Sad news from Remington

hermosabeach

Invite new Gun owners to the range in 2021
Banned !
Minuteman
 

357Max

Gunny Sergeant
PX Member
PX Member
Minuteman
  • Sep 11, 2019
    750
    881
    Marylandistan
    When they got in bed with Soros it was only a matter of time! He's a fucking parasite!
    I don't think it was a plot to deny us arms. It's just the modus operandi for these big venture capitalists. They buy up companies, merge them, reorganize them, and suck out every penny they can on the way out. Leaving them fucked.
     
    Last edited:

    sirhrmechanic

    Command Sgt. Major
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    dont forget CEOs making millions of dollars to run a 200+ year old business into the ground
    So what does this do to the value of Model 700 actions? Seems like we are sneering at stupid AR building while forgetting that the core of precision shooting (not to mention Fudd rifles) has been the 700 for decades.

    My guess is someone will buy the remnants from bankruptcy... but this not good any way you slice it.

    Sirhr
     
    • Like
    Reactions: lash

    IrishWind

    Laughing at the Absurdity of it all
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 23, 2003
    581
    472
    NoVa
    When Cerberus/Freedom group took over Remington and others, it was a bad day. A group of profiteers took over those companies and made decisions that went to maximize short term profits, not continue the long game of profits on making quality products. And now 15 years later those companies are paying the price. And the investment suits will still be playing games to protect their profits more as the company continues to either slide into history or someone buys them out.
     

    E. Bryant

    STABILITRAK ACTIVE
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Oct 25, 2010
    3,156
    3,124
    MI
    How can a gun or ammo company go out of business in this environment?

    Shitty management, shitty ownership, shitty leadership. I'm sure there are a few members here who could talk in detail about how guys like Stephen Feinberg, Robert Nardelli, and George Kollitides helped to run the company into the ground the first time around, but if one steps back from our normal perspective of "firearms enthusiast" and instead looks at this through the cold lens of the business world, it's just another example of poor strategy and execution.
     

    1moaoff

    Safe space provider? Nope!!!
    Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 16, 2008
    2,683
    5,840
    cincinnati, ohio
    They were way over leveraged to begin with because of how deals in the past were structured. The industry is busy but busy and long term profits do not always coincide. Especially when the market is changing. Even a 5 % loss in rifles is huge to them. They dont have growth.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,152
    20,500
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    Hi,

    Poor management, lack of return on marketing investments, etc etc...
    Think about this for a moment..
    How many National and International exhibitions does Remington participate in during a calendar year?
    Since they have been in business soooo long, does anyone think they actually gain NEW business at these exhibitions?
    They have long been "branded" in the market space so it does not take participating in an exhibition to continue and grow their sales.
    For example....
    Just their typical Shot Show floor space (NOT THE BOOTH) is 100k to 200k+.
    Multiply that by 5 National and International shows a year.
    Then add the cost of graphics per show (That is assuming they keep same booth design/layout).
    Then add the cost of getting 80 personnel to the show, accommodation's, etc etc
    Be willing to bet that in a Calendar year their Exhibition participation budget is from 1.5 to 2million USD.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    rtB

    Gunny Sergeant
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 29, 2019
    643
    1,375
    Payson, AZ
    When Remington filed for bankruptcy in 2018, they were about a Billion (with a B) in debt. How they got that far into debt I don't know, but that is a huge hole to climb out of.

    I don't know what the debt load was when Cerberus/Freedom group bought it out (Rem was generating 500 million in revenue and was profitable in 2008), but intentionally or not, they buried Remington.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: oldfart80

    DocRDS

    Knows Nothing
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 21, 2012
    384
    533
    Texas
    Freedom Group/Cerebus have killed quite a few decent Brands and Remington is just the latest.

    Let me take you back to a dark and hidden time. Let's call it "The 1990s" The AWB is in full force, mag limits are a thing, and Clinton is in the White House.

