Rifle Scopes S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

bm11

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I know this has been mentioned before, but I'm curious if there is an explanation. I just got my new 5-25x56, and like I have read before, my "zero stop" doesn't really stop the elevation knob at zero, it stops it at -.6 mils.

Is there a reason for this, or is it a defect? My 4-16x50 pmII zero stop stopped at zero. I know that on this scope I could zero at -0.6 mils, but then the markings on the knob wouldn't correlate. OR, I can do like I have been doing, just look at the knob to reset zero, but I pretty much lose the benefit of a zero stop at that point.

What give with this "feature?" I hate to sound like I'm complaining, especially if this carries some unknown benefit, but I feel that I have justification in griping, where I just spend $3k on this scope.

Thanks and I apologize if this is redundant.

-Bob
 

Nessal

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

If I understand you correctly, you are wondering why the zero stop doesn't stop at exactly zero but rather moves another .6mils? I actually set my scope like this incase you need to make adjustment the other way.
 

BFD711

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

Mine stops at -0.6 as well. Mechanically, it is due to a pin on the turret body coming into contact with the backside of the swiveling cusp which is on the underside of the turret cap. That swiveling cusp when ingaged from the frontside (pin engaging groove) changes the revolution indicator windows from black to yellow. It doesn't seem like this is an adjustable zero-stop.

As far as why you would want your turret to go below your zero, I believe the reason may be if you go to an area with extremely dirrerent atmospherics than you normally shoot at, your zero may be high. A close in shot in Denver for someone who nornally shoots at the coast will require you to dial below the zero set at the coast. Being able to dial below without breaking out the tools would be desireable. This is my guess only. Don't know what other reasons may exist.
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

I follow you guys, I can see where dialing below zero could be a benefit, however, it also negates my perception of the benefit of a zero stop. I thought the whole point was to be able to dial back to zero without even looking. Can't really do that here, unles you dial back to zero, then up 6 clicks again.

My other question then- is there any way to "fix" this?
 

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

At least you don't have to worry about being one full revolution below your normal zero.I've done it before in rifle matches with scopes that didn't have a zero stop,cursing follows as soon as you realise the mistake
wink.gif


I just set my zero stop on my new IOR at .5 mil below zero.I prefer it that way.
 

Rob01

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

I like that it goes below the zero mark myself and I also set my NF F1 at .5 mils below zero. It's good to be able to go below zero and not need tools to adjust the knobs incase of different environmentals, locations or ammo. If it was pitch black i would have no problem getting to my zero, down to bottom and dial up 6 clicks.

It's not a defect in the scope. The people who made it made it for that reason.
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's not a defect in the scope. The people who made it made it for that reason. </div></div>Ok, gotcha. Just found it odd because it is the same series scope, and my 4-16 was not that way.
 

300WSM

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

the 4-16 I had went like 2 clicks under zero.
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

So the general consensus is that this was deliberate? It does seem odd to me that it would be exactly .6 mils, if it were deliberate.
 

Rob01

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

Yes it is deliberate. Enjoy the scope.
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

Loving the scope, thanks!
 

psinclair

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

I've got two S&B 5-25's and both of those go 4 clicks under zero. Like the guys above said, I think its a good feature. Maybe its 4 instead of 6 because its Mil?
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got two S&B 5-25's and both of those go 4 clicks under zero. Like the guys above said, I think its a good feature. Maybe its 4 instead of 6 because its Mil? </div></div>Mine is mil? CCW, and yours?
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdwelch10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would want a zero stop to stop at zero lol </div></div>That's what I was thinking, but it's not a deal breaker I guess.
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

Just talked to Mark at Schmidt and Bender.

He confirmed that this is normal for these scopes, and was engineered this way. He said that it was supposed to be "somewhere around .5 mils."
 

Rob01

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

Guess you didn't believe us huh? Some around here know what they are talking about
wink.gif
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess you didn't believe us huh? Some around here know what they are talking about
wink.gif
</div></div>No, I believed you, I was actually calling about the MTC turrets, wanted to get a price on the upgrade. It was more of a "while I have you on the phone" type thing.
 

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

Take some more advice and save your money on the MTC turrets. Not just S&B specific but all MTC. They don't make life easier. Makes it tough to dial past them to .1 or .2 mils. The S&B dual turn knob has very good solid clicks and doesn't need an MTC.
 

bm11

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Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take some more advice and save your money on the MTC turrets. Not just S&B specific but all MTC. They don't make life easier. Makes it tough to dial past them to .1 or .2 mils. The S&B dual turn knob has very good solid clicks and doesn't need an MTC. </div></div>I agree, without even trying them! I like my turrets, and I might have considered trying the MTC's, if I could have been the installer, and if the price were right.

It was $500 and they had to do it. Furthermore, most of my range practice is restricted to 200 meters, which requires 0.6 mils of dope. I wouldn't even be taking advantage of the perceived benefit other than the occasional trip to a longer range. I really wanted to try them for the "tacticool" benefit more than anything, but not at that price.

Thanks for the advice,

-Bob
 

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    I agree with Rob, I've been around my fair share of MTC turrets and would prefer the standard double turn knob any day of the week.
     

    bm11

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    Yeah, I like the DT. Especially for the $500 "upgrade" cost.
     

