Rem 700 223 Pierced Primers

[poink]

Im stumped so to the experts.

Rem 700 in 223, 20 inch 1/9 twist

The left 10 cases are GFL (fiocchi) brass with CCI 400 primers
24 grains of varget
77 SMK (seated .025) off the lands

I have another rem 700 223 that craters primers with factory ammo, and this one does too. But I had a pierced primer with this load, same with 24.2 which is the next row of cases. All of the cases have a niced radiused primer on the edge but have some bad cratering.

24/Varget 77SMK left 10 The 10 to the right is 24.2 Then I tested 1 24.4 to the right of that
https://i.imgur.com/vCzYLHp.jpg

Another view of 24/Varget 77 SMK
https://i.imgur.com/r5YisA6.jpg

This is factory Fiocchi 223 55gr
https://i.imgur.com/DV2Xpgp.jpg

Sierra doesnt have reload data for 77smk but it does for the 80gr MatchKing. Max on that is 25.3 Max on the 69gr MatchKing is 26.4 So i figured 24 grains would be safe to start with.

Just as another data point, I load 23.8 of varget and same primers/bullet/brass in my Krieger 20 inch AR15 and i have never had this.

So I did some research, Some think that the CCI 400 cup is too thin and suggested going to the BR4 or 450.

Any advice?

 

[Litshoot]

The load sounds very reserved. I've shot up to 25.5 of varget behind Sierra 80gr. 24.5-25 behind 69 gr. This was with ar at service rifle. One thing I've been warned of is a pierced primer damages the firing pin. And if they happen repetitive try a new firing pin. I believed I was using cci br4 primers. Hope this helps some
Seth

 

[poink]

Ill check the firing ping for damage. There is absolutely no ejector marks on the brass. No sticky bolt lift. Except on one pierced primer. I think the firing pin got stuck in it or something.

 

[918v]

Try a BR-4 or 450 or #41 primer.

 

[Steel head]

I've had issues with the #400's with most anything above mid 223 loads.
I use #450's now when I'm getting into the upper region of loading data

 

[poink]

Thanks for the info Steel head. I got some BR4 primers and I just ordered some 450s and 41s. Ill give those a shot.

What issues were you having? Same as me? I did notice on my AR that it showed flattening way sooner than the BR4 primers. I guess i didnt pay attention enough.

 

[tomme boy]

I just got back into loading 223 after about 7 years. I had some rounds left over from the last time I had one. I went out and shot a few. They worked really well so I went and got some components and reloaded these the exact same as before. Now I am getting cratered primes and a few that pierced. So I think that the CCI primers are at fault here. I lowered my load 1 complete gr. and it still was cratering the primer. So I know the primers are the cause.

 

[bkw1911]

As said previous move to the 450. With my 223ai and 80s with varget I tried 400s and had pressure signs well below 223 data let alone Ai data. Switched to the 450 and all pressure signs went away and I was able to push up to good ai speeds.

 

[poink]

I just got back into loading 223 after about 7 years. I had some rounds left over from the last time I had one. I went out and shot a few. They worked really well so I went and got some components and reloaded these the exact same as before. Now I am getting cratered primes and a few that pierced. So I think that the CCI primers are at fault here. I lowered my load 1 complete gr. and it still was cratering the primer. So I know the primers are the cause.

Thanks for the info. I have som BR and 450s im going to try.

 

[Easy_E]

Just a thought I had this problem with cci's in my 700 pss in .223 . In a late night reloading session getting ready for a prairie dog trip I grabbed sm pistol primers instead of sm rifles. I hated the old small print labels cci used.

 

[poink]

I dont have any pistol primers in the house. I only reload 223. All my boxes say CCI 400 small rifle primers. Although, i did notice the little trays they came in were white, they use to be black. maybe miss marked? Ive ran these primers in my AR15 at a stiff loading and everything was A-ok.

 

[Steel head]

Thanks for the info Steel head. I got some BR4 primers and I just ordered some 450s and 41s. Ill give those a shot.

What issues were you having? Same as me? I did notice on my AR that it showed flattening way sooner than the BR4 primers. I guess i didnt pay attention enough.