    What was THE rifle to buy? Remington 700. Really had no peer. Model 70 was around (thats WInchester)
    The shotgun to have: Remington 870.
    It was a no brainer--their stuff just worked. I remember watching TNN for shooting shows on Saturday as a "Yute" (ok I was in my 20s) and Reminton Bragged about how their actions were the base for like 10 of the last nation Long Range championships.
    Walk into one of the largest stores in Michigan and it was WALL TO WALL Remington Rifles.

    Hunting Ammo? Rem Green Box.

    How do you F that up?

    related note: You wanted an AR-15? Recommended buy was BUSHMASTER (you can stop laughing now). Armalite was good. Colt was on the outs with the small pin and no M-16 bolt carrier. That was it. That's all we had besides Olympic Arms and no one gave them much thought. "ABC for AR-15"

    Freedom Works got them too.

    DPMS was never a quality brand, but they were the only 308 game before Knights, LMT, Sig (that's a whole nother post on Sig who was up, then down, now up again). They had a huge market and then Remington bought them out.

    Now gone.

    Para Ord--Moved from Canada to Florida. Quality went caput. Now dead. Bought by Remington.
    6.8 SPC (the history of this round is a lesson in FusterCluck)
    AAC
    ...ugh

    These guys have driven so many good products (and yes once, they were GOOD) into the ground it boggles the imagination. It rivals only Colt in the ability to (no pun intended, ok maybe a little pun) shoot themselves in the foot.

    I want them to recover like S&W or Ruger (man those companies were blacklisted for a LONG time).

    Don't get me wrong--I love our choices today (a lot more quality at pretty good prices), but when you watch and see what they had and how they were positioned, its absolutely stupifying how this company got driven into the ground.
     

    357Max

    Gunny Sergeant
    PX Member
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Sep 11, 2019
    750
    881
    Marylandistan
    I was going to list my R700 Classic 300WBY to make room in the safe, but hell now I think I'll just hang onto it.
    Hate that fucker, & yes I can show you were it touched me 🤫
    Might as well start looking for another safe. It was inevitable.
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: Bender

    168BTHPM

    Werepig
    Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Mar 1, 2008
    9,531
    77,859
    Nevada
    This has been a long time coming. I got an auction flyer several weeks ago announcing the auction for their machinery and tools. They are trying to sell it as one lot to satisfy a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, if they can't sell it as a lot they will piece it out.
     

    MarinePMI

    Ban Cat Handler
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jun 3, 2010
    7,019
    8,654
    San Diego, Ca
    Hi,

    Poor management, lack of return on marketing investments, etc etc...
    Think about this for a moment..
    How many National and International exhibitions does Remington participate in during a calendar year?
    Since they have been in business soooo long, does anyone think they actually gain NEW business at these exhibitions?
    They have long been "branded" in the market space so it does not take participating in an exhibition to continue and grow their sales.
    For example....
    Just their typical Shot Show floor space (NOT THE BOOTH) is 100k to 200k+.
    Multiply that by 5 National and International shows a year.
    Then add the cost of graphics per show (That is assuming they keep same booth design/layout).
    Then add the cost of getting 80 personnel to the show, accommodation's, etc etc
    Be willing to bet that in a Calendar year their Exhibition participation budget is from 1.5 to 2million USD.

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    This^^^^^

    As someone that has worked a four booth presence at SHOT Show (actually, five, if you counted Safariland, when we owned them), I can tell you trade show costs are phenomenal. If deals aren't getting signed in the back rooms, trade shows are a negative ROI. It's hard to put tangible metrics to measure tradeshow impacts/effects, but regardless, staffing of, and trade show selection should always be a carefully weighed decision. Remington clearly showed up to many tradeshows because "they had to" to maintain the illusion of being a major industry player. Even as they did very little playing...
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Lapuapalooza

    diverdon

    Constitutionalist, by choice
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Dec 21, 2011
    4,995
    5,071
    WNY
    When they got in bed with Soros it was only a matter of time! He's a fucking parasite!
    I don't think it was a plot to deny us arms. It's just the modus operandi for these big venture capitalists. They buy up companies, merge them, reorganize them, and suck out every penny they can on the way out. Leaving them fucked.

