PRS Talk  RRS rail or Picatinny for PRS

DaveM

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I need to adapt a rifle forend for PRS competition use. I may be having a rail custom made/installed into the forend I have.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to which system is better for bipod use and why? RRS rail or picatinny? Tripod use isn't huge around here, but I can see how it could be.
 
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noisewaterphd

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I use Arca for bipods. Full length rail, easy to slide bipod wherever I might need it. Also, it's ready to attach to my tripod when needed.
 

kthomas

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ARCA is shaping up to be the new standard for this specific discipline. There is lots of flexibility with an ARCA system, much more so than a picatinny. I think you will see a lot more aftermarket parts coming out in the near future equipped for ARCA.

I swapped out the picatinny system on my chassis with an ARCA system. Zero regrets.
 

morganlamprecht

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yup, arca is looking good...been running the RRS bipod mount that can attach to both pic and arca so that my atlas bipods are still usable on all my other rifles that arent setup with a full arca rail, and its been great
 

Sheldon N

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Yes, Arca is the way to go. Full length cut on an MPA chassis combined with a RRS clamp and bipod adapter. Let's you quickly push the bipod close to the mag well. With a small rear bag under the grip handle of the MPA and the bipod slid all the way back you can go "prone" on obstacles as short as 12 inches.
 

mlpkhl

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I would love it if you guys would stop calling it Arca, arca-swiss, etc. Most shooters don’t know, Arca-Swiss is a French camera manufacturer that helps the firearms industry in no way what so ever. I work for RRS and we made our “RRS Dovetail” standard open source for firearms manufacturers to use.... Since we make tripod mounts for some rifle systems it seems as if they do not want to push our name in worry of competing product lines. I get that but it’s our standard, finally a standard actually specified for all to use. That is just my two cents during my vacation.

Anyway to answer the question... the RRS Dovetail is an awesome tool to have on your rifle for positional shooting. It has became a huge help to some shooters in a short amount of time enabling shooters to move barricade stops, tripods, bipods, and a host of other products wherever they want with our patented lever release system. So going with a build fully for prs I would use a full length Dovetail system or use a shorter RRS Dovetail plate on a hunting rifle and ensure you use the supplied safety stops that you should have with your gear, on the off chance something fails. We all know Murphy can find a way.
 
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JS624

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Another vote for the arca rail.
check out sawtooth rifles there making custom arca rail plate adapters for a variety of platforms.
 

epracmetcon

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Check out the ingenuity gunworks rail. It is by far the best rail I have seen and personally used. Much faster than any other system. Uses a push button with detent's to slide along the rail.
 
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noisewaterphd

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I would love it if you guys would stop calling it Arca, arca-swiss, etc. Most shooters don’t know, Arca-Swiss is a French camera manufacturer that helps the firearms industry in no way what so ever. I work for RRS and we made our “RRS Dovetail” standard open source for firearms manufacturers to use.... Since we make tripod mounts for some rifle systems it seems as if they do not want to push our name in worry of competing product lines. I get that but it’s our standard, finally a standard actually specified for all to use. That is just my two cents during my vacation.

Anyway to answer the question... the RRS Dovetail is an awesome tool to have on your rifle for positional shooting. It has became a huge help to some shooters in a short amount of time enabling shooters to move barricade stops, tripods, bipods, and a host of other products wherever they want with our patented lever release system. So going with a build fully for prs I would use a full length Dovetail system or use a shorter RRS Dovetail plate on a hunting rifle and ensure you use the supplied safety stops that you should have with your gear, on the off chance something fails. We all know Murphy can find a way.

So, Arca invented it, but you've taken their system and decided on some set of "standard" measurements Arca compatible systems should use. Maybe everyone else will use these measurements (that would indeed be nice, and thank you for your effort to standardize), maybe they won't. But, you also now want to pretend that Arca never invented the system and we should instead call them RRS rails? Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet, but the overtones of entitlement might have just put me in a bad mood for the day.
 

mlpkhl

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I apologies if you didn’t understand my comment. I work with it daily so I have some background info and forget that others don’t.

There is no standard called Arca, there is no company called Arca, in what meaning I am referring too. “ARCA” has just become a common term for a type of rail.

