Remington PSR / Need Help??

RemCustom6

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Prob not the best place for this topic/question but, can anyone here help me to figure out what scope base/mount was used on the Remington PSR rifle? S&B was awarded the optics portion of the PSR contract, but I cannot don’t any mention as to what bass was used. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks HIDE!
 

tactinstr1SFG

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The base used on the PSR is a component piece of the chassis and attaches to the receiver and to the hand guard, it was not a separate unit (as in available separately).
 

RemCustom6

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I am not speaking about the optics rail, I am speaking about the optic mount itself. Yes, the rail is a monolithic unit that travels the length of the action all the way to the end of the hand guard.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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So you are talking about the rings? What PSR contract are you referring to BTW? The SOCOM contract?
 

USMCSGT0331

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AWP PSR rings are what you seek. Specifically the old style
 
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tactinstr1SFG

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I will have to review the contract docs as I do not remember what rings we used specifically, I do know that when we submitted we had L&S optics on the guns.
 

RemCustom6

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Yes. But S&B was officially awarded the contract. 5-25 PM2, H59 reticle. I have a picture of a PSR currently still in service with a NF Mount on it.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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Currently in service with who? I am pretty familiar with this rifle and its sales having been a part of the development team and running one of the sales divisions.
 
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Random Guy

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If anyone knows, it will indeed be tactinstr1SFG...

The only thing I know about the PSR program - is that SOCOM apparently re-purposed some of the big S&B scopes, as seen on odd-ball platforms like M110s...
...and I could be wrong, but that Secret Service Sniper seen recently in DC seems to have one of those big tan S&B scopes on his Mk 13 Mod 7 type platform. Might be a coincidence, but I thought it was interesting to have that scope on that rifle. (I wonder if Crane also procures some gear for the USSS?). That's all I know.
 

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tactinstr1SFG

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There is only one unit in the US military to purchase and use the PSR, actually it was not the PSR, it was the MSR (yes they are different) and in that case they bought the rifles w/o optics and as stated above repurposed some that they already had.

Now, if you are talking about the actual USSOCOM PSR contract, it was awarded (to Remington) but was never serviced and ultimately canceled in favor of the pending ASR program (which Barrett won). Having said all that, I completely acknowledge that SOCOM could have awarded the optics side to S&B, but as I said the contract was canceled and no rifles were delivered (well a handful were as test platforms).
 

RemCustom6

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Sir, I’m going to have to apologize to you, but you are in fact wrong on that. There are PSR’s in country as I type this. Not trying to start a war with you but it is factual information. I can not disclose you who/which teams are using them but my facts are real. I do appreciate your input on this matter.
 

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Way, way out of my price range, but I guess a few kits are being sold minus the optic, mount and suppressor...
...that's all I know.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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Sir, I’m going to have to apologize to you, but you are in fact wrong on that. There are PSR’s in country as I type this. Not trying to start a war with you but it is factual information. I can not disclose you who/which teams are using them but my facts are real. I do appreciate your input on this matter.
You do not have to apologize we did sell some of the early guns to a specific organization and I have heard they pushed some down when they acquired some other guns. Also, as I said we did provide a handful to DOD/SOCOM and what they have done with them or are doing with them remains to be seen. I guess where this went off the rails is when you said "fielded"; in the sense you were using it referred to weapons being sent down range and used, in the sense that I was/am coming from it meant adopted and "fielded" across the command (as in everyone has them).

There are a lot of nuances when it comes to this platform and many people/units have "played" with them, some have retained them whereas others have not. Anyway, sorry for the dust up and I am happy to help you if I can. As to the rings, I think you probably have the answer you were seeking; I could go and look at my PSR and MSR but the rings on those is not what I believe you are asking about.
 
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tactinstr1SFG

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Way, way out of my price range, but I guess a few kits are being sold minus the optic, mount and suppressor...
...that's all I know.
It always was and will forever be a very expensive system, there is a lot of R&D in it and nothing on it is cheap, that said I still believe that it remains one of if not the best all around sniper system in the world. We spent a lot of time designing it and tried to take into account every aspect a sniper might be concerned with and address it. I cannot say it is perfect, nothing is but it is as close as I have ever experienced. Probably the 2 biggest complaints about this platform is the cost and the weight; the cost is a subjective issue and the weight is primarily a result of the barrel and chassis. We did spend a lot of time trying to reduce the weight, looked at a lot of CF components, changing materials, etc. but we found that in doing so, usually the price went up, the reliability and service life went down.

