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Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

CanadaGoose

Private
Minuteman
Aug 19, 2010
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Hey guys,

I'm a proud owner of a shiny (well, not actually shiny
cool.gif
) new Sako TRG-22. I absolutely love almost everything about this weapon, except the picatinny rail that came glued to the receiver. I was planning to use Sako's 3-ring mount, but it won't fit with the picatinny on.

I consulted a local gunsmith, and he told me that the rail is glued on with either loctite or epoxy. Has anyone run into this issue with a new TRG, and if so, what's the best way to go about removing the rial without scratching up the finish on the receiver?

From what I've been able to research online so far, if it's loctite, I'm in luck, and all it will take is some heat from a small gas torch to loosen it. I have yet to come accross a method to remove it if it's epoxy that won't mangle the gun. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks!
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

After removing the screws use a plastic , hard rubber , or raw hide mallet and hit the base from eighter side. If that dosent work a brass punch on the base will get it off remember to hit in a upward direction b/c the mortice and tennon design of the TRG rails. I would not recomend using a torch unless you have a good ammount of experiance w/ heat. A hair dryer should provide enough to do the job , it will just take longer. Good luck and enjoy.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Thanks for the reply, jbell! What do you mean when you say to hit it in an upward direction? The rail sits in the rexeiver in such a way that I'm not sure how I could hit it "upward." Also, will there be any residue left after the rail is off? If so, what do I use to get that off? I want it looking like new when I'm done with it, if possible. Thanks!
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanadaGoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the reply, jbell! What do you mean when you say to hit it in an upward direction? The rail sits in the rexeiver in such a way that I'm not sure how I could hit it "upward." Also, will there be any residue left after the rail is off? If so, what do I use to get that off? I want it looking like new when I'm done with it, if possible. Thanks! </div></div>As far as I know, the Locktite is applied to the screw threads only. You will want to use heat, otherwise you might strip them. Locktite comes off with a bit of scrubbing.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Dosnt the edge of the picatinny have a recess in it for the rings to bite on? That may be hard to hit w/ a mallet which is why I said a brass punch after thinking about it for a second. Yes there may be some residue on the action , you could try some break cleaner or a product called "goof off" and a plastic scraper or a brass brush. I would also recomend heating up the base w/ a hair dryer first.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as I know, the Locktite is applied to the screw threads only. You will want to use heat, otherwise you might strip them. Locktite comes off with a bit of scrubbing. </div></div>

There is definitely loctite on the screws, they won't budge. But there is also some kind of material between the rail and the receiver. You can see a thin shiny bead of something at the joint.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dosnt the edge of the picatinny have a recess in it for the rings to bite on? That may be hard to hit w/ a mallet which is why I said a brass punch after thinking about it for a second. Yes there may be some residue on the action , you could try some break cleaner or a product called "goof off" and a plastic scraper or a brass brush. I would also recomend heating up the base w/ a hair dryer first. </div></div>

Yeah, the edge is recessed. Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a brass punch?? Thanks!
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

I did look at the Near mounts, and I came accross Spuhr too. They look solid and get good reviews. Here's the rub: I already have the Sako mount. I got it at alocal shop cause I saw that they dropped the price. I didn't realize the rail would be such an issue. Lesson learned.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

I don't think you went awry with the 3 ring, I believe the Sako mount is a good way to go. You just need to heat up the threads enough to get the locktite to release, and then tap the mount off with a brass punch.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

gotcha.. I would personally not attempt to take of the rail but have some pro do it, knowing myself I would strip the screws or f it up some way. Or e-mail Sako and see what input they have. Unless time is an issue.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

You need to take the stock off the barreled action and use a propane torch to heat up screws. They are loctited from factory and trying to remove them within Allen wrench only will strip heads .been there done that. Hand held torch from hardware store work just fine.Take your time and don't hold flame too long on one spot.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

You can get a brass punch set at harbor freight, sears, midway and they look like this:
147183.jpg


blow dryer can work ok for heating it up if you don't have a heat gun.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

If you don't want to heat up the screws directly... heat up an Allen key red hot and then insert in the hex. Then let it cool. Use a different key to remove the screws as you will have eliminated the heat treating.

