Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Irwin J. Finster

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Hi,

I ordered a costume rifle from Roedale 2 1/2 years back, and payed in advance. The rifle should have been completed in 4-6 months. I still haven't seen it and am unable to reach Roedale for months. My emails are ignored, I can't get anyone on the phone and the registrated letter I sent them has been without reply!

Does anyone know if this company still exists or if it has gone bankrupt or if I have been swindled altogether?

Thanks for any info!
 

Mr Flannel

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Pete Lincoln posts on this site and will probably respond to you here.

The Roedale website is still active and there seems to have been recent traffic here re Pete's rifles and associated kit.

You'd probably want to fill out your profile a bit, as well.
 

SANDRAT

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

I just got a brake in from them yesterday.Nice one at that.Took less than two weeks after ordering.Based on my experience with them,they are GTG.
 

SurgeonPredator

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Roedale still exists.

Pete is quite busy and has trouble getting the stuff from his suppliers in time, that is the reason for most delays.

Take my rifle build time as an extreme example: I ordered my rifle in 2006, 2 years later he got the Surgeon action and it took nearly another year to finish the rifle. There were so many unforseen incidents that it took almost 3 years for my custom build to be ready for action.

I did not regret the wait, it's an awesome rifle and a tack driver. Sure, I was pissed sometimes and the communication was sub-par, but I met Pete twice and he is a great guy to deal with, an outstanding gunsmith and is really serious about his business.

I know the way you feel right now, but I couldn't blame Pete for most of what occured. The lack of communication was the reason for me getting pissed. But imagine every customer tries to call twice a week to check the status of his rifle.

Try to call Mon-Thur 09.00 - 13.00 & Tue 14.00 - 18.00 (GMT+1), or send him a PM on Sniper's Hide (Pete Lincoln)

Good luck, mate
 

aqualung

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Pete has been massively busy introducing new kit lately. I'm not making excuses for him, that's just fact. He displayed at IWA in Nuremberg this year, so yes, he is very much still in business.

Try Here;

http://roedaleprecision.com/epages/index.htm

Or search for Pete's profile and PM him.

I would say that I like Pete, and he has always seemed like a stand up guy to me, so if <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> are genuine, then I'm sure Pete will make it right.

Pete has VERY MANY friends here........ Bear that in mind.

Having said all that, Welcome. Now go fill out your profile.

Neil
 

aqualung

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

Registered in Feb 2008, and this is your first post?

Profile not filled properly filled out?

As I said above<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 14pt"> "IF YOU ARE GENUINE"</span></span>. That's for you to prove. Pete has already proven himself here.

Just checkin' under the bridge!

Neil
 

excess

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

I too ordered a brake and received it this week, so somebody there is doing something. As the other poster said, two weeks and that's delivered from Germany, not too bad.

I'll be in Germany in May for my honeymoon if you want me to rough him up
smile.gif
 

Irwin J. Finster

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Thanks to all for your replys. I registrated in 2008 when I was resarching roedale and found some posts here, and just reused my subscription. If you want proof I can scan in and post my order confirmation from roedale.

And as someon above sayed, the wait would not be the problem, the lack of communication is. The price I payed in ADVANCE for this rifle is no little thing for me, I also mailed him a great swarovski scope about a halve year back to mount on my rifle when I last heard from him, so I am really worried now. All wouldn't be a problem, when, say after such a long delay a status update would come per mail all two or three months....
 

excess

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunGuru727</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 years for a build, forget it. </div></div>

Well if it makes him feel any better GAP is quoting 6 weeks for customer supplied builds
smile.gif
 

Yakko Warner

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

From his webshop page it sounds like his staff are taking their summer vacations.

"Due to the staff vacation period from 21.07.2010 until 03.08.2010 our telephone support is reduced to a minimum.
If you don't manage to reach us by telephone please contact us via email.
Orders during this peroid will be processed normaly.
Thankyou for your understanding. Team Roedale"
 

ejg

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Which part of this world do you live in?
Getting parts from the States to Europe can be a troublesome. We are almost used to it.
I speak to Pete Lincoln on a weekly basis, don't worry they are alive and kicking. Last two years have been very busy with plenty new products. Pete might not be the best business man but I've never heard that he ripped anyone off, not really his nature.
edi
 

Irwin J. Finster

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunGuru727</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 years for a build, forget it. </div></div>

If I had known beforehand I'd never ordered it. I got quoted 4-6 months max build time, but I realized than that maybe it could get longer, but I surely did not reckon that it would take that long...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well if it makes him feel any better GAP is quoting 6 weeks for customer supplied builds </div></div>

No, not really
frown.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yacko</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From his webshop page it sounds like his staff are taking their summer vacations.

"Due to the staff vacation period from 21.07.2010 until 03.08.2010 our telephone support is reduced to a minimum.
If you don't manage to reach us by telephone please contact us via email.</div></div>

I tried to call many times before their vacation, And only got a recorded message that they can't come to the phone at this time. The message that is on the answering machine at the moment stats that they are on vacation till 17.07. and that was a few days ago.... I of course also tried to mail them.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Edi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which part of this world do you live in?</div></div>

In Austria, right next to Germany but still rather too far to just drive up there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: __JR__</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pete's no swindler, a wheeler dealer but no swindler.</div></div>

I really hope so, and that this will all turn out fine in the end. But I saw a Roedale made rifle once at a shooting tournament, and if I had gotten mine in a reasonable time frame, I most probably would have ordered another by now. But in this case I will think long and hard befor doing so again..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edi</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I speak to Pete Lincoln on a weekly basis</div></div>

If you or anyone else who is in contact with mister Lincoln, would be willing to plead my case to him, I will gladely send them my name and adress via PM..

Thanks to all...
 

Irwin J. Finster

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Irwin,
send me a pm, I'll try find out what the story is.
What kind of build did you order?

edi </div></div>

Thank you very much! I ordred a AW Shaft with this Rodale Avenger System. I'll send you a PM with my information.
 

