Remington bull barrel throwing 4th and 5th shots

[10031994BC]

I have a Remington 700 i have been playing around with. it is a .308 with a heavy barrel that i hand load for. i just started shooting 175 gr SMKs now that i have the vortex viper pst on it. but Ive noticed a pattern in the shooting. it would go great for 3 shots then start letting the 4th shot and 5 shot fly. now i haven't worked any loads for this gun besides the SMKs.

**This rifle use to be an ADL from dicks, but i reworked a lot of things now it has a AI mags and bottom metal and a better stock**

But from loading 150 gr partitions for my hunting rifle, a .308 too, which has a 18in light contour barrel that is a Mauser. that pushes 150s at 2800 fps with phenomenal accuracy at 100 yds. but with how light the barrel is it still wont throw any of my 5 shots.

I have heard this was a common thing with Remington and bigger calibers, but i didn't think it with my .308.

When i do my long range i wont be shooting in a fast succession but i also dont want my heavy barrel throwing any shots when my light barrel wont
Should i be looking at putting a new barrel on this gun or work with the the barrel i got

Have any of you guys experienced this. thank you for your time

 

[Huckleberry75]

Make sure that your barrel is free floated. If not, as it warms with the firat part of the course of fire, it will start to "walk", thus throwing the flyers. If you can take a piece of paper from your printer, fold it into a double thicknes and slide that fromt he tip of the forarm to the recoil lug (between the stock and barrel) then you are good to go. If not, you might need to lightly sand the barrel channel to relieve some excess material for clearance.

Is this " new stock" a chassis system, pillar bedded or have an aluminum bedding block?

 

[codemancode]

How far do you consider a "throw"? Could help diagnose the issue.

 

[10031994BC]

It is a new stock, and it is free floating. i have a B&C A2 stock that i love. the next thing will be pillar bedding. But bedding doesn't seam to be the problem here i have shot 4 or 5 % shot groups through the gun and all of them are the same thing 4th and 5th shots or flying. i go from three shots touching at 100m to 1 or 2 shots that look like i pulled them. which was what i thought was happening until i stopped and looked all of my groups.

How many shots does it take before a heavy barrel should heat up. after 5 shots it is noticeably hot. i can feel it through my calloused hands. it heats up almost as fast as a light barrel does it seams

 

[10031994BC]

How far do you consider a "throw"? Could help diagnose the issue.

all of my 5ths are 1 in away or so from my group. and some of my 4ths are that far but they are usually half the distance between the group and 5th shot
its almost if its walking out of my group

 

[Triple D]

If you are sure that the barrel is free floated and isn't the culprit, perhaps you should have someone else shoot the rifle or fire 5 shots at 5 seperate bullseyes. Sometimes people start to pull a shot once they see a great group forming. Also, make sure you aren't cooking that last round in the chamber. If it's running with a higher velocity or pressure than the others it may cause a shift in the impact.

As far as rates of fire, I've shot my 700p in F/TR and could still hold the 10ring (6" at 600yds) on the 22nd shot (2 sighters; 20 for record) with all shots fired in around 15 minutes.

Pictures of groups may help!

 

[Bill Larson]

not uncommon for a factory tube.....

 

[roggom]

Free floating a factory Remington barrel is no guarantee of anything. As a matter of fact can have the opposite result as intended. If you look on your factory tupperware stock, there is a pressure pad of sorts at the very end of barrel channel. This is to put upward pressure to help from shift. Sometimes is causes issues sometimes it helps.

In your b&c you can get some gasket material and put a strip right at that same point and maybe some right forward of the recoil lug. This is similar to corking older surplus rifles. If you done it correctly you should be able to pull the barrel back away from the corking material at 3-5 lbs (using a trigger strain gauge)

Then go rezero and see how it shoots.

This is not permanent but just to see if it is a bedding issue or not. I have tried this with success in the past and it cant hurt.

