I want to start with my own equipment. I've used buddy's stuff in the past but am pretty novice and dont own anything for reloading. I would like to know what the best overall value for a decent setup that wont need upgrading would be considering used/new equipment etc. also, the two cartridges i shoot most right now are 6.5 cm and .308, so any recommendations for dies for both would be helpful as well
- Thread starter manscout
- Start date
Forester co ax
Feeding bushing dies W/ micro seater
Chargemaster
Good calipers
Not the cheapest but will make great ammo.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Feeding bushing dies W/ micro seater
Chargemaster
Good calipers
Not the cheapest but will make great ammo.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think you will find other threads that cover this topic. But my advice would be almost the exact opposite of what Kadams said. Co-ax is a cadillac, not a value play. Find a used single stage press and you'll be fine. Rock Chucker would be my preference but Hornady is ok. I think a micrometer is a luxury and not a necessity on a seating die. I sort of agree on a Chargemaster, it is a great device but for a "value" setup . . . I dont know. I personally think CMs will be obsolete in the near future with the recent developments in auto dispensing with very accurate digital scales. I dont know what's meant by good calipers. I have a pair of $150 mitutoyo calipers and about 3 other pairs of Harbor Freight calipers ($20 maybe). They read the same. I assume "Feeding" is a typo and Kadams meant "Redding" - and if so I'm with Kadams on that. But bushing dies are not necessary and can create excessive runout. If you're not turning your necks, you probably dont need or want a bushing die. Dont get me wrong, bushing dies are great. I use them, after turning necks. But nitride bushings are $30 a piece, and you'll probably need a bunch of them. (If you just have one bushing, what's the point?). I've had great luck with Whidden full length sizing dies.
Heck, the Lee cast press is a great piece of equipment, just doesnt have any bells and whistles, it can still churn out straight ammo though. A rock chucker goes on some serious sales from time to time though. Just avoid the lower end small challenger or partner presses and youll be just fine.
For dies you dont have to get the cheapest but you also dont have to get the most expensive. I have several reddings, forster and hornady dies and as far as sizing for non special chambers go they are all mostly the same. I cant complain about any of them. The seaters are where I worry about. I thought about going cheap on these but in the time since have updated all of them to micrometer seaters. Its just so much nicer to just turn a knob then have to worry about unlocking a ring and then crudely adjusting and relocking only to find out you didnt adjust it to how much you were hoping for.
The hornady headspace and bullet comparator sets are the best value and most useful for measuring compared to dedicated case gauges.
I love my charge master and will never be without an auto scale again I got it for like 225, find it on sale. Not exactly a value though, a cheap rcbs 5-10 beam and a trickler will be more than adequate, it will just require your active participation in that step compare tot he auto scale where you just press a button and look away.
For value I would go with a worlds finest trimmer in each cartridge just so you dont have to readjust the cutters to switch between calibers but if you only do big batches and not small batches then that might be less important.
Really any caliper will work, I got a mitutoyo new for 85 bucks and I can vouch for it being way better than a hornady but I used the hornady for years. Get a digital so you can zero it easily unlike a dial which requires you to subtract the comparators if you dont want that included in your numbers.
Really anything that isnt the absolute bottom level will work well enough. You dont have to drop big coin to make good ammo, the big coin just helps extract the last 3% of performance or do it way quicker. I bought a little digital franklin scale in between my beam and now chargemaster and it was a waste for 25 bucks, it was always a little different (+/- .1 gr) from the beam which I knew to be consistent. And to boot it didnt pick up on trickling and small amounts of change so it was less responsive than a beam and slowed my process down by my having to pick the pan up and shuffle it around.
For dies you dont have to get the cheapest but you also dont have to get the most expensive. I have several reddings, forster and hornady dies and as far as sizing for non special chambers go they are all mostly the same. I cant complain about any of them. The seaters are where I worry about. I thought about going cheap on these but in the time since have updated all of them to micrometer seaters. Its just so much nicer to just turn a knob then have to worry about unlocking a ring and then crudely adjusting and relocking only to find out you didnt adjust it to how much you were hoping for.