    Yep, there ought to be a law...
     

    myronman3

    deez nuts
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 24, 2017
    2,482
    4,980
    Ft. Benning School for Wayward Boys
    Yep, there ought to be a law...
    a law?

    how about dropping a missile between soros’s eyes. destroying this business is about the smallest bonei have to pick with him.

    i never really have been a remington guy; ever since i witnessed them putting the screws to my dad over a 30-06 he owned. it was one of the old jam-o-matics. it wasnt even 10 years old before it started exhibiting problems.

    the old man didnt have much-he worked hard and scraped enough cash to buy a rifle, and chose that one. part of the reasoning was that it was an established company, and he could trust they built a quality rifle......:ROFLMAO:. he made many phone calls with his hat in his hand looking for a solution(or part i even think was all he needed to repair it). he was told “that is obsolete” and they’d give him $100 off his next remington purchase. he never bought another remington. neither have i, or my brother. or have any of our kids.

    magnify that by how many other people out there they treated like that, over how many years. then add in all the other issues everyone else listed.

    i owned many different brands of firearms; and had issues with more than one brand. i’ve NEVER been treated by any of them, like remington treated my pops. fuck ‘em, and fuck anyone who acts like them.
     
    Last edited:

    Strykervet

    Lanolin Lube 4U
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jun 5, 2011
    5,569
    4,254
    45
    Pierce County, WA
    Freedom Group/Cerebus have killed quite a few decent Brands and Remington is just the latest.

    Let me take you back to a dark and hidden time. Let's call it "The 1990s" The AWB is in full force, mag limits are a thing, and Clinton is in the White House.

    What was THE rifle to buy? Remington 700. Really had no peer. Model 70 was around (thats WInchester)
    The shotgun to have: Remington 870.
    It was a no brainer--their stuff just worked. I remember watching TNN for shooting shows on Saturday as a "Yute" (ok I was in my 20s) and Reminton Bragged about how their actions were the base for like 10 of the last nation Long Range championships.
    Walk into one of the largest stores in Michigan and it was WALL TO WALL Remington Rifles.

    Hunting Ammo? Rem Green Box.

    How do you F that up?

    related note: You wanted an AR-15? Recommended buy was BUSHMASTER (you can stop laughing now). Armalite was good. Colt was on the outs with the small pin and no M-16 bolt carrier. That was it. That's all we had besides Olympic Arms and no one gave them much thought. "ABC for AR-15"

    Freedom Works got them too.

    DPMS was never a quality brand, but they were the only 308 game before Knights, LMT, Sig (that's a whole nother post on Sig who was up, then down, now up again). They had a huge market and then Remington bought them out.

    Now gone.

    Para Ord--Moved from Canada to Florida. Quality went caput. Now dead. Bought by Remington.
    6.8 SPC (the history of this round is a lesson in FusterCluck)
    AAC
    ...ugh

    These guys have driven so many good products (and yes once, they were GOOD) into the ground it boggles the imagination. It rivals only Colt in the ability to (no pun intended, ok maybe a little pun) shoot themselves in the foot.

    I want them to recover like S&W or Ruger (man those companies were blacklisted for a LONG time).

    Don't get me wrong--I love our choices today (a lot more quality at pretty good prices), but when you watch and see what they had and how they were positioned, its absolutely stupifying how this company got driven into the ground.

    Uh, and you forgot they had practically every military contract too including M24, M40, M2013 --and all those are gone now. I'm not sad to see 'em go either, the MRAD is fucking amazing and Remington COULD have done something like that... But figured hey, nothing to lose, let's give 'em a shittier rifle and an AAC can to go with it!

