I was wondering if your barrel on your rifle is stamped for 5.56 nato then do you use that data? I know you can shoot .223 in nato rifles. I know that nato cases are thicker, but what if your using winchester brass? I dont wanna load inaccurately or possible harm my rifle barrel. So if i am using 55gr zmax with winchester brass what data would be the right one? Also whats your opinion on primers. I heard you should use remington or cci for harder cups. What about federal? What about wolf? thanks for you advise
- Thread starter wyosniper
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Re: Reloading for AR15
Whichever works best in your rifle. You may go past both max loads and be fine. On the other hand you may not make it to their max before you reach your rifles max.
Most load books list the heavy 60+gr pills for the 5.56 and the smaller pills for .223. It's all the same just work up your loads and you will be fine.
Use whatever primer you like also. Lots of people have had good luck with Wolf and Tulu primers and the are the cheapest out there. Don't sweat the "harder/thicker" cups I have never heard or seen a proven slam fire.
I use standard CCI in my AR just because it's the cheapest I can get locally to me. (1 up for Walmart having reloading supplies)
Whichever works best in your rifle. You may go past both max loads and be fine. On the other hand you may not make it to their max before you reach your rifles max.
Most load books list the heavy 60+gr pills for the 5.56 and the smaller pills for .223. It's all the same just work up your loads and you will be fine.
Use whatever primer you like also. Lots of people have had good luck with Wolf and Tulu primers and the are the cheapest out there. Don't sweat the "harder/thicker" cups I have never heard or seen a proven slam fire.
I use standard CCI in my AR just because it's the cheapest I can get locally to me. (1 up for Walmart having reloading supplies)
Re: Reloading for AR15
You have the components of a very accurate load from an AR. Load the 50gr Zmax's on top of 24gr, 24.5, and 25gr of Varget, Benchmark, and H4895, and load them to 2.250" COAL. This has proven to be a very accurate load in all my AR's. Even BLC-2 works great, as well as H335. Even my 8 twist barrels love this load, and it is my go to load when ground hog hunting at 300yds or less, even though I ranged one last week at 407yds the 50gr did a job on him.
You have the components of a very accurate load from an AR. Load the 50gr Zmax's on top of 24gr, 24.5, and 25gr of Varget, Benchmark, and H4895, and load them to 2.250" COAL. This has proven to be a very accurate load in all my AR's. Even BLC-2 works great, as well as H335. Even my 8 twist barrels love this load, and it is my go to load when ground hog hunting at 300yds or less, even though I ranged one last week at 407yds the 50gr did a job on him.
Re: Reloading for AR15
Make sure you full-length re-size, and that your re-sized cases will fully chamber in your firearm.
The above charge weights mentioned are typical in the .223 Rem for AR15's.
Beware of Lake City brass that you don't know its origin, since brass fired through the SAW stretches much more than an AR, and often case head separates on its 2nd load, equaling a kaboom in the AR.
I only load Lake City that I personally fired from a factory 1st round, as it is great brass, but machinegun brass can ruin your AR15 permanently.
Also make doubly sure that your primers are fully-seated. I visually inspect all my primed cases and finished cartridges to make sure the primers are flush.
The Remington 6 1/2 primers have been known to slam-fire, and I know a guy who claims he's seen it happen on the line at CMP events.
I use Remington 7 1/2 as my SR primer without issue.
Make sure you full-length re-size, and that your re-sized cases will fully chamber in your firearm.
The above charge weights mentioned are typical in the .223 Rem for AR15's.
Beware of Lake City brass that you don't know its origin, since brass fired through the SAW stretches much more than an AR, and often case head separates on its 2nd load, equaling a kaboom in the AR.
I only load Lake City that I personally fired from a factory 1st round, as it is great brass, but machinegun brass can ruin your AR15 permanently.
Also make doubly sure that your primers are fully-seated. I visually inspect all my primed cases and finished cartridges to make sure the primers are flush.
The Remington 6 1/2 primers have been known to slam-fire, and I know a guy who claims he's seen it happen on the line at CMP events.
I use Remington 7 1/2 as my SR primer without issue.