ChrisF

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?


You guys in the US , have NO idea as to the delays & redtape & BS & extra cost you have to go thru to export rifle gear outside the US ( thanks to WOT , I feel so much safer now ).

I can well believe , it took 2yrs to get actions sent from the US , and realise this , what I am talking about is to a licenced firearms dealer .

I still have actions sitting in the US , they have been sitting their now for almost 18 mths .

This is what is driving countries out side the US to stop buying US made actions & barrels , and start making thier OWN .

Later Chris
 

ejg

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Spoke to Pete this afternoon (our time) he is travelling and
will be back Sunday night.
I think the muddle had something to do with the a batch of Avenger2 actions which Pete rejected and builds are delayed.

edi
 

Engin

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

I'm sorry to say that i have tried to do business with Roedale several times over the last couple of years and have found communication to be poor at best with e-mails not replied to and phone calls not answered.

I've tried to talk to them about a stock for my Howa and got nothing back in reply.

I'm in the same time zone as Roedale and so time lag cannot be blamed.

I am in touch with the shooting scene in the UK. I know that getting hold of actions from Stateside may be difficult, but I know, from talking to Registered Firearms Dealers in the UK that it doesnt take two years. Two months at best.

Whereas I might be new on SH, I do have a good number of threads on airgunbbs and have also asked questions on there regarding Roedale. The answers that were forthcoming were interesting but I still went against the advice received and approached the company for a third time. Again, my e-mails were not replied to.

Mate, I wish you luck.

Oh, and for those that got your muzzle brakes, congrats, but I feel it necessary to point out that the OP has probably paid out $1-2k for his rifle and waiting 2 years plus for it, when the money is in Roedales hands is, to me at least, wholely unacceptable.
 

ChrisF

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

From the UK , I have waited about 18 mths for a AI AW , because the order was stuffed up on the 1st AW they had for me , which I did not accept as it was not speced to what I had ordered .

I am at present waiting on actions that where promised to be available 2yrs ago , the 18 mths wait is just from the time they actually where made & not the time ordered & paid for , Opps .
The actions I am still waiting on , are US made actions , and they hace been manufactered , BUT are still just sitting in the US , again due to the US redtape & BS .

I am not defending any one , BUT I do know from bitter experience , and I had all the right paper work , it seems the problem is at the US end , and in the last couple of yrs their has been big changes to the export laws & the costs , and a downsizing as to the actuall number of FFL Exporters still in business .

Later Chris

 

border_reiver

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Engin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry to say that i have tried to do business with Roedale several times over the last couple of years and have found communication to be poor at best with e-mails not replied to and phone calls not answered.

I've tried to talk to them about a stock for my Howa and got nothing back in reply.

I'm in the same time zone as Roedale and so time lag cannot be blamed.

I am in touch with the shooting scene in the UK. I know that getting hold of actions from Stateside may be difficult, but I know, from talking to Registered Firearms Dealers in the UK that it doesnt take two years. Two months at best.

Whereas I might be new on SH, I do have a good number of threads on airgunbbs and have also asked questions on there regarding Roedale. The answers that were forthcoming were interesting but I still went against the advice received and approached the company for a third time. Again, my e-mails were not replied to.

Mate, I wish you luck.

Oh, and for those that got your muzzle brakes, congrats, but I feel it necessary to point out that the OP has probably paid out $1-2k for his rifle and waiting 2 years plus for it, when the money is in Roedales hands is, to me at least, wholely unacceptable.

</div></div>

I worked the gun trade in the UK, and what was the most frustrating with the US vendors was they couldn't or wouldn't do the paperwork..It was often frustrating until they heard another american voice on the other end of the phone explaining what they needed to do. Even selling to the states, most of the time all that had to be done was the simple End User undertaking form, that drove the yanks insane until it was explained to them.

But the custom business is what it is, a hard game to price and an expensive game for the producer. A customer wants it built his way, and it can take some time to get the stars to align when you're working with either new vendors or many vendors. When you have all the gear in stock, or have the ability to produce all the working components delivery time gets much better, but at the end of the day it's building what the customer wants to the letter in the custom game. I've seen it take 2 years on rifle builds, and I haven't just started in this business. There is usually a reason.

JR
 

Irwin J. Finster

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Engin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I feel it necessary to point out that the OP has probably paid out $1-2k for his rifle and waiting 2 years plus for it, when the money is in Roedales hands is, to me at least, wholely unacceptable.
</div></div>

More like 3,5 k, but I don't want this thread going into a bash Roedale party. Edi of the forum here was kind enough to contact Pete for me, and he agreed that he would answer to my mail when he is back on Sunday. Will keep you posted on that. Although the wait is bad for as I stated I am not filthy rich, and really had to save up to purchase my dream rifle, my main problem is the lack of communication. I think I have really not been over the top with my mails and questioning, but when promised delivery time after delivery time goes by without a word one starts to think. I understand that every costumer wants to be kept up to date on the status on his rifle, and that answering all mails and calls is probably not easy, but if a promised delivery date can't be kept, or the delays are so ueber long as in my case, I don't think it would be to much to ask to at least give the costumer a call or a mail explaining the trouble. And, I am not really set in stone about my rifle, if one part is such big a problem, one oud think an alternative could be found.

Well, will see how this turns out...
 

S12A

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

I recieved a Roaedale RCS stock last year,

a bit of a wait but nothing i didnt expect, however the end result was a brilliant stock, the craftsman ship that comes out of roedale precision is top notch.

if you can wait i'm sure you wont be dissapointed.

hope it all works out .

cheers, Anthony
 

flims

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

how long is 'abit of a wait'? i'm after the telescopic version. I was told they should be ready for delivery in 6 wks. Assuming that everything goes well and that they are ready in 6wks time, it should only take 1 week max to get from germany to anywhere in Europe sans problèmes. I really hope they will be ready soon so i can finalise my rifle build.
 

