Wondering if anyone out there was working up 6.5-284 loads with H4350. Pulled the load data off 6mmbr website. there were some national records being set with the combo of H4350 142gr SMK in the 48.5-49.5 range. Im getting awful consistency out of a 28" pipe speeds all over. at 48.5 gr I was chronographing from 2860-2958. 100fps spread is way out of the norm for me.
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Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
Skip the 4350, make a quick pass by the H4831sc and try out some RL25 or H1000.
This is becoming a recurring soap box for me, but guys loading the 6.5-284 with H4831sc are not getting what they could from it.
The case has **almost** the capacity of a 6.5-06 (which I load for) and many complain about poor brass life and attribute it to the characteristics of the chambering.
It's characteristic of using a powder that's too fast for the chambering and over loading it for the sake of velocity.
The two powders I mentioned above will get you an almost full case before you get pressure signs to start and you'll net a significant speed gain over the "accepted" powders.
FWIW I shoot a heavily compressed load of Retumbo in the 6.5-06 to the mid 3100's in a 28" tube. Loading that is not for the faint of heart, since it requires judicious tapping and powder settling to avoid too much "crunch" in the powder. Start with H1000 and work with it some.
ETA: Put around 52.5-53.0gr of H1000 in the case to start.
Hodgdon's H100v may get you some good speed as well from the 28" barrel.
Skip the 4350, make a quick pass by the H4831sc and try out some RL25 or H1000.
This is becoming a recurring soap box for me, but guys loading the 6.5-284 with H4831sc are not getting what they could from it.
The case has **almost** the capacity of a 6.5-06 (which I load for) and many complain about poor brass life and attribute it to the characteristics of the chambering.
It's characteristic of using a powder that's too fast for the chambering and over loading it for the sake of velocity.
The two powders I mentioned above will get you an almost full case before you get pressure signs to start and you'll net a significant speed gain over the "accepted" powders.
FWIW I shoot a heavily compressed load of Retumbo in the 6.5-06 to the mid 3100's in a 28" tube. Loading that is not for the faint of heart, since it requires judicious tapping and powder settling to avoid too much "crunch" in the powder. Start with H1000 and work with it some.
ETA: Put around 52.5-53.0gr of H1000 in the case to start.
Hodgdon's H100v may get you some good speed as well from the 28" barrel.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
With my Terry Cross 6.5-284 stick he gave me his record setting load using H4831 sc. Never looked back.
With my Terry Cross 6.5-284 stick he gave me his record setting load using H4831 sc. Never looked back.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
I concur with Bohem, when I had my 6.5/284 barrel, a slower powder seemed to work better for me. I worked up to 58g of H1000 and it shot very well. I settled on 56.5g of H1000 as my load to avoid any pressure issues with high temperatures or extended shot strings. With BR2 primers, Lapua cases and 140g JLKs, that load hammered.
I worked through H4831 and N160 before settling with H1000.
I concur with Bohem, when I had my 6.5/284 barrel, a slower powder seemed to work better for me. I worked up to 58g of H1000 and it shot very well. I settled on 56.5g of H1000 as my load to avoid any pressure issues with high temperatures or extended shot strings. With BR2 primers, Lapua cases and 140g JLKs, that load hammered.
I worked through H4831 and N160 before settling with H1000.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
1917- H4831sc is very consistent and you can get excellent groups from it. My point is that some more experimentation with the powders will yield the same level of results but with an extra 100-150 fps to boot.
I'm sure Terry Cross built up a fantastic rifle and I don't doubt anything about his pedigree. I'm simply saying to try something that most don't think to bother with. The vast majority of information on the 6.5-284 stems from a very small number of people and it's been parroted around and copied and reposted ad nauseum. Many people have found successful loads and accepted what they got as being the best without trying anything different.
If that continued for the 308 then nobody would know that RL17 and 208 Amax's are a good combo.
Nobody would have a clue about shooting 75-90gr VLD's from a 223 to reach 1000+ yards.
et cetera.
ETA:
I started with 4831sc in the 6.5-06 and got great groups but only 2950fps before pressure signs started to show, I never made it to 3050fps before I was uncomfortable and it started to stretch case heads slightly. That's when I started looking for a different solution to get more from the chambering without backing out the primers.
1917- H4831sc is very consistent and you can get excellent groups from it. My point is that some more experimentation with the powders will yield the same level of results but with an extra 100-150 fps to boot.
I'm sure Terry Cross built up a fantastic rifle and I don't doubt anything about his pedigree. I'm simply saying to try something that most don't think to bother with. The vast majority of information on the 6.5-284 stems from a very small number of people and it's been parroted around and copied and reposted ad nauseum. Many people have found successful loads and accepted what they got as being the best without trying anything different.
If that continued for the 308 then nobody would know that RL17 and 208 Amax's are a good combo.
