Replacing the barrel on my Medium weight 14.5 inch run and gun upper

[faylix]

Thinking ahead to this summer, I want to replace the barrel on my run and gun upper.

Currently she has an odin works 14.5 pencil barrel in 223 wylde. I'd like to stick with the 223 wylde setup.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

- V7 14.5 inch barrel in regular weight (interested in them after reading about them here)

- Noveske 14.5 afghan ( expensive but excellent)

- proof - carbon or SS (heard many good things)

- criterion (no first hand knowledge)

- Something from Knights? - I'm no KAC fanboy, I don't even know if you can get just a KAC barrel - but they always do excellent in 3rd party testing.

What am I missing? What other barrels should I look at? Accuracy is great, the ability to run hard and be put away wet is also pretty high on the list. I'll be running an adjustable gas block and probably a surefire comp and blast diverter.

I recently picked up a WOA barrel for my 20" AR and love it. I don't see anything shorter than a 16 inch on WOA's website though.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

What's wrong with the Odin? I've generally heard good things about them.
For your purposes I'd be looking at a Criterion CORE if I was dead set on a new barrel.

 

[Redlion]

SOLGW would be a solid choice as well.

 

[BCP]

What's wrong with whatever you have right now?

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Black Friday Barrels - 10.5

Black Friday Barrels - 10.5", 12.5", and 14.7" *** Black Friday Barrel Special *** Limited Run *** This is a limited run of 10.5, 12.5 and 14.7 inch barrels. We do not normally carry these lengths so now is the chance to get your short barrel from Wh

www.whiteoakarmament.com

 

[faylix]

What's wrong with whatever you have right now?

What's wrong with the Odin? I've generally heard good things about them.
For your purposes I'd be looking at a Criterion CORE if I was dead set on a new barrel.

It's pretty shot out at this point. Served as my summer blaster for close to three years now. For a short period of time it even ran with three holes. It did classes, I used it to advertise our shop, let customers shoot it, my buddies borrowed her for carbine classes.

Don't get me wrong it did excellent service. I even put a 1-10x on it for a while and experimented with it at 200 yards. She did great at everything I asked her to do. I just think it's time to retire her and try something else now.


I like SOLGW, I even have a personal connection with the owner. I just didn't think their barrels were all that special - more broadsword than rapier.

I'm def open to hearing more about them.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I like SOLGW, I even have a personal connection with the owner. I just didn't think their barrels were all that special - more broadsword than rapier.

Thats my understanding of them as well.

 

[BCP]

If you shoot it that much I'd get a chrome lined

11.5, 14.5, whatever brand you like

Probably get 6 years out of it or more

For a snowflake barrel I'd try out one of the noveske stainless they have a few on sale at midway right now

 

[TonyAngel]

I like the criterion barrels. They behave themselves well when the get hot and they're pretty dang accurate. I have two core barrels and two hybrid barrels. Overall, I prefer the hybrid barrels. They hold a tighter group longer and are a smidgen more accurate.

Of course, these days, you could get anything from a wide range of manufacturers and be good to go. My preference for hard use is chrome lined.

 

[hewlett260]

V7 barrels are awesome. I have three of them. The two 14.5's started life as 16's. I had them cut to 14.5 and threaded 5/8x24 to maintain a little more metal around the muzzle. Pinned and welded the V7 Furion on both.

The 18" is the least accurate of the three shoots average 10 round groups of 3/4" at 100 yards. Mine all seem to like 77gn Matchkings loaded by every manufacturer that uses them in factory ammo and my 69 gn hand loads keep my bolt guns honest out to 500 yards.

I have had way better luck with V7 than Noveske

 

[RUTGERS95]

have you considered centurion arms?

 

[black5.3]

My 14.5” criterion core barrel shoots everything really well. It shoots right at moa with cheap pmc bronze 55gr fmj.

 

[DHDeal]

While my Criterion Hybrid doesn't shoot as small of groups as my Proof, it does have only a 1-8 with a thick reticle compared to the Proof's 5-22 MOAR-T. It will shoot under an inch for 5 at 100 so I am not unhappy.

