Review of the Leapers Over-Bore Bipod

[Goathead1096]

Leapers UTG OTB Bipod

hands on testing of the Leapers UTG over bore bipod

coldboremiracle.com

 

[_Windrider_]

150 bucks? That should tell you all you need to know right there. I’d spend the extra coin on an elite iron before buying this I don’t even recall the article saying what it’s made of.
Hard pass.

 

[Goathead1096]

Under $150, and I paid $70. Based on that review from a guy who isnt easy on equipment, how does $150 tell me all I need to know? It doesn't cost $300 so it's automatically garbage. The elitist attitude that is overwhelming our sport is getting ridiculous. There was a time when everyone considered Bushnell garbage, and now its standard knowledge that they put out quality gear. Why cant we accept that companies can evolve?
Oh, and it's made of aluminum and steel with a lifetime warranty.

 

[coldboremiracle]

150 bucks? That should tell you all you need to know right there. I’d spend the extra coin on an elite iron before buying this I don’t even recall the article saying what it’s made of.
Hard pass.

I know exactly how you feel, because I felt the same way, But I like this bipod.
I have the EI and the 4H, both of them are nice, and I wouldn't doubt they are stronger. But for the money they damn well better be. I like the 4H way more than the EI, but honestly for function and general purpose use, I like the UTG more than the EI. To be clear, not saying its better, or even stronger, just I like using it more. And plenty robust for the average guys use.

 

[_Windrider_]

Under $150, and I paid $70. Based on that review from a guy who isnt easy on equipment, how does $150 tell me all I need to know? It doesn't cost $300 so it's automatically garbage. The elitist attitude that is overwhelming our sport is getting ridiculous. There was a time when everyone considered Bushnell garbage, and now its standard knowledge that they put out quality gear. Why cant we accept that companies can evolve?
Oh, and it's made of aluminum and steel with a lifetime warranty.

It’s not elitist. It’s a matter of the simple question.......will this product function like it’s supposed to when I need to every time.

have you ever relied on a weapon system for your life in the past or currently? I don’t look at equipment from a fun day at the range with my boys, I look at it from a would I trust my life to it.

it may very well be a decent product, but the Harris is cheaper. The military relied on the Harris for far too long. They finally woke up.

you get what you pay for. Check back with me after a few thousand rounds with it with some big bore calibers, some comps and a few hunting trips. Oh and Pan is not a feature I look for in a bipod. But that’s just me. It seems to me you bought a product and are look for justification of that purchase, instead you should be doing research before you buy and you will quickly learn from the 300 or so threads on bipods that cheap don’t go round here. No one recommends a magpul bipod. No one recommends a Harris.

im not knocking the product, it fills a void. I’m just saying hard pass. Made in China ain’t for me.

@coldboremiracle, good article. Well written. Any comment I have isn’t toward the article or OP, just the product.

 

[Goathead1096]

It’s not elitist. It’s a matter of the simple question.......will this product function like it’s supposed to when I need to every time.

have you ever relied on a weapon system for your life in the past or currently? I don’t look at equipment from a fun day at the range with my boys, I look at it from a would I trust my life to it.

it may very well be a decent product, but the Harris is cheaper. The military relied on the Harris for far too long. They finally woke up.

you get what you pay for. Check back with me after a few thousand rounds with it with some big bore calibers, some comps and a few hunting trips. Oh and Pan is not a feature I look for in a bipod. But that’s just me. It seems to me you bought a product and are look for justification of that purchase, instead you should be doing research before you buy and you will quickly learn from the 300 or so threads on bipods that cheap don’t go round here. No one recommends a magpul bipod. No one recommends a Harris.

im not knocking the product, it fills a void. I’m just saying hard pass. Made in China ain’t for me.

@coldboremiracle, good article. Well written. Any comment I have isn’t toward the article or OP, just the product.

No part of that review gave you any indication of the long term quality of the bipod. You're certainly correct that a new product needs time to prove itself...just like Atlas and Elite Iron have. It takes someone to purchase and use the item to gather information on longevity. All of the products that we use today have either built a reputation or failed to. Price is not always an indicator of quality, there are plenty of products out there that aren't worth a shit to anyone that isn't a brand whore. I'm not looking for validation about the bipod, $70 was well worth a look. I have no stake in the bipod, but you have no basis to dismiss it either. (Outside of the pan feature, which is certainly valid.) I see this attitude thread after thread, where someone bags on a product with little to no information to back it up.

 

[coldboremiracle]

@coldboremiracle, good article. Well written. Any comment I have isn’t toward the article or OP, just the product.

