- Thread starter XP1K
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I just traded a box of the 225's to a friend of mine for some h110. Truth be told I've never been a fan of the hornady rifle bullets outside of the amax. But I keep trying them for some reason. Their factory ammo has shot well in most of my rifles but I've never been able to consistently recreate the results. I've been a Sierra bullet shooter almost exclusively and recently started venturing off into bergers with my 243 and now this 300. My 308 sees a steady diet of match kings and I hunt with a 155 or 168 amax.
Don't have a picture of it but I loaded to .035" jump after this and it's starting to get better. Still around an inch or better but it's going in the right direction. Sd came back down to 11 also. I've got .040" loaded but it started raining and I've got to get ready for work so, to be continued.
Something off is happening here based on that group size and it’s very unlikely to be the primers, or bullets. What are rifle specs and shooting setup?
That’s a lot of es and the group size is rather large for any handload
Load a small batch at .050” off. Berger Hybrids don’t like to be close to the lands. .020-.030 is borderline too close and some rifles shooting that bullet will hate it. SD is it irrelevant with such a small sample size and isn’t all that important anyway compared to how it groups.
Could explain why its getting better, I'll give it a try. Friend of mine shoots the 215 and 230 hybrids almost exclusively in his magnum 30's and he starts his at .020" so that's what I was going off of.
Consider Federal Gold Medal match ammo featuring Berger or Sierra match kings in any cartridge. Almost invariably, those running FGMM in their rifles are jumping at least .040 and likely a lot more (especially when used in semi autos). Yet FGMM shoots well in like 99.99% of rifles. No reason to be close to the lands.
When in doubt and using Berger hybrids , I’ll start at .050 and if the rifle likes it, I’ll creep up on the lands until groups open. I’ll then put the load into production at the closest jump point where it was still grouping tight.
History of the gun. Purchased as a donor from a friend of mine close to ten years ago as a factory, probably 70's to 80's vintage 700 BDL. This friend is also the one that put the first barrel in it and squared up the action and the bolt. First barrel was an old shilen eight land, 10 twist number 7 contour or something like that. Straight taper finished at 26" the muzzle was .720" iirc. That barrel only had one load it would ever shoot and that was a 180gr nosler ballistic tip doing 3300fps! One shot only on that brass. Hated every factory ammo I fed it.
I pulled that barrel after 180 rounds of no luck and had a 1:9 lilja mk13 mod something contour put on it. That barrel had one load it favored as well. 208 amax around 2900 with 71.0gr of imr 4831. Shot it great. Only downside was you couldn't shoot it when it was over 75 degrees outside.
That barrel got pulled at 385 rounds by black canyon customs out of Denver. Now it wears a 1:9 bartlein heavy Palma contour finished at 26" also. Shot a .8xx with factory hornady match 178eldm and one time shot a .510" with 76gr of magpro and a 208eldm. But only once.
I was mainly playing with the eldm to put some time on the barrel. 58 down the tube right now. It was chambered around a 215 hybrid at 3.715"
I found out later that that all that was done to the action was that the face of reciever was squared to the od. It wasn't trued to the centerline of the reciever. Bolt face was cleaned up in a lathe and fritz at black canyon said he lapped the lugs slightly and put a holland .250" thick recoil lug on it when he did the barrel job this time.
Action is torqued to 60 in-lbs.
Stock is an hs precision that was bedded with brownells steel bed but I had to redo the area around the recoil lug due to the new one being .250" and the old one was .180" I think.
Pic of my bedding work. I like a little support in front of the lug and in several of my other rifles it's never been an issue. What are your thoughts on this ?
I shoot off of sandbags with a rear bag for support.
Bullet jump will fine tune a load not fix a 1.25 or greater group. Something sounds very temperamental in your system and has been over several barrels. I’m not hating but for the amount of effort you’re putting into reloading you should be seeing much better groups across the board.
Is all this testing being done with a magnetospeed attached to the barrel?
Wrong.
Ive shot 1.5+ inch groups with hybrids too close to the lands. once backed off, groups shrink down to below an inch. Nothing was wrong with any of those rifles.
Groups below an inch arent the goal of reloading. Maybe we have different expectations
Wut?
So you prefer them to be greater than an inch?
@XP1K - id try .050 off and see what happens (one well-executed 3shot group is sufficient). If its still not grouping and you’ve tried a few different charge weights already (you may have but cant tell from pics), id either suspect the rifle doesn’t like that bullet (unlikely but may be the case), at 78g you could still be at or slightly above pressure threshold or something could be up with the platform (loose muzzle device, bbl not free floated, etc).
How does it shoot with factory ammo?
Wut?
So you prefer them to be greater than an inch?
@XP1K - id try .050 off and see what happens (one well-executed 3shot group is sufficient). If its still not grouping and you’ve tried a few different charge weights already (you may have but cant tell from pics), id either suspect the rifle doesn’t like that bullet (unlikely but may be the case), at 78g you could still be at or slightly above pressure threshold or something could be up with the platform (loose muzzle device, bbl not free floated, etc).
