr SP. But, then again, that gun generally shoots all 100 gr flat base bullets very well.
First of all, slowly break-in the barrel. Then worry about accuracy which will be benefited with reloading. I do have a Rem 700 in 243 Win that is dead on with the factory Rem Core-Lokt 100 gr SP. But, then again, that gun generally shoots all 100 gr flat base bullets very well.
Re: Reload first?
Depends if I'm all set up for it or not. I do have a tendency to lack patience though so if I'm at the store I'm apt to pick up some factory to sight in and see what the rifle can do with it, I like to know of a few factory loads that shoot good in them anyway.
Depends if I'm all set up for it or not. I do have a tendency to lack patience though so if I'm at the store I'm apt to pick up some factory to sight in and see what the rifle can do with it, I like to know of a few factory loads that shoot good in them anyway.
Re: Reload first?
Depends on whether I have any factory ammo to start with or not. I usually do, but if not I won't go out and buy some to establish a "baseline" or anything, I'll just go straight to handloading for it. A couple of mine have never fired a factory round.
Depends on whether I have any factory ammo to start with or not. I usually do, but if not I won't go out and buy some to establish a "baseline" or anything, I'll just go straight to handloading for it. A couple of mine have never fired a factory round.
Re: Reload first?
I have several rifles that have never seen a factory round, just handloads. If you are set up to load that cartridge there is no reason to buy any factory ammo. You might have to try a few component combinations to get you where you want to be but there is no need to buy factory stuff unless you have a rare cartridge that is hard to get brass for.
I have several rifles that have never seen a factory round, just handloads. If you are set up to load that cartridge there is no reason to buy any factory ammo. You might have to try a few component combinations to get you where you want to be but there is no need to buy factory stuff unless you have a rare cartridge that is hard to get brass for.
Re: Reload first?
six of one half dozen of the other take your pick or you could reload some reduced loads for breakin and go from there. i use my reloads myself.
six of one half dozen of the other take your pick or you could reload some reduced loads for breakin and go from there. i use my reloads myself.
Re: Reload first?
I would just start load development straight away... but it is never a bad idea to get a baseline with known factory ammo like fed gold match or equivalent. Common calibers like 308 or 223 might get shot with factory ammo first for me since there is usually a box or two laying around.
I would just start load development straight away... but it is never a bad idea to get a baseline with known factory ammo like fed gold match or equivalent. Common calibers like 308 or 223 might get shot with factory ammo first for me since there is usually a box or two laying around.
Re: Reload first?
When I pick up a new rifle/caliber I also pick up dies and brass. For 308 choose your brass then roll your own. If you are curious about factory, pick up a box of FGMM, shoot your sub-moa then go back to rolling you own.
When I pick up a new rifle/caliber I also pick up dies and brass. For 308 choose your brass then roll your own. If you are curious about factory, pick up a box of FGMM, shoot your sub-moa then go back to rolling you own.
Re: Reload first?
I'm not as really a big a fan of barrel break-in mantras as once I was; but I do believe in using fireformed brass.
I will buy and fire generic ammo with generally good quality brass, and follow a moderately anal process of firing and cleaning as part fo that process. I consider 100 cases to be a good initial lot 'round number' quantity for fireformed brass.
Basically, I end up with acceptable brass that's fireformed, a basic sight-in zero, and some sort of accuracy benchmark based on the performance of generic commercial ammo.
The barrel may benefit, too; but that's secondary.
I believe that until these checkpoints are reached, handloading is probably pointless, because a good, representative bore transit time for that particular barrel is likely still a moving target until these checkpoints get reached, anyway. A reasonable level of bore wear is essential to the process. Without a consistent generic bore transit time becoming established, load development is not likely to become truly effective.
Greg
I'm not as really a big a fan of barrel break-in mantras as once I was; but I do believe in using fireformed brass.