All said, its a hell of a weapon system and I wish I would have had one when I was on active duty, but I do have one now so I guess I cannot complain.
 
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tactinstr1SFG

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After some research, there were 2 different companies that supplied rings; Larue and Operational Products (OPS), however I found these

 

RemCustom6

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There were numerous optic and optic mount companies that put in for the solicitation. Badger, Larue, Geissele, AWP, and one or 2 others. Just like optic companies, the individual component companies are all in the mix if they submit within the timeframe given. Nightforce, Leupold, S&B........ all were part of the submission. S&B was awarded the contract. That being said, if an operator didn’t like the S&B, and had a NF in the Q at their disposal, they could snag it and use it at will. Just like optic mounts, lasers, you name it. Just because a platform was outfitted with a certain piece, does not mean that is what the operator had to use. AWP, was the official winner of the bid. I’m pretty sure of that. Again, that does not in any way mean that was what the operator had to use.
 
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tactinstr1SFG

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I completely agree, that is the case especially on the SOCOM side. I provided the information I had reference the contract submission side, but I did not have visibility on what some of the operators preferred and/or use or are using.
 

USMCSGT0331

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Prob not the best place for this topic/question but, can anyone here help me to figure out what scope base/mount was used on the Remington PSR rifle? S&B was awarded the optics portion of the PSR contract, but I cannot don’t any mention as to what bass was used. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks HIDE!
There's a variety of mounts and rings that were submitted for the PSR program, but only Operational Products Supply (OPS) and LaRue have Program of Record (POR) mounting solutions for the Mk21.

Here's a LaRue mount:



Here's a link to the LaRue PSR mount that might be pictured above, I don't know if it's this or their LT120 mount, but this one says PSR:
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-20-moa-psr-scope-mount-qd-lt112/

Here's a link to the ones Badger Ordnance developed:
https://www.badgerordnance.com/34-mm-1-piece-unimount-ultra-high-psr-mount-1-49-high-5-long.html

I have no idea if Geissele submitted any mounts for the PSR program, but they have a few 1.54" height mounts and SOPMOD certified mounts on their website. I assume they would have submitted one of those of a slight variation.

NightForce didn't submit anything for the PSR contract, but they have tons of NSN rings and mounts, so I have absolutely no doubt that somewhere an operator has a set of NF rings or mount on his Mk21.

Leupold scope, not sure what rings:



Operational Products Supply (OPS) rings are very prevalent within SOCOM, these rings can be found on just about every sniper platform, especially the Mk21 PSR. OPS built rings and mounts for various US military trials, but for the purposes of this thread I'll focus on the PSR program. Crane actually solicited 5 ring heights for the PSR contract, however they settled on 1.500” for COTI alignment.

Below are the issued AWP 8122 Gen 1 rings, the packaging has their NSN number and the top rings are solid without any cuts. These rings are extremely rare and no longer made, best of luck to anyone trying to find a pair:
(Not a Mk21 in the pics below, it's my Mk15 Mod 1)





Below is the AWP 8137-1 bridge mount for AWP rings, this is the .865" height. OPS also made a .625" version, as well as making bridge mounts for LaRue rings in both heights:




Here are some of the other AWP rings and mount that were tested for the PSR program, but were never issued.

Below are the AWP 8122 Gen 2 rings, the packaging retains the same product number, but doesn't have an NSN. Unlike the solid Gen 1 rings, these have two cuts in each top ring. This isn't for weight removal, this was to help keep the scope locked in the rings. After rigorous testing, AWP discovered that when the rings are tightened the surface of the scope is squeezed into these cuts. While this is extremely minute and probably happens on the microscopic level, it creates a more solid mounting system:





Below are the AWP 8123 1.250” rings, Gen 1 style in custom FDE anodizing. These have an NSN number, but I was told they were just prototypes and not issued:



Below is the AWP PSR mount:




Here's the NSN information for OPS:
https://www.parttarget.com/Operational-Products-Supply-And_nsn-parts.html
 
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Random Guy

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Glad that USMCSGT0331 posted some pics of the LaRue and AWP rings used on evaluation PSRs, as noted here....