S12A

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

2 months i think it was. they had probs getting skins from AI,

i think when the telescopic stcok comes out the shoulkdnt have any problems like that!

i have ordered other things and got them whithin 2 weeks as well.
 

Pete Lincoln

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

What the hell is the problem here ?
Now its time for me to have a well over due rant.

My staff take a couple of well deserved weeks off. I turn the phone off so I can work through without disturbance and catch up on builds and new products and all of a sudden Ive apparently been abducted by aliens, gone bankrupt or done a lord lucan. Despite the fact that the answering machine says we are on summer break and there is a message in the web.

Without knowing the identity of the guy who want's the rifle in question it difficult to say exactly what the problem is. But Ive only a couple of outstanding rifles for Austria,

I expect its the Avenger 1 in .270winchester that has been sat here assembled and proved and ready for a stock for about 16 months now.gathering dust. The Problem bieng it hasn't a got stock because the stock hasn't been delivered yet.
Customers where informed of the delay with the stocks,( there always seems to be a delay with stocks, irrelevant of what type) and after a wait and see if something anything turns up and after a discussion of what to do about it with the .270 customer an upgrade to Avenger II action was agreed upon, with no added cost for the upgrade.
One has to then reset the clock on what is essencialy an entirely new build as everything starts again from day 1.
As Edi mentioned the company who where supposed to make the Avenger II actions delivered nothing but what amounted to an expensive pile of junk that needed more work than any factory rifle ive ever worked on to be anything like usable. All customers waiting on Avenger II's where contacted and give the option of money back, a reworked Avenger II from this batch or a wait until the next batch of Avenger II's, (machined by a different and much more capable company) All but 5 of the batch where returned to the idiot who machined them.
Last agreement or update was that I would inform as soon as I could give a date when the new actions would be ready to go and a definate date could be set for shipping the rifle.

Simple fact is that we aren't so far with the actions as to be able to say when I will have a 30-06 length action for the .270win.It may be 4 weeks or it may be 12. Hence ive made no further update.

The stock for the original spec build still isn't here !

I'm absolutely sick to death of carrying the can for every other jo in the supply chain, every time one single goddamn part of a custom rifle fails to show on time, doesn't arrive at all,gets impounded by customs, lost by the postal service or arrives not as ordered or arrives damaged, I spend my time chasing and chasing it up, I spend hours on the phone with the end customer and usualy end up with a pile of unwanted parts because the customer wants to change build spec to make the whole thing go quicker. None of this time i get paid for and parts left over are always sold below retail value because they are usualy so individual.

I get the agro, I get my name slammed all over the damn internet. And there are certain individuals out there, who have never done any trading with us but seem to take pleasure from pouring oil on the fire of moaning as every customer lost because of shit like this is a an apparent customer gained on the part of thier mate, my opposition or competition.

Ive even had people call or email demanding items for free or else an internet smear campaign will ensue ! more than once !!the gaul of it !

Yet i'm the guy at the end of the chain just in front of the customer who busts his balls and bends over backwards to try and keep everyone happy.
Currently 2 full days of my 7 day , 15hour per day working week are fully spent with chasing suppliers, usualy in a different country and explaining to customers, time and time again, that "no, I am very sorry, but despite the assurances of supplier X, nothing has arrived just yet" " No I am sorry, we shipped it on date X, but DHL put it on a ship instead of air freight hence the 3 month delay"
Thats 2 full days wasted every single goddamn week.
Supply in the firearms industry is renowned as been slow. but some of the things that occur are beyond belief. Getting parts from overseas is bound by difficult and restrictive legislation, people who don't want to, or can't be bothered to do paperwork and that fact that we are just too far away to matter. Incompetent shipping companies who loose packages and officials at the customs office who take 4 hours to do the paperwork for every imported package whilst youi are sat there waiting.


Fact of the matter is that any riflesmith, me or anyone else is only as good as his suppliers. Unfortunately some of mine don't, or didn't seem to be up to it.

This is the reason that the whole emphasis of the rifle building side of Roedale Precision is currently bieng changed. No longer are we offering to build custom one of a kind rifles on the customers choice of parts from anywhere in the world. Manufacturers of components are simply not interested in small infrequent orders, it is not worth doing the mountain of export papers for 5 parts per year, hence parts take forever and a day to get. It is not economicaly viable, it is not good business and most of all, it just isn't fun.

What we are doing is building a series of custom rifles, just like many other do, limited choice, based on own or local manufactured parts as far as is humanly possible with certain parts sourced from only the most reliable suppliers further afield, and with the choice on options drasticaly reduced to enable the stocking of items on shelf the build time is drasticaly reduced.
This is the reason I have gone to the great personal lengths and expense of developing such a range of own products. I would suggest that we have marketed more own design products over the last 12 months and many many much much larger companies, Which is slowly starting to pay its dividends.

This year has been a bitch so far, with my Fathers stroke in December of last year and death in February and my Mother needing care, all in a country where I am not based meant I lost 3 months of work time. Ive been trying my damndest to catch up ever since. Suppliers not pulling thier weight and the constant pressure and extra work of everything associated with the supply chain are literaly making my life a misery.
I personaly build every single rifle, as well as doing the design, testing, developement etc of all of our own kit.

But we plod on and do the best we can and judging by the increase in the amount of sales through our webshop, which has doubled since the end of 2010, and the interest in the new series custom rifles, we are on the right track.