Arca-Swiss makes a lot of camera products along with some plates, alot of companies and other photographers make plates the have a Dovetail built in. The problem is they use different angles and different widths without documenting what they use. RRS has been making plates with a dovetail for 27 years and we are finally trying to standardize it and have it open source so everyone can use it.

My issue was we start helping out the industry with more more and more products, then it gets adopted by the industry, cool right? The problem is is if someone takes the exact specs we put on the web, then they call it a different name, people start thinking they are the same thing. So people like me who talk to shooters pick up a call when someone bought a arca plate off line and install their bipod, recoil made the bipod jump off the end and the user almost shoots his son in the leg with the second round from semi auto. I am just trying to let others know.

No overtones of entitlement but if you you want to think that way I can’t stop you. I am not a writer so I hope my point can come through over text. If not feel free to call me, Michael 805-548-1534 I’m back in the office the 2nd and I’ll explain my reasoning and the premis behind it.

Arca is simply becoming a common term, sucks but whatever. I don’t want you guys to assume every dovetail is the same spec and entrust your rifles withit just because others in the industry use it. If you can, please use safety stops so nothing happens in worst case scenario like “guy above”.
 
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mlpkhl

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None!!

I love this sport and will explain till I’m red in the face about it!

As far as I know we are the only photography company that has publicly went into the firearms business and doesn’t hide our support. In the past 2 years we have given almost 100k to shooters, competitions, military competitions , and some charity driven events pushed by shooters.
 

matt2143

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    Major kudos to Michael and RRS for pushing their R&D above and beyond. Support those who support the sport. I would also urge guys, if they are looking for something that doesn't exist or totally fit their needs, give Michael a call as he is a wealth of knowledge on the subject. RRS is responding to the shooters by offering more rifle components to specifically exploit all the benefits that the RRS dovetail can provide. But if you don't ask you won't get.
     

    Natestreo

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    I would love to see the M-LOK, Keymod, Picatinny and Anschultz universal plates offered in various lengths from RRS. That would essentially let me buy a, lets say 6", RRS dovetail Keymod adapter plate for my AX and give myself a lot more flexibility in mounting. I guess theres nothing wrong with continuing to use the 6" picatinny keymod rail sections that I already have alongside the BTC-Pro clamp, but I would love to move away from the Picatinny and get more and more invested into RRS Dovetail for my precision rifles. Instead of having to buy a chassis such as the MPA with a dovetail cut, this would allow shooters to use the chassis that they already have.
     

    MPHReallyRightStuff

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    Natestreo We do have plans for it, sorry for the inconvenience of waiting. We have a lot of new pieces for 2018 and finding machining time is pretty difficult honestly. I do personally prefer to always keep a section of picatinny out front on my rifle though. It acts as a safety stop just in case the lever/knob were accidently loosened or something went wrong for some reason.
     

    Natestreo

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    Awesome! Thanks for the insight. It’s great to see a company innovating and listening to what it’s customers are asking for.
     

    DP425

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    I think the general term will be. Bummer, so many tolerance deviations associated with the name, and they don't help shooters. You can't win them all.

    After reading what Micheal wrote, I'll at least pay attention, and push the info out that he gave us. And I won't refer to dove-tailed base plates as "Arca". It's important to know, that there isn't really a universal standard in dovetail bases between different manufactures.

    I'll also take this opportunity to mention how it's nice that your accessories are in the "affordable" realm for most shooters. While the tripods and heads themselves may be out of reach for many, the clamps, plates, and what not, should be within reach for most, and would allow RRS uniformity and quality on everything from the clamp on up; using products specifically spec'ed for the use. I feel personally, this is a point that isn't stressed/advertised enough.
     

    Enthusiastic_Amateur

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    Natestreo We do have plans for it, sorry for the inconvenience of waiting. We have a lot of new pieces for 2018 and finding machining time is pretty difficult honestly. I do personally prefer to always keep a section of picatinny out front on my rifle though. It acts as a safety stop just in case the lever/knob were accidently loosened or something went wrong for some reason.