I understand, no offense taken. And for the record, I have never had to depend on my shooting gear in life or death. And Id assume that the huge majority of people who use the exact same gear dont rely on it to save lives. Most people dont do goon shit, and the only tangos they've downed are Cheeto fingered operators operating out of their Mom's basement.
The people who do rely on their gear in life or death situations already know what they want, or are too OAF to care.
i dont pitch towards that crowd.
I stay in my lane, which is for people who like to shoot and kill shit within the law and these United States. And for that, there aint a damn thing wrong with buying whatever fits your style and budget, nobody's gonna die because Carl bought a cheap bipod, or runs a Taurus 1911. I understand your point, like I said and wrote, I was not expecting to like this thing, but it was a breath of fresh air.
who knows, maybe it craps out? Maybe it doesn't, but never know without trying. Im sure somebody thought Harris's were a stupid idea at some point, and yet here they are, years later with hardly an innovation to their credit?

 

[Kasey]

Let me know where I can buy one.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Let me know where I can buy one.

Theres links in the story

 

[Kasey]

no longer on Leapers website, found one though, thank you!

 

[_Windrider_]

no longer on Leapers website, found one though, thank you!

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

I just picked up the UTG big bore bipod, the undermount version of that.... I haven’t shot with it yet, but initial impressions are impressive. Very robust, lowest heigh setting gives me 14inches of Width. The pan and can locking is great. Big question is obviously
How long will it last. Time will tell

 

[6.5texas.shooter]

I bought one of these as well, after reading your article. For $120... worth a shot.

I’m going to let it eat on a barrett mrad in 338 lm for a few hundred rounds and follow back up.

BUT, first impressions... I like it more than the Atlas 5h. Easier to use as well.

I have an LRA light tactical, and a Cadex Falcon on the way to give some comparisons.

I’m not a fanboy or anything like that of high end names. I shoot and use what works.... I’m humbled by this bipod though....
we we see how it holds up in function and build.

 

[Crews]

I have been hearing a lot lately about UTG picking up efforts and making stuff that isn’t junk. Thanks for the review.

Aren’t they actually making some of this new stuff in America?

 

[Goathead1096]

I have been hearing a lot lately about UTG picking up efforts and making stuff that isn’t junk. Thanks for the review.

Aren’t they actually making some of this new stuff in America?

They are making some products here, but I'm not sure if this falls under that category. This is my first UTG product, so I hope it holds up.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Pretty sure all UTG Pro stuff is american made.

 

[MarinePMI]

If @Kasey (B&T) built something similar (but with Atlas legs, that keep the legs locks out of the mud), I'd be interested. I've often wondered why there aren't more bipods like this design to take advantage of that NV bridge everyone sports (but few have NV). Just thinking out loud here Kasey...

 

[Sticks]

I got one as well. You don't appreciate how beefy it is until it's in your hand.

You can use it on a NV bridge, but if you are using low scope rings, then the top of the mount will be about the middle of your optic. I can see a little ghost at the bottom quarter but no black spot or full obstruction.

The max rifle height is also lower than most 6-9" biopds max height.

I did some tweaking and it's now and under mount. It has a little flex in it at the panning pivot point. Just wish there was a spiked foot option. Something else I am going to have to tweak. Going to run it at the SRM this weekend on my Grendel AR, then if it survives (I have a tendency to really load the bipod), then will try it at the magnum match the next month under my MPA 6.5 PRC.

I keep forgetting to mount it with a standard under mount bipod to show the diff.

 

[Goathead1096]

I got one as well. You don't appreciate how beefy it is until it's in your hand.

You can use it on a NV bridge, but if you are using low scope rings, then the top of the mount will be about the middle of your optic. I can see a little ghost at the bottom quarter but no black spot or full obstruction.

The max rifle height is also lower than most 6-9" biopds max height.

I did some tweaking and it's now and under mount. It has a little flex in it at the panning pivot point. Just wish there was a spiked foot option. Something else I am going to have to tweak. Going to run it at the SRM this weekend on my Grendel AR, then if it survives (I have a tendency to really load the bipod), then will try it at the magnum match the next month under my MPA 6.5 PRC.

I keep forgetting to mount it with a standard under mount bipod to show the diff.

I'd be interested to see the alterations that you made.

 

[Sticks]

I'd be interested to see the alterations that you made.

Picture of the mount and cant tensioner. They installed pins to keep it from unscrewing and falling out. Also 3 decent recoil lugs with two mounting screws.

Quick release lever for the mini spigot mount. You have to have the cant tension mostly loosened up to release. There is also a pin (red locktite set screw) that limits the panning into a machined "V" in the mount and a friction gasket (not pictured) to keep it slow and smooth.