How does it shoot with factory ammo?
You actually think .02 movement off lands will shrink a group size by over an inch. Yikes.
This is what reloads should look like. 4 shot group - es of 14. Shooting the same 215 hybrid at .030 jump
Attachments
Dont think, know as ive seen it. Sometimes they respond well but lot of times they don’t. Yes they should look the pic but at .030 a lot of times they don’t.
Berger disagrees.
How to Load a Hybrid Bullet
Berger Hybrid Bullets were designed to be easy to load and tune to your rifle. Follow these simple steps to get started.
bergerbullets.com Good info but Every berger ive loaded liked .050+ and have seen plenty that didn’t like .020-.030…YMMVBerger disagrees.
How to Load a Hybrid Bullet
Berger Hybrid Bullets were designed to be easy to load and tune to your rifle. Follow these simple steps to get started.
I've used a magneto speed and a labradar and it really doesn't make a difference. All the stuff I posted with the 215's was done with the magneto speed.
I think I mentioned it somewhere else in this thread but I think I missed it in my most recent description. Rifle has a ptg firing pin assembly in it. Should I change back to the factory assembly and see what it does ? It's rolling around here somewhere.
The harmonics from a magnetospeed can and do open up groups. Try it without. Firing assembly is unlikely but won’t hurt to try given the high es.
I tuned a load in my 223 dpms varmint upper after watching a seating depth test video from winning in the wind on youtube that was shooting inch and a half or so. Had a good load but was limited by mag length so I started pushing them back .003" at a time as stated in the video I watched. At .006" under book it shot just over ½" so I stopped right there. Did the same thing with another ar and with a 155 amax in my 700LTR. It works. Just eats a lot of components.
I agree with you though, it shouldn't be this hard. I've been reloading since I was 11, only 35 now but, this has been the worst gun I've ever loaded for. It didn't earn the name problem child for nothing.
I’m gonna trust the manufacturer with Bryan litz and Doppler testing behind it for optimal performance.
Thats great. I trust them also but trust what the target tells me more than anything else.
I've got .040 jump loaded now, I may just set them back to .050 and see what happens.Wut?
So you prefer them to be greater than an inch?
@XP1K - id try .050 off and see what happens (one well-executed 3shot group is sufficient). If its still not grouping and you’ve tried a few different charge weights already (you may have but cant tell from pics), id either suspect the rifle doesn’t like that bullet (unlikely but may be the case), at 78g you could still be at or slightly above pressure threshold or something could be up with the platform (loose muzzle device, bbl not free floated, etc).
How does it shoot with factory ammo?
At 78gr I'm showing no pressure. Bullet is seated out long. Should be 3.680 oal at .050 jump. Lots of room in there and norma brass is pretty spacious compared to some others.
Factory ammo. So far it's only seen federal buckmaster 180gr sp for break in. Cannon fodder ammo.
At 17 rounds down the tube I cleaned it down to bare bright metal and shot the last six rounds I had of hornady match 178eldm. Pic attached. After cleaning I shot the target on the left. Shots are marked in order fired and velocity of each shot is noted next to its hole. After fifteen more rounds of various loads with a 208 eldm I shot the last three factory 178's at the target on the right, an .827" chrono data bottom right corner.
I've got another target with factory 180 corelokt that's better, .6 something I think. I'll have to find it. I think it's still stapled to the target backer.
All recent load development was done with Labradar.
I'm headed for bed, twelve hours in the windy misting rain last night, got off at 7:00 this morning. I'll post up the results if I get to shoot it this afternoon when I get up. 39 and misting rain here in se Texas today. Hopefully it clears up as the day goes on. Thanks for the help and insight.Later.
These targets are the same bullet? Did you adjust scope between? If they are the same bullet without adjusting the POI shift is concerning
I dont remember if I made an adjustment in between those or not. There is 15 rounds in between those two targets. I may have. Can't recall. Barrel was cold, clean and 20 rounds young at that point. Wouldn't surprise me if it shifted.
A krg bravo will be here for it tomorrow. I don't think it's bedding but another chassis should rule it out. We shall see.
That will help narrow it down
Well it's a fine day for shooting here in my little part of Texas, 43 degrees, 90% humidity, nnw wind at 10-15mph. It did actually calm down to 3-5mph while I was shooting which was nice. I know, you northerners are probably laughing at me but it's cold for us here lol.
Same load, 215 berger hybrid at .052" jump. .050" ended up on an odd number. 78.0gr magpro, 215m, Norma brass.
1. 2911
2. 2894
3. 2872
4. 2891
Es. 39
Sd. 15.9
Avg. 2892
Might push it to .060 jump and if that doesn't work it's on to something else I guess.