I broke a screw head in mine when I was remving it. It was a royal pain to drill out (reverse drill). Use heat!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Thanks for all the info, guys! I do have a heat gun, and I'm gonna try that later this week. I say later because the screws are not hex head, they are regular flat head. In doing research for this, I found out that I have to use a hollow ground screwdriver if I don't want to strip the screw, so I've got some ordered from Midway. Now it's back to the waiting game. Considering that I got the gun last week, about 5 months after I decided I was getting one, what's a couple more days, right?
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Don't be tapping straight upward on that rail. It is 'squeezed' onto a pretty thin lipped dovetail, 17mm I believe. Until you can get the rail spread apart far enough, it will still be engatgeed with the dovetail that is milled into the receiver. The base screw spacing is very odd indeed on the TRG's, and the receiver also has indentions milled into it for TRG specific mounts to 'notch' into. When you get the screws off, if the rail is in fact glued to the reciever, you should heat it and tap the rail on an angled approach to free it.

Good luck to you, I appreciate your process--I am actually looking for an alternative to the rail myself, due to the fact that it puts the rings so bloody high up... I like the idea of the ringmounts myself, and am in fact searching for a (reasonably priced) source for them.
I will be calling Near this week to see what options they have--their website is poor IMO.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Rule 53 of gunsmithing: always screw up the least-expensive component (first).

My suggestion would strongly be to put the Sako mount up for sale on the Hide PX, and then go buy one of any number of excellent picatinny-mount scope rings that can drop right on. You won't be destroying the resale value of your rifle, won't risk having to pay someone to remove the rail/repair the receiver should you mess it up, and you're opening yourself up to a huge number of top-quality mounts that are every bit as good, if not better than, the ones you're looking at.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting... mine were metric Allen... Cheers, Sirhr. </div></div>

Now that you mention it, there's another thing that seems a bit odd to me about the gun. The picatinny rail is mounted in such a way that it hangs about an inch over the barrel forward of the receiver. Every picture of a TRG I've ever seen has the rail flush with the receiver. Has anyone else gotten their's from the factory this way? What do you guys think? See the pics below (you can also see the screws). Sorry for the crap quality, all I had handy was my phone.

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b432/CanadaGoose12/photo3.jpg?t=1289804937
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b432/CanadaGoose12/photo1.jpg?t=1289805080
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b432/CanadaGoose12/photo2.jpg?t=1289805127

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rule 53 of gunsmithing: always screw up the least-expensive component (first).

My suggestion would strongly be to put the Sako mount up for sale on the Hide PX, and then go buy one of any number of excellent picatinny-mount scope rings that can drop right on. You won't be destroying the resale value of your rifle, won't risk having to pay someone to remove the rail/repair the receiver should you mess it up, and you're opening yourself up to a huge number of top-quality mounts that are every bit as good, if not better than, the ones you're looking at. </div></div>

Yeah, I hear ya...but I just can't live with the fact that my $2,600+ rifle isn't EXACTLY how I want it. If there's any way I can remove that rail w/o damaging the gun, I am inclined to try it.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

I had the same issue on a TRG with loctite on screws and base. I went to the ironing room and got the iron. Put the gun in a wise and let the iron sit on the base for a while. When base gets hot, try to loosen the screws. Apply more heat if needed. Easy and less risky than to apply a flame...

Worked just fine for me.

I then installed my Spuhr mount.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fish301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't be tapping straight upward on that rail. It is 'squeezed' onto a pretty thin lipped dovetail, 17mm I believe. Until you can get the rail spread apart far enough, it will still be engatgeed with the dovetail that is milled into the receiver. The base screw spacing is very odd indeed on the TRG's, and the receiver also has indentions milled into it for TRG specific mounts to 'notch' into. When you get the screws off, if the rail is in fact glued to the reciever, you should heat it and tap the rail on an angled approach to free it.

Good luck to you, I appreciate your process--I am actually looking for an alternative to the rail myself, due to the fact that it puts the rings so bloody high up... I like the idea of the ringmounts myself, and am in fact searching for a (reasonably priced) source for them.
I will be calling Near this week to see what options they have--their website is poor IMO. </div></div>
Is the factory pic. rail dovetailed onto the actions 17mm dovetail? If so I didnot relise this , I would of thought the factory pic. rail would of used the recoil lugs (mortice and tennons). That is why I said hit in a upward direction.