You can get the corking material at any car parts shop, comes in a little roll for making gaskets.


I am not making this shit up

Quote from the late Gale McMillan

Posted: 01-08-2000 07:08 PM
Quality barrels will perform better free floated but poor quality barrel will perform better with a 3 to 5 lb fore end pressure. The reason for this is that
poor quality production barrels are not stress relieved and will tend to walk as it heats up. By putting fore end pressure you are actually bending the
barrel upward in an ark so that as the bullet starts down the bore it is trying to straighten out the gentle bow induced by fore end pressure and it holds
the barrel against that force. This causes the bullet to exit at the same vibration point shot to shot even though there may be a velocity spread. It is best
to bed the rifle with free floated barrel as it is easy to bed the barrel with fore end pressure should it not shoot free floated. Just hold the stock in a
vice and hang a 5 lb weight to the front swivel and put bedding material in place in the fore end tip and let set up. This means that free floating is not a
panacea and does not always help. Some do and some don't This is why all factory barrels are generally bedded with fore end pressure

 

[10031994BC]

ill post some pictures tomorrow after work or before if i have time

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You may have a cow barrel...

 

[Triple D]

You may have a cow barrel...

That video never gets old!

 

[Struggles]

I used to have the same issue shooting 5 shot groups from my sps-v in the factory Tupperware stock and after I put it in B&C M40 stock, although not quite as bad with the bell&carlson. I skim bedded it in the B&C stock and it's way better now. I can shoot 10 shot strings now with much less shift, like 3 to 4 inches at 1k. Before skim bedding it would walk right off target(18" steel) at 1k

 

[I Am Hero]

Being as how it is 308 and sounds like a fairly new gun I doubt it's a burnt out barrel. My 7 mag was doing the same exact thing starting around 900-1000 rounds. The first 3 shots would touch, then the 4th and 5th may touch or they may walk 1.5 inches away at 100 yards. To make sure it wasn't just me reacting to the magnum recoil I did a number of things; shot 3 and let my friend shoot the last two; let my friend shoot all 5; or shot 1-2 at a time with a couple minute brake in between.

Processes like this helped me determine that it was in fact my factory sendero barrel that was finally shot out and I sent it off to RWS to have it trued up and a new Bartlein put in its place. I'm looking forward to great results when I get it back.

I would just try to eliminate as many factors as you possibly can to try and determine what it is. Don't change up your load, use the same one every time. Maybe use factory FGMM 168s. Etc. Just make sure you aren't changing more than 1 factor at a time (I.e. Bullet weight and stock together).

Hope you figure it out.

 

[10031994BC]

my groups
all at 100 yds

41 gr of H4895

43.5 gr of H4895 (2750 fps)

41.5 gr H4895

It looks like i pulled all of the 5th shots but i know i did not that last group was shot today 30 mins ago

 

[308220]

You have a bad barrel. I had an absolute horrible factory barrel on my 308. But not to worry, its not the end of the world. And it doesnt mean you have to shell out over $300 for a custom barrel. My barrel was shooting 1.5-3in groups at 100 yards. And always had flyers. I bought "Tubbs Final Finish" kit from Midway and it greatly helped my barrel. It turned my horrible groups into 3/4inch consistently at 100 yards. I can work with that. I suggest you buy a final finish kit. You wont regret it. Only $35. Good luck.

 

[coach4christ]

Try a different powder if you have some. Mine shoots varget and h4350 more consistant than 4895. Also, load your bullets with a little longer oal. For my factory remmy to shoot the best, I have to single load each round.

 

[Triple D]

By no means an expert, but a few thoughts based on the targets:

There seems to be a huge difference in the point of impact! It's not walking, it's sporadic.

Rings and base snug?

No mixed brass?

Parallax adjusted properly?

Loading the bipod?

Rifle firmly against your shoulder and nothing interfering with the recoil (I.e stock pack catching on your rear bag)?