Yes, we make the odd cock up, and sometimes we are difficult to get on the phone, thats because we are so busy dealing with so many requests and we are only human, I tend to like bieng attached to my fingers and thumbs and will not use the phone when machining.
Geoff answers the phone from 08.00 till 13.30, when the phone is engaged, it still gives a ring tone so whoever is 2nd in line thinks there is no one there.
Ive said to Geoff we should call our selves Gunpedia, because every man and his uncle calls us for advice about guns and shooting.
"whats the best bullet for a large boar at 300m"
"My Sako shoots the first shot always 4cm high, what causes it"
"where can I buy new screws for my 98 Mauser"
" does a barrel on a Blaser R93 need running in"

Even questions related with our business.
" do you sell muzzle brakes" ( no thats why we have so many pictures in the webshop"
mad.gif

"Whats the price of shipping to...."
"Do you export to..."
please read the information that is in the webshop, it is there to prevent us having to waste time answering daft questions, which means customers with genuine matters fail to get through to us.

Honestly I keep expecing some one to call and ask if we can tell them if it will be raining the weekend after next, with enough sun between the showers to make the Roe deer move.

Then there are the customers who just nip in because they are in the area and hang around for 4 hours, there is a reason that visiting is by appointment only,. when I am in the middle of chambering a batch of barrels, I just do not want to be distrubed. but i'm to nice to throw anyone out so once they are here, work is disrupted.

If you can't get us on the phone, and it can be difficult I admit. Email to the support address generaly gets answered fastest and we also have a fax.Registered letters are fine, but if one arrives whilst we are away, chances are its been returned to sender before we get a chance to pick it up at the post office, which is by the way another wasted 1 hour round trip.
So apart from the time I was in GB because of the family issues, during the week before, during and after the IWA ( which takes you from December 14th to the end of march) and perhaps for 6 days in July where i was in GB again, If you haven't got ahold of me or one of my staff, then you haven't tried hard enough or haven't enough patience. If you've written an email with a daft question, chances are it was deleted. If the email was valid, chances are I just haven't had time to reply, or am checking on the status before I answer.

OK rant over. sorry about that. but its how it is.

I get upwards of 150 serious business emails per day, plus the spam. That alone is a full time Job, half of which are probably "has my stock arrived yet, when will the 3-20x50PMII be on the market because i'd like to change my order, have the AI side pannels arrived yet, "
the rest general enquiries and requests for quotes for one of a kind custom rifles. The phone rings from 07.30 until 23.00 all day every day, its a little quieter on sundays, but it still rings.

We are a small team of 2 guys who generaly have contact with customers, thats Geoff and me. Plus my missus helps out. Then we have Tom who does the CAD, PC work and graphics with the webshop etc. and we have some one for a bit of book keeping.
We are obviously victims of our own popularity because managing with the amount of requests, emails and calls is beyond our capabilities. It wouldn't be if every thing came on time, as ordered and in good condition, or if the postal services of the world where more reliable.
I am however sure that anyone who has ordered anything through the webshop has recieved thier items in a timely manner, and if not there was a very good reason why not and we did our best to deliver quickly.

So what are we doing about it.

Well for a start, changing from one of a kind rifles to series customs will cut my workload as far as talking to customers, giving advice and chasing suppliers by more than half. This will in trun up the rifle production, and building 10 like rifles is as quick as 3 that are all completely different. So production will increase.
We are looking for additional staff, which isn't easy to find. for a start trustworthy is top of the list, a clean record, thats a must. Then a bit of an idea about firearms is also a good thing. flexible, a team player, the right personality. and then affordable.
A woman is out of the question because we cannot afford to take some one on and then have them go off for 2 years maternity leave, with us having to hold the job open in the mean time.
I do like to employ veterans, why, because they have a sence of humour, are generaly trust worthy, will go the extra mile and i just feel more comfortable around my own kind.
Hence as of September we should have a new member of the team in the form of Sgt Scott B. soon to be Mr Scott B. Scott is a REME mechanic who's just about done is 22year in Her Majesties forces. he is a life long shooter and hunter and is handy with his hands and speaks German and English. No he won't be apprenticing as a riflesmith, but his organisation skills, admin skills, people skills and personality will be just the ticket,. besides that being handy with his hands he will be fine for assembling stocks and he may progress top testing rifles at the range.

My post is now more than long enough and ive used enough time,
anyone thats treid to get us and failed. please send an email through either the webshop or website. it will be answered.
I can assure that we are alive and kicking and stil at the top of the game.

Pete


p.s. Engin. are you sure you are writing to the correct address. for stocks for Howas. [email protected]

for rifle questions [email protected]

it could be you are using the old roedaleprecision email addy which isn't correct any more.
please give it another try, at least to make sure the coms work.





 

palle2612

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Denmark. Thats Europe
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Hi Pete..

Been at your shop, seen your work, seen how busy you are, you have my respect and keep up the good work..

Some people just have too much spare time on their hands, so that's what they do..hell some may even have a problem with you using 30 min. to write this post..
crazy.gif

Think it was a good idea putting your probs(with customers) in text..

Regards
Palle
 

Pete Lincoln

Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Thankyou Palle. and all you other supportive guys,.

I get through about 125 rifle builds per year, which isn't bad going considering i build them all my self, test them all my self and each rifle is probably 5 trips to the range with running in the barrel, testing etc. and the range isn't just outside the workshop, its between 30min and 1 hour away.
we also have to have rifles proved in Europe, which can take time.
And ontop of that you can add the many own design products that are in production or are about to be in production.

I usualy have about orders for 70 rifles on going, I get 10 done and 10 more come in.
I take 60% deposit which about pays for the parts. ( yes I am to low in my margin I know) so delayed and paid for parts mean my profit which is in the last 40% is also delayed, just imagine 20 delayed rifles, which is about what is a constant number with one part an another. thats around 40 to 55 thousand Euro's worth of metal, carbon fiber or alloy sat there looking pretty, dead money when one single part for maybe $100 to $375 per rifle is missing. Its also 20 to 30 thousand Euro's worth of my work that has been completed to 95% but hasn't been paid for. Its bread and butter that isn't on the table, ok no one is going hungry, but staff need paying, new products need developing, the electric costs money.
Some guys opt to pay 100% up front, but they do that because they get a discount for doing so, I don't demand 100%.