I did not relise you were having troubel removing the action screws , I thought the base was stuck to the reciver. In this case w/ the slotted screws heat will be needed. Follow the advice above and remove the action from the chassis and get a PROPRER fitting. screw driver. After you are finished let the action air cool. Remember to use a lot of downward pressure on the screw driver and have it fully engaged before any turn.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanadaGoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now that you mention it, there's another thing that seems a bit odd to me about the gun. The picatinny rail is mounted in such a way that it hangs about an inch over the barrel forward of the receiver. Every picture of a TRG I've ever seen has the rail flush with the receiver. Has anyone else gotten their's from the factory this way? What do you guys think? See the pics below (you can also see the screws). Sorry for the crap quality, all I had handy was my phone.

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b432/CanadaGoose12/photo3.jpg?t=1289804937
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b432/CanadaGoose12/photo1.jpg?t=1289805080
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b432/CanadaGoose12/photo2.jpg?t=1289805127

</div></div>

My TRG (20"/DT) that I got about a month ago has the rail mounted in the exact same way. My original plan was to remove the rail and use a Spuhr mount on the dovetail, but if it's going to be a huge pain to do that I'll just get a Near Alphamount with 20 moa built in to run on the factory pic rail.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the factory pic. rail dovetailed onto the actions 17mm dovetail? If so I didnot relise this , I would of thought the factory pic. rail would of used the recoil lugs (mortice and tennons). That is why I said hit in a upward direction.

I did not relise you were having troubel removing the action screws , I thought the base was stuck to the reciver. In this case w/ the slotted screws heat will be needed. Follow the advice above and remove the action from the chassis and get a PROPRER fitting. screw driver. After you are finished let the action air cool. Remember to use a lot of downward pressure on the screw driver and have it fully engaged before any turn. </div></div>

The factory pic. rail is not dovetailed to the receiver, it just sits on top. I tried some of my screwdriver heads on it last night w/o applying torque just to see which one fit. I then measured the thickness of the bit w/calipers. The 3/16" bit, which measured about .030" thick at the tip was just the right size accross but still had just a bit of wiggle room. So I have a Forster #2 3/16" with .032" thickness hollow ground driver ordered from Midway. Should have it in tomorrow. Wish me luck. Will let you guys know how it goes.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had the same issue on a TRG with loctite on screws and base. I went to the ironing room and got the iron. Put the gun in a wise and let the iron sit on the base for a while. When base gets hot, try to loosen the screws. Apply more heat if needed. Easy and less risky than to apply a flame...

Worked just fine for me.

I then installed my Spuhr mount. </div></div>

Are you talking about just a clothing iron? That's not a bad idea. I do feel kind of nervous about taking my torch to this thing. I was also thinking of setting the soldering iron lengthwise on top of the rail and letting it heat up for a bit. Was there a lot of residue left on the receiver after you took the rail off? If so, how'd you remove it? Thanks!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bryanZ06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My TRG (20"/DT) that I got about a month ago has the rail mounted in the exact same way. My original plan was to remove the rail and use a Spuhr mount on the dovetail, but if it's going to be a huge pain to do that I'll just get a Near Alphamount with 20 moa built in to run on the factory pic rail. </div></div>

I was really considering going with the Near mount too, but one of the things that made up my mind is the rail hanging over the receiver like that. With all the sharp corners, I just know it's gonna be snagging and ripping everything in sight.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

A soldering Iron works equally good to.
Personally I always use the torch as its faster but the soldering iron is a really good solution.

I can't understand the idea about having a picatinny on a TRG, really feels like putting cheapest tires on a formula one car.....

Håkan
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't understand the idea about having a picatinny on a TRG, really feels like putting cheapest tires on a formula one car.....</div></div>

My thoughts exactly!
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanadaGoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bryanZ06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My TRG (20"/DT) that I got about a month ago has the rail mounted in the exact same way. My original plan was to remove the rail and use a Spuhr mount on the dovetail, but if it's going to be a huge pain to do that I'll just get a Near Alphamount with 20 moa built in to run on the factory pic rail. </div></div>

I was really considering going with the Near mount too, but one of the things that made up my mind is the rail hanging over the receiver like that. With all the sharp corners, I just know it's gonna be snagging and ripping everything in sight. </div></div>

Good point. The Spuhr mount is my top choice, but the Near was and still is a "back-up" plan. I'll be checking back in for your update.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanadaGoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had the same issue on a TRG with loctite on screws and base. I went to the ironing room and got the iron. Put the gun in a wise and let the iron sit on the base for a while. When base gets hot, try to loosen the screws. Apply more heat if needed. Easy and less risky than to apply a flame...

