Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

[CStan]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

The target above was fired with a Civil War era sharpshooters rifle, the shot outside the circle was a sighting shot at 40 rods or 220 yards proving they were very accurate weapons.

http://pages.prodigy.net/richsim/target_scopes.htm

 

[CFS]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

My great grandfather served in the Southern forces as a veternary doctor in Mississppi. (They had my grandmother when he was in his 60's) He told his children that most folks in the south used their on personal weapons, (rifles, shotguns, and handguns)and picked up addition guns from the battlefield.

Pop

 

[eleaf]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were there even such things as snipers at that time, or were there just guys who were REALLY good hunters and marksmen?

If I recall correctly from a History Channel show about the Revolutionary War, American marksmen shooting from concealed locations, picking off British officers, were considered dishonorable combatants.

I'd call them smarter than average, since your typical "honorable" battle those days was to line up and shoot at each other from 100 yards. haha </div></div>

The other way around. The British saw it as dishonorable, and even passed up a chance to kill GW because his back was turned. The "Rebels" had no issue with it and employed it regularly.

For the American Revolution, you're looking at Kentucky or Pennsylvania rifles. Don't know about the Civil War.

I do know that it wasn't until recently, perhaps as late as Vietnam, that we didn't employ "snipers" as we understand the word, and the the equipment was generally a standard issue battle rifle with glass rather than a specialized weapon specifically suited to the task.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you like reading about the sharpshooters of the Civil War, I hope you'll buy my novel when I get it finished. That is exactly what it is about... a CPL in the 2nd USSS.

The first use of the word sharpshooter is highly debated, but in terms of the training and ability to fight in "open order" using marksmanship, scouting and skirmishing skills, the 95th Foot, (aka 95th Rifles) used during the Penisula Campaign, predated Berdan's men by 60 years. And everyone has read Rifleman Dodd. </div></div>

According to etymological research, sharpshooter was first used in writing in 1802 in a Military Dictionary when describing the <span style="font-style: italic">Tirolians</span> (an Austrian troop of sharp shooters), and has been in regular use since. Being that the first documented instance of the word comes in a dictionary, it would seem to have been in use for much longer as dictionaries generally are pretty far behind the curve of word usage. They want to make sure that a word "sticks" before making it official.

 

[SteelW0LF]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, My Brother was a Fleet Marine back in the 80's and he felt then and still feels Snipers are "gutless Chicken-shits".... (Disclaimer)....He's my brother and as such I respect his opinion BUT COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE!!! </div></div>

Next time he says it, tell him:

-He has to pick one buddy to spot for him.
-Then he's got to hump it into enemy territory, just him and the spotter, without being seen.
-Then he has to stake out his target for days without being compromised.
-He then has to take one shot and kill his target without missing.
-Then he has to make it out alive while all the bad guys in the area are looking for him.
-While he mulls all this over in his head, as the reality settles in on him say: "Pussy" (then run if he's bigger than you..lol)

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

Since you still haven't filled out your profile, I can't figure out whether Gettysburg is anywhere near you.

The Gettysburg Visitor Center is an immense information resource, with a museum, theater and cyclorama presentations, and gift shop that has extensive factual reading resources.

The town itself has many commercial outlets which can answer your questions and provide both reproduction items and authentic artifacts. I mention Arsenal of the Alleghenies as but one of many such providers I have personally visited and been simply wow'ed by.

Greg

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"gutless Chicken-shits" </div></div>

HA HA! that is funniest thing I read all morning! That's great.

If your brother thinks that about snipers, I would love to hear what he thinks about Predator drone pilots!!!!

But back to the topic (and not meaning to hijack the thread!)... the UK-made Whitworth rifle used by the Confederacy is pretty amazing, even by today's standards. Not only did it have polygonal rifling, the BULLET itself was polygonal!
http://www.johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm

Anyone know about the optics they used in the Civil War?