I don't want anyone to think I am anti customer, I am not.
I'm not having a go at the Austrian guy, who i've PM'd and as soon as i confirm who the guy is, I will be doing all I can to come to a solution with him. If it is who i think, then he has been patient when compared to some.and both of us have been unfortunate in the choice of components.
When one thing in a rifle build gets delayed it starts a vicouse circle, because when i'm chasing after one thing, i'm not doing another.
But words often get turned around.

<span style="font-style: italic">I got quoted 4-6 months max build time</span>
yes absolutely correct, from the day that all parts are on shelf. not from order to finish.

Whilst I agree that it shouldn't take 2 years to build a rifle. Ive actualy waited 2 1/2 years longer than the quoted 6 months for some imported rifle actions. Thats 3 years from order to me recieving actions ! some actions ordered and paid for never even arrived ! same goes for certain stocks.
I'm not going to rag anyone or any company by name publicly. But so many of my own products are the result of having to manufacture parts that have been ordered and not supplied. The rest are own ingenuity.

Another big problem is that when customer have time to spend waiting, they search around then internet and come up with new gadgets to add, or want to change to a new stock design, or a new trigger etc. problem bieng that when the build is delayed because of thier extra wishes, the date of the original order is always quoted as the oh so long time frame, and not the daate of the change request that caused the damn delay in the 1st place.

Some customers simply cannot comprehend that a rifle builder is only as good as his suppliers.
" your stock isn't unfortunately here yet" seems to have been said in chineese, as it hasn't been under stood.
<span style="font-style: italic">But i want my stock to be here now</span> stamping feet on ground like an 8 year old.
" Sorry but its not here yet, Ive chased it up and hopefully it will ship soon"
<span style="font-style: italic">But I want it now,now now, make it appear</span>
"I will call you as soon as it arrives and ensure that the job is done asap but I cannot waste anymore time explaining the situation for the 5th time"
at some point the passifyer (dummy) is spat out, or the teddy thrown from the pram and abuse starts.and then a call is made twice a day to see if part X has arrived yet.
Thats 1 to 2 calls per day, times by 20, times by at least 5 minutes, sometimes 15 to 30minutes. that translates to HOURS lost every single damn day because some part isn't on time.

Some even go as far as to have thier lawyers write in, which costs money every time, demanding that part X be procured by a given date or else.

If i could cut rifle parts from my bones, I would have fallen to the floor in a pile long since as I'd have no bones left.

This is the reason that I'm sick to death of the, "one of a kind, made to order to customer specs" rifle business. Its a great idea, giving folk a choice of absolutely anything, but Its a dog chasing his tail. Its not what I want to do anymore.
Its fine if you build 20 rifles per year and they cost upwards of 10 grand. but at 100 rifles per year costing beween 3 and 4 grand, the whole machine just does not run smoothly enough.

I want to build rifles that I know are just right, perfection in riflery. my rifles, my specs, my design. Not a bunch of parts collected from all over the world because the customer drooles over them. leaving me to see how to fit them together and chase after the missing link.

I know for a fact that I'm not the only riflesmith that suffers the same problems, especialy over here in Europe. I seem to take more flack than most because I lead a very open and public life and I have had some sever knockbacks in my personal life over the last couple of years.
I'm way too honest, and way to nice.

The only way forward for me is the way I / we are going.

reduce the options, limited range of specs based on reliably available parts.
right, time for bed, 17hours is enough for today.

rgds Pete
 

ChrisF

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2002
735
1
New Zealand
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?


My wait for actions , has nothing to do with Pete & Roedale , as they are American made actions , I was just using it as a example ( to show the lenght of time requied to get somethings , due to manufactoring problems or redtape ) , of actually how long I have had to wait , and am still waiting to get my actions out of the US , soon it will be close to 2 yrs , and still no actions .

I am a dealer & all my paper work is correct , I still believe that if you have NOT actually experienced the difficulties 1st hand ( ie tryed to import a rifle or action ) , then you KNOW NOTHING .

Later Chris
 

757Fixer

Private
Minuteman
Apr 15, 2006
23
0
Abbotsford, BC Canada
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

I ordered a muzzle brake for my TRG42 and although the German government is slow with export permits the brake itself is excellent and I would'nt hesitate to recommend Roedale to others.
 

Kane2081

Private
Minuteman
Jul 29, 2010
7
0
40
Australia
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

For what it's worth...

I too have just ordered a brake from Roedale.

In light of the recent posts regarding turn-around times (mostly regarding custom rifles) I was a little apprehensinve about placing my order... but gave Roedale a chance.

A week later I was informed that the breaks were still with the coaters and SHOULD be back ready to ship soon... "here we go" I thought... (forgive me).

I replied to the notification and was very pleased to receive prompt reply and explanation of the situation. Suffice to say I am now happy to report that my personal dealings with Mr Lincoln and Roedale have been nothing less than totally professional.

Thank you Pete and Geoff.

Kane.
(new to the 'hide)
 

EventHorizon

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Oct 31, 2009
429
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NC
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

How one runs their business is their choice and is not an excuse for shoddy communications. When a customer is given a timeline - by you - on the product they have paid you for - in advance - then it's not unreasonable to assume that you would keep that customer in the loop <span style="text-decoration: underline">regularly</span> - that might mean once a month.

This poor sod has saved up his cash and given you the compliment of sending it to you. You make it seem as though they should be grateful that you've deigned to take their money. I find your tone and attitude to be pretty crap and I bet it would piss you off no end if you were treated as you have treated this customer.

It's <span style="text-decoration: underline">his</span> money sitting in your bank account, providing you with cashflow to run your business while he's twiddling his thumbs and wondering if you're even in business, losing interest on that money as well as being out of a rifle that he may have planned trips, events and competitions around. His cost, so far, exceeds what he's paid IMHO.

