Remember this when you go car shopping and......

308pirate

308pirate

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Apr 25, 2017
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    #1
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    #5
    I will never ever have a GM product in my garage.

    Fiat saved Chrysler, Ford restructured their debt about a year before so was ok....it was ONLY GM.

    Never again.
     
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    #8
    AllenOne1 said:
    Haven't looked at a Government Motors vehicle since that 2009 bailout. I know other car companies have had issues as well but that was one of the worst I have seen. Ford didn't take that bailout and it shifted a lot of business to them at that time. Right now I'm all Toyota assembled in Texas or Mexico.
    Click to expand...

    I have one Honda made in the US, one Honda made in Japan, and one Toyota made in Canada.
     
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    #9
    Grew up a Chevy guy, after 09, will never buy a new one. Still want an old K5 but shopping for a bronco instead. Work truck is a Chevy but I didn’t buy that and my next one will be a TRX (if I get my way).
     
    #11
    I feel bad for the guy because he put all his eggs in one basket without realizing what would happen. GM promised way too much to their employees and somehow should be held accountable.

    I haven't owned a GM vehicle in about 20 years. Too many better options out there.
     
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    #13
    When Bethlehem Steel went under they found out the union had mismanaged the pension fund. It was basically a Ponzi scheme with union leaders skimming off the top. The federal insurance stepped in. My dad got a little less than 30% of what he was promised.

    it was a learning experience for me - trust no one to help support my retirement plans. No company pension and definitely not the .gov.
     
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    #17
    DarnYankeeUSMC said:
    Boo fucking hoo!!!
    He was way overpaid for what he did and now the taxpayers should support his lifestyle. Fuck that
    Click to expand...

    Ahh no.

    If the company or .gov tells you, if you do X after you retire you will get Y, then that should not be changed. If you (the company or whatever) can't "afford" it anymore, then you make a change that hits all new people coming in, you don't change the old agreement.
     
    #19
    Docsherm said:
    If he was a Union employee then he deserves everything bad that is happening to him. FUCK those Union Socialist!!!!!!
    Click to expand...
    So that can work the other direction too? These aren't CEOs, these are everyday people that worked for a promised retirement.

    Vets were part of a socialist type program while enlisted....they should be treated the same?
     
    #20
    fpgt72 said:
    Ahh no.

    If the company or .gov tells you, if you do X after you retire you will get Y, then that should not be changed. If you (the company or whatever) can't "afford" it anymore, then you make a change that hits all new people coming in, you don't change the old agreement.
    Click to expand...
    It's not a government pension and he's not a government employee. Delphi is a subsidiary corp of GM that was spun off in 1999.

    The Susan Muffley Act is complete bullshit. Hold GM/Delphi execs and the fund managers accountable if you want. Hell, seize their assets and auction them off with the proceeds to be distributed to the pension holders for all I care.

    I've never entered into any sort of contract or agreement with Delphi or its workers. I've never even owned a GM vehicle. Why in the sweet fuck should I (the American taxpayer) foot the bill?

    The S&P is down somewhere around 15 percent YTD. Odds are most of our retirement accounts are down too. Are JB and the squad going to "top off" our retirement accounts as well? Is Dave Muffley? Hell no.
     
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    #21
    I used to buy only Honda and Toyota, now only Toyota because I don't want Turbos which is all Honda makes now.

    Much prefer to buy American, but Toyota is far superior quality and made just as much in this country as the big 3
     
    #22
    Animal357 said:
    I used to buy only Honda and Toyota, now only Toyota because I don't want Turbos which is all Honda makes now.

    Much prefer to buy American, but Toyota is far superior quality and made just as much in this country as the big 3
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, me too. And they are usually more "American" than Ford/GM/Dodge. I know my Tundra is more US made than any of the Big 3 half tons.

    Not gonna lie though, I would love to have a Corvette ;)
     
    #24
    sled_mack said:
    When Bethlehem Steel went under they found out the union had mismanaged the pension fund. It was basically a Ponzi scheme with union leaders skimming off the top. The federal insurance stepped in. My dad got a little less than 30% of what he was promised.

    it was a learning experience for me - trust no one to help support my retirement plans. No company pension and definitely not the .gov.
    Click to expand...
    If I remember correctly, there was a big movement (buyouts) by takeover specialists (sharks) back in the early 2000s. The Takeovers were buying up companies in the steel business and others with HUGE company pensions. Takeovers were then running up the debt, declaring bankruptcy, and taking the pensions (cream) as a bonus. People who worked their whole lives putting money into the pension on the agreement of 30 years ago got totally FK'd. The government nodded their head and screwed over the workers.
    And here we are today......
    found this link
    Bethlehem's plan, which has about 95,000 participants, has $3.9 billion in unfunded benefits that the PBGC will absorb. The size of the​
    Bethlehem termination dwarfs what had been the PBGC's biggest loss: its March 2002 takeover of the pension plans of another failed steelmaker, LTV Steel Corp., whose plans had $1.9 billion in PBGC-guaranteed benefits.​
    ​
    Selected assets of both Bethlehem, Pa.-based Bethlehem Steel and Cleveland-based LTV were purchased by International Steel Group Inc., a company formed to buy assets of financially distressed steel manufacturers. Cleveland-based International Steel did not assume the pension plan liabilities of either LTV or Bethlehem.​
     
    Last edited:
    #25
    Bullfrog08 said:
    So that can work the other direction too? These aren't CEOs, these are everyday people that worked for a promised retirement.

