Reloading process under lights - help me get better please

[alfmoonspace]

Never used an arbor or necked turned - What am I missing here or what should I be doing differently to get more consistent ammo?

Just ordered a collet die. Waiting on @Dthomas3523 review on the Henderson . What else can I do?

Have AMP - CPS - FX120i.

 

[Tokay444]

What’s inconsistent about your ammo?

 

[alfmoonspace]

Neck tension maybe? I would like a power trimmer since it takes me forever to trim. Powder charges are sensitive using my scale, maybe a Prometheus in the future? Just nitpicking I guess.

Looking to streamline or see if there is something that I need to do.

 

[chaosgadoury]

1a Wet tumble brass. This gets everything super clean prior to annealing.

11a. Dry tumble in corn cob to remove the lube.

Using the Auto Trickler I got much better SDs after getting the Area 419 Base plate and cup. Using the original gave a larger variance in charge weights based on exact placement of the cup. With the 419 stuff it was much better.

I neck turned all of my brass after first firing and after 18 reloads have returned the necks. It took a while and do not know if it made a difference because I have made other changes to the process in the last 18 months that did show major improvements (AMP/Auto Trickler/Area 419 Base)

 

[Dthomas3523]

Go ahead and get the Henderson. It came in today. For high volume turning and comfort, it can’t be beat.

 

[hlee]

The proof is in the pudding, as it were. How do your loads shoot? Are you happy with the precision? What about the velocity, SD and ES? What's the sample size? You can really get wrapped around the axle reloading. Do you enjoy reloading? Or just shooting? But, before someone says what can be made better, what is wrong?

 

[Steel head]

I kinda like turning my brass as it does seem to make getting a decent vertical at distance easier.

If I was just shooting out to 1000 I wouldn’t bother.

I only trim my brass after first firing then maybe every 5th or so loading.

I also only clean cases if they get muddy or something.

 

[Tokay444]

Neck tension maybe? Well is it, or isn’t it?
I don’t know what it is you’re asking.
If you tell ya what’s wrong, we can try and help, but you haven’t highlighted what your issue is.

 

[Steel head]

Neck tension maybe? Well is it, or isn’t it?
I don’t know what it is you’re asking.
If you tell ya what’s wrong, we can try and help, but you haven’t highlighted what your issue is.

I think it’s a classic case of overcomplexitus.

 

[alfmoonspace]

Your right - making my process quicker would be my biggest issue (solved with a power trimmer).

Sometimes issues might be apparent without knowing I have an issue, hence asking you guys what should I cut or what I should add.

Why use an arbor or neck turn if you don’t NEED to? My CPS is consistent and quick but do I NEED it?

SD’s have been within reason, no crazy vertical stringing.

Neck tension is pretty consistent at .002 - maybe part is how much pressure it takes to seat the bullet.

 

[Tokay444]

So we still have no data, but we’re still supposed to decipher your problem.
“SD is within reason.” What the hell does that mean?!

 

[Tokay444]

So far the only relevant data you’ve given is you bump your shoulders .002”, and seat your bullets .010” off the lands. What all that equates to in your rifle seems to be a secret for some reason.

 

[straightshooter1]

Never used an arbor or necked turned - What am I missing here or what should I be doing differently to get more consistent ammo?

Just ordered a collet die. Waiting on @Dthomas3523 review on the Henderson . What else can I do?

Have AMP - CPS - FX120i.

Am not sure what you actually mean by "more consistent"??? What kind of consistency are you getting now?

You're already got some very good equipment. Neck turning will help some and the Henderson Tri-Trim is a fine tool. It'll do a great job (fast) and probably last a life time.

Looking at you procedure list, there's just a couple of things I feel could improve your results. After you anneal, I'd run the brass through the tumbler using rice (that's what I do now and it works quite well and I only run it for about 2 hrs.). Doing to removes the outside oxidation left from the annealing making for smoother sizing even though a lube is used (particularly for the inside of the neck.

You didn't say what the setup is for your sizing, like . . . are you using an expander ball in the die? If so, I'd recommend not doing so and it very often induces runout in the neck that's not there after a firing. So, use your sizing die (hopefully, not a bushing die as they too tend to induce runout in the neck) without the expander ball and afterward run an appropriate size Expander Mandrel through the neck to get neck tension your after (something like .002). Though a neck isn't turned, an Expander Mandrel will make the interior diameter of the neck uniform and move the irregularities to the outside. This all minimized runout.

Apparently, you're not uniforming primer pockets and this can be a substantial issue depending who's brass you're using. Quality brass will have less variance. If you're only seating the primer to the depth of the primer, you're not getting any primer crush. Once will get better consistency with some primer crush so that the primer anvil is firmly against the bottom of the primer pocket. .003 of primer crush is what many do. Measure the depth of your primer pockets and seat the primer .003 further than the primer's height.