Same load, 215 berger hybrid at .052" jump. .050" ended up on an odd number. 78.0gr magpro, 215m, Norma brass.
1. 2911
2. 2894
3. 2872
4. 2891
Es. 39
Sd. 15.9
Avg. 2892
Might push it to .060 jump and if that doesn't work it's on to something else I guess.
These groups looking better.
More jump seems to be helping…yes, maybe try .060 or even .065 to see if it tightens up even more…couple random questions:
1). Are you keeping your cheek weld for all four shots or coming off between shots for any reason?
2). Do you have (or can you get) any H1000?
I have no experience with magpro but ive always got my win mags/300 norma shoot clovers or one-hole with a well developed load using H1k…
Agree on h1000 or h4350
I break cheek weld each shot. Study the shot, note the data/impact on target. I'm not in much of a hurry usually.
I've got maybe 3-4 rounds worth of h1000 left. I bought a pound with my first barrel years ago because it seemed to be the go to powder for the winmag. I never had much luck with it but I guess I haven't had much luck with this rifle at all. Been a real head scratcher. Actually walked away from it for a good 2-3 years.
The h1000 always left a blackish brown greasy substance in the bore I found when I cleaned it so I never went back to it.
I opted for magpro because it's right next to imr4831 in burn rate and I'd had some good velocity and es with the 4831. Couldn't find it anywhere and that's when I discovered the magpro. Like I said it's real close to 4831 but it actually has a hotter flame temp than 4831. Not sure that's relevant but there it is. Maybe harder on barrels ?
Dont break cheek weld, especially when shooting groups with a magnum (but really any rifle); that could be partially contributing to what you’re seeing on target. No need to study the shots until all done shooting the group. Take your time just keep on the gun until done.
Never had any greasy substances on any of my rifles with any powder…perhaps something’s in the bore or chamber thats producing it?
All that said, id try one or two more groups at either .060 or .065 and see if it gets noticably better.
We'll push it back a bit more and see what comes of it. May take me a couple days. Just started raining here and it's supposed to rain all day tomorrow. Low 40's and rain. No thanks. And I may be going hunting this weekend.
I could probably setup on the kitchen table and open a window but the wife may not be a fan lol.
I wonder what that 300 would sound like in the kitchen
I could probably setup on the kitchen table and open a window but the wife may not be a fan lol.
I wonder what that 300 would sound like in the kitchen
Well I've been away from this project for a while but I got a day off today and I actually got to do a little shooting.
I tried a couple of the loads suggested with h1000 and the 215 hybrid and they were really good loads. But, they were way to slow for me to want to do anything with them. Here they are.
I finally found a decent load with magpro and the 215 also. Not real fond of the es in this load but it's just a shade over half moa and I'm running low on hybrids so (48 left) so I'm just going to load it and kill stuff with it like it is. Here's the target.
Being that I'm running low on 215's I found some 212 eld-x, so I picked up 200 of them to try. I recently watched the Eric cortina podcast with the guy that came up with the ocw method so I started fresh using this method. I didn't think I would care to shoot it round Robin style but I actually liked it. Kind of takes the pressure off making that last shot of the group. The h1000 load was testing his theory on the 3% increments. In my case, the 76gr h1k loaf plus 3% coming out to 78.28gr. Didn't really hold true for me. I may ad 1.5% to it as he suggests and try again. I've got just enough h1k to load three or four more rounds so I'll probably just save my bullets. Anyway, here's the target of the ocw with the 212's. I think I know where I'm headed but I'm curious to hear everybody's opinion on it. I probably won't pursue the 76.2gr load, it's getting a tad warm. Ejector mark on one case and the extractor bumps pretty good. Everything else came out with zero effort.
I tried a couple of the loads suggested with h1000 and the 215 hybrid and they were really good loads. But, they were way to slow for me to want to do anything with them. Here they are.
I finally found a decent load with magpro and the 215 also. Not real fond of the es in this load but it's just a shade over half moa and I'm running low on hybrids so (48 left) so I'm just going to load it and kill stuff with it like it is. Here's the target.
Being that I'm running low on 215's I found some 212 eld-x, so I picked up 200 of them to try. I recently watched the Eric cortina podcast with the guy that came up with the ocw method so I started fresh using this method. I didn't think I would care to shoot it round Robin style but I actually liked it. Kind of takes the pressure off making that last shot of the group. The h1000 load was testing his theory on the 3% increments. In my case, the 76gr h1k loaf plus 3% coming out to 78.28gr. Didn't really hold true for me. I may ad 1.5% to it as he suggests and try again. I've got just enough h1k to load three or four more rounds so I'll probably just save my bullets. Anyway, here's the target of the ocw with the 212's. I think I know where I'm headed but I'm curious to hear everybody's opinion on it. I probably won't pursue the 76.2gr load, it's getting a tad warm. Ejector mark on one case and the extractor bumps pretty good. Everything else came out with zero effort.