The pan mechanism disassembled. 2 rubber gaskets provide the smooth L/R panning and also the source of the flex when loading.

I was initially hoping that I could simple flip the spigot mount over, but the machining in the bracket and the pin prevents that, and I could not get the setscrew broken free.

Simply flipping the spigot mount over works to a point, but a lot more flex.

This flat head screw is what attaches the spigot mount (oval shaped) into the eye .

Pin removed

Eye removed ((pry/tapping - very snug fit). Now simply flip the eye over and installation is reverse of removal. Sucks getting that hole perfectly centered to get the threads started on the pin.

 

[Sticks]

Bipod held up fine, I however did not.

I've always had to extend my other bipod legs fully to get a decent FFP and some of the targets at higher angles I would find it easier to pull my pack over and shoot off of that. These legs with the under mount conversion were almost too tall on a couple of the stages.

Next month I'll be back behind my PRC and we'll see how they hold up under the additional 10lbs of weight and recoil.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I like the concept; but I don't like the weight or the cost.

I recently reviewed LL's workup on Bipods. I buy into the points, but I'm never going to get that kind of purchase past the Chancelor-ess of the Exchequer (AKA SWMBO). One of my main takeaways was the idea of getting the bore axis well down below the apex of the triangle.

So, I set about a lookabout to find out if something suitable might be priced more within my realm of the possible. I came up with this, interestingly also from UTG. It meets with my above criterion, pretty definitely.

It mounts really solid. It stows really snug. With five different setpoints; it's versatile, and can be carried without all of that customary snaggage up front. It's quite light. The repositioning, once it's been done a few times, is really quick, really simple, and pretty logical.

When stowed, it does not interfere with the use of a rest.

It has a taller brother, which I'm eyeing for use on my PA-10, which uses taller magazines.

I'm aiming on making these my basic bipod setup on my M-LOK AR'S.

Just thought this might be a good place to tuck in a blurb...

Greg

 

[coldboremiracle]

I like the concept; but I don't like the weight or the cost.

I recently reviewed LL's workup on Bipods. I buy into the points, but I'm never going to get that kind of purchase past the Chancelor-ess of the Exchequer (AKA SWMBO). One of my main takeaways was the idea of getting the bore axis well down below the apex of the triangle.

So, I set about a lookabout to find out if something suitable might be priced more within my realm of the possible. I came up with this, interestingly also from UTG. It meets with my above criterion, pretty definitely.

It mounts really solid. It stows really snug. With five different setpoints; it's versatile, and can be carried without all of that customary snaggage up front. It's quite light. The repositioning, once it's been done a few times, is really quick, really simple, and pretty logical.

When stowed, it does not interfere with the use of a rest.

It has a taller brother, which I'm eyeing for use on my PA-10, which uses taller magazines.

I'm aiming on making these my basic bipod setup on my M-LOK AR'S.

Just thought this might be a good place to tuck in a blurb...

Greg

Good to see your still around Greg. Im not big on the side mount bipods, the pivot and pan options are curtailed, and leveling is tedious. The UTG in the article above is removed for the rifle in a second or two, so stowing it is simple if you dont want blockage.

 

[TACC]

I bought one a couple of months ago and have been running it on my 6.5 CM AR. Probably 500 rounds in now, very sturdy, haven't used it out to 1000 yet.

Really like the quick detach/removal connection.

 

[Sticks]

I would also like to get a bipod that puts the bore under the apex, and come in under $300. An over bore mount is not gonna work with my rifles.

I get it. Quality costs. However some of this gear is stupid expensive, and $300+ for a bipod is outrageous IMO. $1k for a tripod, and $500 for a ball head is right up there with it.

 

[paulrem308]

Agree. I'm also in the market for a bipod. Prices just keep going up for quality gear seams like. You pay out the ass for quality or get the cheap shit. Been looking and just no middle ground.(hint for you manufacturers)
Unless I win the lottery I'm not going to drop 500 on a bipod. And yes I believe in quality (got thunder East and nightforce) think there might be some market for middle of the road products for the manufacturers.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Yep; still here. 19 years on SH; 20+ if The Lowlight Directive counts too.

I really do like the bipod in the OP, the cost just beyond my ability to get into agreement with my Wife. We reach 50 married years this July; she's my partner and my ally in all things.

Meanwhile, I make do...

You're dead right about the pivot and pan curtailment; there ain't no pivot/pan at all. For bench shooting, it works. Going on 74, field shooting becomes a fading memory. I really haven't been equal to that since around 2006, after my Wife and I got handicapped and we both threw in some towels.

Like I said; I make do...