The hornady headspace and bullet comparator sets are the best value and most useful for measuring compared to dedicated case gauges.
I love my charge master and will never be without an auto scale again I got it for like 225, find it on sale. Not exactly a value though, a cheap rcbs 5-10 beam and a trickler will be more than adequate, it will just require your active participation in that step compare tot he auto scale where you just press a button and look away.
For value I would go with a worlds finest trimmer in each cartridge just so you dont have to readjust the cutters to switch between calibers but if you only do big batches and not small batches then that might be less important.
Really any caliper will work, I got a mitutoyo new for 85 bucks and I can vouch for it being way better than a hornady but I used the hornady for years. Get a digital so you can zero it easily unlike a dial which requires you to subtract the comparators if you dont want that included in your numbers.
Really anything that isnt the absolute bottom level will work well enough. You dont have to drop big coin to make good ammo, the big coin just helps extract the last 3% of performance or do it way quicker. I bought a little digital franklin scale in between my beam and now chargemaster and it was a waste for 25 bucks, it was always a little different (+/- .1 gr) from the beam which I knew to be consistent. And to boot it didnt pick up on trickling and small amounts of change so it was less responsive than a beam and slowed my process down by my having to pick the pan up and shuffle it around.
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Rock Chucker for okn the cheap but you will want LNL bushing because screwing dies in and out just sucks.
Forster Co-Ax if you want a one and done purchase
Chargemaster
Forster FL sizing dies
Forster Ultra Micrometer Seating Dies
Mitutoyo calipers for sure( I had cheap ones that have bad readings that screwed things up. Never again for me)
Hornady Case Comparator Set
Hornady Bullet Comparator Set
Hornady Overall Length Gauge
WFT or Giruad Tri Way trimmers
21st Century Hand Primer
Universal depriming die
He didn't say cheapest. He said a setup that won't need upgrading...
Here is a SH member selling new in the packaging Mitutoyo digital calipers, Hornady Case Comparator Set and Hornady Anvil base for $130 Shipped. If your serious about getting into reloading buy this ASAP before its gone. These three items on Amazon will cost you $176.41.
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...603340-mitutoyo-caliper-hornady-headspace-kit
Forster Co-Ax if you want a one and done purchase
Chargemaster
Forster FL sizing dies
Forster Ultra Micrometer Seating Dies
Mitutoyo calipers for sure( I had cheap ones that have bad readings that screwed things up. Never again for me)
Hornady Case Comparator Set
Hornady Bullet Comparator Set
Hornady Overall Length Gauge
WFT or Giruad Tri Way trimmers
21st Century Hand Primer
Universal depriming die
He didn't say cheapest. He said a setup that won't need upgrading...
Here is a SH member selling new in the packaging Mitutoyo digital calipers, Hornady Case Comparator Set and Hornady Anvil base for $130 Shipped. If your serious about getting into reloading buy this ASAP before its gone. These three items on Amazon will cost you $176.41.
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...603340-mitutoyo-caliper-hornady-headspace-kit
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I appreciate you noticing that padom. I use the word value in the context of bang for the buck. i've learned, similar to most everyone, that buying something twice due to needing to upgrade later is a great way to waste money.
Thanks for all the input here.
Nothing I said would need upgrading, its just not the Cadillac. I would call and coax mitutoyos and anything 21st century luxury, not value.
Dont get me wrong, they are great (!) but I sometimes feel guilty having paid the upcharge for all my crap.
that's exactly what i am asking for. thanks for your opinion.
It's been a while since I loaded any cases up, but the last ones I did were .308 on my rockchucker-II one die at a time.
I went round and round and settled on a fairly simple formula that worked well for me, and in hind sight, would be quite inexpensive.
The rockchucker I had. Find them used or new- the investment is one-time on this. Lee seems fine, and less expensive, but whatever you get, go cast iron, not welded steel or aluminum. (I have no idea what is "hot" these days)
Get a good quality neck sizing collet die. I think mine is a Forester... I don't remember but what ever it is, it should be adjustable. That accounts for wear, and you can make it perfect for your needs. A full length sizer if you have brand new brass or brass not fired in the rifle you are loading for.