I will buy and fire generic ammo with generally good quality brass, and follow a moderately anal process of firing and cleaning as part fo that process. I consider 100 cases to be a good initial lot 'round number' quantity for fireformed brass.
Basically, I end up with acceptable brass that's fireformed, a basic sight-in zero, and some sort of accuracy benchmark based on the performance of generic commercial ammo.
The barrel may benefit, too; but that's secondary.
I believe that until these checkpoints are reached, handloading is probably pointless, because a good, representative bore transit time for that particular barrel is likely still a moving target until these checkpoints get reached, anyway. A reasonable level of bore wear is essential to the process. Without a consistent generic bore transit time becoming established, load development is not likely to become truly effective.
Greg
Re: Reload first?
I am with Greg on this. I do break barrels in myself as I see advice from people more experienced than me recommend it.
That's OK by me since I feel that until the brass is fireformd to your chamber you really can't start to get optimum results. When you look at the allowable SAAMI tolerances and understand that the round has to chamber in the tightest among them, you can see how a factory round could be fairly loose in your particular chamber if you happen to have a chamber that ended up on the high side of the allowable dimension.
It is for this reason that I neck size only unless and until my round chambers hard and then I bump the shoulder the absolute minimum.
I am with Greg on this. I do break barrels in myself as I see advice from people more experienced than me recommend it.
That's OK by me since I feel that until the brass is fireformd to your chamber you really can't start to get optimum results. When you look at the allowable SAAMI tolerances and understand that the round has to chamber in the tightest among them, you can see how a factory round could be fairly loose in your particular chamber if you happen to have a chamber that ended up on the high side of the allowable dimension.
It is for this reason that I neck size only unless and until my round chambers hard and then I bump the shoulder the absolute minimum.
Re: Reload first?
I take that a small step further and only partially neck size with backed off F/L die. The shorter sizing makes for less neck tension, and the still-expanded portion of the neck should center the case neck in the chamber better.
You can go yet another small step and experiment with the length of the case neck that gets sized; as a potential means of keeping up with neek hardening and maybe managing neck tension as an accuracy tool.
My measurement is based on starting witn too short a length (which allows a seated bullet to be finger turned in the neck), then inceasing the length to an arbitrary length (like maybe where the bullet resists being finger turned)
You can't really establish a numeric neck tension value, but you can establish a test which allows it to remain measurably constant as brass continues to harden.
I believe that any method which establishes consistency in a critical area (like neck tension) contributes to consistent accuracy; and that's a plus.
Neck tension is a hard thing to actually manage with any real meaning, but I think this method makes a good effort in a good direction.
Neck tension is maybe the most important issue I consider when handloading my ammo. The other stuff can be measured, locked in, and maintained verifiably, but neck brass work hardening makes consistent and beneficial neck tension a moving target.
I don't like hot loads, they contribute to brass length growth, which interferes with my technique.
I have to reset the dies so they can bump the shoulder, then go back to the partial sizing process. But when I bump, the partial sizing can't be maintained for that loading cycle. Hot loads also drive brass life expiration by accelerating the process of overexpanding the primer paockets. And lastly, hot loads murder good barrels.
Sometimes you can pull a Houdini, like by using a .308 F/L die as a .260 or 7-08 bump die. Same-same with .30-'06 and .280, but you gotta be more careful with that one as they have different shoulder lengths..
Greg
I take that a small step further and only partially neck size with backed off F/L die. The shorter sizing makes for less neck tension, and the still-expanded portion of the neck should center the case neck in the chamber better.
You can go yet another small step and experiment with the length of the case neck that gets sized; as a potential means of keeping up with neek hardening and maybe managing neck tension as an accuracy tool.
My measurement is based on starting witn too short a length (which allows a seated bullet to be finger turned in the neck), then inceasing the length to an arbitrary length (like maybe where the bullet resists being finger turned)
You can't really establish a numeric neck tension value, but you can establish a test which allows it to remain measurably constant as brass continues to harden.