AWP PSR rings are what you seek. Specifically the old style
....me thinks that item might be tough to find...

That being said, if an operator didn’t like the S&B, and had a NF in the Q at their disposal, they could snag it and use it at will.
Yes, that is my understanding too. For example, in the last decade, if a SOCOM operator wanted to use a NF 3.5-15x50mm daytime scope on a sniper rifle, the Crane contract allowed for a bunch of variations of the same scope, based on operator or unit preferences. Here's the specific SOCOM permutations of that one particular 3.5-15x scope:

1. Adjustments: a) 0.25 MOA E/W, b) 0.5 MOA E/W, c) 1.0 MOA Elevation with 0.5 MOA Windage, and d) 0.1 Mil E/W (FWIW, the Navy used turrets "a," whereas Army SF wanted turrets "c" for some platforms, etc. Not sure who used turrets "b" and "d")
2. Ballistic caps: a) 5.56, b) 7.62, c) M118LR and AB39, d) A191 (300 WinMag), and 3) 50 BMG (ballistic caps requested by the Army)
3. Reticles: a) Hollow Mil Dot, b) Milliradian Line, and c) Ballistic (I think that last reticle was favored by the Ranger Regiment)

So, a decade ago SOCOM awarded a daytime optic contact to NF for the 3.5-15x NXS scope - but the contract procurement options covered 4 different turrets, 5 different ballistics caps , and 3 different reticles - all based on unit preferences (in this case NSW vs SF Groups vs Ranger Regiment). My understanding is that SOCOM has a lot of flexibility, and can create its own local NSNs, so it can become a very a la cart menu to choose from, so to speak. Just one example of optic system permutations you can see on SOCOM weapons...

My guess this may apply to the PSR given it was not a standard fielded item per se for general SOCOM use - but rather a small number of rifles apparently procured by a specific organization, and apparently a small number of presumably T&E/SOCOM evaluation rifles were kept for units to "play with." Anyhow, the Opto-Electric contracts that Crane manages for SOCOM provides a lot of flexibility, and it would not surprise me if different vendors of 34mm scope mounts could potentially be used based on operator preferences, as long as the vendor's product was tested and found to meet the technical requirements of some prior (or subsequent) SOCOM contract, or the specific PSR solicitation.

Obviously the use of Test and Evaluation (T&E) sample optics and/or exotic prototype parts such as light-weight titanium mounts, etc, potentially submitted by vendors for SOCOM consideration makes the picture a little more complex too. My 2cts.
 
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USMCSGT0331

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.....Secret Service Sniper seen recently in DC seems to have one of those big tan S&B scopes on his Mk 13 Mod 7 type platform. Might be a coincidence, but I thought it was interesting to have that scope on that rifle. (I wonder if Crane also procures some gear for the USSS?).
That's definitely the same scope, info engraved on the objective housing is a dead giveaway. I have no idea if Crane and the USSS work together on equipment, but if I had to bet on it, I'd go with yes. Even the USMC RTE shop built sniper rifles for the FBI and a few police departments.

Since we've been talking about OPS and the USSS, I'd like derail the thread to show everyone a rail! This is an OPS titanium scope rail (grey cerakote) with Remington 700 short action hole spacing. These were made for the USSS and used on one of their sniper rifles.



.....looked at a lot of CF components.....
IIRC, Lancer made a handful of MSR and CSR carbon fiber forends for Remington. I'd absolutely love to find carbon fiber forends for both of my prototype MSR and CSR rifles, please shoot me a PM if you know where any are hiding!


If anyone here has an MSR and they need a mount, the FN Ballista QD mount is made by OPS. I don't know what the height is, but it looks like my OPS PSR mount that was submitted to Crane. They weren't issued, but they were tested, so kinda sorta correctish?
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/3703036QDM
 

RemCustom6

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My goal in this post was to help me acquire information on on the PSR and what optic mounts were used. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and input on the matter. I have included a few pics of my MSR/PSR and my USMC spec, M2010 chassis, bid for contract M40a7. This particular A7 (prototype we will call it) was never adopted by the USMC as I believe AI was officially awarded the contract at the time. At the time of the solicitation, 3 different models were submitted, all slightly different in configuration.... caliber, suppression, and glass on one given platform were varied. From QD mounts, to direct mounts, to caliber even. 3 rifles, 2 different calibers. This submission is not widely known/ publicized as big green dropped out early in the bid. The rifle was entirely to heavy, and did not deal well with the pressure of the contract ammo with the action being a 2 lug design. The submission rifles were built on the M24 Army SWS action. Yes, the M24 action was used on a USMC contract bid solicitation. 3 rifles were built using this platform. All 3 were chambered in a Magnum caliber. Not normal for the USMC. Not trying to derail my own thread here, just thought I would share a few pics and give a bit of back story on a rarely seen rifle. Again, I really appreciate everyone’s input here. Thanks all! Sorry for getting off topic.
 