So, this all requires a good measurement device. Consistency=accuracy, and vice versa. Don't get a harbor freight caliper. Spend the (less than a case of ammo cost) for a decent caliper. I have had good luck (for decades) with Mitutoyo. But there are other brands that are fine as well. Spend what you are comfortable with, but if you can't find the country of origin on a map- avoid it. A zero reset is nice but since you are logging everything you do for each load in your log book, start dimensions are not a big deal to note as well...
I use the RCBS adjustable powder 'dump' set a little light and then top up with a trickler onto a triple-beam RCBS balance. Yes, it's tedious but Consistency=accuracy. At the time digital stuff was not repeatable enough. Maybe it's better now, and I expect anything "good" is going to be expensive. And I always re-zero the balance every 20 or so rounds, and reset it to my target weight. (don't move the balance once set either) Yes, it's a bit of "wasted" time but Consistency=accuracy.
Hand seat your primers. You need to feel that.
Fire form cases to the rifle. If you have several of the same caliber you are going to work up a load for each rifle anyway, so you may consider different brands of brass for each rifle, to make sorting easier. Or you can mark the bases with color- model paint, nail polish whatever gets into the stampings on the base and it is easier to segregate them.
Uniform the primer pockets and flash holes of all cases. Even brand new ones. (you should only need to do this once!)
I full length size brand new cases and then set OAL to print maximum before the first loading. I have a manual case length trimmer (not sure of brand now- it's packed away) and after fire-forming, I checked length on every case and trim anything over max OAL (back to max OAL).
With the (Hornady match) bullets I was using, I was not close to the lands, so I made my cartridges at max OAL with the bullet seated. This allowed them to function in the (R700) magazine with no issues. It also allowed the case to lightly grab the bullets. On that note, I had a very "weak" grab on my bullets because I went from loading bench to shooting bench with not much in between. Cartridges were stored bullet up in some nice plastic cases I got from Cabelas that kept them standing up and protected. If you do a hunting round, you must crimp the bullet well so it does not fall out or get knocked out of line. If you manually chamber one round at a time, you may be able to go longer if your bullet allows it and you are not too close to the lands with the ogive. That's a bit tricky to measure accurately but there are "old school" methods that work well and are basically free.
For cleaning I used walnut shells and a couple drops of "Nu Finish". I would run strips of white paper towel once in a while in the media (no brass) to clean the media. Unless you have nasty old brass (which I did- sixty-odd year old in my case) it keeps them looking great and sliding in and out of battery well. Tend your brass- don't let it go flying and getting neck dents that when straightened, could lead to cracks.
There are many books on the subject (not counting the one I just wrote here) but you don't need to spend a fortune, just do everything to the highest standard of consistency and quality you can with the equipment you have.
I was shooting 10-round groups at ~1 MOA with this crap and it was certainly not state of the art. I just optimized everything I could to limit the number of things out of control.
I ran Varget powder on the advice of my instructor and it was very consistent for me. Federal primers ideally but at the time components were a bit difficult to get so that was one area where I would deviate from time to time. CCI was the other brand I would default to as well.
I went round and round and settled on a fairly simple formula that worked well for me, and in hind sight, would be quite inexpensive.
The rockchucker I had. Find them used or new- the investment is one-time on this. Lee seems fine, and less expensive, but whatever you get, go cast iron, not welded steel or aluminum. (I have no idea what is "hot" these days)
Get a good quality neck sizing collet die. I think mine is a Forester... I don't remember but what ever it is, it should be adjustable. That accounts for wear, and you can make it perfect for your needs. A full length sizer if you have brand new brass or brass not fired in the rifle you are loading for.