I'd suggest running 168 FGMM to see if the fliers are reduced. Also, if it's on shots 4 and 5, but not on 1-3, shoot multiple 3 shot groups with the same charge (tightest 3 you've got). Run 2-3 groups allowing the barrel to cool and reset the gun in the bags (if you're not already doing this) and then repeat with faster strings of fire. This should help to determine if it's the barrel or shooter/setup fatigue. Also, make sure you aren't rushing to get it done quickly. The data is only as good as the testing.

You may also want to check the barrel for being free floated when it's warm. If it's just barely "free" when cool, it may make contact when it gets hotter.

 

[6brshooter]

Poi is sporadic, unless u pulled the first shot and had to "chase" the group. It could be several things going wrong here. I would bed it, always bed my hs or bc stocks, i can do my own so it only costs me about 10 bucks. That barrel might hate that bullet or powder. I had the most accurate factory rifle known on the interweb, the rem 5r, it was a turd. I tried 4-5 different bullets 3 powders i don't remember all the charge weights or oal i tried. Used tubbs also, u name it i tried it. The best load was 1.25-1.5" until i tried h4895 and 168 ncc. That load would do 3/4-1", turned out that it had a bore off center by .050"+. Showed it to my smith and he laughed said it was the 5th rem he'd seen that month with that problem. He showed me one that was visibly off center, like .090. Try a different scope different shooters, different loads, if those don't do anything bed it or have it borescoped.

 

[MLC]

What's your shooting position?
Is it a degradation of your position causing the groups to open up?
Bedding could very well be your issue as well.
Way to many unknowns to call it a barrel issue right off the bat.

 

[Ta406]

Some very good suggestions here. I would also make sure that your bullet seating depth and neck tension is consistent. I have a rifle that is VERY sensitive to seating depth. My rifle was doing something similar to yours every third shot or so. Adjusted my seating depth and made sure they were all within .001 of each other and my problem disappeared.

 

[10031994BC]

okay guys i havent had internet for the past 2 days, so i couldnt get on here to ask. what is this point of aim and impact that has taking over like wild fire. Is it because my groups are not in the center of the bull.

i am shooting off sand bag now and forever, no more bipod because i cant load it properly on the deck.

I never chase my groups. i aim at one point for all 5 shots. once i start shooting i never move it from my point of aim. i took out the ole 308 today to make sure it wasnt me and i have 5 shots all touching at 100 yds. i dont know what i will do but i will keep playing around with her more and more as i get time.

i will try varget next and probly switch to Match burnners or A maxs. sierra wants too much money

 

[creids98292]

Factory barrels are notorious for having stress in the steel which causes the flyers, if you are goin to keep it I would recommend sending it to 300 below for cryoing. Or start to consider a new tube.
Chris
Benchmark Barrels

 

[10031994BC]

Hey guys for any one wondering, or for any person in the future that is having this problem like mine. I got it figured out.

it was the bullet jump that was dicking me, i seated my A-Maxes out to 2.954 and messing around with 44.0 grs of varget, i dropped 4 out of 5 shots in the same hole at 100 yds. with 44 grs of varget i was also consistently hitting beer cans at 200 yds. even when the barrel was hot. thanks for all that commented on this thread. It was very much appreciated

 

[jeremyp]

Excellent! Glad to hear you got it figured out. I'm not surprised at all that a longer OAL worked wonders in your Remington 700. They are known for having long throats. I just said this in another thread here too.

 

[Struggles]

Hey guys for any one wondering, or for any person in the future that is having this problem like mine. I got it figured out.

it was the bullet jump that was dicking me, i seated my A-Maxes out to 2.954 and messing around with 44.0 grs of varget, i dropped 4 out of 5 shots in the same hole at 100 yds. with 44 grs of varget i was also consistently hitting beer cans at 200 yds. even when the barrel was hot. thanks for all that commented on this thread. It was very much appreciated

Glad you got er shootin good, that's my exact load for my sps-v also!