Nobody would have a clue about shooting 75-90gr VLD's from a 223 to reach 1000+ yards.
et cetera.
ETA:
I started with 4831sc in the 6.5-06 and got great groups but only 2950fps before pressure signs started to show, I never made it to 3050fps before I was uncomfortable and it started to stretch case heads slightly. That's when I started looking for a different solution to get more from the chambering without backing out the primers.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
I am currently running; Norma brass, Fed 210M, 139 Scenars HBN coated, pushed by 51.5 gr. of OLD H4831. Gives 3040-3050 out of a 30" tube. Accuracy is adequate. That being said I am willing to try a Retumbo load just to see what happens. Guidance?
I am currently running; Norma brass, Fed 210M, 139 Scenars HBN coated, pushed by 51.5 gr. of OLD H4831. Gives 3040-3050 out of a 30" tube. Accuracy is adequate. That being said I am willing to try a Retumbo load just to see what happens. Guidance?
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
Start around 57-57.5g of Retumbo and work up on it. I'm shooting 59.7gr out of the 6.5-06 for 3150 in a 28" tube.
I've shot 140 Amax with up to 59.0gr before I saw pressure signs and eased up on it for 3060-3075. They have a very long bearing surface on them and I never get the same speed from them as the 140 Bergers.
I think the Scenars fall somewhere between them.
Start around 57-57.5g of Retumbo and work up on it. I'm shooting 59.7gr out of the 6.5-06 for 3150 in a 28" tube.
I've shot 140 Amax with up to 59.0gr before I saw pressure signs and eased up on it for 3060-3075. They have a very long bearing surface on them and I never get the same speed from them as the 140 Bergers.
I think the Scenars fall somewhere between them.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
I shoot 1K competition, and it's accuracy first, velocity second, with in reason. I've shot a 6.5-284 for several years and a few barrels worth. I've tried R-19, R-22, R-25, H-4350, H-4831, H-1000, 7828, Retumbo, Magnum, and VV-165 to name most of them. H-4831SC gives decent velocities at sane pressures, and great accuracy along with smallish extreme spreads vital to long range. Hardly parroting bad advice. Given a good platform, they all work.
I shoot 1K competition, and it's accuracy first, velocity second, with in reason. I've shot a 6.5-284 for several years and a few barrels worth. I've tried R-19, R-22, R-25, H-4350, H-4831, H-1000, 7828, Retumbo, Magnum, and VV-165 to name most of them. H-4831SC gives decent velocities at sane pressures, and great accuracy along with smallish extreme spreads vital to long range. Hardly parroting bad advice. Given a good platform, they all work.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
alf- I'm not saying it's bad advice, I'm saying it's generally short on explanation. The loads work, but you can certainly get more from the chambering with experimentation.
The guys who did the experimentation with it initially found some excellent on paper results and won competitions and records with it. I'm just suggesting that more evolution of the loads can net more speed for the same level of repeatability.
You're quite right, the 4831sc gives excellent repeatability in the boiler room and subsequently on paper. I found the same level of repeatability with Retumbo and 150 fps on top of it, so I chalked it up to a win with Retumbo.
alf- I'm not saying it's bad advice, I'm saying it's generally short on explanation. The loads work, but you can certainly get more from the chambering with experimentation.
The guys who did the experimentation with it initially found some excellent on paper results and won competitions and records with it. I'm just suggesting that more evolution of the loads can net more speed for the same level of repeatability.
You're quite right, the 4831sc gives excellent repeatability in the boiler room and subsequently on paper. I found the same level of repeatability with Retumbo and 150 fps on top of it, so I chalked it up to a win with Retumbo.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
But in how many barrels?
Some examples of mine,
H-4831SC I went to 3125, but ES's went to the upper 20's. This load shot good, but was tough on pockets after a couple of firings.
H-1000 I went to 57 grains at only 2970.
R-22 went to 3123 but the groups doubled.
7828 went to 3103 but ES's were all over.
H-4350 went to 3165 and a .430" group(200yd) but an ES of 31.
I found the velocities, but not the other ingredients that matter to me.
But in how many barrels?
Some examples of mine,
H-4831SC I went to 3125, but ES's went to the upper 20's. This load shot good, but was tough on pockets after a couple of firings.
H-1000 I went to 57 grains at only 2970.
R-22 went to 3123 but the groups doubled.
7828 went to 3103 but ES's were all over.
H-4350 went to 3165 and a .430" group(200yd) but an ES of 31.
I found the velocities, but not the other ingredients that matter to me.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
It took me 191 rounds (appx 1/5th of a barrel) on the first barrel to sort through 4831sc, RL22, Retumbo, H4350 and settling on the Retumbo load with the 140 Berger.
I went through the 140 Berger and 140 Amax with the same low starting charge to see that the same powder charge would get me 75-100fps faster on the Berger. I attributed it to the bearing surface length difference between the 2 bullets and I don't shoot the Amax's much at all from it. I use them in my 260 instead.