So, this all requires a good measurement device. Consistency=accuracy, and vice versa. Don't get a harbor freight caliper. Spend the (less than a case of ammo cost) for a decent caliper. I have had good luck (for decades) with Mitutoyo. But there are other brands that are fine as well. Spend what you are comfortable with, but if you can't find the country of origin on a map- avoid it. A zero reset is nice but since you are logging everything you do for each load in your log book, start dimensions are not a big deal to note as well...
I use the RCBS adjustable powder 'dump' set a little light and then top up with a trickler onto a triple-beam RCBS balance. Yes, it's tedious but Consistency=accuracy. At the time digital stuff was not repeatable enough. Maybe it's better now, and I expect anything "good" is going to be expensive. And I always re-zero the balance every 20 or so rounds, and reset it to my target weight. (don't move the balance once set either) Yes, it's a bit of "wasted" time but Consistency=accuracy.
Hand seat your primers. You need to feel that.
Fire form cases to the rifle. If you have several of the same caliber you are going to work up a load for each rifle anyway, so you may consider different brands of brass for each rifle, to make sorting easier. Or you can mark the bases with color- model paint, nail polish whatever gets into the stampings on the base and it is easier to segregate them.
Uniform the primer pockets and flash holes of all cases. Even brand new ones. (you should only need to do this once!)
I full length size brand new cases and then set OAL to print maximum before the first loading. I have a manual case length trimmer (not sure of brand now- it's packed away) and after fire-forming, I checked length on every case and trim anything over max OAL (back to max OAL).
With the (Hornady match) bullets I was using, I was not close to the lands, so I made my cartridges at max OAL with the bullet seated. This allowed them to function in the (R700) magazine with no issues. It also allowed the case to lightly grab the bullets. On that note, I had a very "weak" grab on my bullets because I went from loading bench to shooting bench with not much in between. Cartridges were stored bullet up in some nice plastic cases I got from Cabelas that kept them standing up and protected. If you do a hunting round, you must crimp the bullet well so it does not fall out or get knocked out of line. If you manually chamber one round at a time, you may be able to go longer if your bullet allows it and you are not too close to the lands with the ogive. That's a bit tricky to measure accurately but there are "old school" methods that work well and are basically free.
For cleaning I used walnut shells and a couple drops of "Nu Finish". I would run strips of white paper towel once in a while in the media (no brass) to clean the media. Unless you have nasty old brass (which I did- sixty-odd year old in my case) it keeps them looking great and sliding in and out of battery well. Tend your brass- don't let it go flying and getting neck dents that when straightened, could lead to cracks.
There are many books on the subject (not counting the one I just wrote here) but you don't need to spend a fortune, just do everything to the highest standard of consistency and quality you can with the equipment you have.
I was shooting 10-round groups at ~1 MOA with this crap and it was certainly not state of the art. I just optimized everything I could to limit the number of things out of control.
I ran Varget powder on the advice of my instructor and it was very consistent for me. Federal primers ideally but at the time components were a bit difficult to get so that was one area where I would deviate from time to time. CCI was the other brand I would default to as well.
I suggest a lee classic cast if you have to buy new amazon had them for about $105 shipped but otherwise search around on Craigslist and other places for a used press. I got my coax for under $100 used, my hornady for $25 nos, rcbs rc $60, hornady ap $200. The deals are out there you just gotta be on the lookout and have cash.
Otherwise I hear a lot of good suggestions from the other folks.
As for dies I like forester micro seaters
But honestly all the dies I have are pretty good usually the worst seem to be rcbs but they are still all good. I like lee dies for the neck sizer but their seaters I generally don't care for. Other stuff is the same as others. I personally have never used whidden dies or anything custom.
As for scales I have a ohaus 10-10 and a rcbs 505 along with a hornady and lee. I like the ohaus and rcbs over the other two. But I did just buy a hornady auto powder drop so we'll see how that works.
For primer seater I've just used a lee but recently bought a Frankfort arsenal seater and it seems much better but only time will tell. It is also supposedly adjustable for depth but I've yet to use it and see how accurate that is.