I often get very good accuracy by seating .010 off the lands, but it all depends on the bullet and the particular powder you're using. It's not usual to find best accuracy from .025 to .050 off the lands. One just needs to experiment to see just does best. There's a series are articles here that has a lot of great information about this.

More improvement can be realized by sorting the brass by weight and use the few outliers for sighters. Also, measuring and sorting bullets from base to ojive (BTO) to get consistent seating depths. Usually with quality bullets, this may not be necessary, but it good to at least sample your lot of bullets to be sure there's not a significant variance. If there is, then sort them by +/- .002. or less.

 

[alfmoonspace]

I am mostly looking at the streamline my process .

I can post individual data for the rifles I shoot, no problem. I don't have super concern with any of my loads TBH. Just wanted to get other eyes on what I do (or don't do).

 

[Steel head]

I am mostly looking at the streamline my process .

I can post individual data for the rifles I shoot, no problem. I don't have super concern with any of my loads TBH. Just wanted to get other eyes on what I do (or don't do).

I’d just run your program and when you’re comfortable with it start modify/trimming stages and see what your results tell you.
Don’t experiment without a stable program and consistent results.

 

[alfmoonspace]

Cool, @Tokay444 your right man, sorry I just pasted my onenote list that I update now and then here to see if you guys see anything glaringly wrong with my process. I didn't list any data since my data fluctuates based on what rifle I am using (I am thinking high level) lol.

@Dthomas3523 I am going to get one ordered ASAP.

@Steel head for sure, appreciate the feedback.

@straightshooter1 I used to run my tumbler twice but got lazy, maybe I will start that up again. I should have been more detailed in my original post. I play around with primer crush (I made that high level annotation so I can quickly remember if by some case I walk away from shooting from a bit. I can quickly remember what to do with primers). With the CPS, it takes the guess work out and I just + or - my seating depth with one click up or down.

I have my dies honed by Forster and I use a co-ax mostly for rifle. FL dies from Forster mainly and Redding for my 7-300.

I wanted to cut my time down not add lol but maybe checking my brass would help. Lapua brass mostly and I used to uniform my pockets but again, got lazy.

Any reason to use an arbor press?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

So you sort of want to fix something that may or may not be broken? With in reason?

What cartridge and how many do you do at one time?

 

[alfmoonspace]

So you sort of want to fix something that may or may not be broken? With in reason?

What cartridge and how many do you do at one time?

Good question man, I guess within reason to me is an ES under 10. Different for everybody right? One might be happy with lower or higher.

I stick to one or two calibers within match season.

 

[straightshooter1]

With the CPS, it takes the guess work out and I just + or - my seating depth with one click up or down.

That's a very fine tool and can give you really consistent seating of your primer rather fast, IF . . . you've got consistent depth in your primer pockets.

I have my dies honed by Forster and I use a co-ax mostly for rifle. FL dies from Forster mainly and Redding for my 7-300.

I also use a honed Forster FL sizing die (without the expander ball) so that there's only a small amount of expansion when I run my expander mandrel through the neck. Runout remains what I get after the cases were fired.

I wanted to cut my time down not add lol but maybe checking my brass would help. Lapua brass mostly and I used to uniform my pockets but again, got lazy.

It's an operation you don't have to do but once (or maybe once in a great while). I use a pocket uniformer to clean the pockets, so they stay consistent over the life of the cases.

Any reason to use an arbor press?

While I love my co-ax press for my processing, I find I can get a much better feel for the seating resistance using my little arbor press with a Wilson seater so I can set aside those that substantially different. I've toyed with the idea of getting a 20th Century press with the pneumatic gauge to actually see that resistance, but going by feel seems to work pretty well for me.

 

[alfmoonspace]

Thank you guys for the feedback - really appreciate it. Nice to know (even posting my first post while putting kids to bed) that there are knowledgable and helpful guys here.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Good question man, I guess within reason to me is an ES under 10. Different for everybody right? One might be happy with lower or higher.

I stick to one or two calibers within match season.

Yes, and everyone has a different opinion on methods of reloading and what works for them so its a little confusing on what you are actually asking.

You already have way better equipment and spend more time than I do. Im personally content with ~10 ES and look for ways to save time so I can load more and shoot more. That said using a 3in1 tool that trims/chamfer/debur has saved me the most time. That was my least favorite step. You'll enjoy the Henderson.

And typically anything that is going to make ammo more consistent is going to be more time-consuming. There's really no short cuts.

 

[Dthomas3523]

A consistent 10 ES is gonna be pretty hard.

 

[Tokay444]

“What cartridge do you shoot?”
“One or two a season.”
Fucking this retarded shit. Unsubbed.