Now that was funny
</div></div>

 

[GRIM]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CStan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The target above was fired with a Civil War era sharpshooters rifle, the shot outside the circle was a sighting shot at 40 rods or 220 yards proving they were very accurate weapons.

http://pages.prodigy.net/richsim/target_scopes.htm </div></div>

HEY! How did this sharpshooter know that SH had a 10 shot minimum rule to be posted for grouping?!?! Damn good foresight on his part! ;-)

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GRIM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CStan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The target above was fired with a Civil War era sharpshooters rifle, the shot outside the circle was a sighting shot at 40 rods or 220 yards proving they were very accurate weapons.

http://pages.prodigy.net/richsim/target_scopes.htm </div></div>

HEY! How did this sharpshooter know that SH had a 10 shot minimum rule to be posted for grouping?!?! Damn good foresight on his part! ;-) </div></div>

This sharpshooter knew because he has been reincarnated over the generations to one of today's avid "10 shot group" enthusiasts because he did that way back when LOL

So my question is, which one of you is it?

 

[eli polite]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

thi rifle is a little later but still verry impressive shooting. i had the opertunity to buy one several years ago and did not. i have kicked my self ever sense


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRaRCCZjdTM

 

[allocine]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

hello, I have a request:
few days ago, I found a web site selling civil war rifle scopes.
obviously, these were not genuine, but a modern copy.
(I mean "civil war like", very long & thin scopes)

do you know something like that?

NB: sorry for my english, I am trying to be understandable

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allocine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hello, I have a request:
few days ago, I found a web site selling civil war rifle scopes.
obviously, these were not genuine, but a modern copy.
(I mean "civil war like", very long & thin scopes)

do you know something like that?

NB: sorry for my english, I am trying to be understandable </div></div>
I've seen some of these scopes. There are some that are of decent quality but most I've seen were very crude reproductions that were stamped "India" and could never actually be used. All are made of brass and have little, if any, magnification. Pretty much just a tube with cross-hairs. Mounting one is the real challenge. IIRC they require a dove-tail up near the muzzle. They're only really made for replica rifles and the cheap ones are made for non-firing replicas. Hope that helps...

 

[oneshot onekill]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fighthard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Typical scoped Morgan James false muzzle rifle which could/would have been used by either side during the war of Northern Aggression.

I really love these things. </div></div>
20MOA cant too... Nice!

 

[frog5215]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

The term "sharpshooter" was in use during the Napoleonic wars for (among others) the Marines up in the rigging trying to shoot helmsmen and officers aboard the enemy's quarterdeck during battle.

Anyone who's read about Hathcock should remember his comments about many regular Marine officer's disdain for the sniper's cowardly way of battle: shooting people who were not an immediate direct threat.

 

[Gary/CO]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, My Brother was a Fleet Marine back in the 80's and he felt then and still feels Snipers are "gutless Chicken-shits".... (Disclaimer)....He's my brother and as such I respect his opinion BUT COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE!!! </div></div>

Your brother's perspective enjoys historical precedents. During the Civil War, one Union soldier complained about the Berdan Sharp Shooters. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yesterday four of these demons occupied the post with me, and after busying themselves with suitably and satisfactorily adjusting their rifles, sat down to await a victim. they had not long to wait however, as soon were seen four men leaving the enemies works, who proceeded towards the works on our left, apparently with no thought of danger at least so early in this day. At their distance they would have been perfectly secure from our muskets, but were in easy range of the murderous Berdan rifles. The sharp shooters consulted for a moment, and three of them, removing the rear most support from their rifles, brought them to bear upon the men, and at the word from the fourth, fired. Three of them dropped instantly, while the fourth, after standing in apparent bewilderment suddenly [fell] besides his dead comrades, adjusted their bodies as a protection, and stayed there all day long. The enemy immediately opened upon our post, which made it pretty hot, but which in no wise disconcerted the sharp shooters, who, taking advantage of their position, picked off the gunners quite lively. As for my men, they were completely demoralized and driven off by the fire, and took shelter further in the woods. Shortly after the firing ceased, four other men bearing stretchers were seen to suddenly leave the works and approach the dead men. I can scarcely bring my pencil to write it, but those inhuman fiends, these vaunted brave Berdan sharp shooters, murdered these poor fellows also....</div></div> During World War I British Army Maj. Hesketh-Pritchard was called, "The Professional Assassin" by some soldiers. In 'Nam, Carlos Hathcock and other snipers were called "Murder Incorporated."

Of course, everyone here at this forum knows that our snipers are force multipliers whose job helps save lives on our side.