Return his call. Show him the respect a trusting customer deserves.

PS - your rifles look marvelous.
 

sharac

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Dec 8, 2008
521
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Slovenia
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Pete: Maybe you should quit and do something else if it bothers you that much...
I do agree with you that dealing with different suppliers and poor craftsmanship can be a royal pain however noone actually forces you to do this. You seem (as i've been told by some who are also in the que...) to have no problem (or rant needed) when accepting payments and once we are talking about 3-4K€ and unreasonable wait time people get upset and that is something YOU will have to DEAL with if you intend to still be able to do 125 or so rifles per year...


PS: just to add end user HAS absolutely nothing to do with YOUR suppliers what end user has is a business arrangement with you that for xy amount of todays money you will deliver xy artifact in xy time and it is YOU who cant deliver (whatever reason it might be) and under European Law and Consumer protection schemes here it is YOU who is responsible as YOU took the money. I'm really pissed by such dealers as i got scammed by similar business (Irish living in Austria
smile.gif
) in a very similar fashion (Interpol finally got to him as he owed in excess of 70k€ to various people). And lack of communications is a first warning end user gets and don't be surprised if some will get even more annoying than just phone calling...
From end user perspective if i pay you 3k€ today for something you promise to deliver in 1 year (for example) i just took away 3k€ of future value (i could make by investing, ordering hookers whatever...) and if that deal goes beyond a year to 2 or 3 then what?? I really don't find your rant justified as we are not talking about picnic stuff here but normal (abnormal) business practices and people are totally correct in pointing them out whether you like it or not those seem to be the facts...
 

Pete Lincoln

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<span style="font-weight: bold">EventHorizon. Thats just it. we do not give a time line on one of a kind rifles, its impossible. Customers have the choice of every stock type and manufacturer, every action type and manufacturer, every barrel type and manufacturer in the world. Some even want parts that have been anounced but aren't due in production for 12 months, or that need to be specialy made one off. just comprihend the amount of choice that is, its hundreds of different suppliers and thousands of different parts.
Its only possible to say that a rifle will be finished on average in between 3 and 6 months after all parts arrive.</span>

How one runs their business is their choice and is not an excuse for shoddy communications. When a customer is given a timeline - by you - on the product they have paid you for - in advance - then it's not unreasonable to assume that you would keep that customer in the loop regularly - that might mean once a month.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I agree with you, but fact of the matter is, with the choice as wide as it is, this would means requesting updates from each and evers supplier of every part one per month, then putting all that info together x 70 customers and disceminating it. That alone is a full time job for which I do not have the time. Emplying some one to do it is a waste of money and just puts the price of the end product up.
It is just not a realistic propersition when dealing with 70 absolutels unique one of a kind builds at any one time.
Things will change when the series customs get going full swing, we've got the coms sorted on that, the progress is viewable online and each customer gets a password to access the progress his own build data should he wish.
Suppliers do not give any periodic update at all by the way. It would help if they did. </span>

This poor sod has saved up his cash and given you the compliment of sending it to you. You make it seem as though they should be grateful that you've deigned to take their money. I find your tone and attitude to be pretty crap and I bet it would piss you off no end if you were treated as you have treated this customer.

<span style="font-weight: bold">It wasn't meant to sound that way and if it was taken that way I appologise. as i noted, it was my time for a rant for a change, if it was taken out of context then i'm sorry. aside from that, how do you think I and many others feel to be treated the was we are by suppliers, exporters, shippers and buroctrats?</span>

It's his money sitting in your bank account, providing you with cashflow to run your business while he's twiddling his thumbs and wondering if you're even in business, losing interest on that money as well as being out of a rifle that he may have planned trips, events and competitions around. His cost, so far, exceeds what he's paid IMHO.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Thats where your wrong, as the money is sat in some suppliers bank account. no one was wondering if we are in business, simply looking at the web and calling the phone answers that. Like i said, its impossible to give a production date for the stated reasons and it would be insane to plan trips or events on a guestimate of time frame.</span>

Return his call. Show him the respect a trusting customer deserves. <span style="font-weight: bold">that goes without saying, I have certainly called and not got through for whatever reason, many can't use thier mobile phones at work, some go on world cruises and disapear for a year others don't answer emails.</span>

PS - your rifles look marvelous. <span style="font-weight: bold">Thankyou !</span>

Sharac.
believe me, ive thought about it !! go back to the space agency and flying satellites for a living, was a whole hell of a lot less hassle, I do however realy like my job of building rifles and designing kit for shooters. and that the whole supply issue and associated problems bothers me is a good thing, it wouldn't be right if it didn't bother me.
No one forces me to do the job, thats true, and the end user does however have a lot to do with the suppliers, they are the customer choice and not mine. Every custom riflesmith in Europe takes a deposit on the commissioning of a build, its impossible to do the job without, and the parts are so individual, it would be fatal not to take a deposit.
Coms is one thing, that would work much better if so much time wasn't wasted chasing supply.
I sympathise with you on your problems with such dealers, ( would interest me to know who by the way) you are not the only one who has been ripped off.The Unfortunately its the guy at the end of the line before the end user who is left carrying the can.
We order the parts that the customer specificatly wants. His chosen supplier fails to deliver and its our fault ?? go figure. its the law though, hence the reason that for quite a while now if customers want barrels, stocks or anything else that I know might be difficult to get, I have them organise to supply it so I don't get the agro.
Justified or not my rant gives the true picture of what is involved and its something that most end users simply have no idea of.
As Chris said, he's now waiting 2 years on actions from the USA. Longest ive waited was 3 years. It makes the job of riflesmithing anyhwere outside the USA doubley difficult when compared to doing it within the USA.