Greg

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Picture of the mount and cant tensioner. They installed pins to keep it from unscrewing and falling out. Also 3 decent recoil lugs with two mounting screws.

Quick release lever for the mini spigot mount. You have to have the cant tension mostly loosened up to release. There is also a pin (red locktite set screw) that limits the panning into a machined "V" in the mount and a friction gasket (not pictured) to keep it slow and smooth.

The pan mechanism disassembled. 2 rubber gaskets provide the smooth L/R panning and also the source of the flex when loading.

I was initially hoping that I could simple flip the spigot mount over, but the machining in the bracket and the pin prevents that, and I could not get the setscrew broken free.

Simply flipping the spigot mount over works to a point, but a lot more flex.

This flat head screw is what attaches the spigot mount (oval shaped) into the eye .

Pin removed

Eye removed ((pry/tapping - very snug fit). Now simply flip the eye over and installation is reverse of removal. Sucks getting that hole perfectly centered to get the threads started on the pin.

Can you re upload these photos I would love to see them!

 

[coldboremiracle]

Can you re upload these photos I would love to see them!

Leapers UTG OTB Bipod

hands on testing of the Leapers UTG over bore bipod

coldboremiracle.com

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Leapers UTG OTB Bipod

hands on testing of the Leapers UTG over bore bipod

coldboremiracle.com

Im referring to the modification @Sticks made

 

[Sticks]

Somethnig to do with Google Photos, I saw all of them in my SH email about this thread. I use firefox as my browser. Don't know if it's a photo hosting issue or browser issue.

 

[TheLurkingKnowItAll]

Anyone have any idea why this bipod was discontinued?

 

[Southern Custom]

In the case if Leapers/UTG I believe their sales figures would have to be extremely high to justify keeping an item in the product line. Unlike a smaller company, a niche product like that bipod is likely not worth the effort.
When the majority of your target market is airgun, air soft and budget minded shooters, I would imagine marketing a higher end product like that is not high on the priority list. That’s just my best guess. I will say that in the cheap bipod market, they do have a few that are well made and do the job.

 

[Rant Durden]

Bummer, once again I’m a day late and a bipod short.

 

[stilesg57]

I will say that in the cheap bipod market, they do have a few that are well made and do the job.

I’ve had a couple Leapers/UTG bipod models that I liked better than a Harris...and they were less than half the cost...

 

[Southern Custom]

I picked up a UTG Recon 360 on a whim for a spare AR. A $60 bipod with pan and tilt. It's well built. Locks up like a drum and has so far been a testament to what's possible in a budget. That being said it hasn't seen hard use in competition and that is where the rubber meets the road. But, it functions so well so far that I'm willing to try it when it counts just for fun. It may be a catastrophic failure but if not ill give credit where due.

 

[maddazzshooter]

After reading lots of “Opinions “ people who haven’t touched these products , I can say that you are missing it like people that missed buying Amazon,Google or Microsoft stocks. By the way there are a load of insurgents that have met Ala while taking a dirt nap via the abilities of a Harris bipod! I’ve done work with a Harris and the OverBore and TBNR bipod are better....IMO...... just sayin

 

[Anonymoose]

I picked up a UTG Recon 360 on a whim for a spare AR. A $60 bipod with pan and tilt. It's well built. Locks up like a drum and has so far been a testament to what's possible in a budget. That being said it hasn't seen hard use in competition and that is where the rubber meets the road. But, it functions so well so far that I'm willing to try it when it counts just for fun. It may be a catastrophic failure but if not ill give credit where due.

I have this and loved it at first. The resistance adjustment/lock has kept loosening over time rendering it useless. It is not user serviceable. I have the Big Bore on order and I like the separate pan and cant locks. Hopefully it won't suffer the same fate. I'll use the Big Bore for heavy duty stuff and the Magpul for when I need mobility and weight savings.

 

[st1650]

Brevity is the soul of wit

 

[MarinePMI]

You are either low IQ or just poorly educated.

People like to dog on Business Major and Economic Majors just as much as they dog on Diversity and Inclusion majors. That said even a MBA would understand that price point has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with quality of materials, fit, finish or total quality. If simplistic low IQ logic like yours ruled the world a $180K Mercedes would be more reliable, durable and low maintenance than a $25K Toyota Corolla or Camry but it is not. A million dollar Ferrari should be able to easily stand up to 5 years of daily driving year round including hard rust belt winters with little in repairs. Clearly a new top of the line BMW SUV should easily be able to out perform a lowly TOyota 4Runner as a daily driver and occasional off road recreational vehicle! A Rolle Royce COntinental GT should easily be able to go 120K miles with almost no need for repair outside of routine maintenance!