 

[Gary/CO]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called up and talked to the curator of the museum this weekend. Apparently my memory has degraded from years of binge drinking.

The rifle is a Whitworth

It was a scoped version, and it made its way into the states via a blockade run at Mobile Alabama. I was told that this is the only Whitworth that was not confiscated after the war. Most of the rifles were destroyed after they were confiscated, this one was taken by the rifleman to his home in Texas, were it was used to hunt with and passed down through his family.
The scope was lent to another gentleman and never returned. Apparently the rifleman didn't mind, due to the fact of not being able to shoulder fire the rifle with it on. It had a ridiculously small eye relief and would blacken your eye when used.

The family, who owned the gun in Texas, contacted the museum to get information on the rifle, then ended up donating it to the museum.

So yeah, the only non-confiscated Whitworth rifle known to exist, sits in OKC.

Cheers </div></div>

The rifle you mentioned in the 45th Infantry Division Museum (Thunderbirds) was carried by Charles T. Ingram. Born a Virginian, his family moved to Missouri and at age sixteen, he followed his other brother to Texas. When the war started, he returned to Missouri and enlisted in the Third Missouri and fought at Carthage, Lexington, Wilson's Creek, Pea Ridge, Corinth and finally Vicksburg where they and about 30,000 other Confederates were surrendered by Pemberton to Grant. After being exchanged, his unit was consolidated into the Fifth Missouri of Cockrell's Brigade, Cleburne's Division. Ingram received the Whitworth about this time and used it during the Atlanta Campaign. He fought at Franklin where the Confederate Army of Tennessee was shattered (thanks a lot Hood for killing your own army). His unit was later sent to Mobile where it fought until it surrendered. Ingram snuck out with his Whitworth rather than surrender. He wanted to join Kirby Smith's Confederates but they surrendered before he got there. The war lost, Ingram brought his gun home and it remained in the family until it was donated to the museum (thank you Ingram family). It is one of the few (if not only) Whitworth that has genuine Confederate provenance (certified by the Whitworth Society in the UK).

 

[Gary/CO]

Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dragoon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read that the British Army had more rifles than the Continental Army.I guess its true because the Continental Regulars were armed with smooth-bores,the squirrel-rifles were in the hands of the militia and other irregulars... </div></div>

This is partially correct. After the 1st Pennsylvania Regiment, the twelve company rifle regiment was disbanded when their one year enlistment expired, Washington's Continental Army did not have any formal rifle units within its ToE. For a short period after the disbandment of the 1st Penn Regt, Washington raised a 500 man battalion (Morgan's Rifle Battalion) whose men were detached from their parent unit. After a year, they too, with the exception of two companies, were disbanded and the men returned to their parent units. Shortly after that, Washington raised yet another ad-hoc rifle battalion (Major Parr). This does not mean that there weren't rifles or that riflemen did not fight in later battles. Many did, but as militia. King's Mountain and Cowpens were militia victories (the Continentals at Cowpens were mostly discharged but remained together and fought as a unit there). Militia riflemen also fought throughout South Carolina where they won some near bloodless victories. In the NW frontier, George Rogers Clark's force of riflemen had a near bloodless victory when he captured Fort Sackville from Hairbuyer Hamilton.

 

[goatboy]

So, I'm thumbing through the most recent issue of The Field, a British shooting sports glossy, which has an article titled "Dawn of the Sniper" which investigates the history of the subject. On a military level, the article correctly credits the US with setting up the first sniper forces when the Continental Congress established 10 sharpshooter regiments in 1775.

I got about half way through the article before I dropped the magazine for this iPad to do some research on Virginia Sharpshooter Regiments. After reading about Daniel Morgan, I turned to the question of revolutionary hardware and this 8 year old thread popped up.

For anybody with an interest, scroll back for a good read. There is a great comment following a discussion of some custom reproduction guns where a member replies along the lines of "great, now I want a $7k flintlock..."

Nothing changes.

And thanks to former members for sharing knowledge on this and other subjects,
GB

 

[craigos]

i have been bitten by the flintlock bug ... people at the range are confused, 300 Blk SBR, then my mausingfield in MDT acc, 1877 sharps and then my flintlock. Love them all for what they are (and i dont need a FFL for a flinty).

 

[Niles Coyote]

Interesting videos on the whitworth