Re: Reloading for AR15
First, if you dont have one...get a reloading manual. I recommend the Hornady loading manual based on your above comments. Plus, that manual has "Service Rifle" specs as well as straight up .223 and 5.56 loading info
First, if you dont have one...get a reloading manual. I recommend the Hornady loading manual based on your above comments. Plus, that manual has "Service Rifle" specs as well as straight up .223 and 5.56 loading info
Re: Reloading for AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: loki*hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, if you dont have one...get a reloading manual. I recommend the Hornady loading manual based on your above comments. Plus, that manual has "Service Rifle" specs as well as straight up .223 and 5.56 loading info </div></div>
+1, this
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: loki*hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, if you dont have one...get a reloading manual. I recommend the Hornady loading manual based on your above comments. Plus, that manual has "Service Rifle" specs as well as straight up .223 and 5.56 loading info </div></div>
+1, this
Re: Reloading for AR15
Fiocchi small rifle primers will slam fire, at least in my AR.
It cost me a shit ton of clothes for my wife. I was loading my rifle before putting it up and had a slam fire. It went through the wall of the closet, through a bunch of the wifes' clothes, and out the back of the closet into the garage. That copper jacket shreds off into a crap ton of tiny pieces, puts a ton of holes in the clothes, and the lead core keeps on going.
Not to mention, it is loud as shit indoors, and sheetrock puts off a fine cloud of white smoke. You can patch and paint the holes, but you cannot sew the holes in all that shit before she comes home. LOL
Box of Truth, The 75 gr Hornady HPBT over 25.3 gr RL 15 will penetrate the shit out of stuff at close range.
EDIT: No I did NOT take pictures of one of my finest hours.
Fiocchi small rifle primers will slam fire, at least in my AR.
It cost me a shit ton of clothes for my wife. I was loading my rifle before putting it up and had a slam fire. It went through the wall of the closet, through a bunch of the wifes' clothes, and out the back of the closet into the garage. That copper jacket shreds off into a crap ton of tiny pieces, puts a ton of holes in the clothes, and the lead core keeps on going.
Box of Truth, The 75 gr Hornady HPBT over 25.3 gr RL 15 will penetrate the shit out of stuff at close range.
EDIT: No I did NOT take pictures of one of my finest hours.
Re: Reloading for AR15
I do have a hornady manual and i seen it has both service rifle and just .223, so which data would you use for a barrel marked with 5.56 nato? I see the service one is basically the same except max col. I am asking which data should you use?
I do have a hornady manual and i seen it has both service rifle and just .223, so which data would you use for a barrel marked with 5.56 nato? I see the service one is basically the same except max col. I am asking which data should you use?
Re: Reloading for AR15
You should obviously start low and work up loads, for either .223 or 5.56. I generally load to mag length (2.25-2.26") and watch for pressure signs. A chrono is a must for the most accurate data. I interchange my loads between .223 and 5.56 brass while watching velocities and pressure signs in my White Oak SPR Match barrel.
Max velocity/pressure loads don't necessarily mean the most accuracy; you should do some ladder testing and see where your accuracy nodes are. I've found some of my loads to be at the high end of the velocity/pressure levels, some at the low/mid side.
Take a look over at the "Reloading Depot" part of the forum to get an idea of where to start. You can probably find some loads in guns similar to yours that are at safe operating levels.
You should obviously start low and work up loads, for either .223 or 5.56. I generally load to mag length (2.25-2.26") and watch for pressure signs. A chrono is a must for the most accurate data. I interchange my loads between .223 and 5.56 brass while watching velocities and pressure signs in my White Oak SPR Match barrel.
Max velocity/pressure loads don't necessarily mean the most accuracy; you should do some ladder testing and see where your accuracy nodes are. I've found some of my loads to be at the high end of the velocity/pressure levels, some at the low/mid side.
Take a look over at the "Reloading Depot" part of the forum to get an idea of where to start. You can probably find some loads in guns similar to yours that are at safe operating levels.
Re: Reloading for AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battlestick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fiocchi small rifle primers will slam fire, at least in my AR.