Case trimming I use the ole lee cutters and things along with a homemade wft cutter for bulk .223 and soon .308. As for the other stuff I think what you see is what you get buy what you think will do it for you. I like the Lyman multitool for chamfering and use the bits to ream military primers
I have corncob and stainless media for cleaning I like to use corn cob on dirty military brass to get it clean enough to resize trim etc and then finish with the stainless tumble as I like to believe it help debur edges and it cleans all of the brass chips out.
That's pretty much the stuff I suggest some will disagree but most of it is affordable items and won't break the bank.
Otherwise I hear a lot of good suggestions from the other folks.
As for dies I like forester micro seaters
But honestly all the dies I have are pretty good usually the worst seem to be rcbs but they are still all good. I like lee dies for the neck sizer but their seaters I generally don't care for. Other stuff is the same as others. I personally have never used whidden dies or anything custom.
As for scales I have a ohaus 10-10 and a rcbs 505 along with a hornady and lee. I like the ohaus and rcbs over the other two. But I did just buy a hornady auto powder drop so we'll see how that works.
For primer seater I've just used a lee but recently bought a Frankfort arsenal seater and it seems much better but only time will tell. It is also supposedly adjustable for depth but I've yet to use it and see how accurate that is.
Case trimming I use the ole lee cutters and things along with a homemade wft cutter for bulk .223 and soon .308. As for the other stuff I think what you see is what you get buy what you think will do it for you. I like the Lyman multitool for chamfering and use the bits to ream military primers
I have corncob and stainless media for cleaning I like to use corn cob on dirty military brass to get it clean enough to resize trim etc and then finish with the stainless tumble as I like to believe it help debur edges and it cleans all of the brass chips out.
That's pretty much the stuff I suggest some will disagree but most of it is affordable items and won't break the bank.
You got a Co-Ax for under $100???? Thats gotta be the deal of the century and nobody should expect to find that deal ever again..
When you say all the dies are pretty good have you measured runout with a concentricity gauge or are you just saying they all "functioned" for you? I have found excessive runout with a lot of dies with the Forster Ultra Micrometer producing the least amount of runout of any dies along with the Forster FL sizing die all tested on a 21st century concentricity gauge.
The classic Lee sucks, it doesn't even over center. I used mine for a couple months before I upgraded to a rock chucker. In fact I bought the complete lee reloading kit, and the only thing from that kit I still use is the powder scale.
I have to disagree. I have a Lee classic cast and produce sub half-moa ammo with it. I have seen no difference between ammo loaded on it and ammo loaded on my dad's rockchucker.
Along with the Lee press, I use a 505 scale, Forster trimmer, and Redding standard dies. As far as upgrading, I would like to try out some better dies but otherwise I don't feel the need to upgrade anything as I am happy with the results I am getting.
Neat. I have to disagree with you too. Lets see some 5x5s on this sub half moa ammo.
I am not saying I did not load decent ammo on mine, but sizing heavy .308 brass like SWA or LC, or using the LW collet die to size above the belts on magnums, are pretty much a no go on that press.
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I don't load volume, maybe 200 rounds at a time and it usually takes me a couple of days to go through it all because I like to step away for a bit. But, here's how I started:
When I first started, I went with a Lee auto indexing turret press and Lee dies. When I received the press, I was not happy with how it was made. It may be a good press that makes good ammo, but it just felt cheaply made to me. I ended up sending it back and purchasing the Redding T7 turret press and Redding dies. The Redding has its plusses and minuses but overall it just looks and feels like a really good quality piece of equipment. Some features are done better by other companies but overall, I'm extremely happy with it. As for everything else, I went with the frankford arsenal wet tumbler, rcbs charge master, rcbs case prep center, and a Redding bench mounted trimmer. I'm very happy with my setup.
When I first started, I went with a Lee auto indexing turret press and Lee dies. When I received the press, I was not happy with how it was made. It may be a good press that makes good ammo, but it just felt cheaply made to me. I ended up sending it back and purchasing the Redding T7 turret press and Redding dies. The Redding has its plusses and minuses but overall it just looks and feels like a really good quality piece of equipment. Some features are done better by other companies but overall, I'm extremely happy with it. As for everything else, I went with the frankford arsenal wet tumbler, rcbs charge master, rcbs case prep center, and a Redding bench mounted trimmer. I'm very happy with my setup.
maybe 5% of people can actually make money -therefore saving money- by saving time. i'll spend an extra hour at the bench in order to save money to eat.