Worked just fine for me.

I then installed my Spuhr mount. </div></div>

Are you talking about just a clothing iron? That's not a bad idea. I do feel kind of nervous about taking my torch to this thing. I was also thinking of setting the soldering iron lengthwise on top of the rail and letting it heat up for a bit. Was there a lot of residue left on the receiver after you took the rail off? If so, how'd you remove it? Thanks!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bryanZ06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My TRG (20"/DT) that I got about a month ago has the rail mounted in the exact same way. My original plan was to remove the rail and use a Spuhr mount on the dovetail, but if it's going to be a huge pain to do that I'll just get a Near Alphamount with 20 moa built in to run on the factory pic rail. </div></div>

I was really considering going with the Near mount too, but one of the things that made up my mind is the rail hanging over the receiver like that. With all the sharp corners, I just know it's gonna be snagging and ripping everything in sight. </div></div>

Yes, I used an ordinary clothing iron. Real easy. Just put it on top of the base. Iron surface is flat so you get good contact with the base for good heat transfer. I did not get much residue left. There was only a thin film of loctite in the first place, and it kind of decomposes from the heat. Just wipe it off with a cleaning patch or similar.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanadaGoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The factory pic. rail is not dovetailed to the receiver, it just sits on top. I tried some of my screwdriver heads on it last night w/o applying torque just to see which one fit. I then measured the thickness of the bit w/calipers. The 3/16" bit, which measured about .030" thick at the tip was just the right size accross but still had just a bit of wiggle room. So I have a Forster #2 3/16" with .032" thickness hollow ground driver ordered from Midway. Should have it in tomorrow. Wish me luck. Will let you guys know how it goes. </div></div>

Any updates yet?
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Had the same problem recentley. Soaked in Kroil overnight then useing a propane torch and lots of heat directly to the screw heads, and the correct flathead bit, they came out easily.
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Well, the deed is done. It was a lot like making love for the first time: you're all nervous and excited before, not sure if you're doing it right during, and feel great and relieved after, wondering what all the fuss was about
smirk.gif


Anywhoo, I tried the iron idea, and that got one of the screws out but the others wouldn't budge even after 10 minutes of "ironing." Then I got ballsy and took my propane torch to it. The screws came out with minimal effort. I used a Forster 3/16" x 0.32" hollow ground scredriver. It fit like a glove.

As advised, I then tapped the rail upward with a brass punch till it came off. There was only one unforseen snag. Besides the screws, the rail had two little pins (recoil stops?) loctited in. One of these came out with the rail, but the other stayed in the receiver. I was horrified at first since it offered very little length to grip with pliers or the like, but then I calmed down and clamped a small vice grip onto it. With a little more heat and a gentle twist, the thing came right out.

I managed to do the whole procedure without a single scuff on the finish of the gun and only one tiny scratch on the rail. I did end up with a lot of residue on the receiver. While the screws were definitely loctited in, it looks like the flat surfaces were epoxied. The stuff is clear and shiny, not ashy white like loctite. From what I've read online, the stuff comes off with acetone (nail polish remover), so I'm going to try that tomorrow.

Some tips if you're going to do this:

1. Make sure to get the hollow ground screwdriver. Even with the proper driver, it was touch and go on some of the screws. I am convinced that I would have stripped the screw heads had I used a regular tapered driver or even some of "gunsmithing" drivers you can find. The Forster fit the bill exactly. A lot of products claim to be hollow ground, but really aren't. You can tell a real hollow ground screwdriver by the fact that it gets just a bit thinner just north of the very tip before thickening out into the shaft.

2. Apply plenty of downward pressure WHILE you apply torque to the screws. I gripped the driver in one fist and then rested my cheek on top of the fist and pressed down as I turned. This keeps the tip in good contact at the bottom of the screw slot.