It cost me a shit ton of clothes for my wife. I was loading my rifle before putting it up and had a slam fire. It went through the wall of the closet, through a bunch of the wifes' clothes, and out the back of the closet into the garage. That copper jacket shreds off into a crap ton of tiny pieces, puts a ton of holes in the clothes, and the lead core keeps on going. Not to mention, it is loud as shit indoors, and sheetrock puts off a fine cloud of white smoke. You can patch and paint the holes, but you cannot sew the holes in all that shit before she comes home. LOL
Box of Truth, The 75 gr Hornady HPBT over 25.3 gr RL 15 will penetrate the shit out of stuff at close range.
EDIT: No I did NOT take pictures of one of my finest hours. </div></div>
I gotta tell you, the free entertainment on this site is so quality, I never really leave without a genuine laugh. Thanks for keeping it real. I'll stick with my Remmy 7 1/2's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battlestick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fiocchi small rifle primers will slam fire, at least in my AR.
It cost me a shit ton of clothes for my wife. I was loading my rifle before putting it up and had a slam fire. It went through the wall of the closet, through a bunch of the wifes' clothes, and out the back of the closet into the garage. That copper jacket shreds off into a crap ton of tiny pieces, puts a ton of holes in the clothes, and the lead core keeps on going.
Box of Truth, The 75 gr Hornady HPBT over 25.3 gr RL 15 will penetrate the shit out of stuff at close range.
EDIT: No I did NOT take pictures of one of my finest hours. </div></div>
I gotta tell you, the free entertainment on this site is so quality, I never really leave without a genuine laugh. Thanks for keeping it real. I'll stick with my Remmy 7 1/2's.
Re: Reloading for AR15
I have used all types of brass including Winchester in my AR's. I found the most accurate load is 52 gr SMK's and 26.2 grains of W748. Safe moderate load for 223 or 5,56. Shoots 3/8" 5 shoot groups in my Remy 1/9 twist PSS and about the same in my Noveske 1/7 N$ Afghan model with the other AR's I own under an inch.
I have used all types of brass including Winchester in my AR's. I found the most accurate load is 52 gr SMK's and 26.2 grains of W748. Safe moderate load for 223 or 5,56. Shoots 3/8" 5 shoot groups in my Remy 1/9 twist PSS and about the same in my Noveske 1/7 N$ Afghan model with the other AR's I own under an inch.
Re: Reloading for AR15
You can shoot either 223 or 5.56 if your barrel is marked 5.56.I like CCI 41 primers for the added insurance.I also like H335 powder in most all of my loads.It's plenty accurate and burns very clean.I would recommend that you use a small base sizer die to resize your cases so you don't have any chambering issues.
You can shoot either 223 or 5.56 if your barrel is marked 5.56.I like CCI 41 primers for the added insurance.I also like H335 powder in most all of my loads.It's plenty accurate and burns very clean.I would recommend that you use a small base sizer die to resize your cases so you don't have any chambering issues.
Re: Reloading for AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mateofeo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should obviously start low and work up loads, for either .223 or 5.56. I generally load to mag length (2.25-2.26") and watch for pressure signs. A chrono is a must for the most accurate data. I interchange my loads between .223 and 5.56 brass while watching velocities and pressure signs in my White Oak SPR Match barrel.</div></div>First of all, most ARs are bad at showing pressure signs before blowing primers. Derrick Martin used to say: Load until you start blanking primers, then back-off half a grain. I say: Watch your primers; make sure they are not flattened and flowing. Second, absolutely do not 'start low' with ball powders such as H335 and Ball C2.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mateofeo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should obviously start low and work up loads, for either .223 or 5.56. I generally load to mag length (2.25-2.26") and watch for pressure signs. A chrono is a must for the most accurate data. I interchange my loads between .223 and 5.56 brass while watching velocities and pressure signs in my White Oak SPR Match barrel.</div></div>First of all, most ARs are bad at showing pressure signs before blowing primers. Derrick Martin used to say: Load until you start blanking primers, then back-off half a grain. I say: Watch your primers; make sure they are not flattened and flowing. Second, absolutely do not 'start low' with ball powders such as H335 and Ball C2.
Re: Reloading for AR15
I use the CCI primers, have never had an issue... Ill keep using them until I do. I typically have been using Varget in my .223, but I think I am going to switch to XBR 8208 because in my latest tests it was more consistently accurate for me almost all the way through the charge range. I guess you could load for either, but I think you may be able to find better use for the extra case capacity in the .223.