What I was told to do, and did, was get the Hornady book. Buy the Rockchucker kit and learn the basics and the proper steps. After that you can branch out to more complicated areas. I'm glad I did it that way. It's been 7 years and still going at it. It can get expensive but it's fun
I did indeed get it for about $90 cash. I agree with you on the Forster being some of the better dies but I think the hornady mg dies work pretty well too. The thing I don't like about the foresters is I feel like the spring tension is too much but I've never had issues. The hornady copied the forester essentially but with no spring. I have had issues with the lee seaters but for converting .308 to .243 their sizing die works much better than my Redding set (they are much smoother and easier to size with). If I get a chance I'll try to really look at the runout and see I'll cobble together something with a v block and some test indicators.
•RCBS Rockchucker or Redding Big Boss. They will allow you to load up to normal size magnum calibers, are high quality, have a solid reputation, and won't need upgrading in the future. Not the cheapest, but probably one of the best values.
•Digital calibers. Nothing fancy is needed. RCBS work fine.
•Digital scale. I don't think anything fancy is needed here either. $100 or less will be just fine. I have both Chargemasters and Hornady's version and...mehh...I truly believe the good old dispensers are faster and more accurate. Something like the RCBS uniflow dispenser is what I use except its 40 years old.
•Headspace gauges. You need these to properly set headspace on your dies. I like sinclair bump gauges. Might as well get the bullet comparators also, they make life much easier.
•A good tumbler. I've only used Thumbler's Tumblers. But I have friends with just about every brand. Hard to have much of an opinion here.
•21st Century priming tool. Not cheap, but worth the money. The cheaper ones suck ass. I bought the Sinclair version before 21st came out with theirs, they seem to have fixed the weaknesses of the Sinclair model. I also have a couple RCBS and the Hornady tool-which is horrible.
•Dies, I'd go Forster or Redding TypeS. Forster makes a non micrometer seating die that still functions like the more expensive dies with a sleeve holding the case and bullet straighy before seating.
•At least one reloading manual.
Those are the big items off the top of my head...
•Digital calibers. Nothing fancy is needed. RCBS work fine.
•Digital scale. I don't think anything fancy is needed here either. $100 or less will be just fine. I have both Chargemasters and Hornady's version and...mehh...I truly believe the good old dispensers are faster and more accurate. Something like the RCBS uniflow dispenser is what I use except its 40 years old.
•Headspace gauges. You need these to properly set headspace on your dies. I like sinclair bump gauges. Might as well get the bullet comparators also, they make life much easier.
•A good tumbler. I've only used Thumbler's Tumblers. But I have friends with just about every brand. Hard to have much of an opinion here.
•21st Century priming tool. Not cheap, but worth the money. The cheaper ones suck ass. I bought the Sinclair version before 21st came out with theirs, they seem to have fixed the weaknesses of the Sinclair model. I also have a couple RCBS and the Hornady tool-which is horrible.
•Dies, I'd go Forster or Redding TypeS. Forster makes a non micrometer seating die that still functions like the more expensive dies with a sleeve holding the case and bullet straighy before seating.
•At least one reloading manual.
Those are the big items off the top of my head...
Oh, and every reloader needs Imperial sizing wax at their bench
i'll shoot even less if i spend more money. which is my point.
I was lucky enough to know of a small loading class and attended for 50.00. The actual feel of the process gave me confidence. The Speer book best outlined the process as I read it prior to the class.
I bought the Rockchucker kit 7000 rds ago and want to buy a second now.
Load data in all my books , not consistent. Use good judgement and start loading.
I bought the Rockchucker kit 7000 rds ago and want to buy a second now.
Load data in all my books , not consistent. Use good judgement and start loading.