    Vets were part of a socialist type program while enlisted....they should be treated the same?
    Click to expand...
    You are comparing Apples and Hand Grenades.....

    Even the Railroads Unions are subject to the GOV, yet they can collective barging and can actually walk out and strike. Try and strike and you will get a free trip to Kansas. :rolleyes:

    Just like I have heard from all of the Haters out there.... you choose to join the MIL, there is no draft........ They JOINED a socialist Union...... Expect to be treated like a socialist.


    Their retirement cut cut for the betterment of the people. It was for the WORKERS!!!!!!

    Unions are a gateway drug for Socialism..... But they have become accepted so much today that people forget it is the same principles that the USSR and PEC are founded on.
     
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    #27
    From the story: "The legislation would require the government to "top up" the pensions of the salaried Delphi workers, as GM did for the unionized workers."

    From this I gather that these were not unionized employees. GM screwed these people royally and they should be the ones to make this right. It seems that GM showed preferential treatment to the unionized workers at the expense of the salaried workers in the bankruptcy. Regardless, a lot of people lost a shit ton during the recession of 2008. I wouldn't mind being made whole too, but it's not going to happen.
     
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    #29
    Arc Light said:
    From the story: "The legislation would require the government to "top up" the pensions of the salaried Delphi workers, as GM did for the unionized workers."

    From this I gather that these were not unionized employees. GM screwed these people royally and they should be the ones to make this right. It seems that GM showed preferential treatment to the unionized workers at the expense of the salaried workers in the bankruptcy. Regardless, a lot of people lost a shit ton during the recession of 2008. I wouldn't mind being made whole too, but it's not going to happen.
    Click to expand...
    Both Obamas regime and gm fucked the salaried WORKERS
     
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    #30
    Docsherm said:
    You are comparing Apples and Hand Grenades.....

    Even the Railroads Unions are subject to the GOV, yet they can collective barging and can actually walk out and strike. Try and strike and you will get a free trip to Kansas. :rolleyes:

    Just like I have heard from all of the Haters out there.... you choose to join the MIL, there is no draft........ They JOINED a socialist Union...... Expect to be treated like a socialist.


    Their retirement cut cut for the betterment of the people. It was for the WORKERS!!!!!!

    Unions are a gateway drug for Socialism..... But they have become accepted so much today that people forget it is the same principles that the USSR and PEC are founded on.
    Click to expand...
    Labor unions have been socialist and communist agitators from day one
     
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    #31
    Yes they did. But it happens all the time in corporate America and the employees take it up the ass without the taxpayers being in the hook
    308pirate said:
    Both Obamas regime and gm fucked the salaried WORKERS
    Click to expand...
    Once again it was the big boy club that cleaned out the bank account and with government blessing. How was this any different than the too big to fail banks?
     
    #32
    Arc Light said:
    Not gonna lie though, I would love to have a Corvette ;)
    Click to expand...
    fuck that piece of shit. Buy an Acura NSX, designed, engineered, manufactured, and hand assembled in the USA and nowhere else

    You would not believe the concentration of manufacturing in Ohio to support Honda. American, Japanese, and European companies opening factories here to make components of all kinds and the giant Honda engine and transmission manufacturing facilities here. They do everything from casting, forging, machining, to final assembly.
     
    Last edited:
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    #33
    DarnYankeeUSMC said:
    Yes they did. But it happens all the time in corporate America and the employees take it up the ass without the taxpayers being in the hook

    Once again it was the big boy club that cleaned out the bank account and with government blessing. How was this any different than the too big to fail banks?
    Click to expand...
    This was different because it was an open subversion of bankruptcy law
     
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    #35
    Laws don't apply to those that were in on that whole scheme. Some of those execs were paid $50 million for a couple weeks of smoking and drinking fine cigars and liquor while they divided up the money and then they walked away into oblivion
    308pirate said:
    This was different because it was an open subversion of bankruptcy law
    Click to expand...
    Laws.... Only apply to the minions and those that want to upset the apple cart.
    Name a branch of the government that's not corrupted.
    He's lucky that he's walking away with anything
     
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    #36
    DarnYankeeUSMC said:
    Laws don't apply to those that were in on that whole scheme. Some of those execs were paid $50 million for a couple weeks of smoking and drinking fine cigars and liquor while they divided up the money and then they walked away into oblivion

    Laws.... Only apply to the minions and those that want to upset the apple cart.
    Name a branch of the government that's not corrupted.
    He's lucky that he's walking away with anything
    Click to expand...
    You and I agree more than we don't
     
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    #37
    94BCC3EB-29F6-4E16-B7D0-251B437F4BD1.jpeg

    Just back from tearing Oregon route 78 a new asshole
    Rubber down every corner.
    God bless America!
     