A Weatherby Mark V should be 3X-5X more accurate than a Howa 1500, Ruger American, Tikka T3 Lite.

How much better is an Origin Action going to perform compared to a $200 Savage with $175 of machine work? Will it be 3X or 4X better than my $375 with Machining Savage? Is a $3000 Scope going to Shrink my groups by 3X compared to a $1000 Japanese made scope?

Clearly you are a well trained super consumer that has ZERO understanding of Marketing! Do not confuse Marketing with Advertising totally different focus with Marketing being far more inclusive of the entire process from start to finish. Pricing is part of marketing and it has ZERO and I do mean ZERO to do with production cost of an item.

I bet you have no idea what the fastest and cheapest method of making a barrel it? Button rifling is faster and cheaper than any other method of rifling. Initial investment is lower, tooling cost are lower, it produces a rifled barrel faster than any other method. I am sure you thought CHF was cheaper but it is not. Invest in the machinery and tooling is far higher. It CHF is slower than button rifling.

You have sadly been brainwashed by marketing and advertising to the point that you are so out of touch with what goes into manufacturing to retail that you have absolutely no clue.

I have been reviewing a lot of F Class bipods and if you think any of the $400+ bipods are worth that you are not as smart as you think you are maybe take a look at Dunning Kruger Effect!!!!

No one takes a loss on a part so how is it that I get $400+ dollar barrels for $69 to $209? I am not buying from individuals. Did the quality of the barrel drop the second the price was discounted or is your logic just not sound?

If I purchase a part for $195 made in the USA on machinery is antiquated that needs a lot of work to finish it and it is sub standard but I purchase a part that is superior in materials, surface finish, clearances and tolerances out of Taiwan for $2.48 who is the bigger fool?

Why do you think GM and Ford are making more vehicles in China than the USA? Why do you think they are importing vehicles from China including the newest Lincoln SUV? You think it is just because of labor cost? Get real! New Plants, new infrastructure, new machinery, low tax rates, low energy cost. You think Tesla electric motors and batteries made in China are grossly inferior to what can be made in the USA? You think Aviation companies have not been making high end parts in Taiwan for many decades now?

Name a single mass production rifle company in America that is making a rifle action at any price point that has forged action and bolt like a $400 to $500 Howa. I will wait! Talk to me about how Leupold and Burris are making all of their optics int he USA still oh that's right they don't! What about Redfield and Weaver oh that's right the don't.

Last I checked there are only 3 companies in Japan that make rifle scopes so if you have a scope that says made in Japan only 1 of 3 companies could have made.

Japanese made optics glass is the best int he world but it comes in grades and you can purchase glass your self in batches sometimes as little as a single tray but normally you have to buy more than that. Glass is made in bulk then graded. Just like diamonds are sold based on asperties/artifacts flaws you get bubbles in optics glass and the more bubbles it has the lower it's grade.

The best silica for making optics comes out of Vietnam just like construction grade sand is in short supply so is optics quality silica! Not all sand is created equally just ask Saudi Arabia how they know this!

Just like when a scope says made in the Philippines how many scope plants exactly do you think are on that Island? Do you think any factory does not have levels of designs and glass quality? Do you think all plants today have a single level of design and quality? All scopes out of Japan are world class and all scopes out of China are shit? What type of simpleton thinking is that? China has a space program, satellites and are ahead of us in Hypersonic Missles. All of our cameries, laptops, pc, semiconductors are made in China or Taiwan!

Companies even Chinese and Russian will build what ever you are willing to pay for. You would have to be living under a 1950's rock to think that the USA is the place where the highest technology and machinery standards live! That has not been universally true since the 1980's and by the 1990's Bills Clinton had given so much technology to the Chinese that by the early 2000's that idea was universally untrue.

You wanna stay on topic? You're constant epistles on off-topic stuff is beginning to annoy...

 

[powdahound76]

Plus we know he is a twit, as he attacked the Origin action……

And yes, owning both, I can tell you it is better in every way but cost.

I would buy another Origin.

Not another Savage.

And I am so cheap, I make @Bender and his crew look like drunken sailors after 9 months at sea.

 

[drglock]

You wanna stay on topic? You're constant epistles on off-topic stuff is beginning to annoy...

He’s a professional troll.

 

[168BTHPM]

You are either low IQ or just poorly educated.