Someone else mentioned the Criterion barrels behave and that is my opinion too. I have never run a skinny barrel so can't offer any opinion on the CORE but I won't hesitate to buy another Criterion.

My main reason for the Criterion Hybrid was because I always wanted to try one due to reputation and because you can get a 16" RLGS which mine is. If I wanted a pencil barrel due to mental deficiency, I probably would get the CORE but you can't get a manly RLGS on it.

I have also had a pair of good shooting Odin barrels so they would be on my list if I were undecided.

 

[thedude824]

I wholeheartedly recommend Criterion. I’ve got a good buddy that is just very cheap. When I built him his first AR I gave him a Faxon gunner that I had on for a week before my Criterion arrived. My Hybrid shoots incredibly a couple years later meanwhile his groups are definitely opening up. He shoots ALOT. I will probably end up buying the Criterion Core for him for his birthday and installing it. They make a fantastic run and gun or high use barrel. Mine shoots 0.8 MOA with 77 grain handloads.

 

[faylix]

Bringing this thread back from the dead rather than creating another one.

I got a great deal on a criterion hybrid 16inch rifle length gas block. I'm still breaking it in but it hasn't had the best accuracy.... maybe 1 - 1.5 moa at 100 yards from a prone rested position. It does shoot super soft and feels great when I'm moving around with it. Ringing steel at 100 yards while standing or moving seems to be pretty easy with this setup.

Now, I've always loved the VLTOR uppers for some reason, and I won a major case recently (a client who suffered a major dog bite at her employers house) so I was thinking of finally treating myself to a proof carbon fiber barrel. I ordered the VLTOR upper receiver and their new rail and.... No matter how much money I made recently, spending $1000 on an AR barrel is a big ask. I got to thinking - can it really be that much better than a white oak barrel?

So.. *record scratch* I ordered a 16" fluted SDM barrel in 223 wylde from white oak with a matching bolt. Less than 1/2 the price.

Now I have to decide, which setup (16" criterion hybrid RLGS vs 16" White Oak SDM fluted MLGS) do I use as a 1x red dot run and gun, and which one do I use as a scout setup with my plxc 1-8x optic?

I'm leaning towards the criterion going in the VLTOR upper and rail and sliding the new white oak in my Larue (semi)monolithic upper and rail. Is that sacrilege?

Picture of current Scout setup for help:
PLXC 1-8x FFP, Unity mount, anti reflection device and scope caps from 100 concepts.
Larue ultimate upper, adj gas block, RLGS, surefire light and comp, JP captured buffer, SOLGW BCG and Radian ambi CH,
Aero M4E1 Lower receiver, American gold Trigger, Driven arms co grip, b5 stock, bag rider, cheek piece

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The Criterion seems to have acceptable accuracy for R&G and it'll survive higher round counts and abuse much better than an SS barrel. So that's where I'd put it.

 

[faylix]

Of course white oak just called me to say the barrel they thought they had in stock was mislabeled. Now they are gonna rush make me one.

I asked for a rlgs instead of a mid length - anything else I should ask for?

 

[WeR0206]

Bringing this thread back from the dead rather than creating another one.

I got a great deal on a criterion hybrid 16inch rifle length gas block. I'm still breaking it in but it hasn't had the best accuracy.... maybe 1 - 1.5 moa at 100 yards from a prone rested position. It does shoot super soft and feels great when I'm moving around with it. Ringing steel at 100 yards while standing or moving seems to be pretty easy with this setup.

Now, I've always loved the VLTOR uppers for some reason, and I won a major case recently (a client who suffered a major dog bite at her employers house) so I was thinking of finally treating myself to a proof carbon fiber barrel. I ordered the VLTOR upper receiver and their new rail and.... No matter how much money I made recently, spending $1000 on an AR barrel is a big ask. I got to thinking - can it really be that much better than a white oak barrel?

So.. *record scratch* I ordered a 16" fluted SDM barrel in 223 wylde from white oak with a matching bolt. Less than 1/2 the price.

Now I have to decide, which setup (16" criterion hybrid RLGS vs 16" White Oak SDM fluted MLGS) do I use as a 1x red dot run and gun, and which one do I use as a scout setup with my plxc 1-8x optic?