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tactinstr1SFG

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My goal in this post was to help me acquire information on on the PSR and what optic mounts were used. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and input on the matter. I have included a few pics of my MSR/PSR and my USMC spec, M2010 chassis, bid for contract M40a7. This particular A7 (prototype we will call it) was never adopted by the USMC as I believe AI was officially awarded the contract at the time. At the time of the solicitation, 3 different models were submitted, all slightly different in configuration.... caliber, suppression, and glass on one given platform were varied. From QD mounts, to direct mounts, to caliber even. 3 rifles, 2 different calibers. This submission is not widely known/ publicized as big green dropped out early in the bid. The rifle was entirely to heavy, and did not deal well with the pressure of the contract ammo with the action being a 2 lug design. The submission rifles were built on the M24 Army SWS action. Yes, the M24 action was used on a USMC contract bid solicitation. 3 rifles were built using this platform. All 3 were chambered in a Magnum caliber. Not normal for the USMC. Not trying to derail my own thread here, just thought I would share a few pics and give a bit of back story on a rarely seen rifle. Again, I really appreciate everyone’s input here. Thanks all! Sorry for getting off topic.
RemCustom6 - what year was the M40A7 solicitation? I know that we submitted 3 M2010 rifles to the USMC around probably 2013 or so for some testing as the Corps was looking for a 300WM and was thinking about a COTS solution, unfortunately one of the rifles had head space issues and all 3 were returned unfired. As some of you probably know, the USMC is not in the habit of buying off the shelf, made to spec or not, they like to build their own. As to the 3 rifles we sent them, they were made to the standard US Army M2010 spec.

I would question the issue of the "pressure of the contract ammo" issue as the M24/700 design will withstand a significant amount of pressure (I designed the M24A3 in 338 LM and conducted an obstructed bore test and it did very well). Not saying that problems don't occur but any time rifles have been presented to the Corps for testing they typically fail (regardless of whose rifles they were).
 

RemCustom6

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2016, it’s real, it happened. Don’t ask me how I know this because I will not disclose the info. Rifles were built in a magnum caliber, and and all had pressure issues at Quantico. Perhaps I have said to much up to this point and stirred the pot up to this point so I will shut this down now. These rifles were not off the shelf/production builds. Rifles were built at a very reputable facility, all tested well there, and passed evaluation there with ammo that they were tested with. Ammo supplied at testing on base was of different lots, different lot/different pressures, altitude, temps all come to play as you well know. It is what it is at this point but my facts are hard core and real. I know this on a personal level. As stated before, I appreciate your input.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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Oh I am not at all saying it didn't happen, I am just saying that in my experience that more times than not, any rifle submitted to the USMC for testing normally does not fair well; they are not big fans of buying off the shelf. I am also not saying that the M24's did not have exactly the problem you outline, it surely can happen (that said, I will look into it as now I am curious).

I left RAC in 2016 because it was imploding and I had my fill of the events that were unfolding and during that time things were pretty crazy and I was more concerned with other events so I did not pay attention to domestic MIL sales efforts all that much. While I do have some knowledge about certain MIL acquisition efforts post 2016 it is somewhat limited although I still have sources for certain information.

Someone asked about the CF efforts, now that I do have some knowledge on as I was involved to an extent from the hand guard and barrel side of things but that is another story.
 