    Like many I suspect, I’ve been using the Manfrotto system with pistol grip head. I’m not unhappy with Manfrotto but with an MPA on the way, I’d like to affordably convert my Manfrotto to be able to utilise the rail system. Aside from buying a new head, are there any conversations and quick release clamps that you sell which would enable me to keep using the pistol grip and / or the Manfrotto tripod ? Thx
     

    DP425

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    Like many I suspect, I’ve been using the Manfrotto system with pistol grip head. I’m not unhappy with Manfrotto but with an MPA on the way, I’d like to affordably convert my Manfrotto to be able to utilise the rail system. Aside from buying a new head, are there any conversations and quick release clamps that you sell which would enable me to keep using the pistol grip and / or the Manfrotto tripod ? Thx

    You could very likely put one of their ballheads on your tripod if you want to skip the pistol grip. If you want to retain it, you can certainly install one of their clamps on it.
     

    MPHReallyRightStuff

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    TJC the absolute cheapest way to attach your pistol grip to our RRS Dovetail is to simply use that RC@ connector that your tripod comes with, and screw it in to the bottom of one of our clamps. It is ugly, but it''ll get your rifle attached...

    The link I will put below this is one of our clamps with threaded sections in the middle. I think youd have to use a bushing as well.

    http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/B2-LR-II-Lever-release-clamp
     

    Enthusiastic_Amateur

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    TJC the absolute cheapest way to attach your pistol grip to our RRS Dovetail is to simply use that RC@ connector that your tripod comes with, and screw it in to the bottom of one of our clamps. It is ugly, but it''ll get your rifle attached...

    The link I will put below this is one of our clamps with threaded sections in the middle. I think youd have to use a bushing as well.

    [video]http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/B2-LR-II-Lever-release-clamp[/video]

    Thanks. Just so I’m clear, that connects direct to the tripod ? Is there a product that would interface with the pistol grip so that I have some ability to pan/tilt ? Can I attach this lever release clamp to that Manfrotto grip ?

     

    Mattio

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    Arca rails are nice... but spendy... ive used Kinect QD MOLK mounts for my bi-pod with great success...

    check out how they work
     

    DaveM

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    I ended up getting the RRS/Arca rail for the J Allen I have, and am having a friend custom fabricate another one for my Tubb rifle. The RRS mounts are super sweet.
     

    usafa77

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    Thanks for the tip on Sawtooth rifles. I just ordered a Keymod RRS rail for my Ruger RPR. Area419 has the mloc, but said it will be "awhile" before they have Keymod.
     

    rocklinux

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    really enjoy my sawtooth rail. Not sure how must I've had to change the bipod length on the fly but...
     

    shooterpunk

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    So is the 1.5" a standard size for quick release heads?

    I'm really just looking for a decent cheap way to mount my ar15 on a budget tripod, but in my research it seems much more difficult than it should.
     

    Frankly

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    I’ve used the RRS photography gear for twenty years and also wrote the history and marketing materials for the French owners of Arca-Swiss... It would be a lot more accurate to call these the RRS Dovetail rather than “Arca” because RRS really innovated and shepherded the development with hundreds of products while Arca-Swiss ignored the demand and let it languish while the Chinese knocked it off with thousands of good to awful imitations.

    And a dovetail in itself is not exactly a new invention, it’s thousands of years old... the hard work is determining a standard with consistent angles, materials, and dimensions.

    Finally for all the new customers RRS found in the shooting community, you know they lost a number of SJW frail artiste photographers horrified at the thought of dealing with a company that supports and enjoys shooting sports.

    Certain European frogs were snobby a-holes to work with and they screwed me in the end ~ it’s wonderful to be retired and tell it like it is.
     
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    Jbova

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    I just attached the Area 419 Arca rail last night. Haven’t got to use it yet but it’s very nice for the price. Any Arca attachments will work so I can use my MPA RAT system stuff with it.
    8B46667B-5C72-41F9-9CD5-4D59385B4E16.jpeg
    792ECAF5-7FD7-4A01-AB27-FCCA9D03801F.jpeg
     

    sleeplz

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    Can the arca rail be inletted into a stock so that it doesn't stick out. @kabarNC, how does the bipod feel? Is there a lot of play or is it rock solid. If there is play, once you load the bipod can you feel any adverse movement?
     

    kabarNC

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    Can the arca rail be inletted into a stock so that it doesn't stick out. @kabarNC, how does the bipod feel? Is there a lot of play or is it rock solid. If there is play, once you load the bipod can you feel any adverse movement?