    Rob01

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    That's the replacement cost to swap out the current knobs and replace them with the MTC. Not an upgrade if buying the scope new. Just wanted to clarify that for others.
     

    psinclair

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take some more advice and save your money on the MTC turrets. Not just S&B specific but all MTC. They don't make life easier. Makes it tough to dial past them to .1 or .2 mils. The S&B dual turn knob has very good solid clicks and doesn't need an MTC. </div></div>

    Agree 100%
     

    Rotortuner

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    I suprised that a scope that expensive doesnt stop exactly where you want it. When you set the NF zero stop up, you can have it wherever you want it, at zer, 2 clicks, 5 clicks, you name it it will do it.

    CJG
     

    Advokaten

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rotortuner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suprised that a scope that expensive doesnt stop exactly where you want it. When you set the NF zero stop up, you can have it wherever you want it, at zer, 2 clicks, 5 clicks, you name it it will do it.

    CJG </div></div>

    -Know your gear and you be alright, they more you can adjust, the more shit will self-adjust in the mean time.

    /Chris
     

    Rob01

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    Well said Chris.
     

    Aries64

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know this has been mentioned before, but I'm curious if there is an explanation. I just got my new 5-25x56, and like I have read before, my "zero stop" doesn't really stop the elevation knob at zero, it stops it at -.6 mils...</div></div>
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I follow you guys, I can see where dialing below zero could be a benefit, however, it also negates my perception of the benefit of a zero stop. I thought the whole point was to be able to dial back to zero without even looking. Can't really do that here, unles you dial back to zero, then up 6 clicks again.</div></div>
    If you think about it, being able to dial below "0" makes since. If you are zeroed at 100 yards, but need to make a shot closer than that you have to hold under.

    As long as you know your dope, if you have 0.5 MIL or so below "0" you have a choice between holding under or dialing down. I set both of my PMII 5-25Xs' to have .5 MIL of adjustment below my 100 yard zero.

    <span style="font-weight: bold">EDIT:</span> <span style="font-style: italic">As a point of interest, both of my PMII 5-25Xs' had 0.6 MIL below indicated "0" when I received them (NIB).</span>

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdwelch10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would want a zero stop to stop at zero lol </div></div>
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rotortuner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suprised that a scope that expensive doesnt stop exactly where you want it. When you set the NF zero stop up, you can have it wherever you want it, at zer, 2 clicks, 5 clicks, you name it it will do it.

    CJG </div></div>
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...My other question then- is there any way to "fix" this? </div></div>
    Yes. Go sight-in your rifle, loosen the Elevation turret screws, pull the turret up above the "O"-ring, reposition the turret with the "0" aligned with the index arrow, then re-tighten the Elevation turret screws. Done.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I like the DT. Especially for the $500 "upgrade" cost.
    </div></div>
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's the replacement cost to swap out the current knobs and replace them with the MTC. Not an upgrade if buying the scope new. Just wanted to clarify that for others. </div></div>
    <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">To bm11:</span></span> As <span style="font-style: italic">Rob01</span> stated in his reply to you, the <span style="font-style: italic">$500 "upgrade" cost</span> you mentioned is the cost of swapping out non-MTC turrets for MTC turrets'. Also, S & B still offers the (original) non-MTC turret PMII 5-25X, and now offers an MTC-turret PMII 5-25X as well as a PMII 5-25X with both the LT (Locking Turret) and MTC (More Tacile Click).

    And while you and others may know these next points, for clarification:

    - All PMII 5-25Xs' are DT (Double Turn), whether they are in 0.1 MIL or 1/4 MOA adjustment increments. The PMII 5-25X doesn't come in a ST (Single Turn) because an ST turret cannot accomodate the full range of the 5-25X (27.3 MIL and 56 MOA respectively).

    - All PMII 5-25Xs' are illuminated (LP) models (unless S & B produces or has produced special, non-illuminated units under contract).

    - Several posters have stated that the MTC turrets aren't required, and that the MTC turrets make it difficult to dial to 0.1 MIL or 0.2 MIL. From my experience with Premier and S & B MTCs', what these posters mean is that it is difficult to dial to 0.1 MIL or 0.2 MIL <span style="font-style: italic">past each (full) MIL.</span> This is because the extra effort required to dial past the heavy detent at each MIL typically results in over-shooting the 0.1 MIL and 0.2 MIL settings, so a conscious and deliberate effort must be made to stop at those points.


    Keith
     

    bm11

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    Keith-

    Thanks for your clarification. I am getting used to all the features of this scope nicely, and I can see the benefit in be able to dial below zero. I was the one who posted about the MTC turrets costing $500 to upgrade- that was based on my own call to S&B. I was interested in the "coolness" of it, but not at that price point, and especially not if there are negatives associated with it. Again- I do most of my practice within 200 meters, which only requires 0.6 mils.


    -BM
     

    Alpine 338

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    Re: S&B 5-25x56 pmII zero stop is 0.6 mils below zero?

    Bob,
    I received my 5-25 today, and it goes 0.5 mils below zero. I also like that P4F, it's just right, and not too fine at 25x.