I'm leaning towards the criterion going in the VLTOR upper and rail and sliding the new white oak in my Larue (semi)monolithic upper and rail. Is that sacrilege?

View attachment 8691640

Picture of current Scout setup for help:
PLXC 1-8x FFP, Unity mount, anti reflection device and scope caps from 100 concepts.
Larue ultimate upper, adj gas block, RLGS, surefire light and comp, JP captured buffer, SOLGW BCG and Radian ambi CH,
Aero M4E1 Lower receiver, American gold Trigger, Driven arms co grip, b5 stock, bag rider, cheek piece

Heads up that I have a 16” core barrel and Vltor MUR upper and the fit to the upper is very sloppy. Def needs shim/bedding for best accuracy but for R&G you’d be fine

 

[faylix]

Heads up that I have a 16” core barrel and Vltor MUR upper and the fit to the upper is very sloppy. Def needs shim/bedding for best accuracy but for R&G you’d be fine

Not exactly what I want to hear about a $500 combo.

What ended up working for you?

 

[WeR0206]

Not exactly what I want to hear about a $500 combo.

What ended up working for you?

Yeah I was pretty bummed. I tried the core barrel in a demo bcm upper (thermofit) and the sloppy Vltor upper and there wasn’t really a difference in accuracy (1.5-2” 10 shot groups at 100 yds with 77 smk handloads) with the same 13” kak handguard. I ended up getting a third upper which was a SOLGW forged and a different barrel -> Craddock RTR 16 inch MK 12 mod H barrel and solgw m89 rail. I’m gonna see how this combo works and I will use the core barrel as a back up/spare. I was getting close to finding an accuracy node for the core barrel so maybe when I have some more time and enough components I will give it another try by bedding it into a spare upper and see if that helps.

Gonna use the Vltor upper on a 6 arc build and use a shim. Once solgw broadsword uppers are back in stock I will swap that in for the Vltor (I want to pair both my SOLGW m89 rails with solgw uppers). Here’s the vltor upper with the PVA Osprey 6 arc barrel:

The below is my best set of groups for the core barrel in about 300 shots:

 

[faylix]

I tried a range of ammo to try and find what worked for my criterion barrel.



The type lines up with the target in vertical lines. 100 yards from a prone rested position.



This was with the Larue Ultimate upper. Going to throw my white oak barrel in there when she comes.

I just ordered one of those hand lapping tools for the ar. Maybe I can make the VLTOR stuff work.

Thats really too bad. I built a rifle for a client a long time ago and loved the look of the VLTOR stuff. I probably should have read up on it before I spent my money on it.

 

[WeR0206]

I tried a range of ammo to try and find what worked for my criterion barrel.

View attachment 8691983

The type lines up with the target in vertical lines. 100 yards from a prone rested position.

View attachment 8691984

This was with the Larue Ultimate upper. Going to throw my white oak barrel in there when she comes.

I just ordered one of those hand lapping tools for the ar. Maybe I can make the VLTOR stuff work.

Thats really too bad. I built a rifle for a client a long time ago and loved the look of the VLTOR stuff. I probably should have read up on it before I spent my money on it.

Nice. Let me know how it goes. I also bought a lapping tool (pacific tool & gauge) that I will use on my builds going fwd as well.

The finish/machine work on the MUR was very nice but to give you an idea of how loose it was, the inner diameter of where the barrel extension slides in measured at 1.003”. This was about a 4 thou delta to the core’s barrel extension diameter. When I slid the core barrel in it was like a hotdog going down a hallway. Keep in mind this is a sample size of one though and I think a shim/bedding would have tightened it up maybe an extra 0.25 to 0.5 inches

 

[TonyAngel]

Bringing this thread back from the dead rather than creating another one.

I got a great deal on a criterion hybrid 16inch rifle length gas block. I'm still breaking it in but it hasn't had the best accuracy.... maybe 1 - 1.5 moa at 100 yards from a prone rested position. It does shoot super soft and feels great when I'm moving around with it. Ringing steel at 100 yards while standing or moving seems to be pretty easy with this setup.