Flat primers way too early, bad cratering and even a few pierced primers.
the #450's primers look great up to the stoutest of loads and accuracy and AS/SD were not affected negatively at all.
Rem 7 1/2 is also a primer I like.

 

[Easy_E]

I dont have any pistol primers in the house. I only reload 223. All my boxes say CCI 400 small rifle primers. Although, i did notice the little trays they came in were white, they use to be black. maybe miss marked? Ive ran these primers in my AR15 at a stiff loading and everything was A-ok.

I thought you might have made the same mistake as me.

 

[poink]

Cool, thanks for the update. Steel head.

 

[Boogaloo]

You can also try a lighter weight F/P spring, or modify a stock spring by cutting one coil at a time to reduce the impact on the primer. It's worth a try, and stock springs are cheap... I actually really like the CCI 400 primers and I have a shitload of them, but I primarily use them as pistol primers in my 9mm handloads. I have almost exclusively switched to the russian primers in my .223 bolt gun, both for 223 AI and 223 Wylde mainly because they are cheaper and give me the same or better SD/ES numbers...

 

[MarshallDodge]

Are you completely certain that you are not seating into the lands?

 

[poink]

Are you completely certain that you are not seating into the lands?

I am 100% sure im .025 off the lands.

 

[tomme boy]

A lighter spring will make it worse. There are three causes of this. 1) the primers are a little thin. 2) The bolt head pin channel is either dished a little, or the hole is over sized. Or both. 3) The firing pin spring is weak will also cause this.

 

[tomme boy]

I went yesterday and bought some 450 CCI primers. It is still cratering, but the piercing stopped. I am going to order a new bolt head from PTG for my Savage. If you have a Remington, you are going to have to have it bushed.

 

[Steel head]

I went yesterday and bought some 450 CCI primers. It is still cratering, but the piercing stopped. I am going to order a new bolt head from PTG for my Savage. If you have a Remington, you are going to have to have it bushed.

Some rifles crater everything.
My Savage craters primers with starting data loads and all factory loads.
I ordered a PTG bolt head for it also.

 

[tomme boy]

So is it still cratering the primers?

 

[Steel head]

So is it still cratering the primers?

Haven't got it yet.

 

[poink]

Quick update, Loaded 24, 24.2 24.4 24.6 24.8 25 grains of varget under some 77 SMK with CCI 450 primers. Much much better. no pierced primers. Even got some 80 SMK to stabilize in a 1/9 twist. at 200 yards they shot .24 MOA

 

[Steel head]

NICE!
80's in a 1-9!
I have a carbine 1-9 that loves 77 but the 80's,,,, not so much.

 

[DBLNUT]

Call Greg Tannel At Gre Tan Rifles. He bushes the firing pin holes and turns the firing pin on the bolt to eliminate this problem. He has done a few for me.

 

[DBLNUT]

Gre'-Tan Rifles

Here is the website.

 

[poink]

No more primer problems. So ill pass on the bushing. Thanks for the info though.

https://i.imgur.com/OZVoIQ6.jpg
From left to right
1st vertical row, 5 rounds 24 Varget
2nd 24.2
3rd 24.4
4th 24.6
5 24.8
6 25
7 H335 25.6 55 grain blitzking
8 h335 26 55 grain blitzking
9 24 varget under 80 SMK
10 24 varget under 80 SMK

If you click the photo and zoom around, you will see some bright spots on the brass. The brass isnt extruding into the ejector its just a bright rub spot. Is that a sign of pressure? The primers look fantastic, good radius and not too much cratering. (remember its a rem 700)

https://i.imgur.com/Gsqa60w.jpg
This is a 24.8 load showing the bright spot. Its not extruding. Should i be worried?


https://i.imgur.com/AmtLzF4.jpg
Another 24.8 next to a 55 grain factory ball round on the right

 

[poink]

NICE!
80's in a 1-9!
I have a carbine 1-9 that loves 77 but the 80's,,,, not so much.

Yea I was as surprised as you. Its funny but the 80s make a much different noise when fired, like a lower boom report.