I use the CCI primers, have never had an issue... Ill keep using them until I do. I typically have been using Varget in my .223, but I think I am going to switch to XBR 8208 because in my latest tests it was more consistently accurate for me almost all the way through the charge range. I guess you could load for either, but I think you may be able to find better use for the extra case capacity in the .223.
Re: Reloading for AR15
It was mentioned before, but definatly full legnth resize. A case guage is worth its weight in gold. I case guage everythigng that comes off my press, even handgun ammo. That I know, there shouldn't be chambering issues.
It was mentioned before, but definatly full legnth resize. A case guage is worth its weight in gold. I case guage everythigng that comes off my press, even handgun ammo. That I know, there shouldn't be chambering issues.
Re: Reloading for AR15
Someone said that you should make sure it chambers after resizing. Do you just cycle it through to check?
Someone said that you should make sure it chambers after resizing. Do you just cycle it through to check?
Re: Reloading for AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Axshon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone said that you should make sure it chambers after resizing. Do you just cycle it through to check? </div></div>
You can do it that way but will have problems cycling it without a projo in it. I use a Wilson case length gauge after resizing and if it checks out OK continue the reloading process. I've never had a problem if cases check out on the Wilson gauge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Axshon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone said that you should make sure it chambers after resizing. Do you just cycle it through to check? </div></div>
You can do it that way but will have problems cycling it without a projo in it. I use a Wilson case length gauge after resizing and if it checks out OK continue the reloading process. I've never had a problem if cases check out on the Wilson gauge.
Re: Reloading for AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Axshon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone said that you should make sure it chambers after resizing. Do you just cycle it through to check? </div></div>
Once your dies are set up you should not have to check. I check if they fit in the mag, if they fit there on setup than they will chamber unless there is a headspace issue. There should not be a headspace issue if your dies are set up correctly. I recently bought a Hornady headspace gauge for like $30 and I no longer have to guess how much "bump" I need.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Axshon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone said that you should make sure it chambers after resizing. Do you just cycle it through to check? </div></div>
Once your dies are set up you should not have to check. I check if they fit in the mag, if they fit there on setup than they will chamber unless there is a headspace issue. There should not be a headspace issue if your dies are set up correctly. I recently bought a Hornady headspace gauge for like $30 and I no longer have to guess how much "bump" I need.
Re: Reloading for AR15
Ok, so nothing out of the ordinary there. I don't have a case length guage. I do it the old fashioned way: caliper on each case after FL resize, cut down if they are too long, throw out if they are too short. I was just thinking there might be something else AR-related that I wasn't aware of.
Ok, so nothing out of the ordinary there. I don't have a case length guage. I do it the old fashioned way: caliper on each case after FL resize, cut down if they are too long, throw out if they are too short. I was just thinking there might be something else AR-related that I wasn't aware of.
Re: Reloading for AR15
You said you throw them out if they're too short.I use RCBS X-dies for my 223 rounds,and they (RCBS)recommend trimming .010" below book min.(1.740").I've never had any issues with them at this length.FYI.
You said you throw them out if they're too short.I use RCBS X-dies for my 223 rounds,and they (RCBS)recommend trimming .010" below book min.(1.740").I've never had any issues with them at this length.FYI.
Re: Reloading for AR15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wyosniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was wondering if your barrel on your rifle is stamped for 5.56 nato then do you use that data? I know you can shoot .223 in nato rifles. I know that nato cases are thicker, but what if your using winchester brass? I dont wanna load inaccurately or possible harm my rifle barrel. So if i am using 55gr zmax with winchester brass what data would be the right one? Also whats your opinion on primers. I heard you should use remington or cci for harder cups. What about federal? What about wolf? thanks for you advise</div></div>
Mil brass isn't always thicker. Some of the thickest (heaviest) brass I've encountered is South African PMP brass, and it's not mil brass. The easiest way to measure case capacity, which is related to thickness, is to measure how much water the case will hold.