I believe that any method which establishes consistency in a critical area (like neck tension) contributes to consistent accuracy; and that's a plus.
Neck tension is a hard thing to actually manage with any real meaning, but I think this method makes a good effort in a good direction.
Neck tension is maybe the most important issue I consider when handloading my ammo. The other stuff can be measured, locked in, and maintained verifiably, but neck brass work hardening makes consistent and beneficial neck tension a moving target.
I don't like hot loads, they contribute to brass length growth, which interferes with my technique.
I have to reset the dies so they can bump the shoulder, then go back to the partial sizing process. But when I bump, the partial sizing can't be maintained for that loading cycle. Hot loads also drive brass life expiration by accelerating the process of overexpanding the primer paockets. And lastly, hot loads murder good barrels.
Sometimes you can pull a Houdini, like by using a .308 F/L die as a .260 or 7-08 bump die. Same-same with .30-'06 and .280, but you gotta be more careful with that one as they have different shoulder lengths..
Greg
Re: Reload first?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Neck tension is a hard thing to actually manage with any real meaning, but I think this method makes a good effort in a good direction.
Neck tension is maybe the most important issue I consider when handloading my ammo. </div></div>
For me as well. I've found that neck turning initially, frequent annealing, neck sizing with a collet die, and as a last step running all cases through a Sinclair Expander die using the .308 "oversize" mandrel. This has yielded the most uniform neck tension for me. When cases get hard to chamber, I then use a Redding body die first, then moving on to the regular sequence of collet then expander.
I find that I can measure neck tension when seating using a "fish scale" on my press handle. Uniform necks yield uniform weight readings on my scale.
As I see it, neck size for uniformity of thickness in the neck, anneal for uniform consistency, and expand for uniform size. Beyond that the only thing one can do is get the appropriate crystals, herbs, and ground animal parts to array on their bench to appease the gods
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Neck tension is a hard thing to actually manage with any real meaning, but I think this method makes a good effort in a good direction.
Neck tension is maybe the most important issue I consider when handloading my ammo. </div></div>
For me as well. I've found that neck turning initially, frequent annealing, neck sizing with a collet die, and as a last step running all cases through a Sinclair Expander die using the .308 "oversize" mandrel. This has yielded the most uniform neck tension for me. When cases get hard to chamber, I then use a Redding body die first, then moving on to the regular sequence of collet then expander.
I find that I can measure neck tension when seating using a "fish scale" on my press handle. Uniform necks yield uniform weight readings on my scale.
As I see it, neck size for uniformity of thickness in the neck, anneal for uniform consistency, and expand for uniform size. Beyond that the only thing one can do is get the appropriate crystals, herbs, and ground animal parts to array on their bench to appease the gods
Re: Reload first?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you purchase a new rifle how do you proceed? Do you select factory ammunition to establish factory ammo accuracy results and go from there or do you begin to handload with fresh supplies? Just wondering if I should start my new 308 on factory and move to reloads, or start and stay on reloads? </div></div>
Just stick to the basics, don't get caught up in all the "I heard" crap, reload, and shoot. I get so tired of people trying to suck other people into one's techno misery. Have fun, be safe.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you purchase a new rifle how do you proceed? Do you select factory ammunition to establish factory ammo accuracy results and go from there or do you begin to handload with fresh supplies? Just wondering if I should start my new 308 on factory and move to reloads, or start and stay on reloads? </div></div>
Just stick to the basics, don't get caught up in all the "I heard" crap, reload, and shoot. I get so tired of people trying to suck other people into one's techno misery. Have fun, be safe.
Re: Reload first?
If it's new caliber, I'll pick up 100 - 150 match rounds to get a good feel for it. The brass from those become my first reloads. The serious dialing in / load development starts at that point.
If it's new caliber, I'll pick up 100 - 150 match rounds to get a good feel for it. The brass from those become my first reloads. The serious dialing in / load development starts at that point.
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