    I think the rail could be inletted a bit, but a little would still have to hang out the bottom of the inlet so the barricade blocks could pivot freely. And its not an arca rail per se, this rail itself is only 7/8ths in. wide.
    Bipod is dead solid, zero play in it from this rail system.

    20180504_200654.jpg


    Here's a little better shot of it. Super impressed, for me, on a barricade, it's way faster and more stable than using a gamechanger.
     

    RunninRebel

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    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but does anyone have suggestions a mounting system for an mdt chassis? I have an mdt lss, but the farthest forward I can mount a bipod with picatinny rails is still pretty close to the shooter. I would like to be able to mount it more forward for stability for longer range shooting, but possibly closer for positional shooting. Would any of these systems allow me to extend the rail more forward, and be compatible with the mlok slots on the chassis? Hope this makes sense. Thanks
     

    Dthomas3523

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    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but does anyone have suggestions a mounting system for an mdt chassis? I have an mdt lss, but the farthest forward I can mount a bipod with picatinny rails is still pretty close to the shooter. I would like to be able to mount it more forward for stability for longer range shooting, but possibly closer for positional shooting. Would any of these systems allow me to extend the rail more forward, and be compatible with the mlok slots on the chassis? Hope this makes sense. Thanks

    Area 419 makes an m-lok compatible arca/dovetail rail.
     

    Dthomas3523

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    I come from a mil/LE background. At first glance all this “gamer” stuff looks fancy but not practical.

    We are finding (some more slowly than others) that an arca/dovetail rail has endless real world applications.

    You can have a custom length on your bipod footprint or have locking wedges in a cattle gate. These are situations you could practically find yourself in for real.

    I was skeptical at first, but now arca/dovetail rails will be on all my platforms.
     
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    JayB

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    I apologies if you didn’t understand my comment. I work with it daily so I have some background info and forget that others don’t.

    There is no standard called Arca, there is no company called Arca, in what meaning I am referring too. “ARCA” has just become a common term for a type of rail.

    Arca-Swiss makes a lot of camera products along with some plates, alot of companies and other photographers make plates the have a Dovetail built in. The problem is they use different angles and different widths without documenting what they use. RRS has been making plates with a dovetail for 27 years and we are finally trying to standardize it and have it open source so everyone can use it.

    My issue was we start helping out the industry with more more and more products, then it gets adopted by the industry, cool right? The problem is is if someone takes the exact specs we put on the web, then they call it a different name, people start thinking they are the same thing. So people like me who talk to shooters pick up a call when someone bought a arca plate off line and install their bipod, recoil made the bipod jump off the end and the user almost shoots his son in the leg with the second round from semi auto. I am just trying to let others know.

    No overtones of entitlement but if you you want to think that way I can’t stop you. I am not a writer so I hope my point can come through over text. If not feel free to call me, Michael 805-548-1534 I’m back in the office the 2nd and I’ll explain my reasoning and the premis behind it.

    Arca is simply becoming a common term, sucks but whatever. I don’t want you guys to assume every dovetail is the same spec and entrust your rifles withit just because others in the industry use it. If you can, please use safety stops so nothing happens in worst case scenario like “guy above”.

    This is different from what I heard before and I could definitely have heard wrong. The way I heard it is that Arca Swiss invented the standard -- 38mm wide, 45 degree dovetail -- with a quick release system, and they made it popular by making ball head for it, and everyone including RRS just makes their clone rail and ball head. Arca Swiss invented the rail and quick release back in 1954. Most of the other clone makers did not start making their clones until the 1990s. Not trying to stir up the pot but please enlighten me.

    Here is a quote from RRS website from the founder: "Design really right stuff—make and market optimized plates that were all Arca-Swiss compatible. "
    http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/about-us
     
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    JOrisman

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    Arca or ingenuity is the way to go. Makes life easy. Have clamps, barricade stops, easily move bipod to where you need, can also easily put on a tripod.