People like to dog on Business Major and Economic Majors just as much as they dog on Diversity and Inclusion majors. That said even a MBA would understand that price point has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with quality of materials, fit, finish or total quality. If simplistic low IQ logic like yours ruled the world a $180K Mercedes would be more reliable, durable and low maintenance than a $25K Toyota Corolla or Camry but it is not. A million dollar Ferrari should be able to easily stand up to 5 years of daily driving year round including hard rust belt winters with little in repairs. Clearly a new top of the line BMW SUV should easily be able to out perform a lowly TOyota 4Runner as a daily driver and occasional off road recreational vehicle! A Rolle Royce COntinental GT should easily be able to go 120K miles with almost no need for repair outside of routine maintenance!

A Weatherby Mark V should be 3X-5X more accurate than a Howa 1500, Ruger American, Tikka T3 Lite.

How much better is an Origin Action going to perform compared to a $200 Savage with $175 of machine work? Will it be 3X or 4X better than my $375 with Machining Savage? Is a $3000 Scope going to Shrink my groups by 3X compared to a $1000 Japanese made scope?

Clearly you are a well trained super consumer that has ZERO understanding of Marketing! Do not confuse Marketing with Advertising totally different focus with Marketing being far more inclusive of the entire process from start to finish. Pricing is part of marketing and it has ZERO and I do mean ZERO to do with production cost of an item.

I bet you have no idea what the fastest and cheapest method of making a barrel it? Button rifling is faster and cheaper than any other method of rifling. Initial investment is lower, tooling cost are lower, it produces a rifled barrel faster than any other method. I am sure you thought CHF was cheaper but it is not. Invest in the machinery and tooling is far higher. It CHF is slower than button rifling.

You have sadly been brainwashed by marketing and advertising to the point that you are so out of touch with what goes into manufacturing to retail that you have absolutely no clue.

I have been reviewing a lot of F Class bipods and if you think any of the $400+ bipods are worth that you are not as smart as you think you are maybe take a look at Dunning Kruger Effect!!!!

No one takes a loss on a part so how is it that I get $400+ dollar barrels for $69 to $209? I am not buying from individuals. Did the quality of the barrel drop the second the price was discounted or is your logic just not sound?

If I purchase a part for $195 made in the USA on machinery is antiquated that needs a lot of work to finish it and it is sub standard but I purchase a part that is superior in materials, surface finish, clearances and tolerances out of Taiwan for $2.48 who is the bigger fool?

Why do you think GM and Ford are making more vehicles in China than the USA? Why do you think they are importing vehicles from China including the newest Lincoln SUV? You think it is just because of labor cost? Get real! New Plants, new infrastructure, new machinery, low tax rates, low energy cost. You think Tesla electric motors and batteries made in China are grossly inferior to what can be made in the USA? You think Aviation companies have not been making high end parts in Taiwan for many decades now?

Name a single mass production rifle company in America that is making a rifle action at any price point that has forged action and bolt like a $400 to $500 Howa. I will wait! Talk to me about how Leupold and Burris are making all of their optics int he USA still oh that's right they don't! What about Redfield and Weaver oh that's right the don't.

Last I checked there are only 3 companies in Japan that make rifle scopes so if you have a scope that says made in Japan only 1 of 3 companies could have made.

Japanese made optics glass is the best int he world but it comes in grades and you can purchase glass your self in batches sometimes as little as a single tray but normally you have to buy more than that. Glass is made in bulk then graded. Just like diamonds are sold based on asperties/artifacts flaws you get bubbles in optics glass and the more bubbles it has the lower it's grade.

The best silica for making optics comes out of Vietnam just like construction grade sand is in short supply so is optics quality silica! Not all sand is created equally just ask Saudi Arabia how they know this!

Just like when a scope says made in the Philippines how many scope plants exactly do you think are on that Island? Do you think any factory does not have levels of designs and glass quality? Do you think all plants today have a single level of design and quality? All scopes out of Japan are world class and all scopes out of China are shit? What type of simpleton thinking is that? China has a space program, satellites and are ahead of us in Hypersonic Missles. All of our cameries, laptops, pc, semiconductors are made in China or Taiwan!

Companies even Chinese and Russian will build what ever you are willing to pay for. You would have to be living under a 1950's rock to think that the USA is the place where the highest technology and machinery standards live! That has not been universally true since the 1980's and by the 1990's Bills Clinton had given so much technology to the Chinese that by the early 2000's that idea was universally untrue.

For those of you that don't want to read all of this, here is the Reader's Digest condensed version.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH Leupold BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH Savage BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH China no good BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH $$$$$ BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

[powdahound76]

You fergot the “Im an idiot” in there…..

 

[168BTHPM]

You fergot the “Im an idiot” in there…..

That's in the third BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

[drglock]

That's in the third BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Oh ye of low IQ how dare you belittle the great OZ

 

[168BTHPM]

Oh ye of low IQ how dare you belittle the great OZ

Just letting some light in.