USMCSGT0331

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Maybe a silly question, but is the action itself a 700 footprint?
The MSR receiver has a completely different footprint than the 700, which makes me wonder why so many people bid on the MSR RACS chassis when they come up for sale on gunbroker. In the last 2 months, CDNN has sold 5 of the MSR chassis for $900 to $1,300. Brownells also has them listed on their site for $1,400:
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...er-rifle-msr-psr-short-action-prod105917.aspx

Since they don’t fit the 700 receiver, these are as useful as a boat anchor in your gun safe. Loose MSR receivers are nonexistent, so it's nearly impossible to build one (I was able to build my prototype MSR from loose parts and I only know of one other loose receiver). Within the past year I've had 2 people contact me about the chassis after they purchased them from Brownells, even though they make it clear in the description that it won't fit a 700 receiver. Thankfully, for those two people, Brownells has a great return policy!

If anyone here is thinking of buying an MSR chassis for a build, don't do it unless you have an MSR receiver with bolt in hand (and the barrel nut, barrel nut torque wrench and magazines in the same caliber as the bolt head).
 
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RemCustom6

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You might as well be looking for Bigfoot or the super rare gold plated unicorn that magically appears on planet MARS from time to time. I know for a 100% positive fact, there are not enough parts to complete a bare receiver, let alone a complete rifle in the country at this very moment. I know of 2 individuals in the country that have limited/rare parts for the PSR And I doubt either will be coming off of any of those. Not saying you can’t find a part here and there but you may have to travel to MARS to get them. Catch that unicorn while your there.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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We did a number of specialty builds and efforts back in the day, but the MSR/PSR was the most ambitious. I started that effort back around 07 due to some requests we had.

As it relates to the USMC, we did a number of things with them in an attempt to satisfy their desires but it never really worked out. I do not believe it was due to the product as much as it was an institutional issue within the Corps. We did a left hand folding RACS for them once (built 1) for a potential retrofit to the M40A3 but they decided they didn't want it. We built some pistols for submission to the Force Recon pistol program but ended up not submitting because we could not get anywhere near their price projection. Over the years we did a lot of unique things which were cool (right hand bolt, left hand eject was one I worked on). It was fun while it lasted.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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You might as well be looking for Bigfoot or the super rare gold plated unicorn that magically appears on planet MARS from time to time. I know for a 100% positive fact, there are not enough parts to complete a bare receiver, let alone a complete rifle in the country at this very moment. I know of 2 individuals in the country that have limited/rare parts for the PSR And I doubt either will be coming off of any of those. Not saying you can’t find a part here and there but you may have to travel to MARS to get them. Catch that unicorn while your there.
I know more than 2 but we will leave it at that as none are going to come off their stash to include me...
 

RemCustom6

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One thing I would like to know is how many actual rifles were built. I know what amount the contract was stated to be for...... but how many were actually built. I have a very low serial number rifle.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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To be honest, I don't think anyone knows the actual number built because there were a lot of different things going on. If I can ask, what SN do you have? I can probably give you an indication of when it was built
 

RemCustom6

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My NSN marked H59 S&B will be here Monday. Range report will follow shortly after that.
 

tactinstr1SFG

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The MSR was made in May of 2010, however your CSR (as I am sure you know) was/is not a Remington built product, it was made by Extreme and by the looks of it either an early pre-production or a late build. Your MSR is also an pre-production build as all of the production guns start "MSRxxxxx"
 

RemCustom6

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Sorry. My serial number is MSR00278, I had one to many zeros.
 

USMCSGT0331

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My prototype MSR build is finally complete! A buddy was able to track down an original Bartlein MSR barrel and a few magazines. This was an extremely difficult build to pull together, I can't wait to take it to the range! Anyone know where I can find some .338 Lapua ammo?


 

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My prototype MSR build is finally complete! A buddy was able to track down an original Bartlein MSR barrel and a few magazines. This was an extremely difficult build to pull together, I can't wait to take it to the range! Anyone know where I can find some .338 Lapua ammo?


Here you go:


or you can call Andrew at McCourt Munitions and I am sure he can load you generic 338 loading.
 

USMCSGT0331

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Just picked up a bunch of original parts for my MSR build! Regular and magnum size barrel extensions, muzzle brakes, all 3 sizes of bolt heads (2 in 7.62), titanium firing pin, original 7.62 barrel, barrel torque wrench, magazines and magazine block for the 7.62 mags. I have all the major parts for the rifle, except the .300 win mag barrel, which I can have made. This build took a long time, but it saved me a ton of money compared to the commercial MSR packages!


 

RemCustom6

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I got my S&B off of a fellow Hide member via a trade for a mostly complete M40A1 build parts kit.
 
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