3. Wrap the brass punch in a towel or other thick cloth before tapping on the rail. This kept the finish on my gun spotless.

4. If you get a pin stuck in the receiver once the rail comes off, just put a pair of small vice grips on it parallel to the receiver and twist back and forth while applying upward pressure and heating with a torch. This sounds a lot more complicated than it really is. It's not that tough. You just have to make sure to attach the vice grips a milemeter or so above the receiver so you don't scuff it.

I finally got my Sako mount on there and did a trial fit of my Nightforce 5.5-22. Looks scary!

That's all I got for now. Will update on getting the residue off. Thanks for all the advice!
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Well, the acetone did the trick...mostly. From a foot away, the gun looks like it just came out of the box. If you look closely, though, there are a couple of small patches of sheen left.

I don't think acetone is quite the right solvent for whatever this crap is they used, and it is some seriously stubborn crap! It took a 20 minute soak in an acetone bath followed by about an hour of scrubbing with a nylon brush (I'm OCD...er...persistent like that
crazy.gif
) to get it to the point it's at now. It did get MOST of the stuff off (and I wish I had before pics for comparison, but trust me, it wasn't pretty), but I would love to know what this stuff is so I can use the proper solvent and get it looking really prestine.

So...anyone know what exactly this crap is that Sako uses?

One note: if you're going to use acetone, don't freak out when it turns your metal gray (I sure did). Maybe you chemists out there can explain why this happens, but soaking the gun for a while turned it grey for about 2 or 3 minutes. Acetone evaporates really quickly, so I really don't know why this happens or why it went away. It only happened after the soak and not when I was scrubbing w/an acetone soaked brush.

Anyway, thanks again for all the advice and if anyone knows what Sako's glue is, I'd love to know!

10wv4fa.jpg


24yofwj.jpg
 
Re: Removing stock picatinny from TRG-22

Reviving an old topic because I have something useful to add. I had Eurooptic remove the rail before shipping me a rifle I purchased through them because I wanted to use the dovetail interface. I was warned there would be residue on the rail where the picatinny rail interfaced.

I removed 100% of the stuff with "aircraft remover", basically an uber concentrated paint stripper that's mostly methylene chloride according to the MSDS sheets. You can pick them up from any auto parts store or pro paint/finishing center. I've used it to chemically strip powdercoating too.

For the epoxy, I just globbed it on thick with a q-tip. Keep it thick so it doesn't evaporate and dry out because it's a volatile compound. Wait 10 minutes, and scrub any of the swollen/bubbly stuff with a nylon brush. Wipe clean, wipe with alcohol, let dry, and apply more aircraft stripper. Repeat until the stuff is completely gone. It should all be gone after a few applications. Make sure to clean out or plug the screw holes so none of the gunk ends up in the chamber.

The Sako glue is some sort of epoxy but methylene chloride is your friend. Just don't use it in an enclosed space. There are some OSHA cases where folks (mostly contractors doing bathtub refinishing) have died using it in enclosed spaces. It gets absorbed into your bloodstream through the lungs and also breaks down into carbon monoxide. It isn't as deadly as it sounds if used with common sense like any other stinky chemical.
 
Following up an additional 9 years later . . .

I have a "Post 2013" phosphate TRG 42. I was concerned about the hammer approach because there were two "pins" in addition to the screws. I had no problem removing the screws, but the rail was fairly stuck. I took a rubber hammer (emphasis on RUBBER), and gave the rail a few "vertical" (as much as possible) hits and the rail came loose on the back. I then struck the front side a couple of times and that came loose. I pulled it up over the pins, which were still in the action.

So, I cordless drill (no bit) and locked the chuck onto the pins as though it were a drill bit. I made sure the chuck was very tight. Then, on very low speed I reversed the drill (probably doesn't matter which direction) and the pin removed very easily. I installed the new canted rail.
 
Sorry to bring this old thread up, but I am having a hard time get rid of the epoxy residue. I tried "aircraft remover" and had repeated soak/clean at least 10 times, it won't budge.
I did a search on "methylene chloride" and seems this stuff is no longer being used in paint stripper or maybe being phased out?
Anyone did remove the epoxy successfully recently please share what you used.

Thanks