 

[Average guy]

You are either low IQ or just poorly educated.

People like to dog on Business Major and Economic Majors just as much as they dog on Diversity and Inclusion majors. That said even a MBA would understand that price point has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with quality of materials, fit, finish or total quality. If simplistic low IQ logic like yours ruled the world a $180K Mercedes would be more reliable, durable and low maintenance than a $25K Toyota Corolla or Camry but it is not. A million dollar Ferrari should be able to easily stand up to 5 years of daily driving year round including hard rust belt winters with little in repairs. Clearly a new top of the line BMW SUV should easily be able to out perform a lowly TOyota 4Runner as a daily driver and occasional off road recreational vehicle! A Rolle Royce COntinental GT should easily be able to go 120K miles with almost no need for repair outside of routine maintenance!

A Weatherby Mark V should be 3X-5X more accurate than a Howa 1500, Ruger American, Tikka T3 Lite.

How much better is an Origin Action going to perform compared to a $200 Savage with $175 of machine work? Will it be 3X or 4X better than my $375 with Machining Savage? Is a $3000 Scope going to Shrink my groups by 3X compared to a $1000 Japanese made scope?

Clearly you are a well trained super consumer that has ZERO understanding of Marketing! Do not confuse Marketing with Advertising totally different focus with Marketing being far more inclusive of the entire process from start to finish. Pricing is part of marketing and it has ZERO and I do mean ZERO to do with production cost of an item.

I bet you have no idea what the fastest and cheapest method of making a barrel it? Button rifling is faster and cheaper than any other method of rifling. Initial investment is lower, tooling cost are lower, it produces a rifled barrel faster than any other method. I am sure you thought CHF was cheaper but it is not. Invest in the machinery and tooling is far higher. It CHF is slower than button rifling.

You have sadly been brainwashed by marketing and advertising to the point that you are so out of touch with what goes into manufacturing to retail that you have absolutely no clue.

I have been reviewing a lot of F Class bipods and if you think any of the $400+ bipods are worth that you are not as smart as you think you are maybe take a look at Dunning Kruger Effect!!!!

No one takes a loss on a part so how is it that I get $400+ dollar barrels for $69 to $209? I am not buying from individuals. Did the quality of the barrel drop the second the price was discounted or is your logic just not sound?

If I purchase a part for $195 made in the USA on machinery is antiquated that needs a lot of work to finish it and it is sub standard but I purchase a part that is superior in materials, surface finish, clearances and tolerances out of Taiwan for $2.48 who is the bigger fool?

Why do you think GM and Ford are making more vehicles in China than the USA? Why do you think they are importing vehicles from China including the newest Lincoln SUV? You think it is just because of labor cost? Get real! New Plants, new infrastructure, new machinery, low tax rates, low energy cost. You think Tesla electric motors and batteries made in China are grossly inferior to what can be made in the USA? You think Aviation companies have not been making high end parts in Taiwan for many decades now?

Name a single mass production rifle company in America that is making a rifle action at any price point that has forged action and bolt like a $400 to $500 Howa. I will wait! Talk to me about how Leupold and Burris are making all of their optics int he USA still oh that's right they don't! What about Redfield and Weaver oh that's right the don't.

Last I checked there are only 3 companies in Japan that make rifle scopes so if you have a scope that says made in Japan only 1 of 3 companies could have made.

Japanese made optics glass is the best int he world but it comes in grades and you can purchase glass your self in batches sometimes as little as a single tray but normally you have to buy more than that. Glass is made in bulk then graded. Just like diamonds are sold based on asperties/artifacts flaws you get bubbles in optics glass and the more bubbles it has the lower it's grade.

The best silica for making optics comes out of Vietnam just like construction grade sand is in short supply so is optics quality silica! Not all sand is created equally just ask Saudi Arabia how they know this!

Just like when a scope says made in the Philippines how many scope plants exactly do you think are on that Island? Do you think any factory does not have levels of designs and glass quality? Do you think all plants today have a single level of design and quality? All scopes out of Japan are world class and all scopes out of China are shit? What type of simpleton thinking is that? China has a space program, satellites and are ahead of us in Hypersonic Missles. All of our cameries, laptops, pc, semiconductors are made in China or Taiwan!

Companies even Chinese and Russian will build what ever you are willing to pay for. You would have to be living under a 1950's rock to think that the USA is the place where the highest technology and machinery standards live! That has not been universally true since the 1980's and by the 1990's Bills Clinton had given so much technology to the Chinese that by the early 2000's that idea was universally untrue.