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    #38
    308pirate said:
    fuck that piece of shit. Buy an Acura NSX, designed, engineered, manufactured, and hand assembled in the USA and nowhere else

    You would not believe the concentration of manufacturing in Ohio to support Honda. American, Japanese, and European companies opening factories here to make components of all kinds and the giant Honda engine and transmission manufacturing facilities here. They do everything from casting, forging, machining, to final assembly.
    Click to expand...
    8EC70524-C706-49A8-9450-A779979912DA.jpeg


    you got to post a pic!
     
    Last edited:
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    #40
    308pirate said:
    fuck that piece of shit. Buy an Acura NSX, designed, engineered, manufactured, and hand assembled in the USA and nowhere else

    You would not believe the concentration of manufacturing in Ohio to support Honda. American, Japanese, and European companies opening factories here to make components of all kinds and the giant Honda engine and transmission manufacturing facilities here. They do everything from casting, forging, machining, to final assembly.
    Click to expand...
    And the profits go back to the motherland............Japan......
     
    #41
    Marinevet1 said:
    And the profits go back to the motherland............Japan......
    Click to expand...
    This has got to be one of the most utterly stupid lines ever said

    It's fucking clear that people who say that do not understand what profits do nor do they understand that profits are hardly the top impact a business has on the communities in which it operates.

    Not only that, people like you cannot grasp the fact that the American subsidiaries of foreign corporations are taxed on their earning here.

    BTW the profits go to whomever owns the stock. Honda is publicly traded. Want a piece of the action? Buy the fuck in. Stock exchange is that way ----->

    I could not give a fuck less about American automakers, who long ago abandoned the state where I live to make their vehicles in Mexico, China, and India.
     
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    #46
    308pirate said:
    This was different because it was an open subversion of bankruptcy law
    Click to expand...

    They fucked with the laws of capitalist nature.

    There was a reason the invisible hand was bitch slapping them.

    It's like changing human DNA without proper evolutionary pressure to ensure the right outcome. Guessing 13 years from now we will be saying oops and the Supreme Court will say No Refunds.

    On the upside I am guessing GM has a fantastic ESG score.

    Anyone doubt the collapse wasn't used to make business a controlled wing of government?
     
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    #47
    With the banking laws that were enacted I don't believe that it's a tinfoil conspiracy to say that the 08 debacle wasn't a planned event.
    The government took a serious amount of control over major industries and the too big to fail banks. Then they choked out a majority of the small banks.
    But I am just some Billy sitting on the outside watching the game. So what do I know.
    pmclaine said:
    They fucked with the laws of capitalist nature.

    There was a reason the invisible hand was bitch slapping them.

    It's like changing human DNA without proper evolutionary pressure to ensure the right outcome. Guessing 13 years from now we will be saying oops and the Supreme Court will say No Refunds.

    On the upside I am guessing GM has a fantastic ESG score.

    Anyone doubt the collapse wasn't used to make business a controlled wing of government?
    Click to expand...
    And just like that there's another boom of over inflated housing and sketchy bank loans that are all within the guidelines to prevent another 08 event. In the meantime the Fed has printed $23 trillion in Monopoly money. Who's been the beneficiary of that money?
     
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    #48
    vinniedelpino said:
    The Susan Muffley Act is complete bullshit. Hold GM/Delphi execs and the fund managers accountable if you want. Hell, seize their assets and auction them off with the proceeds to be distributed to the pension holders for all I care.

    I've never entered into any sort of contract or agreement with Delphi or its workers. I've never even owned a GM vehicle. Why in the sweet fuck should I (the American taxpayer) foot the bill?

    The S&P is down somewhere around 15 percent YTD. Odds are most of our retirement accounts are down too. Are JB and the squad going to "top off" our retirement accounts as well? Is Dave Muffley? Hell no.
    Click to expand...

    Agree with you 100% on these points. No one is held accountable.

    I watched my grandparents and great uncles lose a ton of money and then later testify in the S&L scandal and lots of S&L execs went to jail.
     
    #50
    Oldloser said:
    Agree with you 100% on these points. No one is held accountable.

    I watched my grandparents and great uncles lose a ton of money and then later testify in the S&L scandal and lots of S&L execs went to jail.
    Click to expand...
    And did that go get their money back? I suspect not. There is no justice. In fact, sending them to jail just cost your family even more money because they then got hit with taxes that supported those asshats in jail.
     
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