5.56 load data is not very common. I think I've seen some from Accurate Arms. Most credible sources list .223 Rem data only. Remember that genuine 5.56 ammo uses crimped primers, and most reloaders are unable to crimp their primers at home. You run the risk of blown primers if you load 5.56 without a crimped primer.
The rule for loading anything is to start at the minimum load listed (no lower) and to work your way up. If your data gives max only, it should include a note to back off 10% of max as a starting load. Each manual is different - read the manual to find out what is safe for that caliber and set of data.
Also, some manuals differentiate between bolt gun loads and semi-auto loads. Bolt gun loads do not have to worry about generating enough gas to cycle the action, so they might have a lower minimum charge for a given powder.
If you have a load for Winchester brass that is admittedly mid-range, you are PROBABLY safe if you switch to Remington, LC, or Federal brass, but that is not a guarantee. If you are running a max load in any caliber and make any change in component, reduce the load and work your way back up as a component change can cause pressure to increase.
Why are you chasing 5.56 loads? There are plenty of .223 loads that are accurate and plenty of .224 bullets that will perform well on critters at .223 velocities.
The higher pressures seen in 5.56 loads also have a tendency to shorten brass life. They also batter the rifle a more than .223 loads do.
As for the military's use of 5.56, their needs and want are different from my needs and wants, nor am I am subject to the constraints the military is.
For your 55gr Z-Max bullets, I'd look first at load data that uses Z-Max or V-max bullets. A call to Hornady will confirm if V-Max and Z-Max bullets can use the same data, and if any modifications are necessary. If such data is unavailable, I'd look at data for 55gr bullets, but starting at the minimum and working my way up until I find the accuracy I want, or pressure signs are seen.
In short, I see little reason for the hand loader to seek out and use 5.56 loads. Just MHO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wyosniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was wondering if your barrel on your rifle is stamped for 5.56 nato then do you use that data? I know you can shoot .223 in nato rifles. I know that nato cases are thicker, but what if your using winchester brass? I dont wanna load inaccurately or possible harm my rifle barrel. So if i am using 55gr zmax with winchester brass what data would be the right one? Also whats your opinion on primers. I heard you should use remington or cci for harder cups. What about federal? What about wolf? thanks for you advise</div></div>
Mil brass isn't always thicker. Some of the thickest (heaviest) brass I've encountered is South African PMP brass, and it's not mil brass. The easiest way to measure case capacity, which is related to thickness, is to measure how much water the case will hold.
5.56 load data is not very common. I think I've seen some from Accurate Arms. Most credible sources list .223 Rem data only. Remember that genuine 5.56 ammo uses crimped primers, and most reloaders are unable to crimp their primers at home. You run the risk of blown primers if you load 5.56 without a crimped primer.
The rule for loading anything is to start at the minimum load listed (no lower) and to work your way up. If your data gives max only, it should include a note to back off 10% of max as a starting load. Each manual is different - read the manual to find out what is safe for that caliber and set of data.
Also, some manuals differentiate between bolt gun loads and semi-auto loads. Bolt gun loads do not have to worry about generating enough gas to cycle the action, so they might have a lower minimum charge for a given powder.
If you have a load for Winchester brass that is admittedly mid-range, you are PROBABLY safe if you switch to Remington, LC, or Federal brass, but that is not a guarantee. If you are running a max load in any caliber and make any change in component, reduce the load and work your way back up as a component change can cause pressure to increase.
Why are you chasing 5.56 loads? There are plenty of .223 loads that are accurate and plenty of .224 bullets that will perform well on critters at .223 velocities.
The higher pressures seen in 5.56 loads also have a tendency to shorten brass life. They also batter the rifle a more than .223 loads do.
As for the military's use of 5.56, their needs and want are different from my needs and wants, nor am I am subject to the constraints the military is.
For your 55gr Z-Max bullets, I'd look first at load data that uses Z-Max or V-max bullets. A call to Hornady will confirm if V-Max and Z-Max bullets can use the same data, and if any modifications are necessary. If such data is unavailable, I'd look at data for 55gr bullets, but starting at the minimum and working my way up until I find the accuracy I want, or pressure signs are seen.
In short, I see little reason for the hand loader to seek out and use 5.56 loads. Just MHO.