 

[Feesh]

Resurrected a 2 year old thread for a rant. Huge value add.

 

[Bender]

You are either low IQ or just poorly educated.

People like to dog on Business Major and Economic Majors just as much as they dog on Diversity and Inclusion majors. That said even a MBA would understand that price point has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with quality of materials, fit, finish or total quality. If simplistic low IQ logic like yours ruled the world a $180K Mercedes would be more reliable, durable and low maintenance than a $25K Toyota Corolla or Camry but it is not. A million dollar Ferrari should be able to easily stand up to 5 years of daily driving year round including hard rust belt winters with little in repairs. Clearly a new top of the line BMW SUV should easily be able to out perform a lowly TOyota 4Runner as a daily driver and occasional off road recreational vehicle! A Rolle Royce COntinental GT should easily be able to go 120K miles with almost no need for repair outside of routine maintenance!

A Weatherby Mark V should be 3X-5X more accurate than a Howa 1500, Ruger American, Tikka T3 Lite.

How much better is an Origin Action going to perform compared to a $200 Savage with $175 of machine work? Will it be 3X or 4X better than my $375 with Machining Savage? Is a $3000 Scope going to Shrink my groups by 3X compared to a $1000 Japanese made scope?

Clearly you are a well trained super consumer that has ZERO understanding of Marketing! Do not confuse Marketing with Advertising totally different focus with Marketing being far more inclusive of the entire process from start to finish. Pricing is part of marketing and it has ZERO and I do mean ZERO to do with production cost of an item.

I bet you have no idea what the fastest and cheapest method of making a barrel it? Button rifling is faster and cheaper than any other method of rifling. Initial investment is lower, tooling cost are lower, it produces a rifled barrel faster than any other method. I am sure you thought CHF was cheaper but it is not. Invest in the machinery and tooling is far higher. It CHF is slower than button rifling.

You have sadly been brainwashed by marketing and advertising to the point that you are so out of touch with what goes into manufacturing to retail that you have absolutely no clue.

I have been reviewing a lot of F Class bipods and if you think any of the $400+ bipods are worth that you are not as smart as you think you are maybe take a look at Dunning Kruger Effect!!!!

No one takes a loss on a part so how is it that I get $400+ dollar barrels for $69 to $209? I am not buying from individuals. Did the quality of the barrel drop the second the price was discounted or is your logic just not sound?

If I purchase a part for $195 made in the USA on machinery is antiquated that needs a lot of work to finish it and it is sub standard but I purchase a part that is superior in materials, surface finish, clearances and tolerances out of Taiwan for $2.48 who is the bigger fool?

Why do you think GM and Ford are making more vehicles in China than the USA? Why do you think they are importing vehicles from China including the newest Lincoln SUV? You think it is just because of labor cost? Get real! New Plants, new infrastructure, new machinery, low tax rates, low energy cost. You think Tesla electric motors and batteries made in China are grossly inferior to what can be made in the USA? You think Aviation companies have not been making high end parts in Taiwan for many decades now?

Name a single mass production rifle company in America that is making a rifle action at any price point that has forged action and bolt like a $400 to $500 Howa. I will wait! Talk to me about how Leupold and Burris are making all of their optics int he USA still oh that's right they don't! What about Redfield and Weaver oh that's right the don't.

Last I checked there are only 3 companies in Japan that make rifle scopes so if you have a scope that says made in Japan only 1 of 3 companies could have made.

Japanese made optics glass is the best int he world but it comes in grades and you can purchase glass your self in batches sometimes as little as a single tray but normally you have to buy more than that. Glass is made in bulk then graded. Just like diamonds are sold based on asperties/artifacts flaws you get bubbles in optics glass and the more bubbles it has the lower it's grade.

The best silica for making optics comes out of Vietnam just like construction grade sand is in short supply so is optics quality silica! Not all sand is created equally just ask Saudi Arabia how they know this!

Just like when a scope says made in the Philippines how many scope plants exactly do you think are on that Island? Do you think any factory does not have levels of designs and glass quality? Do you think all plants today have a single level of design and quality? All scopes out of Japan are world class and all scopes out of China are shit? What type of simpleton thinking is that? China has a space program, satellites and are ahead of us in Hypersonic Missles. All of our cameries, laptops, pc, semiconductors are made in China or Taiwan!

Companies even Chinese and Russian will build what ever you are willing to pay for. You would have to be living under a 1950's rock to think that the USA is the place where the highest technology and machinery standards live! That has not been universally true since the 1980's and by the 1990's Bills Clinton had given so much technology to the Chinese that by the early 2000's that idea was universally untrue.