    6.8SPC... Jesus pleezus, how you can look at that fucking thing vs. Grendel and STILL pick 6.8... Yeah, just one flop after another. Grendel literally could have saved lives had it not been greed fucked by Remington, et. al.

    But what ALL these issues have in common? They all stem from NOT listening to the customer. I bet EVERY decision they made came from a board room with a handful of old, out of touch billionaires who are confident they know what you need better than you do.

    I talked to Larue one day. Mark or whoever the fuck he was. I told him what was wrong with his shit. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about. Had a similar conversation with AAC over the 51T --they doubled, no TRIPLED down with the 90T! And REMINGTON bought 'em right after! See how this works...

    Oly literally told the US Army to take a flying fuck over improving gas blocks and handguards, they'd rather go to bat over their shitty designs vs. making it better and having 'em show up at units! I know this because I'm they guy they told to fuck off. It's funny, I still remember the ad for their FIRSH handguards...

    "The best thing I like about my FIRSH handguard is that it doesn't whistle when I HALO (High Altitude, Low Opening parachute jump)" --SF operator Shit, that does it, fuck Knights because it might whistle if I ever jump at 30,000 feet.

    Wow, just wow. Because lowly DMR operator here didn't HALO but did test the goddamn things and wasn't impressed at all. I sent a guy to blow one up for me and he comes back after half a can of ammo saying the gas block went downrange. We never tested any Oly shit to true material failure, it always failed by design first.

    Knights sent us 3 free FF rails when they came out. I still have the one they sent me, I put it on a Beowulf AA sent me around the same time to test out (which due to us demo'ing for War College, led to a CG contract for 'em). Anyway, show Oly Knights part and ask if they can do something similar without violating patents. Nope, FIRSH is better by design. What, an extra screw? Key it so it doesn't rotate? Fuck off grunt, what do you know?

    A shame, literally next exit from one of the largest infantry installations in the world... And can't turn a buck selling rifles when they walk in your door asking for 'em.

    PS, if two guys in uniform walk into your store with army AMEX, you don't tell them what their job is. You acquiesce.
     

    BytorJr

    Major Hide Member
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 28, 2018
    1,913
    1,854
    Only Remington ammo I ever thought was actually good was their shotgun shells back in the 80's and 90s. Far better in the 80's than anything Federal could produce. Still not a Federal fan for shotgun.

    Never shot a V3 either, but it's supposedly a great shotgun. So for shotgun stuff, Remington seems pretty good: 870, 1100, V3. Pistols have been a complete failure. Rifles - exclude the 700 and what do you have that anybody could name (740/742 from the 60s, 70s)? Okay, one exception, the Speedmaster/Fieldmaster 22's - again from the 60's. I think the only new product design they have gotten right in the last 20 years (to my memory) is the V3.
     

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    13,582
    17,893
    Lawsuits
    Unions
    RP9 Pistols
    R51 Pistols
    Ho Hum AR's
    Ruger, Howa, Tikka, Bergara, and the rise of "production class" customs eating your lunch in the bolt action segment
    Hornady

    Not to mention they have zero presence in the premium shotgun market and plenty of competition in the mid priced market.
     

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    13,582
    17,893
    Only Remington ammo I ever thought was actually good was their shotgun shells back in the 80's and 90s. Far better in the 80's than anything Federal could produce. Still not a Federal fan for shotgun.

    Never shot a V3 either, but it's supposedly a great shotgun. I think the only new product design they have gotten right in the last 20 years (to my memory) is the V3.
    Agree. When I started in skeet and sporting clays in the late 90s it was obvious that Remington STS cartridges were superior to anything else. To this day they are some of the best shotgun shells you can buy at any price.