I've identified the problem areas a while back. basicaly bieng away for 3 months in the UK set me back a bit but we have taken, and are still taking great steps to change the whole way that the business works from start to finish. The problems have to be encountered before one realises they exist, then solutions can be found.
Suppliers are reduced to a minimum.local manufacture is put in to action as far as possible and choice of parts is reduced to what can he delieverd quickly and reliably.
Take a look at the EU rifle scene, speak to any smith, they will have encountered more or less the same supply issues, and then take a look at the icreasing self sufficiency of the EU rifle scene, just look at how many new products are coming onto the market to fill the void.
I'd like to think that we are at the forefront of this wave of new developements, I'm pushing as hard as hell to make things happen right here and within 6 months to a year a totaly different scenario will be in force.
Ive totaly stopped taking 1 of a kind commissions. Orders taken now are only on rifles that resemble exactly what the series custom rifles are spec'd at.
I intend to have all outstanding one of a kind builds completed by the end of the year and will be glad to be through with them, and am looking forward to producing more than 125 rifles per year, I plan on 300 which with the right parts is absolutely realistic.
all I san say is bear with us for now, we are on with it... and watch this space.
regards Pete
 

SurgeonPredator

barrel boy
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2008
291
2
38
South Germany
www.lothar-walther.de
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Sad thing is a lot of people ordering a custom rifle lack the respect for the gunsmith and their daily struggle building the customers rifle to his specs and expectations.

Patience is another virtue not everyone heard of, it seems.

I believe if people knew what "custom" really means, they'd change their opinion.

I worked long enough in a small company machining prototypes for racing, medical innovations and unique punching and deep drawing tools to know that "custom" is about superior quality, durability and functionality. Time and money are irrelevant if it comes to a true one-of-a-kind production.

Some of our customers even paid a bonus if we met the schedule for complex and difficult tools/parts. Not many would do that for a rifle build, right?

Now go figure how you really appreciate the work of your gunsmith.
 

Spuhr

Gunny Sergeant
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Sep 25, 2009
1,132
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51
Sweden
www.spuhr.com
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

I once had a customer who promised me 600 dollar bonus if the pistol was finnished 2 months before promised time.
But STI screwed the deliverys up and delivered substandard pieces that had to be returned and thus we couldent make it.
Pretty annoying.....

Håkan
 

Pete Lincoln

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Ive had customers offer to pay me double to drop everything and do thier rifle now.
I wont do it. it would not be fair to everyone else who is patiently waiting.
rifles get build according to the schedule of parts arrival,
quickest I did yet was 16 days from order to delivery, longest probably 4 years.
Pete
 

Pete Lincoln

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

how about this:


This is my rifle. There are none like it, this one is mine, it was built for me to my specifications. My rifle is my best friend. My Riflesmith is my best friend. I must master it as I must master my life. My rifle, without me is an example of precision riflesmith engineering,but without me is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my competitors who are trying to beat me. I must shoot tighter groups, read the wind better and hold my aim truer before they beat me. I will...

My rifle and myself know that what counts is not the time taken or the cost involved in the realisation of my dream rifle, We know that it is the precision that count. We will shoot precisely...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn it has no weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are to become world class competitors. We are the masters of our chosen disciplin. We are the saviors of the sport. So be it, until victory is mine and every competition is won!

hope that don't offend any US Marines.

Pete
 

SurgeonPredator

barrel boy
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Nov 25, 2008
291
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38
South Germany
www.lothar-walther.de
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

haha..nice one, Pete...now go build some rifles and let others do the poetry
laugh.gif


just kidding, mate!

Paying double to get the rifle done before others is not what I meant.

More like a monetary "thank you" if suppliers and gunsmith deliverd in time.

Paying a bonus to get the work done in less time is not good either. Quality takes time, pushing that with "bribes" won't help and might influence a shady smith to neglect other builds.
 

dksd39

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Oct 17, 2006
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Hollywood, FL/ Kentucky
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

While I can sympathize with both sides of this situation.... I would like to point out that there have been MANY similar sounding stories over the past few years. I am sure those that have been on snipers hide for a while can provide a list of builders and or businesses that have gone to shit and a common denominator of their downward spiral was poor communication. For the most part- consumers can wait extremely long times if they are regularly communicated with (coddled). In my humble opinion...if you are busy enough to be bothered by the phone you are doing well. That said, post limited phone hours and hire a competent part time employee (maybe easier said than done) to allow customers to receive updates and have comfort in the fact that someone is actually there for them.
 

dbateman

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Apr 6, 2010
907
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Mt Isa QLD, Australia
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

I have never dealt with Roedale
but I have seen the way Pete Lincoln deal's with people(customers) on the hide and his company is first rate from what I have seen

I would love to own a rifle that he built

Pete is a good man from what I have seen of him.... he go's the extra mile

. Dave
 

sharac

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Dec 8, 2008
521
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Slovenia
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Pete: Gary Powell of "Kgindustries.eu - taken down now still has web www.weaponkote.com" i was able to recover some loss by accepting stuff he had lying around but that's not really important.

I haven't ordered anything from you however if i were to request and pay for a full custom i'd expect an honest estimate on timeframe and notification if problems arose immediately. If i were to decide on a rifle which takes 3year to build there is no way in hell i'd order one from one man band as (god forbid) many things can happen which can make my down payment go well...down... (as i come from IT waters i've seen it many times where personal tragedies, stuff out of their control etc. caused companies plenty of trouble as otherwise superb people/companies failed to deliver on promises) So i really hope you manage to do well with your series projects as this might actually be the way to go here in Europe as our shooting scene is pathetic compared to US...

You can be best guy around with best of intentions but that in business world means almost nothing if (whatever reasons...) you can't take care of costumers wishes or deliver whats been promised and paid for...
 