Now, I've always loved the VLTOR uppers for some reason, and I won a major case recently (a client who suffered a major dog bite at her employers house) so I was thinking of finally treating myself to a proof carbon fiber barrel. I ordered the VLTOR upper receiver and their new rail and.... No matter how much money I made recently, spending $1000 on an AR barrel is a big ask. I got to thinking - can it really be that much better than a white oak barrel?

So.. *record scratch* I ordered a 16" fluted SDM barrel in 223 wylde from white oak with a matching bolt. Less than 1/2 the price.

Now I have to decide, which setup (16" criterion hybrid RLGS vs 16" White Oak SDM fluted MLGS) do I use as a 1x red dot run and gun, and which one do I use as a scout setup with my plxc 1-8x optic?

I'm leaning towards the criterion going in the VLTOR upper and rail and sliding the new white oak in my Larue (semi)monolithic upper and rail. Is that sacrilege?

View attachment 8691640

Picture of current Scout setup for help:
PLXC 1-8x FFP, Unity mount, anti reflection device and scope caps from 100 concepts.
Larue ultimate upper, adj gas block, RLGS, surefire light and comp, JP captured buffer, SOLGW BCG and Radian ambi CH,
Aero M4E1 Lower receiver, American gold Trigger, Driven arms co grip, b5 stock, bag rider, cheek piece

I don't want to assume anything, so I'm going to ask. Do you have much experience shooting groups with the PLXc?

I can't shoot groups with a chevron to save my life. What you could try is dialing the elevation down 1 mil or 3 moa or so and use the finer crossbar as an aiming point. See if that helps you to be more precise.

My "SPR" is based on a 16" Criterion hybrid midlength barrel. It shoots very well. Although no chronelined barrel that I'm aware of will shoot to match precision standards, Criterion usually shoot very well. Of the six that I have, 4 are stellar and two are just meh.

What I really like about the Criterions is that they keep their composure as they heat up. Yes, I've shot many 3 and 5 round sub MOA groups, but what I find particularly impressive is that it will put 30 successive rounds well into the confines of a 2" target at 100 yards. I'll take a barrel that will shoot into 1.5 moa when it's smokin hot over a barrel that will shoot 3 or 5 shot .5 moa groups, but falls apart when it gets hot.

If you want precision, maybe get a barreled upper from someone that will thermal fit and glue the barrel into a prepped upper. Craddock does good work with Bartlein barrels.

As for Vltor uppers, I've tried a few and none of them impressed me. I jave no aversion to using Loctite 620, but if an upper is sloppy enough that shims will fit, I get another upper.

 

[faylix]

I don't want to assume anything, so I'm going to ask. Do you have much experience shooting groups with the PLXc?

I can't shoot groups with a chevron to save my life. What you could try is dialing the elevation down 1 mil or 3 moa or so and use the finer crossbar as an aiming point. See if that helps you to be more precise.

My "SPR" is based on a 16" Criterion hybrid midlength barrel. It shoots very well. Although no chronelined barrel that I'm aware of will shoot to match precision standards, Criterion usually shoot very well. Of the six that I have, 4 are stellar and two are just meh.

What I really like about the Criterions is that they keep their composure as they heat up. Yes, I've shot many 3 and 5 round sub MOA groups, but what I find particularly impressive is that it will put 30 successive rounds well into the confines of a 2" target at 100 yards. I'll take a barrel that will shoot into 1.5 moa when it's smokin hot over a barrel that will shoot 3 or 5 shot .5 moa groups, but falls apart when it gets hot.

If you want precision, maybe get a barreled upper from someone that will thermal fit and glue the barrel into a prepped upper. Craddock does good work with Bartlein barrels.

As for Vltor uppers, I've tried a few and none of them impressed me. I jave no aversion to using Loctite 620, but if an upper is sloppy enough that shims will fit, I get another upper.

Not so much in an accuracy build, but I used the primary arms 1x Chevron optics on a lot of guns that I've run around with.



This is a test target at 100 yards prone with the plxc that I ran when I had my old Larue barrel. It was shot to hell but it still grouped up pretty well even when heated up.

I really like the plxc for what it is, a light little run and gun optic that can still reach out and touch someone occasionally.

Its certainly no element theos, DNT or Cronus (my other optics) but it has excellent glass and it's very bright.