    The Versmax and V3 were successes in the market and are very good guns. The V3 is impressive.
     

    acudaowner

    Old Salt
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Dec 26, 2018
    4,330
    2,971
    I feel for the workers but when a company is run that poorly sometimes it's better off letting them go , The equipment would be a nice pick up if you could afford it start your own ammo plant or gun company, just not in New York its government is anti business and defiantly not 2a friendly . maybe a snipers hide made gun frame barrel and action trigger and bullets hint hint . I am sure the ceo and top exutives at the company did really well for themselves while running the company into the ground
     
    Last edited:

    Baron23

    Check 6
    PX Member
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Mar 19, 2020
    770
    607
    68
    Maryland
    Agree. When I started in skeet and sporting clays in the late 90s it was obvious that Remington STS cartridges were superior to anything else. To this day they are some of the best shotgun shells you can buy at any price.

    The Versmax and V3 were successes in the market and are very good guns. The V3 is impressive.
    STS are, IMO, the best hull to reload in 12 and 20. 28 and 410 I find AA’s to be more durable.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: daylate

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    13,582
    17,893
    STS are, IMO, the best hull to reload in 12 and 20. 28 and 410 I find AA’s to be more durable.

    I should have qualified by saying all I've ever owned are 12 gauges. Down to two, my old 870 Express that's killed a truckload of ducks and a 686 Sporting.

    Wait I forgot about the 1949 Ithaca Model 37 16 gauge I sold and now regret.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: Baron23

    Redmanss

    8541
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 24, 2010
    6,573
    7,821
    Northeast Wyoming
    Remington had nothing to do with the M40xx any more than it has to do with anyone else here picking up bare receiver and sending it off to the smith to get built into a rifle. The first thing the RTE/PWS section did was unfuck everything about the R700 action.

    Remington deserves this, but their workers do not. I hope they find new work soon, as far away from big green as they can get.
     

    357Max

    Gunny Sergeant
    PX Member
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Sep 11, 2019
    750
    881
    Marylandistan
    And Vista owns Federal Premium ammo, CCI, and Bushnell.

    Hell they own all these.
    1601269715249.png

    Hope they don't throttle production to keep prices high after Trump wins!
     
    Last edited:

    BytorJr

    Major Hide Member
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 28, 2018
    1,913
    1,854
    It will be interesting if Sierra just uses the Barnes facilities to increase production or if they'll keep the Barnes bullets. I suspect probably a bit of both. Not sure I like Vista getting Remington Ammo, but at least it didn't get scuttled. Competition is good and sadly this has decreased it on the "consumables" side.
     

    TacticalDillhole

    Shiner of shoes
    Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Jun 26, 2012
    6,216
    7,019
    N. Carolina
    It will be interesting if Sierra just uses the Barnes facilities to increase production or if they'll keep the Barnes bullets. I suspect probably a bit of both. Not sure I like Vista getting Remington Ammo, but at least it didn't get scuttled. Competition is good and sadly this has decreased it on the "consumables" side.
    I disagree. This is Remington opportunity to fix what’s left and focus on what made them big green in the first place. They got rid of the distractions. Now fix the quality or just die altogether. PSA and vista are doing big things. Might be worse might be better time will tell. Why anyone would want bushmaster is beyond me. Sierra I’d imagine will keep some and dump some and increase production
     

    BytorJr

    Major Hide Member
    PX Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 28, 2018
    1,913
    1,854
    Not disagreeing that the opportunity to fix their process exists; which in and of itself MAY reduce cost. However, competition is good and generally lowers cost and increases quality. That said, only Olin would have been the other American company to likely bid.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
    Commercial Supporter
    PX Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2017
    6,152
    20,500
    Enon Louisiana
    hoplitearms.com
    Hi,

    So ATK dumps Savage shortly ago and now is taking on Remington Ammo. For them it is another round of tax free "spin offs" so IMO I would not hold my breathe for quality to increase.

    Remington Arms clears everything off their plate in attempts to get back into the swing of things without robbing Peter to pay Paul.
    I would like to see Remington Arms "recreate" themselves with significantly fewer products but be all new era products. The market is flooded with cheap'ish products, the market has several top dollar products but could use a BIG factory presence in the middle road products.

    Sincerely,
    Theis