Mr Flannel

Self-Licking Icecream
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Feb 3, 2006
146
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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dksd39</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While I can sympathize with both sides of this situation.... I would like to point out that there have been MANY similar sounding stories over the past few years. I am sure those that have been on snipers hide for a while can provide a list of builders and or businesses that have gone to shit and a <span style="font-weight: bold">common denominator of their downward spiral was poor communication</span>. For the most part- consumers can wait extremely long times if they are regularly communicated with (coddled). In my humble opinion...if you are busy enough to be bothered by the phone you are doing well. That said, post limited phone hours and hire a competent part time employee (maybe easier said than done) to allow customers to receive updates and have comfort in the fact that someone is actually there for them. </div></div>

Amen to this. At the end of the day, no comms = vacuum that people will fill. People who haven't been communicated with start to form a view that they're being hosed over, with their money gone south or being used by the business to pay other bills and this starts a vicious circle. I think a lot of smiths/builders don't pay enough attention to their own brand management - in terms of perceptions of past, current and potential future customers. As the somewhat edited saying goes: "You can build a thousand fantastic rifles, but if you fuck one goat, you'll always be a goat fucker". It only takes a few poor efforts with comms or anything else and then people talk (sometimes accurately, sometimes not) and that business can then start to kiss their arse goodbye. Some people might scream and hurl abuse at people who question a good bloke's/their friend's business practices but that is no defence at all. Shit sticks. There are many alternatives out there, many shooters are conservative by nature - so why put your money where you think there's a potentially unacceptable risk? Where there is doubt, there is no doubt. I certainly wouldn't do it.

Paying customers do not and never should be expected to take on the risk of the business. Pete, I laud your attempts to take over your own supply chain and mitigate the risk you have from upstream component suppliers (also great to see component diversification outside the US, particularly when it's good kit) - because the reasons for problems will only wash for so long. Your problems aren't the customer's at the end of the day.
 

Pete Lincoln

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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

surgeon predator, you find me at the pc when i'm booking rifles in with the courier or running the cnc engraver. otherwise i'm tied to the lathe eh..

Sharac believe it or not I knew exactly who you where going to say. a mate of mine used to work for Gary and go done over too.
Last I heared Gary was coating for Steyr, you know if thats changed.?
Well we aren't a 1 man band any more, but there is only me riflesmithing, and time frame estimates are fairly impossible when you consider the choice offered to a one of a kind customer. That is one of the things that can change when building series customs, and I agree with all you have said, and the only way to do the job right is the way we are going and have been going for about the last 6 months and working towards for the last 18months, hell I've only been running the business full time for 2 1/2 years !!, also how much work and expense do you think goes into setting such an endevor up. ? Ive personaly put about 80grand into the creation of own new products over the last 2 years, and countless countless hours.
If you just look at the line up of own products we deal with, i'm sure that you won't find another company in Europe that compares. You may find plenty who have more products, but own design, new on the market, i doubt it. anyhow, we aren't where I want to be yet, but we are sure as hell on the right track.

dksd39. we've got limited telephone times posted up,. you think anyone sticks to em ? no way.
communication is good, ours could be better, but until Scott joins us, Geoff has only one mouth and so do I, 50% of calls are for " Pete's Gunpedia" general info nothing to do with the business, they mean guys with orders don't get through, but once your on the phone, its impolite to be unhelpfull. The opther thing is, that it wouldn't matter if i had 6 telephonists, every body wants to talk to me, Goeff is perfectly capable of handling 80% of all questions, but when he answers them, folks insist on hearing the same answer from me also. How the hell thats supposed to change Ive no idea, I know I can do 1 of 2 things, spend all day building rifles and creating new gadgets, or spend all day on the damn phone, both is impossible.
mollycoddling is however not my style, I believe that a customer should find the right man for the job, and then let him get on with it.

Priest I agree with you too mate, with the firearms industry the way it is, its sure pays to be self sufficient as far as possible. some parts still have to be outsourced though, but minimising the supply problems is minimising my problems, and my customers problems, but I never expect to be able to keep all of the people happy all of the time.
We are in no danger of going under at all, we've too much work, not too little and we are expanding to cope with it all.
Once the supply chain is sorted, and we aren't far off that now, I expect a whole lot less hassle and can enjoy building a whole lot more rifles. Ive Built 8 this week already mind !! and its only wednesday afternoon.
regds Pete
 

sharac

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Dec 8, 2008
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Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Dunno what i've found and what police told me he has claimed personal bankruptcy and owes in excess of 70k€ to various people and businesses. I intended to purchase IOR from him but he started making excuses (DVT syndrome etc...) and wasn't able to deliver (got some things i knew he had in shop to atleast get part of my money back). Small businesses got hit badly here in Slovenia too and i think Austria/Italy as well so i'm quite happy i got atleast some of it back... Lots of people going bust and money upfront is really a gamble nowadays...

Wish you luck i sure hope you'll be able to get things sorted out as having such options here in Europe is really a good thing...
 

Oddball Six

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Apr 2, 2010
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40°25′N, 104°43′W
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

Pete.

Invest in someone to re-do your website or just 'extend' it with an extra tool or two.

Build in a tool which shows the status of what parts are relevant to the order.

Get a part in, update the tool.

Your customers can look in the tool any time and see when the last update on thier order was and what notes/status information is in the tool.

Takes you 2 seconds to update when you recieve a part, and could save you a lot of phone calls and community grief.
 

MinorDamage

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Mar 21, 2006
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Edgewater, MD
Re: Roedale Precision - does it still exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pete.

Invest in someone to re-do your website or just 'extend' it with an extra tool or two.

Build in a tool which shows the status of what parts are relevant to the order.

Get a part in, update the tool.

Your customers can look in the tool any time and see when the last update on thier order was and what notes/status information is in the tool.

Takes you 2 seconds to update when you recieve a part, and could save you a lot of phone calls and community grief. </div></div>

OddBall,

Can you honestly list 3 other custom rifle makers that have this feature?

Josh