My ES with Retumbo was 17fps over 10 rounds, 5 round group size at 100y was avg 0.44" and 1.93" at 600yd which was plenty acceptable for me to shoot tactical stuff with. Maybe 17fps isn't acceptable for the 1000yd paper competitions, I don't know.
This later post of yours is triple the information that is regularly posted about the caliber. You've clearly done your homework and you would be one of the few that I've read who tried the experiments. It's not uncommon to hear negative things about the overbore 6.5's because the understanding isn't there, just the mechanics of using partial information. I'm trying to help that behavior by explaining more on reloading for this family.
It took me 191 rounds (appx 1/5th of a barrel) on the first barrel to sort through 4831sc, RL22, Retumbo, H4350 and settling on the Retumbo load with the 140 Berger.
I went through the 140 Berger and 140 Amax with the same low starting charge to see that the same powder charge would get me 75-100fps faster on the Berger. I attributed it to the bearing surface length difference between the 2 bullets and I don't shoot the Amax's much at all from it. I use them in my 260 instead.
My ES with Retumbo was 17fps over 10 rounds, 5 round group size at 100y was avg 0.44" and 1.93" at 600yd which was plenty acceptable for me to shoot tactical stuff with. Maybe 17fps isn't acceptable for the 1000yd paper competitions, I don't know.
This later post of yours is triple the information that is regularly posted about the caliber. You've clearly done your homework and you would be one of the few that I've read who tried the experiments. It's not uncommon to hear negative things about the overbore 6.5's because the understanding isn't there, just the mechanics of using partial information. I'm trying to help that behavior by explaining more on reloading for this family.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
I blew around 350 rounds in my first barrel looking for the holy grail. I didn't mention different primers, neck tension, or seating depths among other things......
I finally decided to get six 8 pounders of H4831SC of the same lot and work on loading details, bench manners, and fighting the wind. When I screw on a new barrel, I know right where to go with the powder, with minimal dicking around.
I blew around 350 rounds in my first barrel looking for the holy grail. I didn't mention different primers, neck tension, or seating depths among other things......
I finally decided to get six 8 pounders of H4831SC of the same lot and work on loading details, bench manners, and fighting the wind. When I screw on a new barrel, I know right where to go with the powder, with minimal dicking around.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
Thanks alf and bohem! This is turning into a most informative thread. I had done my load development with H4831 and nekkid 139 scenars and had comfortably settled on 49gr. Then started mucking about with hbn, back to the drawing board. I have sort of resigned my first 6.5 barrel to development work and practice which I need.
If I get a couple of days I believe I'll start in on the Retumbo and see where it leads.
Thanks alf and bohem! This is turning into a most informative thread. I had done my load development with H4831 and nekkid 139 scenars and had comfortably settled on 49gr. Then started mucking about with hbn, back to the drawing board. I have sort of resigned my first 6.5 barrel to development work and practice which I need.
If I get a couple of days I believe I'll start in on the Retumbo and see where it leads.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
Hi Guys:
I have been shooting a 6.5x285 in long range competition for a couple of years. My rifle is built on a Savage singlr shot actiion, 28" Pac Nor barrel, and I tried H4831SC and R22. I setteled on H4350, 49grs, 142gr SMK just off of the lands. Supreb accuray@2970fps. I have used Lapua,Norna, and Winchester brass and could see no practical difference. I turned the necks on all brands of brass. I had expected to have a useful accurate barrel life of approx 1000-1200 rds. I now have 2061rds through the barrel and it is still very accurate. I have had to increase the powder charge to 50grs and seat the bullet out approx 100 thous. My velocity is noe 2925fps. Thought this might be of intrest to some of you.
Hi Guys:
I have been shooting a 6.5x285 in long range competition for a couple of years. My rifle is built on a Savage singlr shot actiion, 28" Pac Nor barrel, and I tried H4831SC and R22. I setteled on H4350, 49grs, 142gr SMK just off of the lands. Supreb accuray@2970fps. I have used Lapua,Norna, and Winchester brass and could see no practical difference. I turned the necks on all brands of brass. I had expected to have a useful accurate barrel life of approx 1000-1200 rds. I now have 2061rds through the barrel and it is still very accurate. I have had to increase the powder charge to 50grs and seat the bullet out approx 100 thous. My velocity is noe 2925fps. Thought this might be of intrest to some of you.
Re: reloading 6.5x284 H4350
If there was a rifle smith around here who could do good barrel changes which there is. and if I had the money to burn through barrels which I don't I would try new load developments. It sounds like could be fun given time and money are not an issue.
If there was a rifle smith around here who could do good barrel changes which there is. and if I had the money to burn through barrels which I don't I would try new load developments. It sounds like could be fun given time and money are not an issue.
